My thoughts on Chrono Trigger
- Thread starter Dreamboum
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Yes, good thread. I played the game in 2006 or 2007 (EU version wasn't released in Europe so I played it on an emulator years later. Not my fault.) and wondered what separated this game from others on SNES, because I didn't see it. Make no mistake, it's a good game, but I enjoyed Lufia 2, Terranigma, Tales of Phantasia a bit more. I also liked Chrono Cross a bit better.
I could totally how someone in 2018 that has played hundreds of games and goes on a SNES binge could have this opinion. but having played it at launch when I was 16 I think it deserves all the praises it gets. The high points of the game still resonate with me 23 years later.
Played Chrono Trigger and Earthbound for the first time in the past two years and they still roflstomp most games.
Your interjection is denied.
I find that really interesting, because I have the opposite response. I love FFVI and FFXII and could not, for the life of me, get into FFVII or any of the PS1 Final Fantasy games.
My first console was an N64, and then I got a PS2 a few years after it was released. My first Final Fantasy was FFX, which I absolutely loved (though I have no idea how it holds up). So I had to go back and play the SNES era RPGs and the PS1 RPGs. Many of the former wowed me, while the latter mostly bored me.
I wonder what the breakdown is in a thread like this for when people first experienced the game? How about you?
Earthbound's bizarre nature and quirky battle system helps it stand the test of time much better than CT. It was a game ahead of its time in that regard.
But even then it suffers from archaic-by-today's-standards, old af gameplay mechanics that were the standard back then.
You're judging the game by today's standards rather than the time the game was released in. If Chrono Trigger was released as is today for the first time, it'd be a competent throwback game with a neat little story and some stellar music. Sure it's got a simple battle system now, sure there's some back tracking, and sure it's not a revolution of the genre now. But it's still damn good. And that's if it was released today.
In the lens of 1995? Not a single of your arguments hold water. You're wrong on every account.
• The Battle System was incredible, taking into account Active Battle Timers, player positioning, and the combined attacks.
• Random Encounters wouldn't have made the game any better, and you didn't need to grind to get through the game to progress. Having enemies visible on screen made it possible to get through areas without having to deal with bullshit you didn't want to deal with at the expense of zig-zagging around the enemies.
• Backtracking? Sure. But there wasn't that much of it, and it was always pretty easy. Also the lack of random encounters kept the backtracking from getting too obnoxious.
• I disagree with you on every criticism of the story, but that's all pretty subjective. You're nuts to say it lacked nuance and the second half of the story was just as strong as the first.
• Chrono Trigger had new game plus, had a different method of dealing with enemy encounters, took into account positioning it a battle system, refined the active battle timer, and had multiple endings. These things made their way into many games across many genres. Revolutionary? Maybe not. But it sparked a great deal of improvements made to games that came after.
I admit I'm way too heated over a game from 1995, but I love that game and hate to see someone underappreciate it like this.
In the lens of 1995? Not a single of your arguments hold water. You're wrong on every account.
• The Battle System was incredible, taking into account Active Battle Timers, player positioning, and the combined attacks.
• Random Encounters wouldn't have made the game any better, and you didn't need to grind to get through the game to progress. Having enemies visible on screen made it possible to get through areas without having to deal with bullshit you didn't want to deal with at the expense of zig-zagging around the enemies.
• Backtracking? Sure. But there wasn't that much of it, and it was always pretty easy. Also the lack of random encounters kept the backtracking from getting too obnoxious.
• I disagree with you on every criticism of the story, but that's all pretty subjective. You're nuts to say it lacked nuance and the second half of the story was just as strong as the first.
• Chrono Trigger had new game plus, had a different method of dealing with enemy encounters, took into account positioning it a battle system, refined the active battle timer, and had multiple endings. These things made their way into many games across many genres. Revolutionary? Maybe not. But it sparked a great deal of improvements made to games that came after.
I admit I'm way too heated over a game from 1995, but I love that game and hate to see someone underappreciate it like this.
Yet more than one poster in this very thread said they played it for the first time in the recent years and were impressed - and also people who played it back during its release and didn't get all the love. It's never that simple.
Any game, movie or whatever will have people blown away by it and people who think it's just ok regardless of the when.
(Particularly, most of the SNES games I played to completion, or at least having a critical sense, I played during the early 2000s)
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I don't get it. The most recent game I compared it too was Chrono Cross. I have not judged the game by today's standard. I believe there were games that were more interesting at the time : SMT2, FF6, Romancing SaGa 3 to name a few, and they were more interesting and daring games to me
I think FF6 is on the same level as Chrono Trigger, and that confuses me, because of all of your critiques would apply equally to that game. The battle system is simplistic, the story lacks nuance, etc. I could understand not being able to get into SNES RPGs, but not liking Chrono Trigger specifically is hard to wrap my head around.
