ThisIsBlitz21

Member
Oct 22, 2018
4,675
To start off, I still thoroughly enjoyed the game. But for me at least, it's a 8/10-ish game vs the 10/10 BOTW was for me. I'm focusing on the negatives since the positives are very well documented and well-known at this point. Any review on youtube would tell you them.

1) The connected story/narrative of BOTW and TOTK leaves a lot to be desired. Having quite a few characters not know who Link is anymore, was a bummer. There was no adequate explanation of the sheikah tech just up and disappearing. Having so many of the same towns need Link's help again made me groan. It made what Link did in Breath of the Wild feel like it wasn't worth anything. Actually, in many ways, Hyrule overall feels in worse shape than BOTW, somehow.

2) I think BOTW had a "better told" story. There's no big mystery to unravel in Breath of the Wild, and as such, the memory system and collecting them out of order works just fine. Now we're told to unravel the mystery of what happened to Zelda, but with the exact same memory system, and its simply a mismatch. Therefore, if you get memories out of order, you can spoil the "big reveal" very early on. And then the story becomes awkward as Link knows what happened, other characters don't, and you can't even tell them. The ending sequence is giant upgrade though, props for that.

3) Both the sky islands, and especially the depths, were woefully undercooked. The depths being a complete inversion of the surface map was ingenious... and the first couple hours in there were amazing. But once you've figured out that it's completely monotonous with single biome, and not much in the way of unique places to visit, it loses it's wonder quite quickly. The first sky island you're on is by far the best, sets the stage up for the game very well. The rest of them feel tiny and inconsequential for the rest of the game.

4) Hyrule surface simply isn't changed enough to feel fresh. Caves and wells are a welcome edition. Theres also a lot of slight adjustments, that I came to appreciate as I came across familiar landmarks. But it just wasnt enough in my opinion, and the main quest sending to many of the same places doesnt help, either.


Adding to the two points above, they bit off more than they could chew (in my uneducated opinion, I'm not a game developer so I cannot say for sure)

With three big tasks:
a) Archipelago of islands in the Sky
b) A dark, gloomy, atmospheric underworld
c) A Hyrule that has seen significant changes since Breath of the Wild

All of them feel half-done. Couldve scrapped either one of the depths or the islands, and all the free-up development time into solely one of them, would've been better, in my opinion. For example. I would accept no sky island, and a somewhat-kinda changed hyrule, if the depths were fully fleshed out with biomes, towns, landmarks, etc.



5) The new abilities (which are mostly excellent still) trivialize a lot of puzzle solving, especially Ultrahand and just flying to places. The exception are a handful of shrines that take your equipment away. Sure, I can do the "intended method", but I dont like how a lot of the shrines, dungeons, etc can just be cheesed. Same with the overworld and acclimating yourself with the terrain. I feel like I did that much more due to how mandatory climbing was. Now though, zonai devices go brrrr.

6) The menu-ing feels somewhat worse in totk, somehow. Especially the process of making arrows mid-fight, plus the fuse abiltity. I sorely miss the bombs and pre-made elemental arrows, in this case.

7) Some overly opinionated nitpicks, dont mind me:
The game world feels a little less beautiful with the ugly hunks of rock floating in the sky, plus a lot of the fallen debris. A lot of goofy looking fusing options, goofy looking vehicles that are made with ultrahand. The shrine and tower designs were better in Botw, imo.
Botw's emptyness afforded the player a lot more quiet moments for the player to soak in, Totk can bombarded with stuff at times, in comparison.
Champions abilties > sages. So much easier and less clunkier to use.
Enemy variety was improved, but not enough.




Overall, I just feel like BOTW feels greater than the sum of all it's parts. Every aspect of the game worked in harmony with each other.

Totk adds A LOT, its an absolutely massive game. But a lot of it's additions don't mesh well with the holdovers from botw, especially, or even with each other sometimes. For example, horses still exist from the first game, but I find very little use of them now. It feels like a fan made a big-scale romhack of BOTW that's a ton of fun, but doesnt feel as curated and refined as the real thing, if you get what I'm saying.
 
