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Skittles

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,257
Months ago, I had a single thought which I spoke of half-jokingly. And I really hoped it wouldn't be true this time around.

PgD6Lq5.png


Oh my sweet summer child, it was all of them

Now I'm positive I wasn't the only Black person who had this thought in the back of their mind before they started the game. Or hell, even years ago when the game was revealed. As the treatment of Black characters within the series was already worthy of side eye based on the first game alone. And I was really hoping that things would be different this time around. Much to my disappointment, that would not be the case at all.

Looking back on it, I should have expected as much considering what the team composition is like at the studio.
lbm5iptg5dp31.jpg


Which showcases an extremely common problem in all forms of media, where minorities hardly make up the composition of a creative team. And an even smaller percentage are allowed into lead roles where they can have an actual impact on how various projects are created. This lack of minority voices in media is just one of the many side effects that white supremacy has on myself and many others daily. In the case of this game, the lack of Black creatives ends up creating situations throughout TLOU2 which are ultimately harmful, racist, and anti-black.

Now while I don't necessarily have issues with a Black person dying within this universe. My qualms come from every single named Black person in the series dying. And since this is technically the third game in the series, it has formed a fairly consistent pattern. Which is a big fucking problem.

I knew that Nora was doomed as soon as she was on the "bad guys" side, but Issac was a mix of surprise and disappointment. I was like "oh shit, Issac is Black?" quickly followed by "oh no…Issac is Black". Fast forward to near the end of Abby's side and I'm thinking "oh shit, we may have someone actually live through one of these things". Nope, dude shows up again and my first thought is that he's about to die in this scene. Surprise surprise, he's shot several times by someone who should be dead. What's sad is that this train of thought really shouldn't be getting validated in 2020. In a way, it harkens back to bullshit like the "Black guy dies first" trope which plagued movies for decades.

Now back to how these deaths are for character development. In the case of Nora, her death represents Ellie "crossing the line" in terms of her revenge. And from there she spirals even further in her quest for revenge. In the case of Issac, it represents Abby breaking free from the Wolfs. Which is supposed to be a parallel to Lev severing his final tie to the religion with the death of his mom.

In the first game, Henry and Sam's deaths were a reminder to Ellie about her own morality and further strengthens her resolve to find the fireflies. For Marlene, her death was to show just how far Joel would go to protect Ellie. Which is a stark contrast to how he was prior to meeting her. In the case of Riley, her death was the start of Ellie's survivor's guilt.

Black people being used as catalysts for the character development of the white characters is just infuriating. As it feels like these people are less characters and more things to be thrown away when their purpose is fulfilled. Since at no point with any of the Black characters did I feel like they actually had something substitutional to contribute to the plot. Rather they were steppingstones for other (white) characters within the series to progress THEIR stories. Which is a terrible thing for your Black characters to go through, since none of their stories feel like their own. For example, there was really no reason to get rid Sam/Henry when Jackson was literally in the next fucking scene. It just felt like trauma for trauma's sake. Their story didn't have to end at that point, they could have lived in Jackson doing their own thing. Yet, Black characters are not allowed to have character arcs in this series. Instead, there is only enough backstory given to make you feel sad/bad when they die. It's this kind of dehumanization that is rampant throughout the series is one of the main reasons I feel anti-blackness permeates throughout naughty dog.



Now this scene is especially egregious. If you told me anyone except a white woman wrote this, I would be absolutely shocked. As the way this scene is framed is drenched in white women fears of Black men, dating back to before the jim crow era (with it really coming to a head with "The Birth of a Nation"). An extremely tall (pegging him at like 6'9" because Abby is at least 5'9"), muscular, and seemingly unstoppable Black man? I've seen this song and dance plenty of times and it's always infuriating. It's made even worse because he's lit in such way that he's shadow-like, never really seeing his features until you start brutally goring him. In fact, out of all the deaths in the game, this is easily the most brutal and it's just some unnamed Black guy. Whose framed in a monstrous way because you continuously maim the dude and yet he just keeps getting back up like nothing happened. And unlike other death scenes in the game, you are in complete control of what you're doing to this person.

Black men and women are physically stereotyped in many contexts — described as "natural" athletes instead of "intelligent" ones, for example, or able to bear inordinate amounts of pain and suffering in depictions in entertainment and pop culture.

