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Jersey_Tom

Banned
Dec 2, 2017
4,764
Minorities don't say they know a cop because they would have to prove it anyway.

The internet tough guy shouldn't even be on the force if he thought it was going to give his family freebies.
That's the point.
That no one ever drilled it into them that they're not there to act like the mob from the Godfather is mindblowing on so many level.
The existense of the PBA is a slap in the face to anyone thinking that the police force is doing its job.

So if you believe that monorities wouldn't be served by telling cops they know other cops then why suggest that a PBA card would have solved anything? Seems a bit inconsistent.

I hate to break it to you but like any job, cops have amongst their ranks entitled morons who think they're owed something. Unfortunately that's life. Should they be on the force? Probably not, just as I know quite a few people who shouldn't be camera ops, video or audio engineers, editors, production assistants or stage managers. Due to anonymity or because of circumstance though these people stick around. It sucks but for some that's the cost of doing business when you don't have a line out of the door of people who want their job.

And I think that's a tad far by saying that the existence of the PBA is an affront to society. The sheer existence of a union for any group of workers isn't a bad thing. Now if we want to talk specifics, do they go out of their way to try and protect their members in unfortunate scenarios like Eric Garner? Absolutely. However establishing labor guidelines for cops is just as important as it is for teachers, electrical workers, stagehands or any other profession really. And in that respect the PBA of New York isn't doing its job very well considering that salaries are low, training is often inadequate, and staffing is lean. It was only just a year ago that the union and the city after five years of negotiations tentatively agreed to a new contract for officers which hasn't really sunk in yet. In that respect the PBA hasn't really been serving anyone well.
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
16,900
So if you believe that monorities wouldn't be served by telling cops they know other cops then why suggest that a PBA card would have solved anything? Seems a bit inconsistent.

I hate to break it to you but like any job, cops have amongst their ranks entitled morons who think they're owed something. Unfortunately that's life. Should they be on the force? Probably not, just as I know quite a few people who shouldn't be camera ops, video or audio engineers, editors, production assistants or stage managers. Due to anonymity or because of circumstance though these people stick around. It sucks but for some that's the cost of doing business when you don't have a line out of the door of people who want their job.

And I think that's a tad far by saying that the existence of the PBA is an affront to society. The sheer existence of a union for any group of workers isn't a bad thing. Now if we want to talk specifics, do they go out of their way to try and protect their members in unfortunate scenarios like Eric Garner? Absolutely. However establishing labor guidelines for cops is just as important as it is for teachers, electrical workers, stagehands or any other profession really. And in that respect the PBA of New York isn't doing its job very well considering that salaries are low, training is often inadequate, and staffing is lean. It was only just a year ago that the union and the city after five years of negotiations tentatively agreed to a new contract for officers which hasn't really sunk in yet. In that respect the PBA hasn't really been serving anyone well.
Hey if you're ok with corruption in the police force however minor, at least be honest with it.
It's even debatable that the police even need a union to begin with (even moreso when you consider how many companies will just fire employees for even thinking about forming a union, meaning that the police force afford another layer of protection most citizen could even dream off).
And no, just because the police work is shit, badly paid and hilariously ill trained doesn't mean that having a union sanctionned corruption card is ok.
 

Mehdren

Member
Oct 27, 2017
304
Scotland
I had to triple check this wasn't a 'The Onion' article, and I'm still not sure what I'm reading.

It's just so blatant that it's absurd.
 

Jersey_Tom

Banned
Dec 2, 2017
4,764
Apologies, I didn't mean to cherry pick. The original post:



What I thought you were saying is that the officer uses their own discretion even in the absence of this card, and then you got into the fact they don't write the laws but are supposed to enforce them, implying that they may not even want to pull people over for stuff like speeding. That's when you said they're there to protect and serve but they're also human beings.

