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FrostweaveBandage

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Sep 27, 2019
6,785
As someone who's been desperate for VP3 for over a decade, the only way they choose to bring the franchise back is as yet another cookie-cutter mashfest action game that completely betrays every single element of what made Valkyrie Profile's gameplay special in the first place.

At that point, why even fucking bother bringing the franchise back? Why waste everyone's time?
Let's be frank. If the only good part of the series was the combat, it shouldn't have been brought back, regardless of what battle system it uses now.
 

Chumunga64

Member
Jun 22, 2018
14,347
Yo there's hunting in this game? Sweet

Hunting monsters has been some of the most fun part of later final fantasy games lirk XII and XV

Someone should make a game just about hunting monsters. I'd play this hypothetical "monster hunter" game
 

BBboy20

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,220
As someone who's been desperate for VP3 for over a decade, the only way they choose to bring the franchise back is as yet another cookie-cutter mashfest action game that completely betrays every single element of what made Valkyrie Profile's gameplay special in the first place.

At that point, why even fucking bother bringing the franchise back? Why waste everyone's time?
giphy.gif


Ah-hem. Well, it could turn out to be a button masher, ti's just that, at the least, it's not classified as Profile 3 and it does look mechanically component.
 

Quinton

Specialist at TheGamer / Reviewer at RPG Site
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
17,345
Midgar, With Love

Iron_Maw

Banned
Nov 4, 2021
2,378
The information on AI party members was exactly how I expected it to be and should ally the fears anyome thinking the game was just going to be Clive talking to himself throughout his entire journey except in towns or story cut-scenes. Temparay party members that come and go isn't new to FF. If anything makes me thing its gonna be like FFII. Anyone hoping for full controllable party with kind of battles system we saw in the trailers was fooling themselves though.

I just want this to bury this discussion once for all however.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
116,194
There's still Yakuza, Persona, Dragon Quest and Xenoblade although I suspect you're not a fan of the latter 3 lol

I'm not a fan of them personally but you do get an endless stream of Pokemon games too

Dragon Quest is not my thing. I realize it's like JRPG comfort food for a lot of people, particularly in Japan for whom DQ is the RPG series, but for someone like me that grew up on FF, Suikoden, Chrono Trigger, Valkyrie Profile and Breath of Fire, the complete lack of any narrative or mechanical ambition or complexity at work in DQ is really hard to push through. The games really do feel so simplistic that they put me to sleep.

Persona was my bag before they went the whole "every game is 100 hours of mediocre visual novel stuff you need to play with a guide sewn to your right arm to get the most out of" route and then started recycling the exact same character tropes over and over again for the Social Links in each installment. And Hashino being a raging homophobe/transphobe alienated me even further. If we got a Persona game closer in structure to P1 or the P2s, with no Hashino, I'd be interested, but that's about it. I haven't finished a single one of the Social Link era games and I've bought all three of them (some twice).

As for Yakuza, we'll see what happens with Yakuza 8, now that the leadership at RGG Studio has changed quite markedly, who knows what the next mainline game is gonna be like. Nagoshi's original plans for the series may have left with him.

Let's be frank. If the only good part of the series was the combat, it shouldn't have been brought back, regardless of what battle system it uses now.

I wasn't just talking about the combat. One of the biggest, coolest elements of Valkyrie Profile was never knowing what kind of tragic story you'd be engaging with next, and what kind of party member you'd get out of it. The new game pretty clearly seems to be completely wasting the narrative and gameplay conceit of gathering Einherjar as well by turning them into nothing more than "stands" you summon to do a single attack while you mash Square six million times.

Like why even bother bringing such a specific niche franchise back if you're going to do nothing interesting with it? It feels weirdly mean-spirited.
 

Pancracio17

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
18,888
Correct me if im wrong, but it sounds like FFXVI is structured a bit like The Witcher 3, no? Where the game divides areas of the game into different regions.
 
