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Edmond Dantès

It belongs in a museum!
Member
Aug 24, 2022
5,444
UK
dragonfly-inflight.jpg

(Artist's concept of Dragonfly soaring over the dunes of Saturn's moon Titan. NASA/Johns Hopkins APL/Steve Gribben)

Dragonfly will push the boundaries of engineering and science as it explores Titan.
NASA has formally approved the robotic Dragonfly mission for full development, committing to a revolutionary project to explore Saturn's largest moon with a quadcopter drone.

Agency officials announced the outcome of Dragonfly's confirmation review last week. This review is a checkpoint in the lifetime of most NASA projects and marks the moment when the agency formally commits to the final design, construction, and launch of a space mission. The outcome of each mission's confirmation review typically establishes a budgetary and schedule commitment.

"Dragonfly is a spectacular science mission with broad community interest, and we are excited to take the next steps on this mission," said Nicky Fox, associate administrator of NASA's science mission directorate. "Exploring Titan will push the boundaries of what we can do with rotorcraft outside of Earth."

In the case of Dragonfly, NASA confirmed the mission with a total lifecycle cost of $3.35 billion and a launch date of July 2028. That is roughly twice the mission's original proposed cost and a delay of more than two years from when the mission was originally selected in 2019, according to NASA.

Busting the cost cap:

Rising costs are not necessarily a surprise on a mission as innovative as Dragonfly. After reaching Titan, the eight-bladed rotorcraft lander will soar from place to place on Saturn's hazy moon, exploring environments rich in organic molecules, the building blocks of life.

Dragonfly will be the first mobile robot explorer to land on any other planetary body besides the Moon and Mars, and only the second flying drone to explore another planet. NASA's Ingenuity helicopter on Mars was the first. Dragonfly will be more than 200 times as massive as Ingenuity and will operate six times farther from Earth.

Despite its distant position in the cold outer Solar System, Titan appears to be reminiscent of the ancient Earth. A shroud of orange haze envelops Saturn's largest moon, and Titan's surface is covered with sand dunes and methane lakes.

Titan's frigid temperatures—hovering near minus 290° Fahrenheit (minus 179° Celsius)—mean water ice behaves like bedrock. NASA's Cassini spacecraft, which flew past Titan numerous times before its mission ended in 2017, discovered weather systems on the hazy moon. Observations from Cassini found evidence for hydrocarbon rains and winds that appear to generate waves in Titan's methane lakes.

Clearly, Titan is an exotic world. Most of what scientists know about Titan comes from measurements collected by Cassini and the European Space Agency's Huygens probe, which Cassini released to land on Titan in 2005. Huygens returned the first pictures from Titan's surface, but it only transmitted data for 72 minutes.
Dragonfly will explore Titan for around three years, flying tens of kilometers about once per month to measure the prebiotic chemistry of Titan's surface, study its soupy atmosphere, and search for biosignatures that could be indications of life. The mission will visit more than 30 locations within Titan's equatorial region, according to a presentation by Elizabeth Turtle, Dragonfly's principal investigator at the Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory.

"The Dragonfly mission is an incredible opportunity to explore an ocean world in a way that we have never done before," Turtle said in a statement. "The team is dedicated and enthusiastic about accomplishing this unprecedented investigation of the complex carbon chemistry that exists on the surface of Titan and the innovative technology bringing this first-of-its-kind space mission to life."

However, this high level of ambition comes at a high cost. NASA selected Dragonfly to proceed into initial development in 2019. Turtle's science team proposed Dragonfly to NASA through the agency's New Frontiers program, which has developed a series of medium-class Solar System exploration missions. The New Frontiers program has an impressive pedigree, beginning with the New Horizons mission that flew by Pluto in 2015, the Juno mission to Jupiter, and the OSIRIS-REx asteroid sample return mission.

Dragonfly's lifecycle cost of $3.35 billion will make it significantly more expensive than any of those missions.

