2D Mario games require unlimited funds and massive development teams to produce? lmao
Please, just stop now.
New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe announced for Switch (January 11, 2019)
- Thread starter Cerium
- Start date
Please, just stop now.
It was clear I was using sarcasm...it could not have been more clear by the way I worded that, with an "LOL" at the end. Chill man, we are just talking about the likelihood of a 2D Mario. Geez man don't be so serious...
Nintendo isn't going to take resources from 3D Mario to create a 2D Mario more expensive than NSMB, when it will never match the total content and sales of SMM. There is a reason it's been over 20 years since SMW2.
The 2D and 3D teams are completely separate and so far Maker has not outsold any of the New titles. It makes no sense to not make both.
How is everyone so sure that SMM has more commercial appeal? Mario Maker did quite a bit less than Splatoon, Smash, 3D World, and NSMBU.
How are people sure that it can sell more than 2D Mario going forward?
How are people sure that it can sell more than 2D Mario going forward?
It's not about using the exact same teams, it's the budget versus income. I didn't say take team members from 3D Mario, but that $1 in 3D dev money will make more money than $5 additional dollars in 2D dev money.
SMM sold less because it came out well after the most recent NSMB games, and one was on the WiiU which no one owns. What that said, it's still sold only 2 million less despite coming out 3 years after WiiU launch.
Of course no one is saying "I know for sure Nintendo will never make another 2D Mario!"...but these would be some of the reasons why. Plus, has Nintendo ever released a game solely with graphical improvements?
critically - really depends. is it going to take advantage of the touch screen like the wii u's gamepad, or will it be a heavily compromised version of the original like the 3ds game in some way? because the reception to super mario maker was incredibly different between the wii u and the 3ds. while the switch version would have the ability to download other levels from players online, it won't have the ease of use that the wii u version enjoyed. there would need to be some sort of compromise to the controls that would make it inherently less enjoyable and more difficult to design levels. that, or the switch version mimics the wii u's dual screen ability somehow, and comes with a special stylus or something.
commercially - super mario maker sold 4 million on wii u. new super mario bros. u sold 5.77 million. new super mario bros. u dx is probably going to outsell both. a new 2d entry to the series after 6-7 years is going to do very well.
What? Have you ever looked at sales?
There's a number of features they put in their NSMB games that don't translate well to SMM. Hell, SMM doesn't even have slopes. Until it's possible to re-create every level from each of the four games, I'm going to disagree with this.
That was released before SMW2, five systems ago.
Yes, it looks like NSMB is selling well! Which means it is unlikely that Nintendo will introduce another 2D Mario line.
Guys...you are acting like I am saying I don't want anymore 2D Mario. What I'm saying is, we've seen nothing in Nintendo's history that would suggest that they'd release 3 different 2D Mario lines. And they aren't getting rid of the NSMB and SMM brands. It's just an opinion...I'm not guaranteeing anything. But the only other 2D platformers since the N64 days, besides these two Marios, are Kirby and Yoshi games that were very simplistic in comparison to the average Mario game.
I really have a feeling that this could be the only 2D Mario on Switch. Remember the 1995-2006 gap where we had no new 2D Mario games? It could be that Nintendo simply doesn't know how to advance the series right now, so it's on another hiatus. Of course, we'll get Mario Maker at some point, but that seems like it might be its own separate thing.
I'll probably get this port years down the line if it turns out to be the only 2D Mario on the system. It just wouldn't feel right to have a Nintendo console without 2D Mario.
I'll probably get this port years down the line if it turns out to be the only 2D Mario on the system. It just wouldn't feel right to have a Nintendo console without 2D Mario.
The "NSMB style" is just 2D Mario. They made the tool that became Mario Maker to aid development of future 2D Mario games. I don't get this desire to reinvent the wheel when that's never been the series' thing. When they really change things up they create spinoffs like Yoshi's Island and Warioland, and while I like those games I also want traditional run and jump Mario. They evolve the series through new level mechanics and modes like always.
Mario Maker is a great play create share game, but it in no way holds a candle to 2D Mario games. Mario Maker is so lacking in tools that you can't recreate a single level of NSMBU in it.
The reason we are getting NSMBU Deluxe is because the game only sold 5.77 million on Wii U, which was still enough to make it the 3rd highest selling game on the system behind Mario Kart 8 and 3D World. Nintendo knows they could easily get double those sales on a more popular system. Mario Kart 8 was the best-selling Wii U game and only sold 8.42 million on Wii U. Mario Kart 8 Deluxe has sold 10.35 million on Switch so far, so of course they're going to port the other best-selling Wii U games.
NSMB: 31 million
NSMBWii: 30.20 million
NSMB2: 12.70 million
Super Mario Maker has sold 4 million
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Guys, in no way am I saying MM is better or worse than anything or that I am against Nintendo making more of anything. What I'm saying is that there hasn't been a sequel two SMW2 in 20 years, and we don't have any sign that Nintendo is interested in making more 2D platformers, with a 3rd 2D Mario line.