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Mr.Adele

The Fallen
Mar 9, 2018
2,613
I think #1 was the biggest fumble. Being a sequel, they should've doubled down on connecting what happened in BotW to the sequel. Instead, people just vanish, things disappear, people forget things out of nowhere, some things are unexplained, etc. Very messy imo, felt like they wanted you to forget BotW instead of playing on what hapenned before. Sure, they didn't want newcomers to be left out in the dark, but there were better ways to do it.
 

Tuck

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,617
I like the game but it didn't grab me as much as I thought it would. I agree with your points, especially 1 and 3.

I wish there were more sky islands - honestly I wish that was the majority of the game. They really are the highlight. That said, I did also really like the depths at first, but I was surprised at how monotonous it became after a while. If it had been kind of like steamworld dig, where the further you go the weirder and more interesting things become, it would have been better I think.
 

Dice

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,208
Canada
There was no adequate explanation of the sheikah tech just up and disappearing.
BOTW-Player-Notices-Sheikah-Tower-Detail-Hidden-In-Plain-Sight.jpg

How-To-Get-Inside-Sahasra-Slope-Skyview-Tower-in-Tears-of-the-Kingdom.jpg


Also, IMO, required watching if you really love the BOTW NPCs.... or even if you don't! Their connections to TOTK are honestly quite strong but require hella memory lol


View: https://youtu.be/7b0fIU_S3oM?t=42
youtu.be

What I Learned Photographing NPCs in Tears of the Kingdom

Hylians, Rito, Zora, Gorons, Gerudo & Koroks: The NPCs of Gaming series returns with a look through the camera lens at the NPCs of Hyrule! Settle in, because...
 

MaNuu

Member
May 11, 2024
47
I agree, the depths and the sky could have been better. Nevertheless, I still enjoyed the game even more than BOTW. My favorite thing about TOTK is the fusion system, can't go back to BOTW now.
 

StarPhlox

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,514
Wisconsin
I appreciate the points made but I was way more enraptured with TOTK than I was with BOTW. I think it's the better game overall and the best Zelda game, although much like BOTW it's hard for me to imagine replaying it.
 

PucePikmin

Member
Apr 26, 2018
3,990
Yeah, I agree with a lot of this. I'll also add, off the top of my hand, that the removal of the Guardians really reduced the feeling of danger and excitement when exploring.
 

Castor Archer

Member
Jan 8, 2019
2,362
Completely agree with all points. Such a disappointing followup to BotW. After six years, it was not what I was waiting for. Idgaf about the building physics. It is the only Zelda I have not completed in over 20 years. BotW is my favorite game of all time and TotK just felt so weird and underbaked.
 

Macheezmo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
679
Yeah, ToTK is a solid 5/10 game for me. The depths were cool for like an hour, then they just felt monotonous and tedious. The champion abilities are awful to use, chasing the guys around when I need the shield ability isn't fun. The menuing, especially for fusing arrows, is complete garbage. I didn't find ultrahand particularly fun to use. It just grinds the game to a halt every time you have to stop and build something. The game was just not very enjoyable to actually play for me and I ended up dropping it
 

RPGam3r

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,837
The depths are the absolute worst part. I would gladly sacrifice it for more done on either of the remaining layers.
 

AgentOtaku

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,472
Loved the first 10 hours... and then dropped it after that.

Having put nearly 200 hours into BotW and being one of my all time favorites, I was... in disbelief how much I just didn't care for Tears of the Kingdom :(
 

Arithmetician

Member
Oct 9, 2019
2,110
I agree with all of your points, and despite that I still consider TotK one of the top 5 best games of all time probably?

I think most games have flaws, so its easy to forget or ignore what they do well, and TotK had a lot of amazing highlights during my 140 hour playthrough. Hard to begrudge the Zelda for missing some of their shots when they hit the mark so many different times with some impossible long shots.
 

lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
45,259
The depths was the quickest "This is cool" to "this sucks ass" perspective shift I think i've had with a Zelda game. Still, its a better game than BOTW in more ways than it isn't.
 

Rodney McKay

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,459
I felt like the surface of Hyrule had changed enough to feel different for me, but I hadn't really played BOTW since it first released (still played over 100 hours in it), but I'm sure people have played BOTW a lot longer than that, so I can see how some people could be a bit bored by it.