People consistently perceive black men to be bigger and more muscular than they actually are — and as more of a threat — than they do white men of the same size, a new study shows.
[LATimes]

Personally, I couldn't believe what I was seeing while I played through this scene. The whole time I was thinking "holy fuck, the optics here are dreadful" and it just kept getting worse as it played out. Since I'm witnessing what's essentially the The Brute caricature play out in a modern day AAA game, and that is truly disgusting.

The brute caricature portrays black men as innately savage, animalistic, destructive, and criminal -- deserving punishment, maybe death. This brute is a fiend, a sociopath, an anti-social menace. Black brutes are depicted as hideous, terrifying predators who target helpless victims, especially white women

[Jim Crow Museum]

(this stereotype was also used by man who is equally terrible with anything race related Heavy Rain)

Stereotypes like this were used liberally during the 1900s to dehumanize Black men so they could more easily be controlled or disposed of. And those stereotypes are still (clearly) present to this day. So, seeing media perpetuate those stereotypes which only harm Black people is maddening. Since these are the kind of stereotypes people internalize and then judge others upon. Resulting in things like excessive uses of force by cops (and others), discrimination, fear, etc. The author of that scene (and other people on the team) has some anti-blackness embedded within their thought processes they need to acknowledge, deconstruct, and work through.


Now to switch gears for a second



DON"T THINK I FORGOT ABOUT YOU UNCHARTED

LauraNadineUncharted.jpg


We'll get to this in a second. Uncharted as a series has always had terrible optics. A white man (and his white pals) goes around the world stealing from cultures and blasting brown people? And there's not a single Black protag until the 5[SUP]th[/SUP] game in the series. And even then, you cast a white woman to voice her? It's that last bit which is the important part, since it shows another way ND has been anti-black. As it demonstrates a lack of caring that a Black woman is voiced by a white woman. No really, Neil did not give a shit and it wasn't even on his mind for months.

"I was like, this is awesome. How often do you see a character of color like this that's ripped, and I was like, this also is Nadine. And somebody on the team said, well, you know have a white actor and it's a black character, are you sure you want to do that? You're inviting controversy," Druckmann shared.

He considered his options and put the final decision on the look of the character on hold while the team continued to work on the game. Months later, he came to the realization that within the game, Nadine was what he envisioned.
[Gamecrate]

He had plenty of time to recast her once they decided she would be Black; let's be honest though, was she really gonna end up a different race being from South Africa? Yet this dissonance was not important enough in his mind for him to correct it (someone even warned him about it too). And it's that lack of caring which shows you a lot about someone. One would think that properly handling your FIRST major Black character within your megahit blockbuster franchise would be a priority, but not for Neil it seems. Instead of boosting a talented Black or South African VA (which did audition for the role), we are once again subjected to the trifecta of whiteness that plagues numerous AAA games on the VA side.

Not like Laura's response was much better than Neil's though. It can be summed up as "it's either this or nothing negroes!". She didn't even consider that she should be (at least vocally) recast at that point. Which is just another case of apathy during development.

But at that point, what's worse? Choose that beautiful design the artist created knowing there could be backlash because they had already cast a non-black actress? Or change the design entirely out of fear and lose the opportunity to have a strong character of color in the game? I guess I don't know if there's a right answer to that.
https://www.playstationlifestyle.net/2016/02/09/laura-bailey-responds-uncharted-4-casting-controversy/][PlaystationLifestyle][/url]

These repeated catastrophic handlings of anything relating to race within their games and outside of them, have led me to labeling Naughty Dog as anti-black. Which makes me extremely weary of any other title they'll put out in the future. They have a hell of a long road ahead of themselves for redemption. In conclusion though, (and I cannot stress this enough) do better.
 

Spring-Loaded

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,904
That brutish giant black guy (who was exceptionally reasliant to pain) was what pushed it beyond reasonable doubt for me
 

Weiss

User requested ban
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Oct 25, 2017
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I've only played TLOU1 but this thread reminded me that all four black characters in that game exist for some violent white person's character development.
 

Akainu

Unshakable Resolve
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,242
Everywhere and nowhere
Damn worse than the brothers and firefly leader? Does the asian dude make it?

edit: forgot about the dlc didn't play it. but there is that black girl too.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,517
He had plenty of time to recast her once they decided she would be Black; let's be honest though, was she really gonna end up a different race being from South Africa? Yet this dissonance was not important enough in his mind for him to correct it (someone even warned him about it too). And it's that lack of caring which shows you a lot about someone. One would think that properly handling your FIRST major Black character within your megahit blockbuster franchise would be a priority, but not for Neil it seems. Instead of boosting a talented Black or South African VA (which did audition for the role), we are once again subjected to the trifecta of whiteness that plagues numerous AAA games on the VA side.

