Netflix Continues Your True-Crime Obsession with ‘The Staircase’ Trailer

[Deleted member 5167]

Also that woman on the prosecution with the grating accent was trying to make him out as a demon for having a relationship and anal sex with a man.

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Yeah, her closing statement hammering the words ANAL SEX made it clear what tack she was going for, but to the juries credit it seems like they were pretty evenly split and it came down to the (discredited) forensics to convince them of guilt in the end.

e:

Watched this with the GF last week. We both suspect that he didn't do it, but he's covering for whoever did (one of the kids maybe).

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Yooooooo that's probably JonBenét Ramsey (also a Netflix doc)

 

[Aarglefarg]

how did the victim get that kind of head lacerations anyway

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The defense's expert's viewpoint covered in the documentary was that splitting occurs in places that don't make contact with the floor/stairs, like when a watermelon hits the ground it breaks at more places than what made contact.

 

[Infernostew]

Watched this with the GF last week. We both suspect that he didn't do it, but he's covering for whoever did (one of the kids maybe).

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No one else was home. That's why he was the only suspect when the police determined to investigate Kathleen's death as a homicide.

Also, Kathleen's sisters are the worst.

 

[Ether_Snake]

The owl theory is supported by a lot of the evidence.

 

[darkwing]

they found owl feathers?

 

[Invisible Cities]

My first impression is that he definitely did it. Confirmed when we heard about the woman in Germany.

But this trial is clownshoes, and now I'm not so sure. (about 5 episodes in)

 

[siddx]

Yeah, her closing statement hammering the words ANAL SEX made it clear what tack she was going for, but to the juries credit it seems like they were pretty evenly split and it came down to the (discredited) forensics to convince them of guilt in the end.

e:


Yooooooo that's probably JonBenét Ramsey (also a Netflix doc)

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The family member theory was pretty much debunked. Evidence shows jon benet was killed by a male intruder that was not a family member. Most likely a child molester who knew her from her beauty pagents and broke in to rape and murder her.

 

[turtle553]

For anyone who watched the original stuff, don't bother with the "three new episodes"

Super boring and no interesting revelations.

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They're more about what it's like to plead guilty to something you didn't do just because of the risks and the prosecutor doesn't have as much to lose. A huge problem with the judicial system.

Also there were some reveals:

Spoiler

The police had found the blow poke a year before the first trial and didn't think it was important/tell the defense they had photographed it.

The medical examiner originally saying loss of blood was the cause of death and changing it after getting internal pressure.

I though he was not guilty as soon as they showed Mike Nifong (DA that tried to prosecute the Duke lacrosse rape) in the first episode knowing that is how that office operates.

 

[subpar spatula]

Judge was a piece of shit. Should be removed as a judge and have his past trials re-done.

 

[McScroggz]

I just finished the original series, and I got to say I'm shocked by the verdict. When I weigh the evidence that he did it versus the evidence that it was an accident, even including all the circumstancial stuff, it's so lopsided that he didn't do it. And that doesn't even take into account reasonable doubt. Honestly, I feel like he was found guilty because the jury viewed him as a deviant, depraved man for being bisexual.

The medical examiner that found no cranial fractures or brain contusions concluded it was a homicide despite 10 years of autospsies in NC otherwise unanimously showing at least one of those things always occurred in the type of murder they were suggesting. Never mind the odd fact that instead of taking the exhumed body of the friend who died 17 years earlier to an independent examiner locally they spent so much time and money to take it to the examiner that had already made questionable claims.

Because really, the only evidence they have is the gruesome nature of the scene and how hard it is to explain. I would argue based on what was shown though that the explanation posited by the state actually made less sense than it being an accident. I mean it's laughable that the guy who does the blood spatter analysis and creates that model for the state suggests the evidence tells him things happens from a certain vantage point and a certain way, yet whenever he's doing the tests he's not only in a different area but the test isn't a facsimile of what he's claiming to have happened. Oh, and apparently he's an expert that didn't know how to check Dark clothes for blood spatter.

This is the clown show that got a unanimous conviction? Yikes.

 

[Deleted member 14649]

How are people missing the signs of strangulation discovered post mortem, or explaining them?