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I think the World of Ruin is daring and aiming for impressive things in regards to non-linearity and character development. It's hard to deny that scenes like Cyan's dreamscape made out of his insecurites were the surrealistic lynchian worlds you wouldn't often get to see in a JRPG. It offered a level of development that went beyond most games I've played by offering proper conclusions to character arcs with the space they deserve rather than beîg hurried along for the final fight. FF6's setpieces are on an entirely different level, and i don't think it is even remotely similar to CT.
Well... for me:
CT = great when it was released but now, decent at very best.
CC = On par with CT but what make this better for me is the beautiful world and music.
FFVI = actually this is my favorite 2D game of all time alongside with Super Mrio Bros 3.
FFVII = This game was way ahead of its time.. the massive story and cast of characters and details in the world, the mid blowing atmosphere, overall without any doubt one of the greatest games of all time... doesn't matter you played it back in 1997 or now, all my friends ( yes all of them ) who played and finished the game in the 2000s and 2010s were breathtaking by every single aspect the game offered.. there is a reason why this game is beloved so dearly by millions and why it's so iconic.
FFVIII = I prefer VII but VIII hold the most precious spot in me simply because of the beautiful art direction and the world.
FFIX = The perfect FF game.
FFX = The last great FF game that was none online.
FFXII = The most boring world in the franchise... it disgusts me, the story is laughable and it shows half through the game the problems the game had during the development.
FFXIII = Liner and lifless... but I will take it anytime any day over XII.
FFXV = The biggest lost potential a game could lose.
I finished and played all of the main numbered and their sequels... but let's not dig deeper.
And oh... Xenogears is a masterpiece, it's the twin sibling for FFVII.
Honestly, I felt the opposite.
While I find what FFVI did to be impressive, it also felt like it was juggling too many characters. Trigger's tighter cast ended up being more endearing to me.
I think it's more that the OP wanted it to be Chrono Cross.
They already played it, so should have known what to expect.
I strongly disagree. The tone is different, certainly. Chrono Trigger has a lot more DQ in it, so it has a lighter tone, but like in DQ games, the lighter tone sits on top of some darker themes. The environmental themes are powerful, and the way that it gives some of your choices real impact sets it apart from other RPGs of the time.
And because both games have simplistic dialogue and can't do so much with cutscenes, the genius of both games is the way they deliver narrative through game mechanics. And listen, FFVI is one of my other favorite games of all time, so I'm not going to knock it in order to prop up CT. The moments that stand out from both games fit this framework. So you've got Celes on the beach in WoR and Lucca trying to save her mother in the past. And the opera, Magus' character arc, both final bosses, etc.
For me, both games shine in the same ways. And they stand in stark contrast to PS1 RPGs, which have always felt bloated and too reliant on spectacle to me.
I can walk through my history in the order I played them (I think. I have a bad memory)
FFX: Loved it. Made me fall in love with the series. Absolutely loved the turn based battle system, the characters, the story, etc.
FFXII: Really liked it, but was also bad at it. So I didn't beat it. But I'm going to get it for the Switch and finally play all the way through.
CT: Blew me away. One of my favorite games of all time. Have replayed several times since.
FFVI: On par with Chrono Trigger. A masterpiece.
FFVII: Have started several time, and can never get into. Will maybe try again when it's released on Switch
FFVIII: Bored me to tears.
FFIX: Haven't played. Will probably also pick up for Switch.
Chrono Cross: Again, could not get into. Played for a while, but the story didn't really capture my interest, and I found it kind of slow.
Xenogears: Really really enjoyed it, but never got a chance to finish it. Found it to be significantly more enjoyable than FFVII.
To be honest, it may be that I missed the boat on early polygonal graphics. Xenogears doesn't try to be actually 3D, which may be why it's the exception. Otherwise, it's hard for me to move past the visual style. I also think that games of that era became too overly long. Once they realized how much they could store on CDs, they went a bit mad with power.
Huh
Marle doesn't change at all from start to finish. If anything her father is the one who gets character development in her sidequests.
Battle System was an evolution of the Active Time Battle, and brought in proximity based attacks along with the techs which made for some interesting party combos.
The random encounters meant that at any given time you should have a decent chance at defeating whatever foe you're faced against. Certain encounters happen only at certain times so unlike most RPG's at the time you'd know where you should be at power wise. Also, loading? Please tell me you didn't play the PS1 version of the game.
Backtracking is fierce, sure, but makes perfect sense in the change the past to affect the future, but if you don't like it, you don't like it.