But this thread is talking about the existence of this card and its influence in determining a police officer's judgement. Nobody is saying they don't have leeway into whether or not they stop people or give tickets. Even taking out the connection between these cards and family members (and there is a strong connection there), it did seem to me like you were excusing this practice because eh, they're human and they're doing a job.

The human aspect to it is entirely to make the point that these officers are capable of making their own judgements at time and are not in fact robots. There's no machine they carry with them with a slot reading "insert PBA card here" to redeem a warning instead of a ticket. Maybe knowing someone on the force can affect a cop's decision. It has in some respects in others it hasn't. I myself have two brothers, and full disclosure, my family has ties with members of law enforcement across New Jersey. We have PBA cards. Now my brothers have had very different interactions with police. One I know has never recieved a speeding ticket though he's been pulled over a couple of times. The other almost always recieves one. I myself have had varying degrees of this, there were times where I was pulled over and got a ticket and others where I was given a warning. At that point it's luck of the draw based on the officer and a whole host of circumstances. I mean the make and model of your car could have as much to do with how an officer approaches a speeding violation as anything else because of the human element to a stop. It's not always fair but hey, if we're going to be arguing about people not being fair then we're all gonna be left wanting coming out of this thread.
 

The Mad Mango

Member
Oct 27, 2017
798
People in this thread defending these cards because they have one themselves is a classic example of privilege creating blindness to injustice.

You're literally defending unequal treatment by police. Explain to me how speeding is less of a crime because your uncle is a cop.
 

Jersey_Tom

Banned
Dec 2, 2017
4,764
Hey if you're ok with corruption in the police force however minor, at least be honest with it.
It's even debatable that the police even need a union to begin with (even moreso when you consider how many companies will just fire employees for even thinking about forming a union, meaning that the police force afford another layer of protection most citizen could even dream off).
And no, just because the police work is shit, badly paid and hilariously ill trained doesn't mean that having a union sanctionned corruption card is ok.

I'm not sure I see your point here. "Needing" a union and the existence of them are not mutually exclusive, to suggest such a thing is a bit absurd. It almost sounds like you want to blame the PBA for simply existing which I wonder if you extend that to teachers unions or industrial unions since not every company or industry has union representation.

And I have a hard time labeling the cards as corruption. As they currently exist and as we just demonstrated you also don't believe that just claiming to know a cop or possessing a card that suggests you know one will automatically get you out of something. There's nothing dishonest about the fact that how a cop treats a violation is for the most part entirely up to their discretion. What would be unethical would be discriminatory practices based on established things such as race, gender, religious affiliation, what have you. Possessing a PBA card is so down there that you have a tough time convincing me that this is some egregious abuse of authority that is both dishonest and unethical, especially considering as we established it's not a 100% guaranteed "get out of jail free" card that people are making it out to be.
 

zashga

Losing is fun
Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,226
Wow, glad I don't live in NYC. Cops are brazen there.

Shame on anyone who supports or benefits from this practice.
 

Fuzzy

Completely non-threatening
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
18,174
Toronto
This is kinda like what I used to do with a Toronto Police union newsletter I found. I'd leave it on my dash and then not pay for parking and wouldn't get a ticket because they obviously thought I was one of them or a family member. I remember my friend being in awe once when every car on the street got a ticket except for mine.
 

BLEEN

Member
Oct 27, 2017
21,934
I didn't read thru this thread but I believe they're referencing Gold Cards. They're a big thing over in NJ too. They work pretty well and have gotten me out of some bullshit tickets before when I was younger. That said, I was young and mischievous, but I don't think they should be handed out anymore.

The way they work is, you call the number on the card and talk to the cop on the other line who gave it to ya and they vouch for you and let ya off with a warning. Pretty sure that's what this is in reference to. Correct me if I'm wrong.
 

