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Dinobot

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,126
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
What if Nintendo does have 2 models launching in the next year and a half. What if they actually wait til Spring 2020 to launch the Switch Pro, but the holiday before that, they launch a Switch Slim pushing the current Switch's performance on the go, could also have the new SoC from the Pro model for $200. One thing they can do is make the dock cheaper, the Switch itself could output the signal, and the dock would just be a pass through with USB ports. They can make the dock much smaller too. They can make the tablet ~9 to 10mm instead of 14mm thick and make it passively cooled. The rails would remain the same size and the front of the device would still sit flat with the joycons, but the back of the Switch Slim, could have gentle curves towards the rails, so when the joycons are attached, the back of the device has a slightly wii u gamepad grip. The Pro could then come out in a quiet quarter to push sales, while the slim could help drive the lower price towards kids.

As for technical ability, 16nm consumes 60% less power than 20nm, so the 9 watt SoC when docked, should drop to just 3.6 watts, plus another 2 watts from the rest of the Switch. 12nm is a free TSMC upgrade and has less power leakage, further reduces power consumption. This should bring such a device down below 5 watts and that should make it possible to cool passively, especially given the size of the device.
A passively cooled switch only using half the wattage would double the battery life too which would be great for a slim portable version.

But I think Nintendo should just keep two SKU's. An entry level one (launch Switch plus the 16nm X1's) for $199 and a premium model with the new Mariko chip for $299.
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
A passively cooled switch only using half the wattage would double the battery life too which would be great for a slim portable version.

But I think Nintendo should just keep two SKU's. An entry level one (launch Switch plus the 16nm X1's) for $199 and a premium model with the new Mariko chip for $299.
The launch switch won't be cheaper as it will be more expensive to make
 
Dec 23, 2017
8,802
It isn't towards you specifically, because I actually enjoy your posts, but I detest this idea that they "cheap out". People always say it in these threads, and it's never true. They'll target a level of performance and go with that. It's also true that "hardware" isn't "a catch-all term for the GPU", and it doesn't start and end at the graphics card. So, they'll consider other features. Low-power consumption products aren't "cheap", neither are the Joy-Con elements, nor smaller form factors, and their R&D certainly isn't. In the case of the Switch, they opted for industry-leading chips, and literally the best that they could fit into that form factor at that price.

Returning to the subject of how powerful a Switch successor can be, I have to disagree rather passionately with Zom3le's projections because they assume far too much, and don't consider the possibility of "behind the scenes" or different ideas. I wouldn't lend the same amount of credence to that "leak" from Foxconn, too. It's worth noting that multiple developers and publishers were consulted and involved in the development of the Switch - That was confirmed by EA last year. Getting them on board was an huge priority for Nintendo internally, and the Switch reveal was, in places, a statement of intent. Some of their partners would not support it at all, if there wasn't enough to meet the ambitions of their developers, and they wouldn't be there for the sake of one game, as it wouldn't be worth a publisher's while. To that end, if anything will influence and determine what is possible for the Switch's successor, I would seriously consider publishers such as Square-Enix and Bethesda. We know that TES V: Skyrim was successful on the Switch, and flagship Final Fantasy games are back on Nintendo platforms - It would be deeply lamentable for all parties if the next Final Fantasy and Elder Scrolls were not on their successors. Perhaps one could also add Capcom to that list, because Nintendo wouldn't want to miss a Monster Hunter title.
Thanks. I just feel they should go all in on the next switch. We all understand the switch is a unique console that needs a unique SoC to power it. I hope we get the best out of the partnership with Nvidia and Nintendo. I think they need to change the design if they have to for the clocks to run at a higher speed. I think they need to focus on being more modern than just beefy hardware. Nvidia are masters at what they do and I really hope the next switch pushes the concept of the hybrid switch design even further. I'm happy with my Switch and what they accomplish with the first iteration. I hope that I am presently surprised at switch 2.
 

Aswitch

"This guy are sick"
Member
Nov 27, 2017
5,132
Los Angeles, CA
I'm guessing it's going to just be a dedicated portable version without the dock that may have permanent joycons attached and will be cheaper....or...smaller? What I would like is a more powerful version or maybe just a more powerful dock if possible. I don't see Nintendo doing making a straight up Switch+, but I wouldn't be surprised if true.
 

