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nib95

Contains No Misinformation on Philly Cheesesteaks
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,498
I'm referring to that recent spat with J Schreier. Druckmann didn't specifically say those word, yes, but Barlog went in to the conversation and said "I know it's your job to tear us [industry figures] down," in response to Schreier's rhetoric. Of course Druckmann may not 100% agree but considering the circumstances and the fact that he didn't call out Barlog for saying that (when the entire thread was built around randomly calling out people publicly instead of just sticking to DMs) I can't help but find that he agrees in spirit. In the end any major figure in any industry who has a hostile relationship with journalists is going to be suspect, and that doesn't stop just because Druckmann makes amazing games and is otherwise a really good guy. There needs to be evidence to the contrary, really, because in the end Naughty Dog is still one of the most crunch-filled studios out there and that's not conjecture or anything similar.

I know, but as I said above I'm not exactly going to leave Druckmann off the hook considering the circumstances there. That comment referred to the general feeling I get when I see how Druckmann has responded to figures like J Schreier, and I've yet to see any true evidence to the contrary.

I'm not going to engage with you if you feel that publicly trying to accuse me of consistently lying is the best course of action. Please do not reply to this post.

All I've done is call you out on this disingenuous behaviour of yours that you're doing again in this very thread, and stating a matter of fact, not opinion. Your weak excuse to justify it really doesn't cut it.

My advice would be to simply stop implying he or others said things they've never said, and then you won't get called out for it?

Like I said, this isn't even the most egregious example of you doing this with respect to Druckmannn, since in a previous thread you implied Druckmann was refering to Jason as a "hysterical Jew" and "hysterical manbaby" , both these phrases, again you put in quotation marks as if Druckmann himself said it, when he said or implied nothing of the sort.

Frankly, I thought Era was better than this. No need to fuel narratives with misinformation and falsities. It only damages your own arguments.
 

Astandahl

Member
Oct 28, 2017
9,040
a4gPv7R.jpg
 

Deleted member 23965

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
301
How the heck can Schreier bully a large, successful game studio and its fans???

The Schindler's List comparison was remarkably tone deaf and tacky, especially considering what that movie is about and what it means to a particular community.
Neil also belongs to said community and didn't feel that the analogy hurt his community. He also admirably displayed the nuance needed to interpret the intent of the tweet instead of viciously jumping on the reviewer for what at most is harmless hyperbole without any malice. I would like to know is Jason the sole custodian of how this community should feel or are other members allowed to think and feel for themselves?
 

Dyle

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
30,201
Good for him and the studio, they deserve the right to celebrate the completion of the project. However I hope that he will do a better job listening and responding to legitimate critiques about the game and the process of making it in addition to laughing at idiotic conspiracy theories.
 

TyraZaurus

Member
Nov 6, 2017
4,468
Neil also belongs to said community and didn't feel that the analogy hurt his community. He also admirably displayed the nuance needed to interpret the intent of the tweet instead of viciously jumping on the reviewer for what at most is harmless hyperbole without any malice. I would like to know is Jason the sole custodian of how this community should feel or are other members allowed to think and feel for themselves?

I know one of the people who protested that comment; they were Jewish. Are they being a bully for taking offense, given what that film represents? And it wasn't even a serious harranguing. Just calling it out as unnecessary and hyperbolic.
 

Rover_

Member
Jun 2, 2020
5,211
The response to the review bombing is amazing lol

Joel sprinkling salt on the haters is my soulmate.
 
May 31, 2018
985
Pretty cool. He has something very special in this medium. It's pretty awesome when you see the results of a team firing on all cylinders and max potential too. That whole studio is like a Ferrari V12 that is running at its peak 24/7. We are lucky to have people dedicated to their craft like this.
 

TheXbox

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 29, 2017
6,587
Good for him, but if it was me I would've snapped a long time ago. It's kinda bullshit that creatives need to accept pissbaby gamer rage with saintly gentility!
 

Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,961
Whatever it takes is his attitude.



The "tear us down" quote is from Barlog, during a thread in which Druckmann was taking offense to the fact that people made fun of the comparison a reviewer made of TLOU2 with Schindler's List.