BLEEN

Member
Oct 27, 2017
21,934
This is kinda like what I used to do with a Toronto Police union newsletter I found. I'd leave it on my dash and then not pay for parking and wouldn't get a ticket because they obviously thought I was one of them or a family member. I remember my friend being in awe once when every car on the street got a ticket except for mine.
lol smart thinking
 

mrmoose

Member
Nov 13, 2017
21,285
I didn't read thru this thread but I believe they're referencing Gold Cards. They're a big thing over in NJ too. They work pretty well and have gotten me out of some bullshit tickets before when I was younger. That said, I was young and mischievous, but I don't think they should be handed out anymore.

The way they work is, you call the number on the card and talk to the cop on the other line who gave it to ya and they vouch for you and let ya off with a warning. Pretty sure that's what this is in reference to. Correct me if I'm wrong.

From what I gather reading this thread, there are different levels of cards, with Gold card being more up there (correct me if I'm wrong), and this is even more incredible than just the existence of the card itself. I mean there are sneetches with one star and then there are sneetches with multiple stars upon thars. Like why does there need to be a different level where you can stick a badge sticker on your window?
 

tommy7154

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,370
I can't even...is there proof of this? This isn't an Onion article. I checked and then checked again and it still isn't.

Where are the good guys? We need some heroes.
 

RedBlue

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,368
Queens, NY
Saw a lady that works at my daughter's school park on a hydrant and pull out an NYPD traffic vest and put it on her dashboard today. She left her car there all day, was still there when I picked my daughter up. Lady is not an officer, she is an aid at the school.
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
16,900
And I have a hard time labeling the cards as corruption.
And that's basically the crux of the matter here.
The rest is fluff, if you don't see this as corruption or even a symbol of systemic corruption there's barely anything to discuss.
There's bigger problems than mere corruption to deal with anyway but let's not kid ourselves and claim that corruption is not a problem either.
 

Jersey_Tom

Banned
Dec 2, 2017
4,764
I didn't read thru this thread but I believe they're referencing Gold Cards. They're a big thing over in NJ too. They work pretty well and have gotten me out of some bullshit tickets before when I was younger. That said, I was young and mischievous, but I don't think they should be handed out anymore.

The way they work is, you call the number on the card and talk to the cop on the other line who gave it to ya and they vouch for you and let ya off with a warning. Pretty sure that's what this is in reference to. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I believe they're talking about these cards actually.

images


s-l225.jpg
 

mrmoose

Member
Nov 13, 2017
21,285
Also, if they don't work or they're not always meant to work, then why to the police officers care that they're getting less cards?
 

F34R

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,014
I can't even...is there proof of this? This isn't an Onion article. I checked and then checked again and it still isn't.

Where are the good guys? We need some heroes.
I've had some given to me when I stopped some people for speeding. I didn't honor them. I posted earlier in the thread about it.
 

mrmoose

Member
Nov 13, 2017
21,285
I've had some given to me when I stopped some people for speeding. I didn't honor them. I posted earlier in the thread about it.

Just because I'm curious: were the cards from your jurisdiction? Did you contact the officer who issued the cards? Did you keep the cards? I'm mainly curious because that other forum seemed to indicate that if you don't comply, you're some kind of rogue cop who doesn't value the shield and protecting each others families or some such nonsense.
 

Fate

Member
Oct 27, 2017
137
As a black male who gets a few of these cards ( in addition to having a family badge) they have been useful to me when getting pulled over. Certainly changed the looks on certain officers faces and their attitude when they saw how connected I was.

In many aspects of life, the concept of who you know aids you, networking etc so idk I don't really see it as corruption. Not to mention that the cards do not have to be honored. If there is no phone number and signature on the back they usually do not even consider it credible either.
 

Mest08

Alt Account
Banned
Oct 30, 2017
1,184
How is this any different then friends and families getting discounts at a store when they know someone who works there?
 

Wowfunhappy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,102
As a black male who gets a few of these cards ( in addition to having a family badge) they have been useful to me when getting pulled over. Certainly changed the looks on certain officers faces and their attitude when they saw how connected I was.