Forkball

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,941
LEAK
DpJbcx2U8AASP-m.jpg
 

Instro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,137
From a practical standpoint replacing the current Switch with two models, one focused on power, and the other focused on lower price and battery life, makes a lot of sense. The current Switch on it's older node is probably more expensive to produce than it needs to be, a "Slim" model could probably be produced at 16nm and be priced lower.
 

Skittzo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,037
From a practical standpoint replacing the current Switch with two models, one focused on power, and the other focused on lower price and battery life, makes a lot of sense. The current Switch on it's older node is probably more expensive to produce than it needs to be, a "Slim" model could probably be produced at 16nm and be priced lower.

And again if both of these models are possible using the exact same SoC then that would be another plus. That would save them a ton of money while still being able to offer two different products aimed at two very different markets.
 

Instro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,137
And again if both of these models are possible using the exact same SoC then that would be another plus. That would save them a ton of money while still being able to offer two different products aimed at two very different markets.

That would be my thought, albeit they would presumably cut the GPU core count for the "slim" model for cost.
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
That would be my thought, albeit they would presumably cut the GPU core count for the "slim" model for cost.
the "battery life" one could just be locked to handheld clocks. of course, you'd have to worry about hackers breaking into it and unlocking the gpu clock

but then again, this hypothetical device wouldn't be cheaper unless you cut out a lot of other stuff (that can't be added on with accessories)
 

z0m3le

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,418
the "battery life" one could just be locked to handheld clocks. of course, you'd have to worry about hackers breaking into it and unlocking the gpu clock

but then again, this hypothetical device wouldn't be cheaper unless you cut out a lot of other stuff (that can't be added on with accessories)

Dropping the dock and a different amount of internal storage, might be able to get the price difference they are looking for. Even $229 and $299 wouldn't be too bad here.
 

Skittzo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,037
the "battery life" one could just be locked to handheld clocks. of course, you'd have to worry about hackers breaking into it and unlocking the gpu clock

but then again, this hypothetical device wouldn't be cheaper unless you cut out a lot of other stuff (that can't be added on with accessories)

You can potentially get rid of the fan and use a smaller battery, and those savings would probably come close to offseting the change in chip cost if not being greater. Then you can sell it without the dock for probably $225 or so. Maybe less.
 

Skittzo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,037
Again, that's sold as a "second" switch for homes that already have a dock. It's also just $40 directly from nintendo's own Japanese online store

But that's exactly the point. This is supposed to be a Switch that's more geared to handheld users, to attempt to fill in for the 3DS. Just like with homes that already have a dock this model wouldn't necessarily need to include a dock if it's going to be primarily used as a handheld.
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
But that's exactly the point. This is supposed to be a Switch that's more geared to handheld users, to attempt to fill in for the 3DS. Just like with homes that already have a dock this model wouldn't necessarily need to include a dock if it's going to be primarily used as a handheld.
if they wanted to fill the gap for the 3DS, they wouldn't release this as a website only product. you're misreading the situation
 
Oct 25, 2017
658
I think it just shows how they aren't super interested as selling it as a handheld but that there is a market for it in Japan even if it's still fairly niche there.
 

Skittzo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,037
if they wanted to fill the gap for the 3DS, they wouldn't release this as a website only product. you're misreading the situation

No I don't mean the Japan-only, Nintendo store-only Switch was supposed to fill the gap left by the 3DS, but rather that's what I think this new revision is supposed to do. I think it'll come in at a cheaper, more accessible price and at least one SKU will not include the dock, which will knock off another $40-50 off the price.

I brought up the existing dockless SKU to show that it does cut a fairly reasonable amount off of the price of the thing, and I was responding to Cartridge Games saying that the two situations (this new handheld-like revision and the existing dockless SKU) have something in common- they are (based on what I'm predicting) supposed to appeal to people who have little to no need of a dock.
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,617
I've mentioned it a few times, but again, people are reading too into the dockless SKU.
Nintendo selling something directly from their own online store saves a lot more than retailers stocking and taking a cut.
Additionally, they gut it removing a ton of things like the AC adaptor and the joy con grip.