Chrono Trigger's entire battle system/encounter design is absolutely about hitting targets in the correct order first, choosing correctly whether to hit them with physical or magic second, and hitting them with the correct element in third place.
The double and triple techs are mostly really, really delightful icing on the cake and often don't have a major mechanical impact on what you can do (outside of the crucial early heal-your-full-party stuff) - they don't *vastly* outclass what you could accomplish just by taking each person's turn separately, but the flavor it gives to battles is really really wonderful.
Something I think Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy VI both succeed at that a bewildering amount of JRPGs *don't* is the fairly simple endgame/postgame structure of having one fully-story-emphasized major sidequest per party member (with which you get their ultimate equipment or ability or whatever). It's a really straightforward formula for getting me to love your game, honestly.
The double and triple techs are mostly really, really delightful icing on the cake and often don't have a major mechanical impact on what you can do (outside of the crucial early heal-your-full-party stuff) - they don't *vastly* outclass what you could accomplish just by taking each person's turn separately, but the flavor it gives to battles is really really wonderful.
Something I think Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy VI both succeed at that a bewildering amount of JRPGs *don't* is the fairly simple endgame/postgame structure of having one fully-story-emphasized major sidequest per party member (with which you get their ultimate equipment or ability or whatever). It's a really straightforward formula for getting me to love your game, honestly.
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It IS a genre defining epic. There's criticism of the game that's absolutely valid, but it's unquestionably one of the defining RPGs of that generation, which had an absolute murderer's row of JRPGs.
That's how I felt when I played it back then as a kid. Especially following Final Fantasy VI (3 back then).
But I'm open to try again soon on DS, see if I was missing something. I love the folks who made the game, that's for sure.
But I'm open to try again soon on DS, see if I was missing something. I love the folks who made the game, that's for sure.
My thoughts on CT are the following : it's the best RPG ever made alongside Baten Kaitos 1+2 :P
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The party dynamics are so awesome in FFVI. Strago and Relm linked to Shadow, Celes linked to Cyan's disdain of the Empire and Locke having feelings for her, Edgar and Sabin trying to help Gau be presentable to meet his father. So many inter-relations within the party that makes it endearing, they all feel part of the adventure to me. Everyone is tied to each other in many ways, with very few exceptions. Not often you see a ninja and a mutant who has nothing in common talking earnestly about life.
And the direction of cut-scenes is so stellar too. I'll always remember that scene where Cyan says goodbye to his family, and you have to wait 20 seconds without being able to do anything just to give the time and space for Cyan to grieve, looking down with no words in the silence of the phantom forest. It's brilliant.
Haven't played Cross but I've not cared for Trigger or all but 2 SNES rpgs in general.
Disagree with CT being to easy cause I remember getting my butt handed to me by normal baddies n/m bosses. Maybe I just suck at it. Still wish it and the battle system were simpler. A huge chunk of regular old baddies either have counterattacks or stupidly high resistance to anything but their weakness. Having to Lightning every single dino I come across to lower their defense in order to actually damage 'em is absolutely busy work. Plus in a battle system where positioning matters for alot of special attacks... ya can't manually position your characters. Baddies can freely move about in the battle area but you? Gotta rely on pure luck to make the most efficient use of a tech. Also the game has difficulty spikes like crazy!
I'd always rather have random encounters as a rule. The maybe you can/maybe you can't avoid 'em system CT and many other rpgs with visible baddies have suck whether they're scripted or not. The endgame is more like the second half of the game cause of the forced "optional" sidequesting. I say forced cause unless you're on NG+ you're not gonna be in a position to go clear out the final dungeon/boss the earliest ya get access to 'em. Both of these things are absolutely an illusion to make the player think they can get away with something they really can't.
Disagree with CT being to easy cause I remember getting my butt handed to me by normal baddies n/m bosses. Maybe I just suck at it. Still wish it and the battle system were simpler. A huge chunk of regular old baddies either have counterattacks or stupidly high resistance to anything but their weakness. Having to Lightning every single dino I come across to lower their defense in order to actually damage 'em is absolutely busy work. Plus in a battle system where positioning matters for alot of special attacks... ya can't manually position your characters. Baddies can freely move about in the battle area but you? Gotta rely on pure luck to make the most efficient use of a tech. Also the game has difficulty spikes like crazy!
I'd always rather have random encounters as a rule. The maybe you can/maybe you can't avoid 'em system CT and many other rpgs with visible baddies have suck whether they're scripted or not. The endgame is more like the second half of the game cause of the forced "optional" sidequesting. I say forced cause unless you're on NG+ you're not gonna be in a position to go clear out the final dungeon/boss the earliest ya get access to 'em. Both of these things are absolutely an illusion to make the player think they can get away with something they really can't.