I think I only had 2 genuine complaints with TOTK:
  1. The outfit/armor upgrades are still the same grind for rarer and rarer materials. I already felt like I did enough of that in BOTW, so it was extra annoying to do all over again. Thank God for the item duplication glitches, they probably saved me hours of "legit" resource gathering, and I only went to the trouble of upgrading 2 or 3 outfits. I can't imagine how bad it is for people who want to max out everything.
  2. The "Tear" cutscenes being viewable out of order. I know there's a place that tells you the order, but it was annoying to get a cutscene without any idea of what was going on. I started skipping them and only watched them once I found them all.
 

aceface

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,099
It had been so long since I played BotW I totally forgot everything so the reused overworld didn't bother me. I didn't really have that much interest in the depths, but overall with the improved skills I enjoyed TotK more. I thought the story was stronger in TotK.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,025
I think my overall issues with open world as a genre in general are what keeps me from fawning over BOTW the way others might.

Now with TOTK "in the mix" we again have that funny little sequel discourse where the original might - in effect - be adjudged slightly more critically too. This crops up often with many series, RDR for instance.

If we agree that as a sequel it's not able to viewed as superior and therefore has failed some key requisite, then alright then.

If we cannot say this, and it's either actually the better game (or not) for whatever reason, that's okay too.

I don't quite understand the term "duology" in games that can seen as companion pieces but shouldn't that mean we now have to look at them as a whole eg Kill Bill? I don't think I want to do that.
 

SP.

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,787
Didn't like the game much at all. The depths were garbage, didn't feel any reward in exploring the environment as there just wasn't much of anything to actually find, story left a lot to be desired. The shrines were fun for the most part, but at some point it just felt like I was navigating a mostly empty world to get from shrine to shrine, since the shrines were where I was actually enjoying my time in that game.
 

Dice

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,208
Canada
  1. The "Tear" cutscenes being viewable out of order. I know there's a place that tells you the order, but it was annoying to get a cutscene without any idea of what was going on. I started skipping them and only watched them once I found them all.

Honestly smart idea. Absolutely had the 'main spoiler' practically spoon fed to me thanks to the first scene I found 😅
 

Theory

Member
Oct 27, 2017
103
Agree with all the points, I'm another disappointed enormous fan of BoTw, etc etc

This thread got me thinking tho.. these Nintendo games sell so godamn much regardless.. is there any precedent for Nintendo having "seemingly" responded to criticism for a previous game through the design of a sequel??
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,762
Agree with all the points, I'm another disappointed enormous fan of BoTw, etc etc

This thread got me thinking tho.. these Nintendo games sell so godamn much regardless.. is there any precedent for Nintendo having "seemingly" responded to criticism for a previous game through the design of a sequel??
Nintendo responds to criticism all the time. TOTK addresses some of the criticism of BOTW, even.
 

MoonlitBow

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,978
I have recently been wondering if TotK was actually an in-between project (despite how much time and care was put into it) because they are going to need more development time on a Zelda game that actually does have a new world map/new everything. Obviously they aren't going to say it is a side project for marketing.
 

FreddeGredde

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,915
I think your point number 4 is the most important one, for me anyway. Honest, it's the only big gripe I have with the game; It's the same frikkin' world I've already explored!

I'm confident that if it had been a completely new place, playing and exploring would have felt just as fresh as BotW, and no one would have had a problem with the other minor complaints. But now, building was the main new thing, and if it's not your cup of tea, there's almost nothing new to the game.

(I still very much love the game by the way, and think it's probably overall a better experience than BotW, if played before it.)
 

wbloop

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,315
Germany
The depths was the quickest "This is cool" to "this sucks ass" perspective shift I think i've had with a Zelda game. Still, its a better game than BOTW in more ways than it isn't.
Yeah that's pretty much where I stand, too. The depths kinda sucked, but everything else was such a dramatic upgrade from BotW that it became my favorite Zelda game instantly after I rolled credits after 140 hours. I thought BotW was cool, but kinda overrated considering one of the best aspects of a Zelda game - namely the dungeons - was sorely missing. Sure, TotK still wasn't perfect when it came to its dungeon-esque levels, but it was way better in that regard compared to BotW.

Point #4 is absolutely correct, though, and I definitely hope that they either have a completely new open world with the next mainline game or that they go back to the older conventional style of 3D Zelda.
 

duckroll

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,105
Singapore
Few thoughts on this:

1) Given the sort of story they wanted to tell, making it a sequel to BotW may not have been the best idea. They could have told a better version of the same story by simply making it a new Zelda tale, but with similar aesthetics and design to BotW.