I don't know what you're saying. They've made Yoshi's Island 2, Yoshi's New Island, Yoshi's Woolly World, Yoshi's Story, and Yoshi's Crafted World. All of those are continuations of that spinoff.
I mentioned Yoshi and Kirby games already in the post prior to the last one. That's one line of Yoshi 2D and one line of Kirby 2D.
I don't see them selling the current two lines of 2D Mario and then adding another line, on top of the 2 lines of 3D Mario that they sell (3D Land, 3D World, and the Galaxy games, vs. SM64, SMS and SMO).
You see Nintendo selling 5 different Mario platformer games?
I dont get it NSMBWii sales>>>Galaxy 1+2
They even tried to make 3d Mario more like 2d Mario with 3dLand and World
Sales are not the problem
There are currently two lines of Kirby games: the mainline ones and the experimental made by other teams like the Wii U and DS one
I don't get where you're getting this 3rd line from. If they make a completely new 2D Mario game in a few years it will be part of the 2D Mario line like all the classic games and new games. Mario Maker and the 3D games don't really compete with that.
2D Mario, 3D Adventure Mario, 3D Platformer Mario, Mario Maker
Ok nevermind then. I just don't think Nintendo will get rid of NSMB and also create a new 2D game that will be different than NSMB aesthetically.
NSMBU is already different aesthetically in the same way previous games were.
Beta with NSMBWii assets:
Final NSMBU:
The NSMB games just continue the visual style of the classic games. They clearly put a lot more effort into the visuals on NSMBU than they put into, say, SMW.
NSMBU sold 5.77 million, 3D World sold 5.78 million. 3D World will get the Deluxe treatment, but it's too soon after Odyssey.
I will always vouch for this game. I genuinely believe it might be the best 2D Mario game since Super Mario World which ... I know is not really a controversial opinion (Especially on places like here), but I think people don't fully comprehend how impressive of a feat that is. Super Mario World is not only one of the greatest 2D platformers ever made, but one of THE best games ever made. Period. The fact that they managed to craft level design that stands toe to toe with one of the greatest games of all time is just mindblowing.
I'm tired of people using NSMB wii as a reference for sales predictions. They launched Wii U with NSMBU and look how well it did. And I remember people laughing at me when I was insisting a 3d Mario would have moved more consoles on the launch and I still believe that. I don't care if NSMBW sold 30 millions, it was an exception, a firework, easy to understand for the casual owners, first time co op was cool too, maybe those non gamers remembered having played SMB once, 20 years ago, have no idea how many of those are actually gamers right now. And no if you think Deluxe will easily reach Odyssey numbers you have another thing coming. Core gamers will always care more for 3d Mario than 2d.
PS: regarding 2D Mario vs Mario Maker I think the first one has a lot mote potential. But seriously it's time they put fucking online multiplayer!!
Love that whenever someone knocks the NSMB games, a defender comes along and inevitably takes a pot shot at World. Love it.NSMBU is already different aesthetically in the same way previous games were.
Beta with NSMBWii assets:
Final NSMBU:
The NSMB games just continue the visual style of the classic games. They clearly put a lot more effort into the visuals on NSMBU than they put into, say, SMW.
NSMBU sold 5.77 million, 3D World sold 5.78 million. 3D World will get the Deluxe treatment, but it's too soon after Odyssey.
Ok but even when I was a kid I thought SMW looked very plain, and I love that game.
Same with SMB3. Mainline Mario has always had a sort of basic aesthetic.
It's not a pot shot. World has a handful of palette swap backgrounds and was a regression in theming after SMB3. It doesn't take much care in visual storytelling with its backgrounds, where Valley of Bowser levels look no different from any other underground level throughout the game and you could post a grass level and not be able to tell which world it's from.
NSMBU, on the other hand, has like the most foregrounds and backgrounds in the entire 2D series, with the backgrounds changing to reflect the level's sub-theme and location on the map:
It's always the SMW fans who shit on the NSMB games, despite that the two Wii U entries are actually great games. The SMB3 fanbase 'tolerates' the blandness of NSMB more, which makes sense because 3 has superior level design than World, the 3 camp being more mechanically inclined, and therefore don't place much emphasis on the cosmetics and can see that there's actual substance beneath the surface.
I personally prefer a clean and modular design, DKC TF being the best looking polygonal sidescroller. It looks nice and is detailed enough, while still offers the much needed clarity in a fast paced platformer.
But it's not even that. A lot of people consider SMW visually bland compared to SMB3. It has fewer level themes and has washed-out looking colors. 3 felt a lot more ambitious.
Visually there's nothing really wrong with the NSMB games. They are simply a continuation of the classic art direction but with far more detail. Honestly the only NSMB game that comes across as ugly is NSMBWii due to its use of shiny textures on its background models and overuse of gradients. The rest look fine and NSMBU looks great. They need a lot of work in the music department, though
The thing about Super Mario World's art is that they weren't going for variety, they were going for a cohesive world ... that's the whole point of the game. That's why it has the word "World" in the title.