Apr 9, 2018
1,404
ERA is obsessed with party members, wow

Everything Yoshi-P says about the game indicates this is gonna be an absolutely amazing experience
It's nuts isn't it, such an odd thing to get hung up on. At least try it before you dislike it. I don't control Sully or Elena(I know technically that one section on the ski) in Uncharted but I still get an amazing sense of camaraderie with them.

Just a usual case of I want something brand new but also exactly the same as before please thanks 🤦‍♂️

Can't wait for this, I appreciate they're not going near open world design, XVs world felt so small by the end, it really broke the illusion
 

Spehornoob

Member
Nov 15, 2017
8,967
Yo there's hunting in this game? Sweet

Hunting monsters has been some of the most fun part of later final fantasy games lirk XII and XV

Someone should make a game just about hunting monsters. I'd play this hypothetical "monster hunter" game
Final Fantasy Explorers on the 3DS is like a chibi Monster Hunter-ish take on Final Fantasy.

 

Spehornoob

Member
Nov 15, 2017
8,967
Correct me if im wrong, but it sounds like FFXVI is structured a bit like The Witcher 3, no? Where the game divides areas of the game into different regions.
Yeah, though I wouldn't expect quite the wealth or depth of side content. There will be side content but everything is pointing toward the main scenario being the primary focus here.

I haven't played much of The Witcher 3, so I'm only going by reputation, but the vibes I'm getting from this game are : Final Fantasy + DMC + God of War 2018 + The Witcher 3
 

J-Skee

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,125
I mean technically he aged badly because he's an Unsent, who we know do age but in a non healthy kind of way
I either completely forgot about that or missed that entirely. I would assume that he just wouldn't age at all, but you're right, he looks much younger when he's initially killed.
 

BlueManifest

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,345
What's the difference between open zone and open world other than a few extra loading screens
 

Neutron

Member
Jun 2, 2022
2,797
What's the difference between open zone and open world other than a few extra loading screens

What could be called "implied travel." In a purely sandbox open world, because there are no load screens or interruptions, everything is 1:1.

That's why FFXV's world felt (to me, at least) like you were just driving around the outskirts of Lucis rather than a full world. In FFXII or FFXIV, there is implied distance that is not totally covered by every inch of land that you walk on. This gives the opportunity to "jump" to very different landscapes and include more variety as the party criss-crosses across the world.
 

sappyday

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
2,821
What could be called "implied travel." In a purely sandbox open world, because there are no load screens or interruptions, everything is 1:1.

That's why FFXV's world felt (to me, at least) like you were just driving around the outskirts of Lucis rather than a full world. In FFXII or FFXIV, there is implied distance that is not totally covered by every inch of land that you walk on. This gives the opportunity to "jump" to very different landscapes and include more variety as the party criss-crosses across the world.
In a perfect world I'm sure there would have been 3 major areas for XV. One surrounding Lucis (which we got), one surrounding Tenebrea (we get a train instead with a few pit stops), and one surrounding Niflheim (a corridor chapter). Then at the end we probably would have gotten the first area again but in the end state. XV always felt like 1/3 of a game and we all know why. Hopefully XVI redeems it.
 

Soriku

Member
Nov 12, 2017
6,913
Consulting with KH team on a single playable member-based battles makes sense.

Also interesting that the story takes places across 3 time periods. I thought it would just been teens and 20s.
 

jett

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,674
how is it a mistake? It doesn't play like ff7r, itsa different game. Maybe it works better like this we don't know really
The description reminds me of FFXV, which I don't care for. Whether the combat as-is is actually any good remains to be seen.

Personally I genuinely thought the way FF7R handled combat was not only flat out fantastic but should be a blueprint for the franchise even.
 

BlueManifest

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,345
What could be called "implied travel." In a purely sandbox open world, because there are no load screens or interruptions, everything is 1:1.