In many aspects of life, the concept of who you know aids you, networking etc so idk I don't really see it as corruption. Not to mention that the cards do not have to be honored. If there is no phone number and signature on the back they usually do not even consider it credible either.

I think the bolded is pretty important. These aren't official licenses to speed or something.

I do think it's still pretty corrupt though. Yes networking matters for getting a job and such, but the law should be applied equally to everyone. Or at least, that's the goal we should be working towards, and cards like this clearly work against that goal.

My Dad was given one of these a while back. He got rid of it because he said it felt wrong.
 
Last edited:

Fate

Member
Oct 27, 2017
137
I think the bolded is pretty important. These aren't official licenses to speed or something. I do think it's still pretty corrupt though. Yes networking matters for getting a job and such, but the law should be applied equally to everyone. Or at least, that's the goal we should be working towards, and cards like this clearly work against that goal.

My Dad was given one of these a while back. He got rid of it because he said it felt wrong.

What about people who get off from tickets because they give an excuse the officer deemed credible enough or because the officer was in a good mood/decided to be nice etc

Are those people not getting off, and the law not being applied equally to them? Because that definitely occurs regardless of these plastic cards even existing
 

F34R

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,014
Just because I'm curious: were the cards from your jurisdiction? Did you contact the officer who issued the cards? Did you keep the cards? I'm mainly curious because that other forum seemed to indicate that if you don't comply, you're some kind of rogue cop who doesn't value the shield and protecting each others families or some such nonsense.
No. I've never seen something like that from South Carolina. I'm sure they exist here, I've just never seen them. The times someone has tried to pass them to me to get help on a ticket, that has all be outside my jurisdiction, and state for that matter. I did have a couple cops from those jurisdictions call me and ask why I didn't help their "friend". Each time the person that had the card had a really bad attitude and argued that those cards are universal and should work in any state. One of the guys told me to call the cop on the card and he'll explain it for me since I was dumb. I've been talked to about being that rogue cop, not honoring the badge, blah blah, from cops in other jurisdictions. I have no problem with setting things straight in person or on the phone. I don't give special treatment to anyone because they know someone, or they work somewhere. Doing so, in and of itself, dishonors what I took an oath for my service.
 

Jersey_Tom

Banned
Dec 2, 2017
4,764
There's bigger problems than mere corruption to deal with anyway but let's not kid ourselves and claim that corruption is not a problem either.

Don't know if this is sarcasm from you, but assuming it is I never suggested corruption isn't a serious issue to be looked at. I just happen to think this example being touted as egregious corruption is a bit overblown.

Also, if they don't work or they're not always meant to work, then why to the police officers care that they're getting less cards?

Who likes it when their job starts limiting supposed benefits? There's a large set of guys who think this will help someone in their family's cause in the event of a stop. But there's also the implicit understanding that it won't help them.

That and of course who wants to have the discussion with a friend or family member who used to benefit from a perk of your job that they didn't make the cut this year? Bit of an awkward conversation to have.
 

dusteatingbug

Member
Dec 1, 2017
1,393
What about people who get off from tickets because they give an excuse the officer deemed credible enough or because the officer was in a good mood/decided to be nice etc

Are those people not getting off, and the law not being applied equally to them? Because that definitely occurs regardless of these plastic cards even existing

The officer has case-by-case discretion as to whether they should let someone off with a warning or whatever. Yes. Obviously.

But "these plastic cards" give people an advantage not based on the actual case but entirely based on whether they personally know a cop. That's not a cop exercising their judgement about a traffic stop, that's asking that the cop put tribalism above what their job purportedly is.

I honestly cannot believe people are defending these cards. It's not some huge atrocity, but it's very obviously unfair and corrupt.
 

Sincerest

Member
Jan 22, 2018
606
As part of the force, this thread was tough to read through, but It is necessary for me to read what you all think of me.