When NASA chose Dragonfly in 2019, the mission had a cost cap of $850 million ($1 billion when adjusted for inflation) to get it to the launch pad. The budget limit didn't include the launch or costs to operate the Dragonfly spacecraft after launch. The costs originally under the budget cap have increased the $1 billion post-inflation figure to $2.1 billion, according to NASA.

Since 2019, NASA had to replan the Dragonfly mission multiple times due to funding constraints that limited how much the agency could spend on the project each fiscal year. Managers navigated the challenges imposed by the pandemic and supply chain issues. There was also an "in-depth design iteration," the agency said in a statement.

During this time, NASA directed managers in charge of Dragonfly to delay its launch from 2026 to 2027, which required the mission to change from a medium-lift to a heavy-lift launcher. As a result of this, NASA upped the funding for Dragonfly to pay for a bigger rocket. Dragonfly's updated launch window in July 2028 will still require a high-energy launch, likely on a SpaceX Falcon Heavy or a United Launch Alliance Vulcan rocket. NASA will likely select a launch provider for Dragonfly later this year.

Collectively, these pressures caused Dragonfly's lifecycle cost to grow to $3.35 billion, more in line with a flagship-class interplanetary mission than a cost-capped project. The two most recent New Frontiers missions came in between $1 billion and $1.5 billion, while Europa Clipper, NASA's next flagship planetary science probe, will cost around $5 billion.

NASA's commitment to Dragonfly also comes as the agency faces budget cuts. These reductions have hit the agency's planetary science division particularly hard. NASA is revamping plans for its big planetary flagship mission, Mars Sample Return, to try to rein in growing costs. The agency has postponed a call for scientists to propose concepts for the next New Frontiers mission that will follow Dragonfly.

Despite the higher costs, Dragonfly escaped cancellation. A major reason for this appears to be that NASA's budgetary limitations, and not any mismanagement from within the Dragonfly project, were responsible for a large share of the cost growth.

Assuming a launch in July 2028, Dragonfly will arrive at Titan in December 2034. Cocooned inside a heat shield and aeroshell, Dragonfly will enter Titan's atmosphere and deploy a parachute to slowly descend to the surface over the course of nearly two hours. Then, the quadcopter will settle onto the ground with its fixed landing skids.

At the surface, Titan's atmosphere is four times thicker than Earth's. This makes the process of getting to the ground a lot longer than a lander entering the atmosphere of Earth or Mars, but the higher air density should provide excellent flying conditions.
arstechnica.com

NASA officially greenlights $3.35 billion mission to Saturn’s moon Titan

Dragonfly will push the boundaries of engineering and science as it explores Titan.
science.nasa.gov

NASA’s Dragonfly Rotorcraft Mission to Saturn’s Moon Titan Confirmed - NASA Science

NASA has confirmed its Dragonfly rotorcraft mission to Saturn’s organic-rich moon Titan. The decision allows the mission to progress to completion of final design, followed by the construction and testing of the entire spacecraft and science instruments. “Dragonfly is a spectacular science...
 

Dan Thunder

Member
Nov 2, 2017
14,110
Fair play that's a bold mission. I mean getting a half ton drone to fly anywhere is a hell of an achievement, never mind a planet over 1bn kilometres away.

Just a shame that we won't know whether it's been a success for another decade.
 

WizdogC

Member
Oct 27, 2017
477
I'm assuming it'll take 6 years (from 2028 launch to 2034) because they're being economical with fuel and will probably rely more on planetary gravity slingshotting to Titan as opposed to just brute forcing it there. I wonder (hypothetically) how long it would take if the mission needed them to reach Titan asap after launching from Earth.
 

JediMasterMatt

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
599
Even NASA knows to stay away from Jupiter.

ALL THESE WORLDS ARE YOURS – EXCEPT EUROPA.
ATTEMPT NO LANDING THERE.
 

DieH@rd

Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,642
Titan is great place for drone flying.

Gravity is just 14% of Earth's and atmosphere is 4x denser.
 