Heavily disagree. SMB3's levels are much shorter, simpler, and don't have any alternate exits. I love the game and everything but SMW has far superior level design.
Heavily disagree. SMB3's levels are much shorter, simpler, and don't have any alternate exits. I love the game and everything but SMW has far superior level design.
Yes exactly, tighter and more focused levels. The moment to moment in SMW is often generic, just some platform there, eat a fruit here, some random enemies popping out from the wall and then finally end with a section of happy dolphins for no reason, etc. without anything meaningful going on whereas SMB3 levels are designed with intent and maintain a constant stream of interesting situations and the levels are all cohesive: a level with springs will only contain challenges that require use of springs, starting slow only to build upon the ideas it introduces before the climax where you have to apply all the lessons at once in a more complex situation. It follows the established Nintendo platformer template much closer than World: the linear obstacle course. SMW is by comparison more of an adventure game with platforming elements being secondary.
I don't even mind the visuals in this game. I just HATE the music and sound effects. They are are damn generic and boring. Such a shame
Maybe all 2D Mario games are good. It's like trying to compare breeds of dogs, all dogs are good dogs.
I can barely remember a thing about NSMB2, yet I think it actually has my favorite of the NSMB aesthetics in its bold colors.
The SMW-inspired backgrounds don't hurt, either.
The SMW-inspired backgrounds don't hurt, either.
Correct, but I'm talking about stuff like this:
Those are very clearly SMW-inspired mountain formations. Looking through this album, I wish we had more "painted" locations like the latter -- that's unlike anything else in Mario.
Ok you got a point.Correct, but I'm talking about stuff like this:
Those are very clearly SMW-inspired mountain formations. Looking through this album, I wish we had more "painted" locations like the latter -- that's unlike anything else in Mario.
I always used the 3D to blur the background so I guess I missed that :p
I wished this was more liberally used
NSMB2 is my least favorite NSMB game by quite a margin but it does look nice.
Going back to NSMB is actually harder with how drab it looks in comparison, turns out NSMB2 is how I remember NSMB, lol
Ok you got a point.
I always used the 3D to blur the background so I guess I missed that :p
I wished this was more liberally used
NSMB2 is my least favorite NSMB game by quite a margin but it does look nice.
That was for the special stages, right? Those would've made for some interesting night levels.
I recently started replaying NSMB and was shocked at how dull the first world was -- the Mega Mushroom doesn't lend to any sort of depth and functions primarily as a power trip. Can't speak for the rest of the game thus far, but the rust was clearly showing there.
My problem with NSMB series is that the music is almost the same across four games that released in a ten year period. Yes, there're subtle changes on the main themes, but for example, Castle, Ghost House, Water and other themes are the same. When you do it after 15-20 years it can be considered nostalgia or fan service (like all Mario Maker), but four modern games in a row...
Some visual themes changed on NSMB2, NSMBWii and NSMBU yeah, but again, castles, ghost houses are too similar. Some people could say it's cohesive yes but it's an easy route I didn't expect from EAD.
They did this with SMB and SMB2-JP, but then with SMB3, World and the first New (or the Land spin-offs) changed the general music and aesthetics.
I was hoping a new 2D Mario game fully redesigned for Switch, and after that a new Mario Maker sequel with more complex tools and the new themes. But this port probably means that my dream still is a bit far away, if at all.
Some visual themes changed on NSMB2, NSMBWii and NSMBU yeah, but again, castles, ghost houses are too similar. Some people could say it's cohesive yes but it's an easy route I didn't expect from EAD.
They did this with SMB and SMB2-JP, but then with SMB3, World and the first New (or the Land spin-offs) changed the general music and aesthetics.
I was hoping a new 2D Mario game fully redesigned for Switch, and after that a new Mario Maker sequel with more complex tools and the new themes. But this port probably means that my dream still is a bit far away, if at all.
The Wii U was already dead when Mario Maker came out. It never stood a chance.
Splatoon came out 2-3 months before and did almost a million more.
The problem was the Wii u, not nsmbu. If they had launched it with Odyssey it still would have died it's quick death from being hardware that nobody wanted.
The Wii u had the most dedicated "core" fans you could possibly get on Nintendo hardware and even then 3d world was only 0.01m sales ahead of NSMBU. And NSMBU had to compete with another nsmb launching within a couple months of it, and Mario maker stealing eol sales on the console.
Meanwhile all 3 other nsmb games have beaten the respective 3d game in sales on the 3DS, Wii and DS. I'm surprised they didn't go out and make a new nsmb game , because it almost certainly would have ended up matching Odyssey, at minimum.
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NSMB strikes me as a game that doesn't inherently sell consoles to skeptical customers, but if you're going to buy one anyway, might as well pick it up. 3D World and Mario Maker probably did more because they were fresher ideas.
Same thing with the Retro DKCs. I can't imagine many people bought a Wii just to play Returns, but everyone already had one, so it did extremely well. Meanwhile Tropical Freeze was a dud on the Wii U and a success on the Switch, entirely because the Wii U was a bomb and the Switch is still selling gangbusters.