Not like Laura's response was much better than Neil's though. It can be summed up as "it's either this or nothing negroes!". She didn't even consider that she should be (at least vocally) recast at that point. Which is just another case of apathy during development.

I still can't get past the whole Nadine thing. Like every angle I approach it from I just have no way of justifying it.

Like Laura Bailey is a talented voice actress. But her accent for Nadine wasn't very good, and she brought nothing to the character that a black or South African actress could've matched or even exceeded. There was no benefit to her being in the game beyond "we want to work with this actress we like using".

Neil fucked up, and it really disappointed me then and it still disappoints me now.
 

Spinluck

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
28,429
Chicago
The white male fragility displayed when Joel got merked was hilarious. Meanwhile all the black characters got slaughtered to make the main characters "better people."

Pair that with the Nadine stuff and yeah...

Gamers in a nutshell.
 

Dance Inferno

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,999
Yeah this game's handling of minorities in general was questionable, but that fight scene at the end with Scar's brother was especially jarring for all the reasons you mentioned.
 
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Tagg

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt-account
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Oct 25, 2017
2,717
I disagree about your complaint that the black characters only exist as catalysts for white character development. The same is true of every character that isn't Ellie or Abby (regardless of race or gender).

In regards to Scar's brother, they also have those gigantic white muscle-laden dudes waving hammers around. Scar's brother is black likely for the sake of diversity.
 

Nepenthe

When the music hits, you feel no pain.
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Oct 25, 2017
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Just dropping in to let you all know to behave yourselves. I'm working hard today, but I'm always watching Wachowski. Always watching.
 

Deleted member 2761

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Yup, the biggest detractor of my experience is how the white girl revenge quest goes through a host of yellow, brown, and black bodies without apology. I legitimately waited for several minutes in the "press square to brain Nora" scene because I thought that maybe it was some sort of big brain "maybe I've gone too far" sort of moment but no, the game is high off its own pretentiousness and wants you to feel bad and emotionally connect with Ellie as she tortures a dying Black woman.
 

jjreamPop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,134
I disagree about your complaint that the black characters only exist as catalysts for white character development. The same is true of every character that isn't Ellie or Abby (regardless of race or gender).

In regards to Scar's brother, they also have those gigantic white muscle-laden dudes waving hammers around. Scar's brother is black likely for the sake of diversity.

Maybe the main characters shouldn't all be white.
 

Weiss

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I disagree about your complaint that the black characters only exist as catalysts for white character development. The same is true of every character that isn't Ellie or Abby (regardless of race or gender).

It's a problem that every person exists for some violent white person's character development, particularly when the only meaningful black representation in the game is through the victims of the protagonist's violence.
 

Convasse

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,813
Atlanta, GA, USA
I disagree about your complaint that the black characters only exist as catalysts for white character development. The same is true of every character that isn't Ellie or Abby (regardless of race or gender).

In regards to Scar's brother, they also have those gigantic white muscle-laden dudes waving hammers around. Scar's brother is black likely for the sake of diversity.
In light of the carefully outlined reasons why a black brute is extremely problematic in terms of American representation, I can't accept an "it was for diversity" explanation. Even the large Scar woman we fought as Abby with Lev and Yara didn't go out like that. It was bombastic and overblown and gruesome. In the context of what was happening at the moment in the game, it worked. But again, it failed because of the connotations.
 

uncledonnie

Member
Oct 26, 2017
574
I disagree about your complaint that the black characters only exist as catalysts for white character development. The same is true of every character that isn't Ellie or Abby (regardless of race or gender).

In regards to Scar's brother, they also have those gigantic white muscle-laden dudes waving hammers around. Scar's brother is black likely for the sake of diversity.

I mean if you really believe the bolded it seems to contradict everything else you are saying.
 

The Adder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,087
I disagree about your complaint that the black characters only exist as catalysts for white character development. The same is true of every character that isn't Ellie or Abby (regardless of race or gender).

