Forerunner

Resetufologist
The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
15,037
www.msnbc.com

Opinion | "Top Gun: Maverick" is the most insidious movie at the Oscars

Against canonizing literal military propaganda.

But "Top Gun" is as insidious as it is entertaining. It does not merely revive a forgotten human-centered spectacle; it also beckons for a return to accepting the American war machine as a beacon of virtue and excitement. It's a poisonous kind of nostalgia, one that smuggles love of endless war into a celebration of live action.

"Top Gun" is literal propaganda: In exchange for access to military aircraft, the producers of the movie agreed to allow the Defense Department to include its own "key talking points" in the script. Perhaps equally important, the script had to be written in a manner that flatters the military in order to secure the buy-in of the Pentagon. (Even then, defense officials requested "revisions" to the characters and their actions.) This collaboration in jingoism is evident throughout the script. The minor rebellions of Pete "Maverick" Mitchell, played by Cruise, against his higher-ups in the military are minor diversions from his obedience to the logic of empire. It should be no surprise that just like with the first "Top Gun" movie, released in 1986, the military viewed the sequel as a promising recruitment tool, and ran U.S. Air Force ads before showings of the movie with imperialistic lines like "the entire sky belongs to us." While the first movie helped rehab the military's poor reputation in the wake of the Vietnam War, this one diverts from the failed war on terror, and comes as defense officials eye the rise of China.

I don't object to anyone's enjoyment of the film, but I hope it tanks at the Oscars. It's possible to make thrilling action without so brazenly priming the public for warfare.

In the main mission of the film, Maverick is asked to oversee the bombardment of a "secret uranium enrichment site under rogue state control." Just like in the first "Top Gun," the enemy is never identified as a specific country or organization, but the description of the mission hints at one real-life scenario: Iran's nuclear program. Maverick is disturbed by the fact that his commander wants him to train a group to go on what's likely to be a suicide mission, and takes unilateral action to make the mission at least somewhat more survivable. But crucially, the rebellious Maverick never questions the value of the mission itself, which could easily be an opening salvo of a major war.

The subtext of bombing a nuclear enrichment site, which could very well be in Iran, is a striking choice that betrays a bellicose worldview. It revives the neoconservative conception of preventive warfare — the idea of using force to eliminate threats to American power before they can emerge. (The enemy country presumably lacks nuclear bombs, but the U.S. is willing to intervene militarily in order to ensure it can't obtain them.) It's a foreign policy paradigm that gives the U.S. license to ignore small things like "national sovereignty." It's also a particularly loaded scenario to portray at a time when, in the real world, the Iran nuclear deal is hanging by a thread and hawks are eager to scrap diplomatic efforts and green light bombardment of the country.

"Don't think, just do," Maverick constantly counsels his protégé Bradley "Rooster" Bradshaw, underscoring the movie's plea for the audience to be mindless about combat. Maverick means to refer to the value of a pilot's instinct, but he's also asking his students to suspend their ability to think critically about the purpose of the institution they're in. (The mantra does lead Rooster to defy orders based on his moral instincts, but again, it does not jeopardize the mission.) More broadly, "Don't think, just do" is also a fitting slogan for the U.S. foreign policy establishment — consistently eager to intervene in other countries without thinking carefully about whether it's right or if it will be effective.

The first "Top Gun" movie was also produced in close consultation with the Pentagon, whose leaders correctly predicted that the movie would lead to a surge in recruitment numbers and improve the image of the military. While it's unclear so far what effect the new movie has had on recruitment, early indications are that even trailers for the new movie produced increased interest in enlisting in the military. As every branch of the military faces recruitment problems, a beloved movie that makes war look thrilling and bloodless could be a solution.

Back in 1990, four years after the first "Top Gun" came out, Playboy magazine grilled Cruise by challenging him on whether the original "Top Gun" movie was dangerous war propaganda. Playboy's interviewer described the movie as "war by Nintendo game and a paean to blind patriotism." Cruise defended the movie as a "an amusement park ride, a fun film with a PG-13 rating that was not supposed to be reality." But he also seemed to acknowledge that there were still dangers to using a war movie as a form of mindless entertainment. He continued: "That's why I didn't go on and make Top Gun II and III and IV and V. That would have been irresponsible."
 

CupOfDoom

Member
Dec 17, 2017
3,349
It should be treated as straight up propaganda for the us military.