 

[Deleted member 5167]

How are people missing the signs of strangulation discovered post mortem, or explaining them?

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Its not covered in the documentary until a brief mention near the very end, and is described as damage to the neck bone which could be the result of strangulation (as the discredited forensics examiner no doubt testified) but could also be the case of falling down stairs.

I mean... if there were ligature bruises or some shit presented as evidence thats a strong case for strangulation, but whats presented as the cause of death in the documentary by the prosecution is whacking her round the head a bunch of times by a blow poke just hard nough to bleed but not hard enough to bruise the brain or crack the skull, and swung in such a way that it capably could be swung in a stairway without much room to swing.

If there was a strong case for it being strangulation, it wasn;t shown anywhere in the documentary.

 

[sangreal]

I'm disappointed they glossed over the owl theory. Just a 1-liner from Rudolf

Most interesting to me was the Judge admitting at the end that the majority of the evidence should have been tossed. To be honest though, I doubt it would have mattered. I don't think they needed anything more than the pictures to convict him. It's just not what people expect from a staircase fall and overcoming that intuition is a tall order

I don't know if he killed Kathleen, but the suggestion that he is a serial killer whose MO is killing people on stairs (but not by pushing them) is pretty dumb. It's a coincidence

 

[Maximum Spider]

Judge was a piece of shit. Should be removed as a judge and have his past trials re-done.

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I watched this kinda passively. I heard him apologize and voice some regrets. Was this from him allowing in stuff about Germany? Anything else?

Also, these true crime series need to be reduced down. This and Evil Genius were so long for no good reason.

 

[Tomohawk]

I thought this was like a flake documentary when I watched it and thought these actors and set designers are really good.

 

[Wishbone Ash]

I watched this kinda passively. I heard him apologize and voice some regrets. Was this from him allowing in stuff about Germany? Anything else?

Also, these true crime series need to be reduced down. This and Evil Genius were so long for no good reason.

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He did state the Germany stuff was not relevant, and also said the stuff resulting from the search warrant should never had been admissible, which includes all the homosexuality angle the prosecutors perpetuated

 

[Maximum Spider]

He did state the Germany stuff was not relevant, and also said the stuff resulting from the search warrant should never had been admissible, which includes all the homosexuality angle the prosecutors perpetuated

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Ah, I see. thanks.

 

[Vern]

Just finished the episode with the verdict. All I gotta say is that the proecutor woman is one of the most vile, despicable, scum of the earth, humans I've ever been witness to. How anyone could ever sit on a jury and be convinced by her side of things is beyond me. Those closing arguments of hers were loathsome.

 

[Deleted member 923]

I actually just finished that episode myself, yeah that was disgusting. I know the documentary was filmed and edited in a way to portray him in a favourable light, but I don't see how he could have been found guilty based on the evidence that was shown and the prosecution's argument. There was reasonable doubt and then some.

I do find it odd how no-one really gave a shit about the poke being found though. My feeling was he was innocent right up until that happened because how did it just magically reappear? To me it seems as if someone knew that wasn't the murder weapon (if it was a murder) and so deliberately placed it there to throw the prosecution's argument that it was murder into doubt. It seemed calculated to me, I don't know. Maybe it was just missed when they were looking for it initially although that's tough to believe.

Interested to see what happens in the remaining episodes anyway.

 

[Cat Party]

I'm disappointed they glossed over the owl theory. Just a 1-liner from Rudolf

Most interesting to me was the Judge admitting at the end that the majority of the evidence should have been tossed. To be honest though, I doubt it would have mattered. I don't think they needed anything more than the pictures to convict him. It's just not what people expect from a staircase fall and overcoming that intuition is a tall order

I don't know if he killed Kathleen, but the suggestion that he is a serial killer whose MO is killing people on stairs (but not by pushing them) is pretty dumb. It's a coincidence

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He would not have been convicted if his bisexuality had not been introduced. Without that, they have no motive. The trial was a farce.

