Netflix releasing Cuties, based on the story of a refugee who is torn between traditional values and internet culture; has very questionable marketing
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Honestly I'd feel sleazier watching something like Seven Deadly Sins on Netflix than this, considering the creepy male gaze sexualization and the multiple relationships that revolve around one character resembling a child compared to the "adult".
I haven't seen the film but I assume this doesn't have a comedy relief character who gropes women and jokes about being a lolicon.
I haven't seen the film but I assume this doesn't have a comedy relief character who gropes women and jokes about being a lolicon.
That's the problem. You didn't say "I'm not gonna watch this, I think the content will make me uncomfortable".
You likened the people explaining why this movie is not like lolicon to people defending lolicon.
That's some offensive bullshit, considering what this movie is about. You just throw out insulting comparisons without consideration for what's actually true, based on a first impression without any reflection.
Have you at least taken the time to read this?
Netflix really fucked up the marketing here. Movie sounds quite interesting. Here's a translated interview with the director:
Maïmouna Doucouré • Director of Cuties
18/08/2020 - French filmmaker Maïmouna Doucouré tells us about her feature debut, Cuties, awarded at Sundance and Berlin and acquired by Netflix, now landing in French cinemaswww.cineuropa.org
The movie deserves better than being compared to weird anime porn.
You making incendiary comparisons while dismissing any information that would tell you you're wrong means you're being dismissive.
The mistake Netflix made is that they vastly overestimated consumers. I don't think we're meant to look at the poster and think "this is fine". It's creepy in the same way that real life child beauty pageants are, but then those are still a thing so what do I know.
Ah yes the image board full of pedo and nazi shit has the moral high ground
Thanks for this thread, it was really entertaining to read between the kneejerk, half-assed and uninformed reactions. Yes, Netflix fucked up but they partly won, the marketing partly worked and I laughed so mich of all those reactions just stopping to one poster and not thinking "No, this is too big to be true, I need to know more"... I hoped to be surprised but I'm not, this is how it is nowadays.
oof
when was it not? when was the time where everyone said, "Nay! I shan't pass judgement on this work as I have yet to do my due diligence! I shall consult with scholars as well as my own studies first!"
This article is over 4 years old and just gets truer.
Men Are Sabotaging The Online Reviews Of TV Shows Aimed At Women
We can quibble about where it stands in the TV canon, but “Sex and the City” has seven Emmys and a suite of Golden Globes and Screen Actors Guild awards. It ran…
fivethirtyeight.com
I hope someone does a deep dive in the near future about the reactions around this.
I think there's a lot of discussion to be had surrounding how a film made by a woman, seem through the eyes of actual girls draws more controversy than the constant barrage of men-driven shows where sexualized women aren't the focus.
Like I watched Taxi Driver the other night and it features a 12 year old prostitute. It's uncomfortable and I think Scorsese is a bit problematic in how he depicts her as a streetwise youth, but nobody wants the movie banned for that reason. But I imagine if a woman with experience in the sex worker industry made a film from Iris' point of view, focused on her, it'd be similarly bashed and controversial.
I guess I'm trying to say I feel like this is another example of men being upset with woman entering their space. Though this space is how film depicts the sexualization of woman, and woman, no matter their intentions, aren't allowed to offer up opinions on their own body and how the world views them.
But I'm not intelligent or well read enough to fully articulate this point. I'd love to see like Lindsay Ellis or someone like Sarah Z (who usually does a good job examining stuff many men overlook) do a deep dive in the future.
Sadly I imagine we're gonna have like THE QUARTERING and Sargon of Akaad offer up their two cents, with a healthy dose of Islamaphobia in the mix.
I think there's a lot of discussion to be had surrounding how a film made by a woman, seem through the eyes of actual girls draws more controversy than the constant barrage of men-driven shows where sexualized women aren't the focus.
Like I watched Taxi Driver the other night and it features a 12 year old prostitute. It's uncomfortable and I think Scorsese is a bit problematic in how he depicts her as a streetwise youth, but nobody wants the movie banned for that reason. But I imagine if a woman with experience in the sex worker industry made a film from Iris' point of view, focused on her, it'd be similarly bashed and controversial.
I guess I'm trying to say I feel like this is another example of men being upset with woman entering their space. Though this space is how film depicts the sexualization of woman, and woman, no matter their intentions, aren't allowed to offer up opinions on their own body and how the world views them.
But I'm not intelligent or well read enough to fully articulate this point. I'd love to see like Lindsay Ellis or someone like Sarah Z (who usually does a good job examining stuff many men overlook) do a deep dive in the future.
Sadly I imagine we're gonna have like THE QUARTERING and Sargon of Akaad offer up their two cents, with a healthy dose of Islamaphobia in the mix.
If you had faith you wouldn't have said, "this is how it is nowadays." you would have chided the judgements in this thread alone and not society as a whole. 🙂
Disregarding the quality of the movie itself, the poster was bad and Netflix is right to change it.
I'm curious whether you saw the trailer or if this stance is based solely on the poster and description?
Ew.