After all that, they just made it like $40 cheaper and positioned it exclusively as something for families that already have a switch.

Don't think a cheaper handheld only system is happening or that the removing the dock would save that much money
 
Oct 25, 2017
658
I think the point tho is that if they did want to offer something for the "handheld" market, they have options before making a new model that is explicitly just a handheld.
 

Pokemaniac

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,944
Hopefully if it's a Switch Pro there'll be a new dock that can output 4k. I don't care if there are literally no games that use it, it'll substantially improve how well things upscale.
 

Skyzar

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,539
Hoping for a good d-pad built into the joycons, more battery life, a little more comfortable and quite a bit cheaper.
Been holding off quite easily but it would be nice to get a new portable for the indies. Vita isn't getting much indie love these days and I'd love to play Dead Cells after hearing great things. Though I heard it's not great on switch due to performance :/
I still worry it would be too big and goofy to carry on a daily commute.
Hopefully they get a marble game like Kororinpa out by then to actually make use of HD rumble. It's pretty insane that hasn't happened yet, unless I missed it?
 
Oct 25, 2017
658
Honestly Dead Cells is fine on Switch, the performance stuff is overblown and they committed to fixing what problems it does have with a big patch in November. I had Dead Cells on PC for a long time but as soon as it hit Switch I never went back to that version. I've put over 75 hours into the Switch version at this time.
 

Skyzar

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,539
Good to hear, also about the patch, thanks. I skipped the PC version knowing I'll want to play it on a handheld.
 

Dinobot

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,126
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
I think the number one thing i want in this revision is a Bluetooth chip. The fact I can't use my wireless Bluetooth headphones when docked or even undocked in a device that came out in 2017 is baffling.

Bluetooth 5.0
HDMI 2.0
HDR support
New WiFi chip

That's my asking list.
 

Skittzo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,037
I think the number one thing i want in this revision is a Bluetooth chip. The fact I can't use my wireless Bluetooth headphones when docked or even undocked in a device that came out in 2017 is baffling.

Bluetooth 5.0
HDMI 2.0
HDR support
New WiFi chip

That's my asking list.

I thought the Switch actually had all the hardware necessary for that, it's just a particular license that they don't want to pay for.
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,617
Something I'm not had been mentioned much, but Nintendo should really push for a lot more internal storage on switch.
Indies are a massive part of the switch library and cartridge costs are high enough that it greatly incentivses digital sales.
You could just add in an SD card like 3DS. But internal storage is useful for everyone, even those that already have a bigger SD card than Nintendo could bundle in
 

YolkFolk

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,212
The North, England
Thinking about it, the true next generation Pokemon sequel is out late next year.

Makes sense to have a smaller 2DS XL like formed version of the Switch on sale at the same time to attract the younger gamers.

Switch S

- Similar size and form to a 2DS XL
- Controls built into the hardware
- Mini dock/stand compatibility
- Wirelessly compatible with Joy Cons and Pro Controller
- Works with all Switch software

Cost savings through no joy cons and could potentially have the mini dock/stand sold separately as well for further savings.

It's the sort of model that wouldn't upset current owners either as many would consider the current version superior and a more 'hardcore' device than the smaller, pocket friendly version.
 

fiendcode

Member
Oct 26, 2017
24,981
Something I'm not had been mentioned much, but Nintendo should really push for a lot more internal storage on switch.
Indies are a massive part of the switch library and cartridge costs are high enough that it greatly incentivses digital sales.
You could just add in an SD card like 3DS. But internal storage is useful for everyone, even those that already have a bigger SD card than Nintendo could bundle in
I'd be surprised if a Switch revision didn't jump to at least 64GB. Maybe higher even if it's a more premium revision intended to hold $299.
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
Sounds like "pro" kits are in devs' hands. Maybe the SoC change is finalized but everything else (like screen, storage, etc) isn't
 

GasProblem

Prophet of Truth
Member
Nov 18, 2017
3,169
Wouldn't mind a Switch Pro for a better handheld performance in some games. Hope I wont have to pay more then €100 to upgrade with trade-in value.
 

YolkFolk

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,212
The North, England
I think a Switch Pro would just be a version with a 1080p screen where the handheld performance matched the docked performance, with some extra storage space thrown in as well.
 