 

[steveovig]

I just finished everything and I'm still not sure what to think. Michael is so unbelievably phony and dishonest, to me but between that and the blood are the only things I can see that are against him. To me, the motive was there, to an extent, with his outside relationships. He always portrayed his relationship as near-perfect even up until the final episode. It could not have been perfect if he was having an affair(s). I can only imagine what Kathleen thought about that and that could have certainly played a part in his motive. She finds out about this, and threatens to leave and he gets mad, or something similar. This is all still just speculation though but the motive could be there with that. Not to mention, there was a life insurance policy involved that the documentary never mentions.

For a documentary commissioned by Michael, I came out of it thinking it painted him as guilty, just by Michael's own actions and behaviors. He comes across like a narcissist and an egomaniac. However, the state really didn't have shit on him and Deever was a hack. The blowpoke theory was bullshit, Deever's tests were bullshit. IMO, there isn't enough evidence either way to rule out any doubt. My gut says he did it but I still don't know and my gut doesn't really know shit.

 

[Chekhonte]

I watched the first episode but it didn't grab me. Did any of you find yourself more engaged more episodes in?

 

[Stiler]

Just read about the Owl theory......my mind is blown, I mean it seems absurd yet it makes sense too.

One thing I don't get about the whole trial, how could they exhume the body of the woman from Germany and then rule it a homicide when it was already ruled an accident and not a homicide when it happened? That seemed shady as fuck to me, especially since they wouldn't use a neutral examiner to do it but drove her body all the way back that distance to make sure she was examined by the prosecutor's medical examiner instead, then they just happen to rule it a murder even though the official ruling in Germany wasn't.

 

[Fallout-NL]

I thought the same thing. When the prosecutor played that up in the closing, basically screaming about his homosexuality to the jury I knew he was toast.

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I was so disgusted by Freda Black when she went there yet again. Total fucking bitch. Very disappointed the jury didn't feel the same way.

 

[Lace]

The owl theory makes more sense the longer I think about it. I've personally left a window open at night only for an owl to get stuck in my house. Scared the hell out of me when I opened the bedroom door and there it was perched in the corner of the room. It explains the scratches to the forehead without brain injury.

 

[Deleted member 13328]

I just finished everything and I'm still not sure what to think. Michael is so unbelievably phony and dishonest, to me but between that and the blood are the only things I can see that are against him. To me, the motive was there, to an extent, with his outside relationships. He always portrayed his relationship as near-perfect even up until the final episode. It could not have been perfect if he was having an affair(s). I can only imagine what Kathleen thought about that and that could have certainly played a part in his motive. She finds out about this, and threatens to leave and he gets mad, or something similar. This is all still just speculation though but the motive could be there with that. Not to mention, there was a life insurance policy involved that the documentary never mentions.

For a documentary commissioned by Michael, I came out of it thinking it painted him as guilty, just by Michael's own actions and behaviors. He comes across like a narcissist and an egomaniac. However, the state really didn't have shit on him and Deever was a hack. The blowpoke theory was bullshit, Deever's tests were bullshit. IMO, there isn't enough evidence either way to rule out any doubt. My gut says he did it but I still don't know and my gut doesn't really know shit.

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I really don't know if Michael did it, but the state didn't prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he killed her. So he shouldn't be convicted, the evidence wasn't there. The prosecution fumbled that case bad.

And the jury system is fucked up, I have no idea how anyone would think that was a good idea to have people who has no idea what the burden of proof is or any knowledge of the law decide if someone is guilty or not.

They should not really judge if someone is guilty or innocent. They should decide if the prosecution has proven that the defendant is guilty. They should weigh the evidence, not go on gut feeling or personal biases.

And the Owl theory is wild.

 

[Fallout-NL]

I really don't know if Michael did it, but the state didn't prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he killed her. So he shouldn't be convicted, the evidence wasn't there. The prosecution fumbled that case bad.

And the jury system is fucked up, I have no idea how anyone would think that was a good idea to have people who has no idea what the burden of proof is or any knowledge of the law decide if someone is guilty or not.

They should not really judge if someone is guilty or innocent. They should decide if the prosecution has proven that the defendant is guilty. They should weigh the evidence, not go on gut feeling or personal biases.

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Yeah, pretty fundamental thing the jury, at least in these televised cases, does not seem to get. I liked Rudolph example of Scotland in that sense, where the verdict is 'guilty' or 'not proven'.