Objection !
CT was released for the first time in Europe... On DS. That's when I played it and it's one of the best RPG I've played till now.
Objection ! :P
I tried playing Earthbound on Wii U years ago and disliked it.
Don't worry, your post is on point ! :)
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FFVI is my second favorite FF game, I know how good it can be, haha.The party dynamics are so awesome in FFVI. Strago and Relm linked to Shadow, Celes linked to Cyan's disdain of the Empire and Locke having feelings for her, Edgar and Sabin trying to help Gau be presentable to meet his father. So many inter-relations within the party that makes it endearing, they all feel part of the adventure to me. Everyone is tied to each other in many ways, with very few exceptions. Not often you see a ninja and a mutant who has nothing in common talking earnestly about life.
And the direction of cut-scenes is so stellar too. I'll always remember that scene where Cyan says goodbye to his family, and you have to wait 20 seconds without being able to do anything just to give the time and space for Cyan to grieve, looking down with no words in the silence of the phantom forest. It's brilliant.
I just still like CT more.
Chrono Triggers parts, IMO just combine into a fantastic whole. It feels like the conclusion of what all JRPGs from the 8-bit and 16-bit era were building up to, destined to revolutionize the genre for later generations.
But, like a stupid goddamn will-they-won't-they romcom, the devs dropped the ball and went back to square one in the progress department. They hardly took much of Trigger's design improvements or ideas and I'm still disappointed in that.
But, like a stupid goddamn will-they-won't-they romcom, the devs dropped the ball and went back to square one in the progress department. They hardly took much of Trigger's design improvements or ideas and I'm still disappointed in that.
Chrono Trigger is too old of a game to fully appreciate (I was born in '95). I've tried a couple times with FFVI as well and just can't do it.
Meanwhile Chrono Cross is a worse looking game but I find it to be more fun to play by today's standards.
Meanwhile Chrono Cross is a worse looking game but I find it to be more fun to play by today's standards.
I didn't play this game to this day because of a silly personal reason, not sure if I'll ever play it too.
tho about the revolution point. I always think about this... is Chrono Trigger a western thing? I mean, I know it has fans in Japan as well, but is it considered this timeless masterpiece like it is in the west? I legit don't think too many games were influenced by it, Dragon Quest V and Final Fantasy V seems much more influential to the genre from an outside perspective.
If any Japan-Era member can give their view on this, it would be appreciated. Tagging KtSlime because I like his takes on stuff. lol
tho about the revolution point. I always think about this... is Chrono Trigger a western thing? I mean, I know it has fans in Japan as well, but is it considered this timeless masterpiece like it is in the west? I legit don't think too many games were influenced by it, Dragon Quest V and Final Fantasy V seems much more influential to the genre from an outside perspective.
If any Japan-Era member can give their view on this, it would be appreciated. Tagging KtSlime because I like his takes on stuff. lol
Chrono Trigger is a tad overrated.
And cross is vastly underrated.
Both are grest games though.
Shame square is too incompetent to make a proper 3rd (4th?) game in the series.
And cross is vastly underrated.
Both are grest games though.
Shame square is too incompetent to make a proper 3rd (4th?) game in the series.
At least on this poll from Famitsu in 2017, it was 3rd place behind Persona 5 and Dragon Quest III.
https://kotaku.com/poll-japans-favorite-role-playing-games-1797118585
Lmao, do you live in another world?
This forum has a new Chrono Cross thread like almost every month
I think there is an intangible aspect that can not be taken out of the equation... Time. Analyzing Chrono trigger now can make the game look less impacting, but back in the day, it was a huge step in console RPG genre... the graphics, animation during combat, art style, music, all these things combined created the perfect mood for one of a kind video game adventure... Even kids that where not into RPG would rent it quite often and play it... I think this is what makes Chrono stand as a mark for the genre. The impact it created back at the time it was released.
It's like when people criticise GTA IV for its issues, but forget the fact that on release it really was revolutionary. GTA4 on release was a bigger deal than RDR2.
honestly i dislike chrono cross as a game nevermind as a sequel to chrono trigger. the elemental system was very tedious for me and in a game with so many characters there are very few i ever cared for. loved the music and really wanted to enjoy it more. Every time i try to restart cross it just reminds me why i dont care for it shortly into the game.
whereas triggers battle system was simple, but was far less tedious for me, and i appreciated the tighter story and toghter cast much more.
whereas triggers battle system was simple, but was far less tedious for me, and i appreciated the tighter story and toghter cast much more.