I don't think its "insidious" though. If you have any degree of media literacy, it is very clear where the movie's politics lie. There is no subtlety.
 
Oct 26, 2017
17,539
nah that movie did wonders for theaters and blockbusters that aren't formulaic superhero movies, it deserves the nom
 

ChuckXL

Banned
May 3, 2018
2,448
Calling it insidious is a bit of a stretch. There's nothing subtle about it. And if you don't know you're getting a military movie before watching it, that's kinda on you? It's not stealthy propaganda.
 

Karateka

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,940
Part of me wants to assert that an award should be based on the technical merit of the film and not on whatever political view it holds but I doubt those with super conservative views would say the same about progressive movies which have won awards like moonlight
 

captmcblack

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,131
Like yeah, but also...meh. This isn't even a shocking or unique opinion for this op-ed writer specifically, so it's not even a spicy take.

If this movie gets any hardware, it won't be because of its message.
 

Sec0nd

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
6,160
Is it insidious? No, not really. Is it propoganda? Sure. At some point any kind of war related movie is propoganda though, even if it's incredibly anti-war. I know I was super into the military at a young age thanks to the multitude of war related movies.

I'm fine for it not winning any awards for being a promotional piece of work for the military. But it's a damn fine movie and there is nothing weird or insidious it's doing.
 

Hrodulf

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,385
We had a thread where the OP was metaphorically laughed out of the room for calling the movie propaganda, so I imagine this will go about as well as that.
 

Bing147

Member
Jun 13, 2018
3,742
Part of me wants to assert that an award should be based on the technical merit of the film and not on whatever political view it holds but I doubt those with super conservative views would say the same about progressive movies which have won awards like moonlight

Movies aren't "technical" things at their core, they're art. If you're talking about awarding the cinematography, or the art direction maybe there's an argument for this, but when talking about a movie as a whole, its political views/messaging are a fundamental part of what the movie is.
 

Deleted member 4614

Oct 25, 2017
6,345
This type of trolling does not happen in, say, Call of Duty threads even though they're completely ridiculous military propaganda.

It's a sad fact of American society that the military is part of a duopoly on thrills (the other partner being the extreme sports and outdoors industry).

So if you want excitement in your life but don't understand much about the long term implications of joining it can be really appealing.
 

Jarmel

The Jackrabbit Always Wins
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,757
New York
Well it's not exactly a subtle movie. Is it propaganda to a degree? Sure as it depicts the military in a positive light. That said, that's not all of the movie and really the war/military stuff is more of the backdrop for the character aspects.

Also this sort of shit happens for all sorts of movies and industries. The MCU has ton of feedback from the US military and Lockheed.
 

bishopp135

Member
Oct 29, 2017
988
Because EEAO became the undisputed frontrunner this type of article was rare this Oscar season. If Top Gun was the favorite we would have months of discussion about the military complex and scientology.
 

Karateka

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,940
Movies aren't "technical" things at their core, they're art. If you're talking about awarding the cinematography, or the art direction maybe there's an argument for this, but when talking about a movie as a whole, its political views/messaging are a fundamental part of what the movie is.
Isn't all art like at least 90% technique?

To elaborate, clearly it doesn't matter if I completely understand the human existence and the meaning of life when painting a picture if the best I can do is a stickman.
 

Speevy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
19,491
It is the most non-specific, least combative movie about the military ever made.
 
Jul 18, 2018
5,929
I hated their approach on VFX. By marketing everything as practical effect and then pulled a 1080 for oscar VFX bait
 

RedMercury

Blue Venus
Member
Dec 24, 2017
17,794
I remember there was someone who made a thread saying pretty much this exact same thing and they got shit on relentlessly here for that opinion
I don't think its "insidious" though. If you have any degree of media literacy, it is very clear where the movie's politics lie. There is no subtlety.
I think for what it's worth there is a huge degree of media illiteracy, I would be comfortable at least for the US saying it's the majority of people
 

Saucycarpdog

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,756
It's military propaganda straight up.

But so is Call of Duty and anything by Tom Clancy.