Jubilant Duck

Member
Oct 21, 2022
5,993
genuinely more exciting to me than further Mars exploration

I expect that 2028 launch date to get pushed back though
 

MadMod

Member
Dec 4, 2017
2,777
"Assuming a launch in July 2028, Dragonfly will arrive at Titan in December 2034"

Why the fuck is space so large...
 

Version 3.0

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,261
This is one of the moons that might have life right? Hope we don't contaminate it.

I doubt that's much of a concern. Titan's environment isn't likely to be survivable by much, if any, Earth life, and that's after spending years in the vacuum and hard radiation of space. Not to mention a presumed slingshot through Jupiter's vicinity, to get cooked by its powerful radiation as well.

Anyway, this is a super exciting mission. I just wish they could go faster. I don't have very many 10-year waits left in me. Actually, I suppose none of us do.
 

Oozer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,845
By the time this launches, Starship will likely be operational. Possibly some other large-scale launch vehicles as well. So it might be possible to get there faster by then. We'll see if NASA is willing to bet on that, though, since they'll be choosing a launch provider later this year, according to the article.
 

MrHedin

Member
Dec 7, 2018
6,835
I doubt that's much of a concern. Titan's environment isn't likely to be survivable by much, if any, Earth life, and that's after spending years in the vacuum and hard radiation of space. Not to mention a presumed slingshot through Jupiter's vicinity, to get cooked by its powerful radiation as well.

Anyway, this is a super exciting mission. I just wish they could go faster. I don't have very many 10-year waits left in me. Actually, I suppose none of us do.

And this is how our future generations will have to defend themselves from giant tardigrades.
 

Volimar

volunteer forum janitor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,819
I'm always for more missions, but aren't they in a financial crunch trying to get samples back to Earth from another mission?
 

Jedi2016

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,818
Is it just the drone, or is there a rover too?

My immediate concern with any of these flying contraptions is what happens if it lands funny and falls over?
 

Horns

Member
Dec 7, 2018
2,567
Really excited for this but it will be a decade or longer before we get to the juicy part.
 

ArkhamFantasy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,568
Why would it matter if we contaminate it or not?

2 main problems

1.Its possible the life we bring will overtake or eliminate the natural life on the world

2.We won't know for sure if the life we find came from us or was born there

This is why they intentionally crashed Cassini into Saturn rather than risking the spacecraft contaminating titan or another potentially habitable moon
 

Laephis

Member
Jun 25, 2021
2,589
genuinely more exciting to me than further Mars exploration

I expect that 2028 launch date to get pushed back though
I know should set my expectations for this, but I'm hoping it's not the case - 10 years already feels like forever to me. Being on the back half of my life, I really want to be around for any breakthrough discoveries.
 
"Assuming a launch in July 2028, Dragonfly will arrive at Titan in December 2034"

Why the fuck is space so large...
You can get around the solar system much faster but it takes more fuel which means a bigger vehicle. These probes travel relatively slowly to save gas.

If you could accelerate then decelerate at a steady 1G of thrust, you could get from Earth to Saturn in about 8 days, I think.

If we become capable of using something like a nuclear powered spacecraft with constant ion thrust, the solar system really opens up.
 

jett

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,673
Sounds pretty ambitious. No doubt they'll get there after a couple of budget overruns and launch delays. Hopefully they do make it to Titan.
 

papertowel

Member
Nov 6, 2017
2,023
This is the moon that is confirmed to have H2o right?
Its surface temps and pressures allow for methane to be a liquid. So it has rain, rivers, and lakes, but made of methane instead of water. Scientists think Titan might have a subsurface ocean of liquid water, but we're learning that a lot of these moons in the outer solar system might have subsurface oceans. The moons that are most associated with those subsurface oceans are Europa (moon of Jupiter) and Enceladus (moon of Saturn)


Heres one of Titan's methane lakes compared to Lake Superior
PIA09184_-Titan_Sea_and_Lake_Superior.jpg
 

davepoobond

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,699
www.squackle.com
2 main problems