In regards to Scar's brother, they also have those gigantic white muscle-laden dudes waving hammers around. Scar's brother is black likely for the sake of diversity.
I appreciate your contribution to my list of people whose posts I know I can skip in advance. Thank you.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
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Oct 25, 2017
115,517
I also like how the giant hulking black dude, despite being very clearly framed as a boss fight and a major event, doesn't even show a name in the subtitles. His name is just Seraphite. He has no identity, no goals, no drive, just a generic enemy to be shredded by the player like some kind of monster.

Wait, did I say I like that? I mean I absolutely bloody hate it.

Yup, the biggest detractor of my experience is how the white girl revenge quest goes through a host of yellow, brown, and black bodies without apology. I legitimately waited for several minutes in the "press square to brain Nora" scene because I thought that maybe it was some sort of big brain "maybe I've gone too far" sort of moment but no, the game is high off its own pretentiousness and wants you to feel bad and emotionally connect with Ellie as she tortures a dying Black woman.

And people give me side-eye for skipping TLOU2. I don't have the stomach for torture scenes, and racially-coded torture/execution scenes are even worse.
 

Kotto

CEO of Traphouse Networks
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Nov 3, 2017
4,466
The white male fragility displayed when Joel got merked was hilarious. Meanwhile all the black characters got slaughtered to make the main characters "better people."

Pair that with the Nadine stuff and yeah...

Gamers in a nutshell.
That's another thing that is fascinating too. We see this thread and all the bullshit ND has done and you don't get the same response as we did for Joel even though Joel (regardless of how he's portrayed) doomed humanity for his selfish reasons.
 

Mass_Pincup

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,127
Ever since people defended the whole Nadine debacle, I learn that most people don't give a shit about real representation of black people in ND games.

You could've given them reasonable doubt after the brothers in TLOU, but then you add Left Behind, Uncharted 4 and TLOU part 2 and you notice a clear pattern. Especially when that's the only way black people are depicted in their games.
 

skillzilla81

Self-requested temporary ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,043
I disagree about your complaint that the black characters only exist as catalysts for white character development. The same is true of every character that isn't Ellie or Abby (regardless of race or gender).

In regards to Scar's brother, they also have those gigantic white muscle-laden dudes waving hammers around. Scar's brother is black likely for the sake of diversity.

Kinda speaks to a lack of diversity in the room when you don't see how putting in a large black man reads for that fight if you're doing it "for diversity's sake."

And, you know, that works with literally everything else in ND's games.
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,487
Yup, the biggest detractor of my experience is how the white girl revenge quest goes through a host of yellow, brown, and black bodies without apology. I legitimately waited for several minutes in the "press square to brain Nora" scene because I thought that maybe it was some sort of big brain "maybe I've gone too far" sort of moment but no, the game is high off its own pretentiousness and wants you to feel bad and emotionally connect with Ellie as she tortures a dying Black woman.
It's the oppsoite. You aren't supposed to connect with Ellie there, you are supposed to feel very uncomfortable with Ellie going down that path.
edit-not in any way discrediting this in regards to the amount of black characters killed. Just felt like this scene wasn't specific, but it shouldn't have been another black character there.
 
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Spinluck

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
28,429
Chicago
That's another thing that is fascinating too. We see this thread and all the bullshit ND has done and you don't get the same response as we did for Joel even though Joel (regardless of how he's portrayed) doomed humanity for his selfish reasons.

Wonder if we get the same response if Ellie was a black girl. Most likely not. That said, it's funny how that development didn't work for them when it was Joel that got clapped.
 

Order

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,465
Playing TLOU2 I couldn't believe that they did it again

Black people are apparently not good enough to make it through one TLOU game
 

Sparks

Senior Games Artist
Verified
Dec 10, 2018
2,879
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I disagree about your complaint that the black characters only exist as catalysts for white character development. The same is true of every character that isn't Ellie or Abby (regardless of race or gender).

In regards to Scar's brother, they also have those gigantic white muscle-laden dudes waving hammers around. Scar's brother is black likely for the sake of diversity.
Yeaaa, unfortunately they made the story about Joel and Ellie, which then meant every character that isn't named Joel and Ellie are dispensable and only a tool used to push their story forward. It's how most stories about brutality, apocalyptic times and death/revenge are. Then the sequel replaces Joel with Abby and continues to make the story revolve around them.
 

Davilmar

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,264
As a Black gamer, the thought was on my subconscious but I could never really articulate what you frames brilliantly. I didn't know whether it was intentional or just coincidence, but the final boss on the island with Abby pushed this over the edge. The Nadine debacle in Uncharted 4 was still bewildering, and made no damn sense.
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,487
Okay?