It's not going to mean much to many of you, but I promise I'm trying my best and I am trying to make a difference.
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
16,900
Don't know if this is sarcasm from you, but assuming it is I never suggested corruption isn't a serious issue to be looked at. I just happen to think this example being touted as egregious corruption is a bit overblown.
And this is exactly what the corrupt mayor of my French town is saying.
"it's not a big deal, it's way overblown, I did nothing wrong".
To make it seems like it's not a big deal you can't even label it as corruption or you immediately get that it's a pretty serious issue.
Some will say that some cases of corruptions are not really that bad, it's friends helping other friends and all that jazz.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,669
What about people who get off from tickets because they give an excuse the officer deemed credible enough or because the officer was in a good mood/decided to be nice etc

Are those people not getting off, and the law not being applied equally to them? Because that definitely occurs regardless of these plastic cards even existing
That's up to that cop in that instance, the card on the other hand, which can be given to friends or family, who in turn can give it to whoever they want gives them a higher chance of skirting the law that without simply cuz they have the card

Edit:What dusteatingbug said
 

Wowfunhappy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,102
What about people who get off from tickets because they give an excuse the officer deemed credible enough or because the officer was in a good mood/decided to be nice etc

Are those people not getting off, and the law not being applied equally to them? Because that definitely occurs regardless of these plastic cards even existing

Just to add to what dusteatingbug said (which I agree with), no one is saying that police officers are 100% fair or nondiscriminatory in the absence of these cards. But if the goal is to move towards equal, unbiased law enforcement, are these cards moving us closer to or away from that goal? I think the answer to that question is pretty obvious.
 

EdibleKnife

Member
Oct 29, 2017
7,723
And this is exactly what the corrupt mayor of my French town is saying.
"it's not a big deal, it's way overblown, I did nothing wrong".
To make it seems like it's not a big deal you can't even label it as corruption or you immediately get that it's a pretty serious issue.
Some will say that some cases of corruptions are not really that bad, it's friends helping other friends and all that jazz.
Right? At the end of the day, this is an allowance to skirt the law and the "It's not that serious" excuse is used for everything regarding skirting the law. If someone who doesn't have one of these cards can still be hauled away for the same crime if they say "it's not so serious" something is imbalanced. And again, we're only talking about this because police are literally demanding more so they have a value on some level
 

Fate

Member
Oct 27, 2017
137
I absolutely agree the cards are unfair, I won't deny that. I just find that there are many aspects of life in which who you know gives you an unfair advantage and I guess that ( in addition to having access to these cards myself) is why I don't find as much of an issue with it.

That said, you guys make valid points. And it wouldn't be the end of the world for me to lose access to them but I personally don't intentionally speed or try and get away with things I know I might not without them.
 

III-V

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,827
the outrage is so indicative of the culture, and yet, people are still outraged, and even upset that y'all don't know how it works and why its just fine
 

EdibleKnife

Member
Oct 29, 2017
7,723
I absolutely agree the cards are unfair, I won't deny that. I just find that there are many aspects of life in which who you know gives you an unfair advantage and I guess that ( in addition to having access to these cards myself) is why I don't find as much of an issue with it.

That said, you guys make valid points. And it wouldn't be the end of the world for me to lose access to them but I personally don't intentionally speed or try and get away with things I know I might not without them.
Like Wowfunhappy said above: the goal shouldn't be to make bigger striations. In regards to just the law, you're right, some people have unfair advantages. Some people can afford lawyers good enough to make sure they only spend a night in jail for a crime another person might never see their family again for. But the goal should be to reduce those instances to a point where things get fairer and fairer rather than creating more unfair advantages through other parameters.
 

Compbros

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,603
I thought this was a known thing. I used to listen to the Opie and Anthony show and members said several times how they used these cards and even getting frustrated when the cards were ignored or brushed off.
 

TAJ

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
12,446
Don't pay that any mind. It's a lie. They're driving by and posting stupid shit to get attention and get a rise out of you.