 

[The Nightsky]

Just finished watching the whole series. Agree with others that it was way too dragged out in the end. Still an interesting watch though.

This entire case feel frustrating because even the people who seem 100% convinced he's guilty can't present a plausible scenario for how it happened. Where's the murder weapon? How did he beat her just enough to make her bleed out but not enough to fracture her skull? Was he really so dumb that he'd allow a filmcrew to follow his every step to catch any slip-of-tongue and to document all his dark secrets if he was guilty? Could he really avoid bloodsplatter on his shirt, or did he manage to get rid of his shirt and the murder weapon in such a way that they were never found?

Crazy as it seems I'm inclined to believe the Owl Theory.

 

[Poppy]

i watched until the verdict and i gotta say nothing really makes any sense to me

there's no way she died from a fall. did he kill her? i mean yeah probably honestly, she would have had to be fucking contorting and lashing around and spewing like crazy to get that much blood all over the place from a goddamn fall or two

but the thing is that with the way the case was presented in that courtroom from the perspective of the documentary, there is literally zero percent chance he should have been convicted of first degree murder. if i was the prosecution i would have gone for second degree because they were arguing that she found his gay emails and he freaked the fuck out basically. if i'm on that jury i am not leaving the room convicting him of premeditated murder

the germany stuff was absolutely ridiculous and should have never made it in to the trial also

it verymuch felt like the prosecution team was using southern homegrown attitudes to sway the jury and also demonize homosexuality as well, but thats to be expected because the legal system is a disgusting war. i think the prosecution and their witnesses as shown in this doc absolutely fucking sucked, like they were amateur hour podunk bullshit

anyway i honestly think he murdered her but i have nothing concrete to base it on and neither does anyone else, so that verdict is fucking stupid

 

[Hours Left]

Everything about this series made me angry.

The homophobia and racism was mind numbing.

 

[plagiarize]

I'm all in on the owl theory. I told a friend about the case. Didn't show him pictures. Just told him the facts about her injuries etc. He kept asking 'but how did she die' and I started to tell him that their neighbor had this idea. I got as far as saying 'well the house was in a wooded area' and my friend point blank asked 'was it an owl?'.

He photographs birds. We watched the extra bit together. I hadn't heard about the microfeathers. I guess wounds to the bone are very typical of owl attacks. He called them asshole birds and he avoids them for his own safety.

I hadn't been sold on the owl theory when I read it. But yeah I am now 100% convinced that's what happened.

 

[sangreal]

there's no way she died from a fall. did he kill her? i mean yeah probably honestly, she would have had to be fucking contorting and lashing around and spewing like crazy to get that much blood all over the place from a goddamn fall or two

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well, that's where the owl theory comes in

it wasn't really in the documentary though

 

[Rodney McKay]

I watched the first episode but it didn't grab me. Did any of you find yourself more engaged more episodes in?

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Personally, not really.
Similar to at least one of the other Netflix crime documentaries I've seen, it just keeps going and going and going. I was eventually interested enough to start fast forwarding through some of the episodes just to get to the next big reveal, but the doc itself was pretty meh. Probably could have just read a wiki in it and gotten the same out of it.

Whether he did it or not really couldn't be proved with what was there, but the shady actions of the cops and the anti-bisexual stuff was what put him away.

It's definitely a possibility he could have done it, but the reasonable doubt was so strong it NEVER should have gotten as far as it did.

 

[TheRagnCajun]

I think it's a really tough case. No one can look at that scene and believe it's an accident. Everyone has seen someone fall at some point, everyone knows you don't bleed like that after an accidental fall down a few steps.

On the other hand, it's hard to say it was a beating. There would be a weapon. There would be defensive wounds. There would be damage to the stairs and walls. The wounds would be spread out more. There would probably be a skull fracture.

I don't know if he's guilty but that trial is a chilling reality check to how the justice system, juries and homicide detectives work.

The owl theory is more plausible considering the evidence but I'm not sure what the chances are for something like that.

 

[Chekhonte]

Personally, not really.
Similar to at least one of the other Netflix crime documentaries I've seen, it just keeps going and going and going. I was eventually interested enough to start fast forwarding through some of the episodes just to get to the next big reveal, but the doc itself was pretty meh. Probably could have just read a wiki in it and gotten the same out of it.