Like this isn't the thread for "actually it's supposed to make you uncomfortable."
I didn't say it was. I understand the issues in hand, was just responding to that.

edit- we have talked about this in spoiler threads before. I'm not handwaving anything, along with issues some had with Lev and the aspects relating to trans characters.

I even said multiple times I hope the next the ND character is black and maybe even gay. ND isn't perfect in every area in regards to progressiveness, but improving. This is one spot they will need to be better with for sure.
 
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Couscous

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Oct 30, 2017
6,089
Twente (The Netherlands)
Yup, the biggest detractor of my experience is how the white girl revenge quest goes through a host of yellow, brown, and black bodies without apology. I legitimately waited for several minutes in the "press square to brain Nora" scene because I thought that maybe it was some sort of big brain "maybe I've gone too far" sort of moment but no, the game is high off its own pretentiousness and wants you to feel bad and emotionally connect with Ellie as she tortures a dying Black woman.
The last sentence is literally not true though. The game wants you to feel bad and emotionally disconnect from Ellie during that moment in the game. After that moment Ellie also knew she went too far.
 

KOfLegend

Member
Jun 17, 2019
1,794
When I (a black man) expressed my disappointment with how black people were treated in TLOU Pt II in one of the game's threads, where they collectively have less than maybe 5 minutes of screentime? Less? and are killed for shock value or before they have any type of development I was basically told it wasn't a real issue, and that it was to show how "expendable" characters are. That's fine, but when every single black character is killed off in both games there's an issue there. I let it go because I wasn't in the mood for arguing, but I started avoiding TLOU Pt II threads after that.

It's frustrating to see the game get praised and get called the best game of all time (I liked it well enough to give it 5/5 on Backloggd, mind you) when there's, imo, some VERY OBVIOUS fuckery going on when it comes to black people (and asian people too, to be honest). People just don't fucking care.

Edit: and bam, there it is.
We just gonna forget the time Abby bit off the ear and brutally murdered the brutish white ogre woman mid boss in the rain? How is that different from the island escape. I mean... almost everyone dies in this game aside from the two people thrusting it forward.
 
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Ariesfirebomb

Member
Jul 3, 2018
541
Minneapolis
ALL OF THIS!

Naughty dog is my favorite developer but we can't ignore any of this. I even tweeted Craig Mazin that I hope they do better by their Black and Brown characters in the show.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
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Oct 25, 2017
115,517
As a Black gamer, the thought was on my subconscious but I could never really articulate what you frames brilliantly. I didn't know whether it was intentional or just coincidence, but the final boss on the island with Abby pushed this over the edge. The Nadine debacle in Uncharted 4 was still bewildering, and made no damn sense.

The fact Neil apparently waffled for months about Nadine's decision only to convince himself later that he was right all along and didn't need to change anything speaks to someone who's conscious enough of the problematic elements of the behavior he's taking part in, but not willing to actually do anything about it. Which is almost worse, really.

I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong to put all of it on his shoulders, but he's the common thread through all the Naughty Dog games that include this kind of problematic stuff.
 

Vire

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,591
User Banned (Permanent): Dismissing concerns around race representation; prior bans, including a severe one, for dismissive commentary around bigotry and representation.
We just gonna forget the time Abby bit off the ear and brutally murdered the brutish white ogre woman mid boss in the rain? How is that different from the island escape. I mean... almost everyone dies in this game aside from the two people thrusting it forward.
 

Kyuuji

The Favonius Fox
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Nov 8, 2017
32,024
Good post and it's all facts. For as much as I like the game there's no denying the points raised and even while playing the Scar scene in question it felt awkward and racist. Reminded me immediately of Birth of a Nation as you say, and it's prolonged beyond the point of making any sense. It feels out of place (insofar as the fight/moment itself, not the anti-blackness of it) which only serves to highlight the question of what the need for it was.

I haven't played Uncharted so don't have the context but it isn't really needed when you raise Neil being award of the issue and moving ahead despite it. Very poor and works to solidify the impression throughout their IP's. Hopefully this gets through to them and they work to create a meaningful experience that's inclusive of Black characters, giving them focus and more depth than the shooting range pop-ups we've seen so far.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
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Oct 25, 2017
115,517
We just gonna forget the time Abby bit off the ear and brutally murdered the brutish white ogre woman mid boss in the rain? How is that different from the island escape. I mean... almost everyone dies in this game aside from the two people thrusting it forward.