Calling it "insidious" is a stretch when so much media does it.
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,628
This movie is catnip for 60 year old property owners in the Midwest who complain about homeless people in the streets
 

cognizant

Member
Dec 19, 2017
13,757
Amusing considering how inoffensive the movie is to appeal to every demographic. It's extremely tame. For a military movie it's lacking a lot of the usual tropes of the genre and vocabulary, I don't think anyone even says "The United States" at all in the movie? It's weirdly structured more like a sports movie.

Sure it's a blatant recruitment tool for the air force, just like the original movie was, but I think the word 'insidious' might be more apt when writing about something like Michael Bay's Transformers franchise to be honest.
 

higemaru

Member
Nov 30, 2017
4,150
I mean, sure, but like, The Hurt Locker won Best Picture in 2009 so let's not go about this like it's not part and parcel of the Oscars. It's the American film industry's biggest award show, no duh the war machine is gonna get some nods
 

ZeroX

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,266
Speed Force
That both this and Avatar 2 are up for best picture is laughable.
Nah it's a fantastic movie

I remember there was someone who made a thread saying pretty much this exact same thing and they got shit on relentlessly here for that opinion
Wasn't it that they hadn't actually seen the movie and were just jumping to conclusions

The movie isn't exactly super propaganda ra ra ra let's go America, it shows the military as being willing to make the wrong call and sacrifice lives until they were proven wrong by cool Tom Cruise and even then they were hesitant. The opening sequence with the Admiral wasn't exactly a glowing representation either. You can call it inherently propaganda but it's probably more interested in making Maverick appealing than the military.
 

Bor Gullet

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,401
Well it's not exactly a subtle movie. Is it propaganda to a degree? Sure as it depicts the military in a positive light. That said, that's not all of the movie and really the war/military stuff is more of the backdrop for the character aspects.

Also this sort of shit happens for all sorts of movies and industries. The MCU has ton of feedback from the US military and Lockheed.

Captain Marvel especially.
 

El-Suave

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,832
That propaganda talk was there for the first movie. All this dude adds is the culture war bullshit, which is exactly that.
 

Jarmel

The Jackrabbit Always Wins
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,757
New York
This was the other thread that people in this thread keep bringing up:
www.resetera.com

Top Gun: Maverick is a military propaganda movie. I fell for it.

Woah there. Now that's a ballsy title. Originally when I watched Top Gun: Maverick, I thought it was a solid movie that had at least did not glorify the trauma of the United States Military complex and had a somewhat fantastical mission statement that at least gives it a lot more heart and...

Big difference is the OP was obsessed with attaching the movie/villains to Iran and treating it as a piece of fascist propaganda.

Captain Marvel especially.
I was thinking Iron Man. Lockheed is attached to that one in particular.
 

valuv

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,619
What kind of moron doesn't see Top Gun as obvious propaganda? Writing this article suggests that their readers have no intellect and it's highly condescending to their audience to assume even a child couldn't see what's happening here.
 

Deleted member 171

Oct 25, 2017
19,888
"Don't think, just do," Maverick constantly counsels his protégé Bradley "Rooster" Bradshaw, underscoring the movie's plea for the audience to be mindless about combat. Maverick means to refer to the value of a pilot's instinct, but he's also asking his students to suspend their ability to think critically about the purpose of the institution they're in.

....

MAYBE this would have a point if any of the pilots had any qualms about being a soldier and what it entails. Happy they cracked the hidden code on Top Gun being pro-military.
 

FF Seraphim

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,955
Tokyo
Its Top Gun. I don't even believe they tried to hide their ties of having the military help with the movie. Everyone going into it knew. How could you not? It was so in your face about it.
 

B-Dubs

That's some catch, that catch-22
General Manager
Oct 25, 2017
33,459
I remember there was someone who made a thread saying pretty much this exact same thing and they got shit on relentlessly here for that opinion

I think for what it's worth there is a huge degree of media illiteracy, I would be comfortable at least for the US saying it's the majority of people
They went way further than this OPed does lol
 

Karsha

Member
May 1, 2020
2,582
Propaganda in what sense? The enemy is never mentioned and the good guys technology sucks, they aren't superior to the enemy in any way, in fact not even the young pilots are, this is just about Tom Cruise's arc which was established by the first one that was a very good pilot even though he went some traumatic episodes. It closes it's arc.
By this kind of logic, every kind of war movie ever made is propaganda
 

Prinz Eugn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,393
Shit, next thing they'll be saying is All Quiet on the Western Front has some vague anti-war undertones.