That's why FFXV's world felt (to me, at least) like you were just driving around the outskirts of Lucis rather than a full world. In FFXII or FFXIV, there is implied distance that is not totally covered by every inch of land that you walk on. This gives the opportunity to "jump" to very different landscapes and include more variety as the party criss-crosses across the world.
Yea I feel like both are open though and you can still eventually go every where you want to just with some loading screens

I consider the old FFs open worlds too that just aren't open from the beginning and they become more open as you progress until eventually you can go every where you want

Now if ff16 doesn't allow you to go back to zones you have already been to then that wouldn't be open that would be open linear or wide linear like last of us 2 where you can explore wide open areas but can't go back to them after you progress
 
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Gaia Lanzer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,678
game.watch.impress.co.jp

「ファイナルファンタジーXVI」吉田直樹プロデューサーインタビュー 振り切る代わりに超濃厚な体験を。吉田組がフルパワーで作るワンコンセプトの「FF」

 スクウェア・エニックスから2023年夏に発売予定のプレイステーション 5「ファイナルファンタジーXVI」(以下、「FFXVI」)。先日公開された第二弾トレーラーでは「召喚獣大戦」というワードも飛び出し、大きな話題を呼んだ。

Can someone who is fluent in Japanese please transcribe this? Google translate is doing a terrible job.

Some interesting tidbits:
- action and story modes. Accessories that make the game easier (e.g. slowing down frames before an enemy attack lands), selecting story mode automatically puts them on whereas in action mode they are unequipped but sitting in the inventory. Also mentions a trigger that auto dodges, likely tied to an accessory as well

- Soken is not the only composer

- Photo mode
Wouldn't doubt we get something from Uematsu. He's done something for a majority of the FFs he wasn't a part of (with the exception of FFXIII). For FFXV, he did some music for Comrades and it was pretty good:

www.youtube.com

Choosing Hope

Provided to YouTube by NexTone Inc.Choosing Hope · Nobuo Uematsu · DAGMUSIC · Nobuo Uematsu · Tsutomu NaritaFINAL FANTASY XV Original Soundtrack Volume 2【1/2...

www.youtube.com

A Clash of Swords

Provided to YouTube by NexTone Inc.A Clash of Swords · Nobuo Uematsu · Nobuo Uematsu · Tsutomu NaritaFINAL FANTASY XV Original Soundtrack Volume 2【1/2】Releas...

In other words, Final Fantasy is not Dragon Quest and SQE wants the brand to compete with the current big games from the west.
Didn't he say that choosing to go full-on medieval was one of the responses to that, because modern single-player FF heavy leans towards more futuristic/sci-fi settings and that (FFXIII, FFXV, FFVIIR) resulting in a "samey" look for the series? He wants to tip the series back to show that FF can be more than just ONE setting/look or the other. It's not saying the more modern/futuristic FFs are bad, but there should be a balance and variety between installments to spice things up a bit instead of just leaning towards one side for multiple installments, then the other side for multiple installments.

No, definitely not just you. I mean, the trailers were hype and I'm a huge XIV fan but man... I already caught my first FF Tactics inspiration in FFXVI!

FV1A_sjWQAAcfx8


Totally reminds me of:
final-fantasy-tactics-the-war-of-the-lions.fandom.com

Goug Machine City

A mining town where mechanical weapons are crafted using techniques passed down from antiquity. —Description They say the ruins of a lost civilization lie buried beneath the streets of Goug, the Goug Machine City. Relics from the age of Saint Ajora, when airships numerous beyond counting filled...
So like FFI and FFV?

Man, Yoshi needs to become FF's series creative director or supervisor as a whole. From the interview he definitely "gets it".
Isn't Kitase the head of the FF series?
 

PantherLotus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,900
The implied travel conversation should be mentioning FFX as one that really got it right. At times it felt like corridors / on rails, but mostly it was an excellent implementation that gave the game a global feeling mentioned in these interviews.
 
Summary of Famitsu's interview

Fraxin

Member
Oct 28, 2017
864
Found a reddit post with a summary of Famitsu's interview.

Reddit

In addition to the info we know from other news outlets this includes more info in regards to the story and development of the game.
 