2) The Depths are a very good idea but very poorly fleshed out in practice. What might have been a lot cooler is if they kept the concept of the Depths and left all the sinkhole entrances as they were throughout the map, but instead of leading into a reverse Hyrule underground that feels randomly generated, each entrance could have have led to a designed dungeon of sorts, even more reminiscent of Zelda 1.
 

Ehoavash

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,303
Yeah the depths was such a wow it's nothing down here besides the 2nd dungeon...

But still the game was way better than Botw cause it had a proper ending
 

Doggg

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Nov 17, 2017
14,721
Random thoughts

Neither the sky islands nor The Depths were adequate substitutes for a new map to explore. Neither had the appeal of the original map in Breath of the Wild of seeing something over in the horizon that you want to get to -- and end up getting sidetracked doing lots of other things along the way.

Old issues were not substantively improved on: still not enough enemy variety, weapons breaking and item management were still annoying. Lots of the same items and weapons, too. At least now you can make all your weapons ugly as fuck.

So much felt like a retread of the first game.

The Master Sword is still pretty underwhelming, and they didn't do anything new with it, either. I liked the spectacle of getting it from the dragon's head, but that too felt like a retread (draining your stamina instead of your life). I guess you can fuse a bunch of junk to it now, though.

Maybe I just didn't try to use them creatively enough, but the new rune powers or whatever weren't as useable in battle as the powers in Breath of the Wild. One of them you just use to fuse stuff to your weapons and shields and is largely just more item management.

The big final battle between the two dragons was cool. But I was shocked that the lead up to it was a bunch of boring caverns and rubble.

Recycled music. Recycled lots of things, but the music bothered me more than other things for some reason. And what was added wasn't too impressive. I can't even really remember it.

Master hand stuff could get rather tedious. Didn't really do anything especially cool with the vehicles you make, either. Just felt like a lot of busy work much of the time.

On the other hand:

Being able to add all kinds of effects to your weapons was cool.

The overall quality of the shrines was better. The master hand abilities made for better puzzles.

Ascend is awesome. That's like the one thing that'd make it hard to go back to BOTW for me. I'd likely miss it in future Zelda titles, too.

Fighting Ganon's other forms were cool.

Those oily gloopy puddle enemies were scary as fuck.

I liked holding up those signs, even if the puzzles got repetitive and the rewards weren't that great.

Overall, I didn't enjoy my time with it very much. The big final battle was the only really standout moment for me. I, too, put over 200 hours in BOTW, and it was one of the few games I 100 percented. TOTK, I seriously struggled to finish.

And I was very, very hyped for TOTK. So it pains me to have found it so disappointing. BOTW, I'd give a 10/10. TOTK, maybe 6/10.
 
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Phendrift

Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,556
Agree with all the points, I'm another disappointed enormous fan of BoTw, etc etc

This thread got me thinking tho.. these Nintendo games sell so godamn much regardless.. is there any precedent for Nintendo having "seemingly" responded to criticism for a previous game through the design of a sequel??
I mean it's not even just about sales, TotK reviewed incredibly well and for a huge amount of people addressed a bunch of complaints about BotW itself.

Most complaints about Tears are about it feeling too familiar so I doubt that'll even be a problem for the next game in the first place as they're presumably starting fresh with a new world according to Aonuma.
 

Phendrift

Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,556
I have recently been wondering if TotK was actually an in-between project (despite how much time and care was put into it) because they are going to need more development time on a Zelda game that actually does have a new world map/new everything. Obviously they aren't going to say it is a side project for marketing.
I definitely do think there's merit to that idea. It's logical that there's parts of the team working on aspects of a new game that werent necessarily needed for TotK (solidifying a new art style, designing a new link and Zelda for instance). Even the level designers could've moved on in that last year of polishing.
 

Theguyface

Member
May 30, 2020
298
TOTK grabbed me quick and had me wanting to see it through. BOTW felt more like a big empty checklist. Respect your points OP but fully disagree with most of your opinions.
 

Common Knowledge

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,406
BotW made a bigger impact on me at that time, but TotK to me is a notably better video game in almost every regard.