I just read the entirety of this beef...it's all dumb. I like Bob Mackey, I like Jason Schreier, I listen to both their podcasts. I like Neil Druckmann and Cory Barlog, I like their games. All of these tweets are fucking stupid. The only person I don't know from all this is Jeff Canatta, and his original take that sparked this was ALSO kind of dumb, but like...he was comparing TLOU2 to Schindler's List the same way people compared the first game to Citizen Kane. Is that a kind of silly comparison? Yes, but so is criticizing someone for making that comparison as 'offensive to the holocaust' and then proceeding to make a bunch of game/holocaust media comparison jokes. Like why did any of this happen? They all just look like fools now
 

Deleted member 42055

User requested account closure
Banned
Apr 12, 2018
11,215
yeah, I'm not sure what we are supposed to be praising here.

he brushes off idiotic criticisms of his successful games. Okay Cool I guess, would be nice if his studio didn't have to endure horrible crunch or if he, yknow, made changes at his studio instead of dunking on the people reporting on the conditions there.

some people on this board love doing Sony PR for them

Right? I'm glad it's being called out, so transparent
 

Ctrl Alt Del

Banned
Jun 10, 2018
4,312
Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
Something like this can easily tear a person down, it can be demoralizing to see your work being taken over in this way, especially one clearly intended for people to discuss and experience in a communal way. I thought it was refreshing to see him react like this, against these toxic pieces of shit, just like how Rian Johnson deal with fan reception to TLJ.
I won't equate Druckmann to Johnson because, as far as we know, Johnson didn't push the studio to crunch during TLJ's production. The game doesn't deserve to be dunked on by alt right idiots but I'm not going out of my way to defend Druckmann either.
 

Astandahl

Member
Oct 28, 2017
9,040
  1. Created crunch
  2. Fired Amy Hennig
  3. Fired Bruce Straley because he didn't allow him to kill Elena in Uncharted 2
  4. Fired every senior developer at Naughty Dog to replace them with juniors
  5. Put himself into a game
  6. Created "Shoulders Gate"
  7. Went against the greatest journalist of all time on twitter
  8. Creative director of TLOU 1 and 2

The Goat?
 

Deleted member 23965

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
301
I know one of the people who protested that comment; they were Jewish. Are they being a bully for taking offense, given what that film represents? And it wasn't even a serious harranguing. Just calling it out as unnecessary and hyperbolic.

Was Neil being a bully in replying to Jason, was Cory? They just politely disagreed qualified their points and moved on. If Jason was not being a bully, neither were Neil or Cory. I would say they were far more polite and come across as more mature and balanced than Jason (who viciously jumped on the reviewer, instead of exhibiting a modicum of decency and empathy) in this twitter exchange.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,240
  1. Created crunch
  2. Fired Amy Hennig
  3. Fired Bruce Straley because he didn't allow him to kill Elena in Uncharted 2
  4. Fired every senior developer at Naughty Dog to replace them with juniors
  5. Put himself into a game
  6. Created "Shoulders Gate"
  7. Went against the greatest journalist of all time on twitter
  8. Creative director of TLOU 1 and 2

The Goat?
Kojima officially dethroned.
 

Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,961
I know one of the people who protested that comment; they were Jewish. Are they being a bully for taking offense, given what that film represents? And it wasn't even a serious harranguing. Just calling it out as unnecessary and hyperbolic.
No, of course not. FWIW I don't think Jason was being a bully at all. However, Jason and Bob then immediately engaged in the very thing they were saying was offensive though, which like...why?
 
Jun 12, 2018
498

Rosebud

Two Pieces
Member
Apr 16, 2018
44,108
Let's see if every Cyberpunk 2077 thread will be filled with crunch "concern".

RDR 2 threads sure ain't.
 

TyraZaurus

Member
Nov 6, 2017
4,468
Was Neil being a bully in replying to Jason, was Cory? They just politely disagreed qualified their points and moved on. If Jason was not being a bully, neither were Neil or Cory. I would say they were far more polite and come across as more mature and balanced than Jason (who viciously jumped on the reviewer, instead of exhibiting a modicum of decency and empathy) in this twitter exchange.

Reducing Jason and his colleagues to only trying to tear them down is, to me, incredibly reductive of them as journalists and shows they're not even willing to entertain their concerns whatsoever.
 