Whether he did it or not really couldn't be proved with what was there, but the shady actions of the cops and the anti-bisexual stuff was what put him away.

It's definitely a possibility he could have done it, but the reasonable doubt was so strong it NEVER should have gotten as far as it did.

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That's what I feared. Thanks for the reply.

 

[Nathan_Drake]

Never heard of the owl theory. Bananas.

I thought it was crazy that Michael and the lady that edited and helped produce the film were together for over 10 years. He claims no conflict of interest and it didn't influence how the series came out. SureJan.gif

 

[effzee]

Anyone else think Margaret is Michael's biological daughter?

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Holy shit I thought the same thing throughout!!! Could lend credence to the thought he was sleeping with their mother.

Just read about the Owl theory......my mind is blown, I mean it seems absurd yet it makes sense too.

One thing I don't get about the whole trial, how could they exhume the body of the woman from Germany and then rule it a homicide when it was already ruled an accident and not a homicide when it happened? That seemed shady as fuck to me, especially since they wouldn't use a neutral examiner to do it but drove her body all the way back that distance to make sure she was examined by the prosecutor's medical examiner instead, then they just happen to rule it a murder even though the official ruling in Germany wasn't.

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I didn't get this part either. And wouldn't Germany then want to chime in or re-open the case?

• Just finished all the episodes and still not sure if he did it or now. Leaning towards he didn't.
• Ep 13 is wild with Kathleen's sister putting on one crazy performance. I feel for her and everyone but she just came across as unhinged more than anything else.
• Rudolph getting mad at the slides guy was hilarious!

 

[MazeHaze]

Man, this thing is waaaaaaay too fucking long. After about 5 episodes I just skipped to the verdict. No way could I sit through 6 more hours of that. Christ. Talk about needing an editor.

 

[InaudibleWhisper]

Man, this thing is waaaaaaay too fucking long. After about 5 episodes I just skipped to the verdict. No way could I sit through 6 more hours of that. Christ. Talk about needing an editor.

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It's really 3 separate series/films merged together. The original was 8 episodes long, then there was a sequel film when he was released from prison, and then they made another sequel to end it and Netflix acquired it and spread the whole thing over 13 episodes. I can definitely see how it could be long winded all together like that, rather than watched over the years like I did. They probably should have condensed it a bit when putting together the whole package for Netflix.

 

[One Eyed Willy]

Man, this thing is waaaaaaay too fucking long. After about 5 episodes I just skipped to the verdict. No way could I sit through 6 more hours of that. Christ. Talk about needing an editor.

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I almost did this, but I made it through. It was worth it, but the series could have been 5 episodes shorter for sure.

 

[Something Creative]

I'm all in on the owl theory. I told a friend about the case. Didn't show him pictures. Just told him the facts about her injuries etc. He kept asking 'but how did she die' and I started to tell him that their neighbor had this idea. I got as far as saying 'well the house was in a wooded area' and my friend point blank asked 'was it an owl?'.

He photographs birds. We watched the extra bit together. I hadn't heard about the microfeathers. I guess wounds to the bone are very typical of owl attacks. He called them asshole birds and he avoids them for his own safety.

I hadn't been sold on the owl theory when I read it. But yeah I am now 100% convinced that's what happened.

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Where were the microfeathers found? Where was she attacked and why was blood just at the base of the stairs? Did the owl go inside the house, get caught in her hair, attack her, and then fly out of the house all with Michael not noticing?

Sorry for the inquisition. I'm genuinely curious

Never heard of the owl theory. Bananas.

I thought it was crazy that Michael and the lady that edited and helped produce the film were together for over 10 years. He claims no conflict of interest and it didn't influence how the series came out. SureJan.gif

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Source? I couldn't find anything linking the two, but that would make sense

 

[fleeting]

I'm leaning towards guilty, but acknowledge that they probably didn't have a good enough case against him and also fucked everything up big. And as some of you already posted, the documentary paints him and the case in a favourable light.

It's a big coincidence that a woman in his life died in a similar odd manner many years earlier.

Why was his bloody shoe print on her, underneath her body? Was it ever explained? Or why did he take his shoes and socks off and walked to the kitchen sink?