That's really all I have to say about this. Just...ew. Also "TV-MA?" like, what? Who is this movie even supposed to be for? Don't answer that, actually. Ew.
The trailer actually looks like a legit film, but it still feels kind of grossly exploitative. Like, the filmmakers want to have their cake and eat it too, for lack of a better term. Like, "hey, this film is actually a commentary on the hypersexualization of minors, so the depictions of the hypersexualization of minors in this film is totes okay!"
It just makes me super uncomfortable. Like, I don't need to actually see depictions of tween girls twirking to know that this world has an issue with the hypersexualization of minors.
That's really all I have to say about this. Just...ew. Also "TV-MA?" like, what? Who is this movie even supposed to be for? Don't answer that, actually. Ew.
The trailer actually looks like a legit film, but it still feels kind of grossly exploitative. Like, the filmmakers want to have their cake and eat it too, for lack of a better term. Like, "hey, this film is actually a commentary on the hypersexualization of minors, so the depictions of the hypersexualization of minors in this film is totes okay!"
It just makes me super uncomfortable. Like, I don't need to actually see depictions of tween girls twirking to know that this world has an issue with the hypersexualization of minors.
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Also R-rated -
Eighth Grade
Booksmart
Boyhood
Moonlight
It's almost like the lived experiences of teens and preteens often contain R-rated content and that to accurately depict their lives often engenders ratings that exceed their age.
Why was this promotional image even made? What parent would allow their child to be photographed like that? What photographer would take these types of photos? Why would Netflix even THINK It Was a good idea to use that image? What The FUCK is wrong with people thinking???
‘Eighth Grade’: Why 13-Year-Olds Aren’t Allowed to See a Movie About Themselves
Why the MPAA gave Bo Burnham's film an "R" and kept 13-Year-Olds from seeing a movie about themselves.
www.indiewire.com
This is my stance too.
I dont need to watch a film about hypersexualization of minors to know its gross.
Hell if they are so inclined, then make a documentary.. not you know... a MOVIE.
Read this:
The TV-MA rating is because people with what I assume are weird issues looked at a serious story and went "Ew".
Really? That's your takeaway from this interview?
I'm not sure what your cultural background is, but it almost seems like you're treating the topic as some kind of boogieman that can't be portrayed in serious media, for some reason. I think that's odd, and I think that it's pretty horrible to phrase it like Maïmouna Doucouré went into this project because she wanted to hypersexualize minors.
‘Eighth Grade’: Why 13-Year-Olds Aren’t Allowed to See a Movie About Themselves
Why the MPAA gave Bo Burnham's film an "R" and kept 13-Year-Olds from seeing a movie about themselves.
Watched this with my niece and oldest son. They loved it and really appreciated being able to relate with a lot of it. Made for some great post-film discussion too.
Burnham also has a great quote about when he was researching for the film.
He pointed out how when he looked at what 13 year olds were talking about on social media and such all the boys were into video games and sports while the girls "were bearing their souls."
‘Eighth Grade’: Why 13-Year-Olds Aren’t Allowed to See a Movie About Themselves
Why the MPAA gave Bo Burnham's film an "R" and kept 13-Year-Olds from seeing a movie about themselves.
Won't someone think of the children?
Easier to get a knee jerk hot take on a film they know nothing about, especially the people making it, than it is to take the few minutes to educate yourself. Still can't get over seeing the opinion that the creator's lived experience isn't appropriate for film, after all the different films I've seen depicting all manner of topics, especially from men.
Also highlights why young girls have it rough as they grow up. Won't be forgetting this thread as my daughter gets older and having a firm understanding the kind of attitudes she's going to be up against.
User banned (permanent): concern trolling about sexualization of minors. Alt account of a member previously perma-banned for defending the sexualization of minors and defending a child sexual predator
One is an anime/drawings. The other sexualizes real underage girls. WTF. I just saw the trailer. This show is indefensible. I'm still in shock.
yes, absolutely agreed.
I'd argue there's a difference between knowing something and being made to feel it. There are a lot of films about uncomfortable, taboo or hellish subjects that every sensible person falls on the right side of, but quite a lot of them still insist on showing those things to try and impart some additional empathy, or disgust, or horror, or sadness in their audience. And some of those do it in an exploitative way, while some do it for genuine artistic reasons.
Take a film like Paul Verhoeven's Elle, or Jennifer Kent's The Nightingale. Opinion is pretty divided around both films (more so Elle, I think) as to whether their uncompromising depictions of rape are necessary for the story they're trying to tell, but I'd say both are strong candidates for the argument that making the viewer watch the horror strengthens a conclusion that they already hold, and makes the rest of the film feel more immediate. Or in the case of Elle, it puts them in a more understanding mindset for the complex behaviours that follow.
Then on the other hand you've got something like Son of Saul, which keeps the horror oblique - never revelling in it - and it's arguably more powerful than it would have been if it turned the camera and focused.
I haven't seen Cuties, so I've no idea whether the dancing footage feels exploitative or whether it serves a purpose, and I don't know if it would have been better handled off-screen. I'm going to have to watch it to see. But I don't think we should make blanket decisions about not depicting certain things just because 'everyone knows they're wrong'. Especially since, in this case, everyone clearly doesn't agree they're wrong, as the real-life inspiration for the film reveals, along with the seamy child beauty pageant industry.