That's...kind of part of the problem? Characters of color aren't allowed to exist in the Last of Us' world except to push a couple of white people's personal character arcs forward.
 

Weiss

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We just gonna forget the time Abby bit off the ear and brutally murdered the brutish white ogre woman mid boss in the rain? How is that different from the island escape. I mean... almost everyone dies in this game aside from the two people thrusting it forward.

White people get to be a lot more than props for other white people's character development, unlike how media has consistently failed everyone else.
 

Deleted member 5086

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We just gonna forget the time Abby bit off the ear and brutally murdered the brutish white ogre woman mid boss in the rain? How is that different from the island escape. I mean... almost everyone dies in this game aside from the two people thrusting it forward.
Every time there's a thread about representation issues, I always see you downplaying the concerns. Maybe don't do that.
 

Order

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,465
We just gonna forget the time Abby bit off the ear and brutally murdered the brutish white ogre woman mid boss in the rain? How is that different from the island escape. I mean... almost everyone dies in this game aside from the two people thrusting it forward.
Yeah you didn't read the OP at all

I wish all the Ellie avatars could take a minute to stop defending this game
 

Jeffram

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Oct 29, 2017
3,924
User banned (2 weeks): Dismissive and condescending rhetoric about concerns of racism
OP I think there is some valid criticisms you are raising but when you say stuff like:

"I should have expected as much considering what the team composition is like at the studio."
"If you told me anyone except a white woman wrote this, I would be absolutely shocked."

It brings into question your own ability to come in with a fair and balanced take.

I'm sure it's not easy telling such a vast story, being inclusive of many non sexualized female characters, trans characters, gay characters, bi characters, and with multiple races represented flawlessly, and Naughty Dog Certainly missed the mark in places that you've raised. BUT, I think TLOU2 is an overall step in the right direction for diversity and inclusion that most games don't even attempt to take, especially in the AAA space.
 

Betty

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Oct 25, 2017
17,604
We just gonna forget the time Abby bit off the ear and brutally murdered the brutish white ogre woman mid boss in the rain? How is that different from the island escape. I mean... almost everyone dies in this game aside from the two people thrusting it forward.

I think TLOU2 is the best game ever made, it's astonishing.

But you gotta admit it's a tiny bit odd how in the first game all the black characters die, petty brutally too, and in the sequel all the black characters die, also brutally, one by being tortured to death.

And that fight with the cultist did feel a bit ridiculous, the fights you have with other burly cultists don't come even close to how resistant that black guy was.

Yeah a lot of characters don't make it out of these games but... it's weird how none of the black characters do at all.

Nadine would've at least been the counter to this since she did get out of her game, both of them, but having her be voiced by a white woman wasn't a good look.
 

Carn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,911
The Netherlands
Good topic OP. Disclaimer; I'm a white guy, and I'll be honest that I haven't really thought about this topic much while playing these games, but the big muscely black guy 'fight' in TLOU2 did register as "wait a second: Why is this gruesome 'boss battle' with a big black guy?' which I didnt found fitting when i played it. I think you have done a good job explaining the issue at hand. On a personal note I hope I'll be more aware of these type of things. I dont think there are nefarious reasons at play here, but it makes you wonder if they focusgroup-tested these type of things.
 

Vire

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,591
That's...kind of part of the problem? Characters of color aren't allowed to exist in the Last of Us' world except to push a couple of white people's personal character arcs forward.
Oh then, I must have entirely missed the point of the OP. That is a criticism that can be layed at literally almost every game.

I hope the next game they make does consider main controllable protagonists of color.
 

Kotto

CEO of Traphouse Networks
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Nov 3, 2017
4,466
We just gonna forget the time Abby bit off the ear and brutally murdered the brutish white ogre woman mid boss in the rain? How is that different from the island escape. I mean... almost everyone dies in this game aside from the two people thrusting it forward.
Man's made a whole thread detailing anti-blackness in ND's games since UC1 and you pulling whataboutism for one nonstereotypical enemy fight.
 

Deleted member 4353

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Oct 25, 2017
5,559
This is a good topic and boy do I agree with you so much. lol. The Nadine one always bothered me, always. i remember when it was announced in the original U4 topic and peeps here were defending it.

Im not done with TLOU2 yet but the Nora and Jessie scenes bothered me.

You make great points.
 
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