1.Its possible the life we bring will overtake or eliminate the natural life on the world

2.We won't know for sure if the life we find came from us or was born there

This is why they intentionally crashed Cassini into Saturn rather than risking the spacecraft contaminating titan or another potentially habitable moon

i guess it comes down to a sort of philosophy of what you think these planet's functions are supposed to be. for me, maybe I think of it differently than most(?) scientists would.

while #1 seems ethically important, i don't actually see why it matters if we overtake or eliminate the natural life on the world. scientifically, sure, of course we want to know what's there, but if we are looking to colonize or do anything with any of these planets, it is already a "given" that they will become contaminated. Not to mention there are space rocks and stuff flying into the atmosphere all of the time, so what's to say it hasn't been "contaminated" 15 times over by now?

#2 seems relevant but only up to a point. If we are looking to do anything but poke/prod these planets with experiments, it seems a bit inconsequential in the long run what exists there since we will need to change the planets to become hospitable for humans in some fashion. its only important because its close to us. If there's an infinite amount of planets/systems out there, do we need to be mindful about "contaminating" the entire universe?
 

eyeball_kid

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,258
Here's a succinct overview of the Dragonfly mission from The Planetary Society

Instruments aboard Dragonfly:
- Mass spectrometer that will be used to analyze ground-up soil while it's on the ground recharging its batteries (similar to what the Mars rovers do)
- Gamma ray and neutron spectrometer (DraGNS) for identifying soil composition as it flies over areas
- Meteorological sensors including a seismometer
- Multiple cameras, both microscopic and panoramic
- a few other instruments for analyzing Titan's interior and atmosphere

Sadly it doesn't include a mini-sub it can drop into a lake.

So excited for this mission! Titan is such a captivating moon.

Its surface temps and pressures allow for methane to be a liquid. So it has rain, rivers, and lakes, but made of methane instead of water. Scientists think Titan might have a subsurface ocean of liquid water, but we're learning that a lot of these moons in the outer solar system might have subsurface oceans. The moons that are most associated with those subsurface oceans are Europa (moon of Jupiter) and Enceladus (moon of Saturn)


Heres one of Titan's methane lakes compared to Lake Superior
PIA09184_-Titan_Sea_and_Lake_Superior.jpg

And here's a more bird's eye view of a shoreline of one of the lakes, via a stiched panorama of Huygens side camera shots
20120909_shoreline_pascal.jpg.webp
 

papertowel

Member
Nov 6, 2017
2,023
The discussion on contamination is important, but the Huygens lander has been sitting on Titan for 19 years. Its already contaminated!
 

ArkhamFantasy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,568
i guess it comes down to a sort of philosophy of what you think these planet's functions are supposed to be. for me, maybe I think of it differently than most(?) scientists would.

while #1 seems ethically important, i don't actually see why it matters if we overtake or eliminate the natural life on the world. scientifically, sure, of course we want to know what's there, but if we are looking to colonize or do anything with any of these planets, it is already a "given" that they will become contaminated. Not to mention there are space rocks and stuff flying into the atmosphere all of the time, so what's to say it hasn't been "contaminated" 15 times over by now?

#2 seems relevant but only up to a point. If we are looking to do anything but poke/prod these planets with experiments, it seems a bit inconsequential in the long run what exists there since we will need to change the planets to become hospitable for humans in some fashion. its only important because its close to us. If there's an infinite amount of planets/systems out there, do we need to be mindful about "contaminating" the entire universe?

"Is there life outside of earth?" Is one of the most important questions we have ever asked as a species, we don't even know how life formed on earth, if we were to find even microbes outside off earth it would instantly become one of the biggest scientific achievements in the history of mankind.

This is not something to hand wave away, and with all do respect there is not an infinite number of worlds for humanity, we will never leave this solar system, we've only left low earth orbit a few times half a century ago and are struggling to even do that again. The idea that we don't need to worry about contamination because we'll be inhabiting a world a billion miles away is not realistic.