BlueManifest

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,345
The implied travel conversation should be mentioning FFX as one that really got it right. At times it felt like corridors / on rails, but mostly it was an excellent implementation that gave the game a global feeling mentioned in these interviews.
Yea like you can still go back to places you have already been later on to find secrets or things you missed, or things you couldn't even access the first time you were there

I define open by being able to go back to places you have already been, not by loading screens or no loading screens
 

PantherLotus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,900
Yea like you can still go back to places you have already been later on to find secrets or things you missed, or things you couldn't even access the first time you were there

I define open by being able to go back to places you have already been, not by loading screens or no loading screens
Right, however you define it the point is that it's possible to cordon off parts of the world and still give it an open feeling.

What's interesting to me is the discrepancy in these interviews talking about kids growing up with GTA to defend going away from turn based but not acknowledging how a truly open world goes hand in hand with that play style.
 

Valcrist

Tic-Tac-Toe Champion
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,732
  1. Actual development started around November 2015.

the fuck
They started off with a handful of people forming a concept and then grew the team gradually. It took a long time to get things going and it was carefully planned before full development started.
 

BlueManifest

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,345
That was just a few people figuring out ideas for the game. Full development didn't start until years later.
Doesn't matter when full dev starts the early planning stages are part of the process, this is a 8 year project

Ff games went from 2-3 year projects to 8 years

I would be happy for them to scale back and release new ones more often, i like the old ones just as much as these and I woudlnt have to wait 8 years
 
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Teiresias

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,244
Yea like you can still go back to places you have already been later on to find secrets or things you missed, or things you couldn't even access the first time you were there

I define open by being able to go back to places you have already been, not by loading screens or no loading screens

I felt like FFX zones were a bit too small to be analogous to what they're implying. I hope it's more the size of Witcher 3 or the Xenoblade games.
 

NediarPT88

Member
Oct 29, 2017
15,214
4Gamer makes it sound a bit different than Famitsu when it comes to the 4 areas:

4Gamer:.
Is it correct to say that the progression of the game will be linear like FFXIII, rather than free exploration like FFXV?

Mr. Yoshida:
Yes. The game is more like a super high-speed roller coaster. However, it is not the case that all the fields are small, and about four of them are quite large. In the fields, there are subquests that help you learn more about the world, "mob hunts" in which you are asked to defeat hidden boss-like monsters, and crafting of weapons and armor by procuring materials from the monsters.

Reading Famitsu I was imagining something like 4 White Orchard (Witcher 3) areas, but I don't think that's the right idea.

Maybe it's more like FFXIII with 4 Gran Pulse areas instead?
 

Fraxin

Member
Oct 28, 2017
864
  1. Actual development started around November 2015.

the fuck

Exactly the line below it states they were 3 members excluding Yoshi-P at that time.

That's a ton of hype information.

Yeah, interesting that Sakaguchi still has in mind that FF is about taking a new challenge.

I think Sakaguchi gave this same advice to all who asked him what makes a FF game yet some people in the fanbase just outright claim what is FF and what is not.
 

Phendrift

Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,357
"To bring a story that feels like it spans an entire globe and beyond, we decided to avoid an open world design that limits us to a single open world space, and instead focus on an independent area-based game design that can give players a better feel of a truly "global" scale," he explains.

HE GETS IT!!!!
 

Menchi

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,154
UK
It's nuts isn't it, such an odd thing to get hung up on. At least try it before you dislike it. I don't control Sully or Elena(I know technically that one section on the ski) in Uncharted but I still get an amazing sense of camaraderie with them.

Just a usual case of I want something brand new but also exactly the same as before please thanks 🤦‍♂️

Can't wait for this, I appreciate they're not going near open world design, XVs world felt so small by the end, it really broke the illusion

Or, you know, people enjoy party members they can control, rather than relying on an AI to make decisions.

Uncharted is an incredibly poor comparison to use considering y'know, it isn't an RPG, nor remotely similar in any way at all.