The [awful] Netflix marketing seemed to undermine the point the film is trying to make going by some of the reviews.
www.mtrnetwork.net
Sundance 2020: Cuties is an Uncomfortable Portrayal of Tweenhood - MTR Network
Maïmouna Doucouré’s Cuties challenges the audiences to come to terms with raising young children in the internet age and what that means about influences
www.mtrnetwork.net
To quote Roger Ebert: "Movies are machines that generate empathy."
It's telling that you don't even realize it's a single film. Get out of the shock and read post #536.
This thread is hot take city...
EDIT: And I have to laugh, bitterly, at the implication that Seven Deadly Sins is harmless, while this film isn't.
The idea of someone not watching Eigth Grade or Moonlight because of the R-rated content makes my head hurt lol
Idk yall...films like these are really meaningful and alot more substantial than sexy anime kid shows. You're just doing yourself a disservice to avoid any serious stories covering kids and sexuality in matter-of-fact ways
Is a weird focus people have had for a coming of age story. Can't speak for others but if you wanted to depict my years coming into and through teenagehood in any meaningful way you'd hit a R/18+ rating.
The Florida Project is about two 6-year old girls and it's rated R. Clearly it's a fucked up pedo film made by someone who should be in prison.
/s
It seems like a lot of people still subscribe to the very unpleasant notion that emotional and sexual maturity is some kind of instant on / off switch that only flicks when someone turns 14, 15, 16, 17, or 18 - depending on where you live in the world.
I know someone who found his eldest daughter watching porn. She's 12. That's only a year older than the girls this film is about. It was a shock to him, and he spent a lot of time talking it out with her to understand what she thought she was getting from it, and where the drive came from, but I doubt it's uncommon.
There's a gradual transition from childhood to adulthood, not a clean break. I swear it's like some people just didn't have the awkward pre-teen and teenage years at all - just jumped straight from 10 to 20.
I know someone who found his eldest daughter watching porn. She's 12. That's only a year older than the girls this film is about. It was a shock to him, and he spent a lot of time talking it out with her to understand what she thought she was getting from it, and where the drive came from, but I doubt it's uncommon.
There's a gradual transition from childhood to adulthood, not a clean break. I swear it's like some people just didn't have the awkward pre-teen and teenage years at all - just jumped straight from 10 to 20.
I don't disagree, but like I said in my post I (emphasis on the "I") don't need to see the hypersexual exploitation of minors in a film to know the hypersexual exploitation of minors is a problem. And also, like I said, the trailer looks like a legit film. As in, it does seem to have something powerful to say about the characters in the story, and the struggle our protagonist is facing being torn between two worlds. I've watched similar movies before, and I enjoy them. This particular movie, however, is not one I'm interested in seeing.
The poster in the OP definitely didn't do the movie any favors, and my initial impression of the film was based off of that. The trailer was better, but still made me uncomfortable because it's still these very young actresses, being depicted in a sexual way to tell a story about how young women being depicted and perceived in a sexual way is wrong. Maybe it's because the actual actresses in the film are so young. Hollywood flicks tend to cast older actors playing younger characters which, even if the subject matter is uncomfortable, it seems more, I don't know, "palatable" because at least the people in the film are adults playing a role? Having actual minors playing this part, while lending some kind of authenticity to it, also makes it more uncomfortable for me as a film goer. Like, in the films you mentioned, we know, as moviegoers, the depictions of rape or violence aren't real. As disturbing and upsetting as those images are to see, in the back of our heads, we know it's not real. It doesn't make the depictions any less impactful, but there's this subconscious barrier we put up knowing that, in the end, it's all fake. It's acting. Make up, fiction, even when depicting true events. It's kind of hard to fake an 11 year old twerking in a film when it's an 11 year old actually twerking in a film. No matter how tastefully the dance sequences may be shot or composed, it's still a real underage person on camera performing. One of my favorite movies is The Professional, which I saw when I was about 14, but every scene with 12 year old Natalie Portman behaving and speaking in a sexual way towards Leon makes me incredibly uncomfortable. One of the many reasons I haven't rewatched the film in decades.
It's a strange quandary that I don't have a solution for. I never said we shouldn't depict certain things because everyone knows they're wrong. I said I don't need to see that depiction to know it's wrong. Specifically in this particular film about this particular subject matter.
For some people, I'm sure that's the case. I lost my virginity years before I turned 14, so for me, it's not a matter of not recognizing that very young children are discovering their sexuality during their preteen years. I just personally am not interested in seeing that depiction of children in a movie or tv show. Fortunately, I have the option to not watch those things.
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Movie looks interesting, if appropriately uncomfortable. Because of the subject matter it was never going to be completely smooth sailing, but I feel bad for the director, Netflix totally flubbed the marketing.
from the interviews i read it seems like the director did everything she could to do this the right way.
I hope it's a Muslim or person of a Muslim background writing this...or it will be Islamophobic as fuck.