I'm willing to believe them because I used to work with (and be next-door neighbors with) someone who got out of not two but seven DUIs just because he knew a chief.
 

I Don't Like

Member
Dec 11, 2017
14,953
People in this thread defending these cards because they have one themselves is a classic example of privilege creating blindness to injustice.

You're literally defending unequal treatment by police. Explain to me how speeding is less of a crime because your uncle is a cop.

It really is insane. You happen to know or be the relative of a cop and that makes you worthy of being treated differently under the law?????

Anyone who still compares this to getting free perks at a business is, for lack of a better word, dumb.
 

ProfessorLobo

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
1,523
As part of the force, this thread was tough to read through, but It is necessary for me to read what you all think of me.

It's not going to mean much to many of you, but I promise I'm trying my best and I am trying to make a difference.

This is the first time you've posted, so this thread probably doesn't apply to you unless you knowingly partake in this scheme. And if you do, then yes you're being judged and probably will continue to be unless you actively try and stop this program.
 

tommy7154

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,370
the outrage is so indicative of the culture, and yet, people are still outraged, and even upset that y'all don't know how it works and why its just fine
How does this work and why is it just fine?

I feel like I'm slowly entering some alternate universe. I wish I was. That way there'd be some slim chance I could get back somehow.
 

III-V

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,827
How does this work and why is it just fine?

I feel like I'm slowly entering some alternate universe. I wish I was. That way there'd be some slim chance I could get back somehow.
I am simply pointing out the hypocrisy of it all, I do not condone, support or otherwise engage in any behavior.
 

Deleted member 12224

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,113
I believe they're talking about these cards actually.

images


s-l225.jpg
Yeah, those cards, in particular, are kinda bullshit but also the lowest level of corrupt privileges.

Family Gold Cards, which aren't surrendered on a traffic stop, where the officer calls in to confirm the named officer (after you disclose relation) is who they say they are, that's a good deal worse.

"I know a cop, he gave me this tacky business card, let me off easy this one time on a 75 in a 65" versus "my uncle/godfather is a cop, he gave me this shiny gold plated card I keep right next to my license, I'll be moving along with the rest of my day, yes?"
 

Jersey_Tom

Banned
Dec 2, 2017
4,764
And this is exactly what the corrupt mayor of my French town is saying.
"it's not a big deal, it's way overblown, I did nothing wrong".
To make it seems like it's not a big deal you can't even label it as corruption or you immediately get that it's a pretty serious issue.
Some will say that some cases of corruptions are not really that bad, it's friends helping other friends and all that jazz.

Well I sympathize with the plight of those citizens in France. That's a horrible level of corruption you're alledging, something which I think goes far and away above anything that we're talking about. This is likely a very personal issue for you and I respect that.

But you and I clearly have a fundamental difference of opinion about the severity of this particular issue. I've attempted through my posts to illustrate why I at least don't view these cards in as negative a light a bit more eloquently than just "it's not a big deal" as you say the mayor of that town does.

Just to add to what dusteatingbug said (which I agree with), no one is saying that police officers are 100% fair or nondiscriminatory in the absence of these cards. But if the goal is to move towards equal, unbiased law enforcement, are these cards moving us closer to or away from that goal? I think the answer to that question is pretty obvious.

Eh. What does equal AND unbiased law enforcement look like though? Because honestly, I feel like it looks a lot like the world of the Justice Lords.



People asking for a 100% unbiased law enforcement I don't think truly understand what that means. It would mean not looking the other way at all for minor offenses. You can argue that certain laws or ordinances shouldn't be in the books as some have but then that begs the question where is the line?

The cards themselves I maintain don't add as much of a chance of getting off as people are thinking it does. I think it carries as much weight as a whole host of factors. I'm not gonna start getting on people who have Mets license plate borders if they happen to speed in an area patrolled by Mets fans for instance. The same effect of these cards could also be achieved by just having a cop's business card in your wallet. And as I've demonstrated, that's still no guarantee that changes how things will go in your favor.
 