With that said, I do feel the complaints about the Depths. Honestly I think they should've gone a full rouge-type route and have it that you can't just warp out if the depths at anytime, but rather only leave by using those giant columns to Ascend or ride a dragon. Oh and dying makes you lose all resources you collected (not treasure though). I think that would have really made the Depths feel imposing all throughout the game rather than just the first few times you enter it. Have it really be a risk-reward mechanic.
 

zerosnake99

Member
Oct 25, 2018
1,148
I think the game is extremely overhyped. I couldn't even bother to complete the game because of the absolute lack of QoL features. And yeah, once you figure out the gimmick for the The Depths, it's super simple.

www.resetera.com

Your controversial gaming opinions?

Dunno how controversial this is, but: Ultrakill, despite being in early access, is better than DOOM at everything it has tried to do in thirty years.. The premise is elaborated on and has more time given to the base ideas that create it. The gameplay is reminiscent of the old shooters, but has...
 

MoonlitBow

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,978
I definitely do think there's merit to that idea. It's logical that there's parts of the team working on aspects of a new game that werent necessarily needed for TotK (solidifying a new art style, designing a new link and Zelda for instance). Even the level designers could've moved on in that last year of polishing.
To add to what we are saying, I think TotK was probably meant to be a project they can put out that utilized improvements to their physics engine and graphics (as much as the Switch allows anyway) and because of that another reason they wanted to polish the game and make sure it is bug free is because that is important for their next game as well.
 

Jakenbakin

"This guy are sick" and Corrupted by Vengeance
Member
Jun 17, 2018
12,136
BOTW-Player-Notices-Sheikah-Tower-Detail-Hidden-In-Plain-Sight.jpg

How-To-Get-Inside-Sahasra-Slope-Skyview-Tower-in-Tears-of-the-Kingdom.jpg


Also, IMO, required watching if you really love the BOTW NPCs.... or even if you don't! Their connections to TOTK are honestly quite strong but require hella memory lol


View: https://youtu.be/7b0fIU_S3oM?t=42
youtu.be

What I Learned Photographing NPCs in Tears of the Kingdom

Hylians, Rito, Zora, Gorons, Gerudo & Koroks: The NPCs of Gaming series returns with a look through the camera lens at the NPCs of Hyrule! Settle in, because...

That was an awesome video! I loved BotW but never beat it and can't say I'm super familiar with the NPCs, but much like this person I spent just hours and hours of TotK following NPCs, learning their stories, and just generally loving how much detail their lives entailed. So it's cool to see that connective tissue for so many of them going back to BotW!
 

MoonlitBow

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,978
Thinking about it now, I only played one actual main story segment of TotK but I remember NPCs that have obvious reasons to remember Link (basically everyone in the starting town and the outer parts of the castle where guards are hanging out) do remember him while NPCs that aren't guaranteed to have ever met Link treat him as new and I was fine with that since it avoided kind of a Half-Life 2 situation where everyone knew Gordon Freeman and kept praising him which ended up annoying me.
 

ghibli99

Member
Oct 27, 2017
18,194
I think the "ease" of getting around Hyrule via the towers and sky sections took a bit away from the organic discovery of BOTW... but I do think Nintendo did this because they figured most people playing this wouldn't want to hoof it over the entirety of the same map all over again.

Game is amazing mechanically. Just feels a bit too familiar at the end of the day. And despite all that, it's still one of the best games of this generation.
 

Bjomesphat

Member
Nov 5, 2017
1,865
TotK pretty much fixed all of my gameplay issues with BotW. BotW feels like 20 hours of content, stretched and repeated for 100+ hours. Once you make your way through your first Divine Beast, you've pretty much seen everything the game has to offer. The rest of the game is just an exercise in tedium as you slowly traverse the world. I do like the focus on exploration and discovery, and overall chill atmosphere of BotW, but there's not much game changing content to find unfortunately.

TotK removes all that tedium and gives you the tools to explore in a fraction of the time. There's still not that much more to find, but it's a blast doing it. I also didn't mind reusing the same world map because I don't think they intended for you to explore Hyrule field again. The Sky Islands are basically one big traversal puzzle, and exploring that gives you enough height to find most of the points of interest on the field. I don't think I ever used a horse for any amount of significance because it's just so inefficient. And for the Depths, I personally liked it. It's fun dungeon crawling, but again, just go towards points of interest and don't focus on exploring the whole thing.
 