Bowser

Member
Nov 7, 2017
2,814
This is from the other thread:



So now that's two of the most reputable insiders saying a pro exists. I guess the question is, is the pro the one this article is about? Seems pretty likely to me now.
Seems likely to me as well. I believe we will see two new versions next year, with both featuring a new design and a better screen as well.

- One with a new chip, more RAM, will replace the current Switch and will become the standard model. Sold for 330 euros.

- A second Switch, branded probably as "Lite" or sth similar, with the same internals as the current model, probably cheaper to produce. Sold for around 250 euros without dock.

I don't think they'll use the "Pro" branding tho, they'll just have these two models with one being marketed at kids and younger audience. Both will run all games, one simply will do it better. So if you're interested in MP4 you'll get the Standard model, while if you care about Pokémon or Animal Crossing you can get the Lite model.
 

Dark Cloud

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
61,087
#TeamPro4theWin

Like I've said 20 times. You do a Switch Pro and show Metroid Prime 4 on it. I would'nt be surprised if Metroid Prime 4 gameplay is revealed at The Game Awards that it's running on this new Switch "Pro".
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
I think a Switch Pro would just be a version with a 1080p screen where the handheld performance matched the docked performance, with some extra storage space thrown in as well.
A 1080p screen would be bad. There are few 1080p games to begin with so the IQ will suffer and you'll get increased battery draw on top of that
 

Zoon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,397
I could see Nintendo selling 3 SKUs next year.
Switch lite/handheld only: Basically what is currently being sold in Japan. ~200-230
Current Switch price dropped to 250-280
Pro/new Switch sold for 330-350
 

Skittzo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,037
I'm just really curious whether or not they will allow exclusive ports which can't run on the base Switch.

I really think that would be an enormous mistake less than 3 years into the Switch's life, at least in terms of goodwill. There will be probably close to 40 million if not more Switch owners pissed off that they can't get some games.

Unless they come up with a cheap SCD upgrade for those Switch owners or something. Like a modern N64 expansion pack.
 

Lelouch0612

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,200
I'm just really curious whether or not they will allow exclusive ports which can't run on the base Switch.

I really think that would be an enormous mistake less than 3 years into the Switch's life, at least in terms of goodwill. There will be probably close to 40 million if not more Switch owners pissed off that they can't get some games.

Unless they come up with a cheap SCD upgrade for those Switch owners or something. Like a modern N64 expansion pack.

I think Nintendo wont put exclusive games on it.

It is quite simple, there will be like 35/40m Switch in the wild before the revision hits, it would be dumb to make game unavailable to this userbase (unless it is niche).

However you could see 3rd party games running bad on the current Switch and good on the Pro but that's fair.
 

K Samedi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,991
I'm just really curious whether or not they will allow exclusive ports which can't run on the base Switch.

I really think that would be an enormous mistake less than 3 years into the Switch's life, at least in terms of goodwill. There will be probably close to 40 million if not more Switch owners pissed off that they can't get some games.

Unless they come up with a cheap SCD upgrade for those Switch owners or something. Like a modern N64 expansion pack.

I dont think its that big of a deal. I think Nintendo will probably release everything on both Switch and Switch pro but there are quite a few third party games that are out of reach of the OG Switch which could find a home on Switch pro.

Its basically a question of who you want to target. The people that want the convenience of the Switch yet find the performance of the ports too low could get converted to Switch hardware with a pro model. I really wouldnt mind pro exclusives if it means more people will join the Switch eco system. I think its in the best interest of Nintendo if the Switch becomes a primary gaming device instead of a Nintendo/indie box.
 

Dark Cloud

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
61,087
I think Nintendo wont put exclusive games on it.

It is quite simple, there will be like 35/40m Switch in the wild before the revision hits, it would be dumb to make game unavailable to this userbase (unless it is niche).

However you could see 3rd party games running bad on the current Switch and good on the Pro but that's fair.
This. I can never see Nintendo making games exclusive in this situation (we know about XC on 3DS). 3rd parties should put their games out on both. If it looks like shit on the OG switch oh well. Atleast it's there for those who don't want to upgrade.
 
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