Uzupedro

Banned
May 16, 2020
12,234
Rio de Janeiro
You are not going to change a thing about it. It's human nature to work on passion projects.
I am not saying that me alone could change anything, and I don't even think there could be a big change in this matter, in fact it is PART of the production of the work, but sure it could be mitigate if these studios are pressed enough to do so.
The welfare of employees can be improved and I don't know what is absurd about it.
 

jph139

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,450
I find these sorts of tweets corny as fuck but I suppose there's far worse sins.
 

Deleted member 3294

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,973
So about the "abuser of characters' shoulder" thing: that used to just plainly say "abuser of characters". Which...... gross.
 

Rosebud

Two Pieces
Member
Apr 16, 2018
44,108

Hailinel

Shamed a mod for a tag
Member
Oct 27, 2017
35,527
I'll praise him when he fixes Naughty Dog's crunch issues. I'm not going to give him unique accolades for dunking on Twitter idiots.
 

Deleted member 4532

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,936
Random question: when a AAA studio finishes up a major project like this, do they go on vacation or something or do they move on to the next project?

I loved this game and fully aware of the awful crunch that went into the making of this game. I just hope the employees get something after all of this.
 
Dec 26, 2019
402
I am not saying that me alone could change anything, and I don't even think there could be a big change in this matter, in fact it is PART of the production of the work, but sure it could be mitigate if these studios are pressed enough to do so.
The welfare of employees can be improved and I don't know what is absurd about it.
Nothing's absurd about trying to improve working conditions, but people who claim there can be games like TLOU2 without crunch never saw a game production from the inside. Have you ever worked on anything with a deadline? When did you do most of the work?
 

SpaceCrystal

Banned
Apr 1, 2019
7,714
Pretty much this. Review bombs on metacritic and Amazon just highlight how shitty most user review systems are. You've got tons of negative user reviews before anyone could have possibly beat the game.

I mean what's the point of being annoyed by white nationalist nut jobs when you just released a critical and sales behemoth. And when it's beyond obvious that the vast majority of the people who hate the game hate the game because something something black, lesbian, SJW stuff.

Hell if anything I'd be basking in being part of a team that could enrage those people and be super successful at the same time.

I agree. The same thing happened with both Black Panther & Captain Marvel when those movies came out. Both of them have made Marvel over a billion worldwide regardless of the RWNJ's hating them.
 
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Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,961
Was Neil being a bully in replying to Jason, was Cory? They just politely disagreed qualified their points and moved on. If Jason was not being a bully, neither were Neil or Cory. I would say they were far more polite and come across as more mature and balanced than Jason (who viciously jumped on the reviewer, instead of exhibiting a modicum of decency and empathy) in this twitter exchange.
Yes I think Cory Barlog coming into this debacle and accusing Jason Schreier of 'trying to tear developers down' is bullying, it's an obvious attempt to use his large platform and reputation as an award winning developer to silence Jason's reporting.
 

Plum

Member
May 31, 2018
17,329
Feel free to bring up the crunch, just try not to paint Naughty Dog employees as a whole as victims. Many have expressed that they're not being killed by crunch as outsiders are saying they are. One even said that she might have to see her therapist because some are attacking the game she's proud to be working on out of some misguided attempt to protect them from crunch. You can look up the tweets if you want, they're somewhere in the other threads on this.

I think this is perhaps the greatest reason why a more open dialogue would be welcome here. The fact that nobody at the top of Naughty Dog has even acknowledged the crunch in any meaningful way despite it clearly happening to some level just makes things worse for everyone underneath them. There's the crunch still happening, of course, but like you said there's also the inevitable internet fuckery where the very strong feelings people have towards these games and these companies (both negative and positive) get intertwined with something that we should be looking at through a more objective lens.

Basically the fact that it's the rank-and-file developers who are hurting both when it comes to the crunch itself but also how the internet responds to said crunch should be a pretty clear sign that someone ain't doing things right here.
 

Nightengale

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,713
Malaysia
You know my favourite part about this whole debacle by far? /s

How "everyone" has normalized all the death threats and harassment that ND has received throughout this period of time because *insert reasons, crunch included*

Even with Neil taking this attitude and being able to make fun of the harassment he's recieving in stride, let's not forget or undermine the fact that many members of ND received and are still receiving hundreds if not thousands of anti-semitic slurs and death threats that were aimed not just at them, but even non-devs like actors who worked on the game.