Dice

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,208
Canada
That was an awesome video! I loved BotW but never beat it and can't say I'm super familiar with the NPCs, but much like this person I spent just hours and hours of TotK following NPCs, learning their stories, and just generally loving how much detail their lives entailed. So it's cool to see that connective tissue for so many of them going back to BotW!

Right?? TONS of details, the develops absolutely cooked on its strange and fun NPCs. And Zelda NPCs never get enough credit.

But yeah it totally opened up TOTK to me and got me reading every damn line of sidequest dialogue I got (and hoo boy! NPCs get wordy!)
 

Naner

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,133
5) The new abilities (which are mostly excellent still) trivialize a lot of puzzle solving, especially Ultrahand and just flying to places. The exception are a handful of shrines that take your equipment away. Sure, I can do the "intended method", but I dont like how a lot of the shrines, dungeons, etc can just be cheesed. Same with the overworld and acclimating yourself with the terrain. I feel like I did that much more due to how mandatory climbing was. Now though, zonai devices go brrrr.
This is it for me. I call it the "antipuzzle". You can see that there is an interesting way to solve it, but you can just build a makeshift bridge and get over it. It's fun the first couple of times, but then the entire game is this.

And exploration of the main overworld feels pointless when I can always skydive exactly where I need to be.

That said I really enjoyed figuring out how to hop from one sky island to another, which I did early on with few resources.
 

Baphomet

Member
Dec 8, 2018
17,773
TOTK is a much better version of BOTW so I am puzzled by the complaints people have about it 🤷‍♂️.
 
Jan 23, 2024
472
I'm still not over how underbaked the sky islands felt. So much promise, such a striking, evocative locale (even Nintendo's marketing team agreed) and introduced verticality into the world in such an interesting way... And the tutorial area turned out to be its biggest landmass by a wide margin and most islands sported short puzzles or were the locations of shrines, maybe. I've rarely seen such a whiplash of marketing focus on a game element so sparse and underutilized in a Nintendo first party game quite to this degree. With the protracted development time I just don't really know what happened there, there doesn't seem to be a plausible explanation for such a stark disconnect.
 

Plum

Member
May 31, 2018
17,411
To start off, I still thoroughly enjoyed the game. But for me at least, it's a 8/10-ish game vs the 10/10 BOTW was for me. I'm focusing on the negatives since the positives are very well documented and well-known at this point. Any review on youtube would tell you them.
Tbh, so are all these negatives. Search for TotK Critique on YouTube and you're gonna find many videos that cover pretty much the same gripes as yours. Just did a search through incognito browsing (to avoid and algorithm shenanigans), and I counted about 36 negatively-titled videos to about 3 or 4 positively-leaning ones after a bit of scrolling. All with titles like "disappointing," or "why I couldn't finish," or whatever.

Not to say the thread shouldn't exist - if anyone's truly offended or annoyed they can just ignore it lol - but this framing of the game's negatives as being not well-documented is just kind of untrue at this point.
 
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Phendrift

Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,556
To add to what we are saying, I think TotK was probably meant to be a project they can put out that utilized improvements to their physics engine and graphics (as much as the Switch allows anyway) and because of that another reason they wanted to polish the game and make sure it is bug free is because that is important for their next game as well.
Honestly it was probably a passion project. I know I'm not the only fan who played and loved BotW yet saw the huge amount of potential it had. It's not hard to believe the developers felt the same way and that's why it's a maximalist expression of a lot of BotW's ideas. But yeah, I do agree that the level at which they pushed the underlying systems with TotK is going to massively benefit Zelda development from here on out.

Even if it never gets as freeing as Ultrahand again, it definitely created a ton of institutional knowledge.
 

HardRojo

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,487
Peru
I was really surprised at all the perfect reviews it got after I finally played it. I can't imagine replaying BotW right before TotK, that must've been quite the exhausting experience.

I had to focus on the main quests at one point because otherwise I just felt like I was playing BotW again, didn't care for the "freedom" of the build anything mechanic, in fact I actually hated it. I think the Dragon Tears side quest and dipe glitch helped me enjoy the game a lot more, can't imagine finishing it without that glitch. I think it took me 70 hours or so to finish this one, vs the 100 hours I spent on BotW.