It's not a narrative reason for wanting control of party members, but a gameplay one. Many people enjoy using each member to get a variety of different play styles, abilities and strategies. Locking you to a single character reduces player agency and effectively locks strategy to what your single character can do, relying on AI to do the rest. It's somewhat acceptable if there is some sort of gambit system, but outright AI, just sucks, to be frank

It's a strange decision considering they have an excellent approach to this in one of their most recent games already (FFVII:Remake) which no doubt they'll be using going forward too
 

BlueManifest

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,345
4Gamer makes it sound a bit different than Famitsu when it comes to the 4 areas:



Reading Famitsu I was imagining something like 4 White Orchard (Witcher 3) areas, but I don't think that's the right idea.

Maybe it's more like FFXIII with 4 Gran Pulse areas instead?
Why does he say yes it's like 13, then what he describes right after that is nothing like 13
 

FrostweaveBandage

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Sep 27, 2019
6,785
The description reminds me of FFXV, which I don't care for. Whether the combat as-is is actually any good remains to be seen.

Personally I genuinely thought the way FF7R handled combat was not only flat out fantastic but should be a blueprint for the franchise even.
XV's combat went through so many paradigm changes (not a FFXIII reference, surprisingly) that what they ended up with was very barebones and simplistic. I enjoyed it for what it was, but it was a lot of flash in the end without a lot of substance. No wonder Yoshida commented that SE just isn't good at action combat.
 

Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,811
The description reminds me of FFXV, which I don't care for. Whether the combat as-is is actually any good remains to be seen.

Personally I genuinely thought the way FF7R handled combat was not only flat out fantastic but should be a blueprint for the franchise even.
This franchise doesn't have a blueprint, it stopped having one besides reoccuring spells and people and it being an rpg , like a long time ago. I enjoy ff7r a great deal, it a really fun and cool way to do combat. But I can't say this reminds me of ffxv to me at all. If anything, this feels like dragon age, but with less npc control and dmc combat.
 

Chasing

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
10,785
Found a reddit post with a summary of Famitsu's interview.

Reddit

In addition to the info we know from other news outlets this includes more info in regards to the story and development of the game.

The famitsu article highlights one interesting point I think is fairly contentious with the ethos of open world game design. That is, usually in open world games, the story serves the game, players are not beholden to it and the world is at the forefront for players to play within. A principle oft repeated, most recently by Todd and co. with Starfield.

Whereas Yoshida here is saying that the story through-line experience is the core of this game and what he wants/intends for players to experience and complete, which is why he's gone with open areas for levels, and with side activities to mostly flesh it out, but which instead are the stuff players are not beholden to.

I obviously prefer this as a person who enjoys a directed story and gameplay experience, but it's interesting to see how they've approach this.
 

NediarPT88

Member
Oct 29, 2017
15,214
This is what I wanted to hear.

--A bit of a detail, but in battle, there was a thin gauge displayed below the enemy's HP gauge, and when it ran out, the enemy would stumble and go down. What is this system?

Yoshida: This gauge is used to stun or take down the enemy. If you want to hit the maximum firepower combo you have created, it is easier to aim for the enemy's takedown. Some of Clive's attacks reduce the gauge by a large amount, while others deal a large amount of damage to the HP. It is also possible to decide to save your summoner action to match the takedown. In this way, this battle is designed so that the more you play the game, the more stylish you will become.

From Dengeki interview.

I loved this part in VII Remake, where different skills excel at certain aspects (putting the enemy in pressured state, building stagger, increasing stagger multiplier, etc).
 

trashbandit

Member
Dec 19, 2019
3,910
Gotta say, I'm relieved they didn't go for an open world just because that's the default for most AAA games nowadays. Too many games seem to commit to an open world before pinning down why it's necessary, and end up having to pad it out with stuff to do. I'm sure 16 will have side content, but it's good to know it probably won't take the form of clearing out enemy encampments ad nauseam.