Sincerest

Member
Jan 22, 2018
606
This is the first time you've posted, so this thread probably doesn't apply to you unless you knowingly partake in this scheme. And if you do, then yes you're being judged and probably will continue to be unless you actively try and stop this program.

I understand where you're coming from; But it applies to all NYPD members, since they get two printed a year automatically.

For actively putting an end to it, I would love to hear your suggestion, as an insider it seems like an impossible task.

And yeah, first time posting. Been lurking this website since it started (and 5 years on that last website). I guess I finally wanted to get involved in the conversation and at the very least, let you guys know that I am listening to you all.
 

PanickyFool

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,947
People asking for a 100% unbiased law enforcement I don't think truly understand what that means. It would mean not looking the other way at all for minor offenses. You can argue that certain laws or ordinances shouldn't be in the books as some have but then that begs the question where is the line?
Teddy Roosevelt, Police Commissioner, NYC.

See book, "Island of Vice."
 

The Mad Mango

Member
Oct 27, 2017
798
People asking for a 100% unbiased law enforcement I don't think truly understand what that means. It would mean not looking the other way at all for minor offenses. You can argue that certain laws or ordinances shouldn't be in the books as some have but then that begs the question where is the line?

The cards themselves I maintain don't add as much of a chance of getting off as people are thinking it does. I think it carries as much weight as a whole host of factors. I'm not gonna start getting on people who have Mets license plate borders if they happen to speed in an area patrolled by Mets fans for instance. The same effect of these cards could also be achieved by just having a cop's business card in your wallet. And as I've demonstrated, that's still no guarantee that changes how things will go in your favor.

Jersey, no one here is asking police to be on RoboCop levels of unbiased. We're not talking about cops letting off people because they're both Mets fans. We're talking about cops letting off people because they have department-approved cards that can only be obtained if you have inside connections. It's institutionally-sanctioned bias. It doesn't matter how effective or ineffective they are. They shouldn't exist, period. If they're really as trivial as you claim, then no one will complain if they go away.
 

EdibleKnife

Member
Oct 29, 2017
7,723
Jersey, no one here is asking police to be on RoboCop levels of unbiased. We're not talking about cops letting off people because they're both Mets fans. We're talking about cops letting off people because they have department-approved cards that can only be obtained if you have inside connections. It's institutionally-sanctioned bias. It doesn't matter how effective or ineffective they are. They shouldn't exist, period. If they're really as trivial as you claim, then no one will complain if they go away.
Way to put it. Institutionally-sanctioned bias. This is a level beyond personal biases. And again it should be stated, we're in a topic where police are explicitly "livid" because they can't get more. These are the very people benefiting from their existence arguing for more. At this point, you cannot suggest in good faith that anything about these cards is "trivial/doesn't carry much weight".
 

Jersey_Tom

Banned
Dec 2, 2017
4,764
Jersey, no one here is asking police to be on RoboCop levels of unbiased. We're not talking about cops letting off people because they're both Mets fans. We're talking about cops letting off people because they have department-approved cards that can only be obtained if you have inside connections. It's institutionally-sanctioned bias. It doesn't matter how effective or ineffective they are. They shouldn't exist, period. If they're really as trivial as you claim, then no one will complain if they go away.

Department approved is a stretch given that these are issued from the union, not the department. Technically speaking there's nothing illegal about the cards so there's nothing that the departments or the city can do to disallow them, and likely would come across as antagonizing the union itself since these cards don't explicitly carry value. And it's further complicated by the fact that theoretically speaking the same effect would be gained by just having an officer's business card. So assuming that those union cards are eliminated the same problem would likely exist since in practice the hope is that it's visible enough so a cop thinks you know are somehow affiliated with another cop and that would influence their decision making.