Also, I was hoping the writers wouldn't resort to reverting a certain someone at the end of the game. That terribly cheapened the ending for me.
 

MoonlitBow

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,978
Honestly it was probably a passion project. I know I'm not the only fan who played and loved BotW yet saw the huge amount of potential it had. It's not hard to believe the developers felt the same way and that's why it's a maximalist expression of a lot of BotW's ideas. But yeah, I do agree that the level at which they pushed the underlying systems with TotK is going to massively benefit Zelda development from here on out.

Even if it never gets as freeing as Ultrahand again, it definitely created a ton of institutional knowledge.
Both can be true, Ultrahand being a result of their physics engine improvements and putting in in-game tools for the players that show off how far they have come and since they are reusing the same world they probably wanted players to have a new way to play around it it even if it resulted in a lot of content trivialized.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,615
I mashed through every skipable scene in both botw and Totk. They had zero story in my mind. Both 10/10 games for me.
 

Spinluck

▲ Legend ▲
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
28,877
Chicago
I had gripes with the game. I have gripes with every game I play. It was still an amazing experience for me.
 

JaseMath

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,641
Denver, CO
#3 was the biggest issue for me. Both biomes were lazy (and often repeats of similar areas), boring, and worse, completely meaningless. You could remove 95% of both and the game would've been the same.

I sank 100+ hours into BotW and never got bored of it, even after seeing and doing everything. TotK, meanwhile, I dropped after beating and never picked it back up. It simply lacked the same magic.
 

Vlad

Member
Oct 25, 2017
400
Oh, I'm always down to vent some of my many, many frustrations with TotK!

1) The connected story/narrative of BOTW and TOTK leaves a lot to be desired. Having quite a few characters not know who Link is anymore, was a bummer. There was no adequate explanation of the sheikah tech just up and disappearing. Having so many of the same towns need Link's help again made me groan. It made what Link did in Breath of the Wild feel like it wasn't worth anything. Actually, in many ways, Hyrule overall feels in worse shape than BOTW, somehow.

Yeah, I'm not usually hung up on stuff like this, but since they set it in the same game world, it really does stick out when they drop the ball on stuff like this.

Like, take the whole Ganondorf thing. From what I remember of the memories in TotK, after the scene where Ganondorf is pretending to offer his loyalty to the Zonai, Zelda's all "I don't think we can trust him...", when her actual reaction should have been more like "Hey, that guy has an eerily similar name to the demon I just spent the last 100 years keeping imprisoned in a giant cocoon!".

Not only that, but it doesn't help that the game pretty much has the same basic plot as BotW. Zelda spends a huge amount of time basically imprisoned in order to help the fight against evil, while in the present time, Link has to go around and get the help of the ghosts of four champions and then head to the center of the map to defeat Ganondorf.

On top of that, I also had a huge problem with how they didn't do more mechanically with having the games linked up like that. Like, I can carry over all my saved horses (which are now even more useless than in the last game!), but I have to take pictures of everything from scratch all over again, despite most of the stuff being the same anyway? Boo!

Oh, and could some clear up exactly what the timeline is for the game? At some point after BotW, Zelda and Link are exploring under Hyrule castle, they find Ganondorf, and as Link is asleep, Zelda gets zapped into the past, then the game starts.

Judging by how much older Purah looks, I'm assuming that the game proper takes place ~10 years after BotW, but what about the early events? Is the prologue under the castle right after BotW and then there's a 10 year gap until TotK, or does the prologue take place closer to when TotK happens and Link isn't MIA for that long?

2) I think BOTW had a "better told" story. There's no big mystery to unravel in Breath of the Wild, and as such, the memory system and collecting them out of order works just fine. Now we're told to unravel the mystery of what happened to Zelda, but with the exact same memory system, and its simply a mismatch. Therefore, if you get memories out of order, you can spoil the "big reveal" very early on. And then the story becomes awkward as Link knows what happened, other characters don't, and you can't even tell them. The ending sequence is giant upgrade though, props for that.