 

[Nathan_Drake]

Where were the microfeathers found? Where was she attacked and why was blood just at the base of the stairs? Did the owl go inside the house, get caught in her hair, attack her, and then fly out of the house all with Michael not noticing?

Sorry for the inquisition. I'm genuinely curious

Source? I couldn't find anything linking the two, but that would make sense

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There are a lot of articles but here is one. Just Google staircase editor relationship.


http://amp.newsobserver.com/entertainment/tv/warm-tv-blog/article213085459.html

 

[Powdered Egg]

This could have been edited better (fell asleep so many times) but this was interesting. I'll have to rewatch to see the parts I missed.

Whether he did it or not, from what I've seen he should not have went to prison. The prosecution's case was pretty weak and their presentation and evidence would not have been enough to convince me beyond a reasonable doubt. Their biggest weapon was homophobia and I'm afraid sex with men is what got him convicted. "Ladies and gentlemen, these images are so graphic they would never air on TV!" , yeah no shit porn doesn't air on TV smh.

 

[Something Creative]

There are a lot of articles but here is one. Just Google staircase editor relationship.


http://amp.newsobserver.com/entertainment/tv/warm-tv-blog/article213085459.html

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Ah OK that's news to me. I was conflating what you had said with another allegation that the people behind the documentary were his friends that he had enlisted to create a puff piece for him

 

[plagiarize]

Where were the microfeathers found? Where was she attacked and why was blood just at the base of the stairs? Did the owl go inside the house, get caught in her hair, attack her, and then fly out of the house all with Michael not noticing?

Sorry for the inquisition. I'm genuinely curious

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Between her fingers, along with some of her own hair. Microfeathers are only found in owls. As to where it happened, we can only speculate. It seems plausible to me that it could have happened right outside, and then she ran inside and passed out as she was climbing the stairs. We know there were impact points inside the stairwell. It could take a little while before the blood would wick through her hair. Other people think it could have happened in the stairwell, accounting for some of the 'swipes' in the blood. I'm no expert so I don't know which is more plausible, but that she had her own hair and owl feathers between her fingers... along with wounds characteristic of owl attacks... yeah. I'm sold.

 

[killdatninja]

Saw this a couple week ago, didn't know there was a thread.

I'm leaning on the side that he did do it (just a gut feeling)... but there's enough reasonable doubt that he should have not been sentenced. The defense not owning up to the Bi stuff... really messed them over. A big part of the DA's argument was "he was lying about having an idyllic marriage and having gay sex partners, of course he would lie about murdering someone!". Michael was more worried about ruining his image than the actual murder charges at one point...

 

[alr1ght]

Did Michael not say in the original doc (the first 8 episodes) that his wife knew of his bisexuality, then later in the new episodes (11,12,13) that he would have loved to talk to her and open up about his bisexuality to her?

 

[Wood Man]

Watched it, thought it was interesting but ended up being way too long, I could've done with like 6-8 episodes max. Sped watched the last few episodes.

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I agree. It dragged at times. fascinating case. The guy totally did something but the jury was wrong. There was simply no proof to convict him. I noticed he only showed emotion and sorrow during the trial. While at home he was like business as usual with the fam. This behavior was odd for someone how is married.

 

[Something Creative]

Did Michael not say in the original doc (the first 8 episodes) that his wife knew of his bisexuality, then later in the new episodes (11,12,13) that he would have loved to talk to her and open up about his bisexuality to her?

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I think he suggested it was an open secret in a way but lamented never really discussing it with her.

Between her fingers, along with some of her own hair. Microfeathers are only found in owls. As to where it happened, we can only speculate. It seems plausible to me that it could have happened right outside, and then she ran inside and passed out as she was climbing the stairs. We know there were impact points inside the stairwell. It could take a little while before the blood would wick through her hair. Other people think it could have happened in the stairwell, accounting for some of the 'swipes' in the blood. I'm no expert so I don't know which is more plausible, but that she had her own hair and owl feathers between her fingers... along with wounds characteristic of owl attacks... yeah. I'm sold.

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Pretty compelling... would be interesting to hear why the director omitted any discussion of that theory. Not like they were trying to keep the documentary tight and focused.