I didn't mind getting the memories out of order as much as some people did, but yeah, that might be because I didn't get the critical ones early on. My biggest problem was that instead of the way BotW makes you actually pay attention to the clues in the photographs and use them to figure out where the memory might be relative to them, the game just drags you over to a map that just straight up tells you exactly where they all are.

All of them feel half-done. Couldve scrapped either one of the depths or the islands, and all the free-up development time into solely one of them, would've been better, in my opinion. For example. I would accept no sky island, and a somewhat-kinda changed hyrule, if the depths were fully fleshed out with biomes, towns, landmarks, etc.

I think the biggest insut-to-injury part of all of this is that it took them basically the length of an entire console generation to do this, AND they had the gall to feel justified making this game more expensive than all their other ones. It's definitely beefier than just a DLC, but there's just too much undercooked or reused stuff to really justify the time and price.

5) The new abilities (which are mostly excellent still) trivialize a lot of puzzle solving, especially Ultrahand and just flying to places. The exception are a handful of shrines that take your equipment away. Sure, I can do the "intended method", but I dont like how a lot of the shrines, dungeons, etc can just be cheesed. Same with the overworld and acclimating yourself with the terrain. I feel like I did that much more due to how mandatory climbing was. Now though, zonai devices go brrrr.

I said it in one of my other "bitching about TotK" posts and I'm sure it's an unpopular opinion, but I think both games would be better off without the climbing at all. It makes the act of actually navigating the world completely trivial. You never have to worry about falling due to the paraglider, and aside from dealing with temperature extremes, you can pretty much go most places just by brute-force climbing there. I always wonder what the games would have been like if you had to actually explore the world at ground-level the whole time, actually navigating the world instead of just beelining straight over every possible obstacle.

It'd certainly give the poor horses reason to exist.

6) The menu-ing feels somewhat worse in totk, somehow. Especially the process of making arrows mid-fight, plus the fuse abiltity. I sorely miss the bombs and pre-made elemental arrows, in this case.

I actually liked how the arrows were handled. Having to use Fuse on weapons was a pain, since you absolutely had to do it, and all you had to do for the whole game was just fuse your strongest weapon to your strongest inventory item and you were set for 99% of situations. It also didn't help that they couldn't figure out a way to do weapon fusing without the whole stupid "drop the item on the ground first" thing.

Arrows, on the other hand, actually had a few legitimately useful fuse applications, although I primarily was cheesing the hell out of Keese eyeballs. I don't think I ever legitimately fought a Gleeok the entire game: I just used a Lynel bow and a bunch of Keese'd arrows and racked up the homing headshots.

7)
Champions abilties > sages. So much easier and less clunkier to use.

The only one I thought was an improvement was the Rito one. The one in BotW was a bit overpowered, while this one just being a short horizontal push felt a lot more balanced.

But yeah, I don't even want to think about the number of times I accidentally activated that while trying to pick stuff up, only to have him blow all the stuff I was trying to collect off a cliff or something.

As a matter of fact, why on earth did we need to push a button to collect stuff in the first place? It makes sense for things like swords and shields, where inventory space is limited and we might not want to grab a certain one, but all the other inventory filler should have just been picked up automatically.

Enemy variety was improved, but not enough.

Amen to that. Ever since I've played TotK, I've REALLY come to appreciate enemy variety in other games, simply because Nintendo dropped the ball so catastrophically with these two games. I'm going through Prince of Persia: The Lost Crown right now, and I've visited maybe 10 different areas, and while there's a few enemies that show up across multiple ones, there's also unique ones for each area, with their own different patterns to learn.

Ok, but you know what, there's one small thing I actually really liked in TotK: The sort of double-fake when it came to the newspaper story quests. I found most of the quests in the game to be rather bland, but I actually kind of appreciated that you were supposed to think that it was the evil copy of Zelda that was going around and causing all these problems, but it turned out that it was just all these silly misunderstandings.

Basically, I really liked the way that what you originally thought was going to be some big twist ended up being a twist by virtue of NOT being a twist....

Which, of course, is also making me think of PoP:TLK. The game has been dropping some not-too-subtle hints towards the fact that (complete speculation)the main character is actually a secret prince of Persia, but if they actually do eventually reveal that and play it like it was supposed to be a big surprise, it'll almost be comical due to how heavily it was foreshadowed. At this point, the only thing that would make sense would be for it to NOT be true.