Good lord. This is completely nuts. All it will ever do is make life harder for these people who already have a hard time sustaining themselves.
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[New York Times]: In Denmark, Harsh New Laws for Immigrant ‘Ghettos’
- Thread starter Thisman
- Start date
I'm now curious if Dorthe Pedersen ever took a sick leave of absence or how many foreign languages she speaks.
i feel really happy now that denmark lost yesterday on penalties
the racist-supporting majority of that country can fuck off
i feel sorry for the good people still living there
the racist-supporting majority of that country can fuck off
i feel sorry for the good people still living there
They could impose mandatory day care of all children from a certain age. There's no need to treat these people as actual second class citizens.
Not discriminate.
Also people not learning the language are not really hurting anybody else but themselves.
Yeah that quote is fucking bananas. They are being punished harder for being non-Danish.
That bit about ankle monitors and curfews for youth, woof. That's next-level racist.
That's the only bit that isn't extremely objectionable.
WTF are you talking about?
Makes zero sense.
Imagine coming into a thread about the brutal racism and discrimination of a minority only to parrot racist concerns. If your concern isn't about their oppression and is just about racist critiques, you're probably racist and definitely part of the problem.
Lots of religious orders have conservative weddings where genders are segregated, Jewish people, many Hindus and Mormons. But of course the racist never seems to care about this.
Discriminating them will only push discriminated people to form more closed off communities. Treating them as second class citizen doesn't help them succeed or integrate in any way.
I would imagine that if I would immigrate to China, Japan, South Korea, somewhere in the Middle East that I would learn their holidays as well even if I don't have to celebrate them if I don't want to.
She speaks the language of the country she lives in. If she had to immigrate somewhere I would expect her to learn the language of the new country as well. Should be understandable, right?
Don't know if Denmark has these rules, maybe this is a stronger one because specific groups keep dodging daycare/kindergarten and school, etc. .
To me it kinda seems like damned if you do and damned if you don't, either way some side will scream about the government doing something wrong. Either it is too little effort in integration or it is racist.
My question then would be, how solve this problem? Why do people not integrate into the new country they moved to?
The only parts that I object to is 1 year olds, too early, and it only being used for people in ghettos.
It shouldn't be scandalous to ask people to give some (mandatory classes) to get some (wellfare). That is one path to better integration. This is just too harsh and too narrow.
In my country unemployed people are forced to do certain things too. The only difference for newcomers should be language though. The values part sounds extreme.
What's up anime bro?
True but he would probably take aim of the migrants from Central and South America.
It's not her concern if others learn the language. It shouldn't be your concern either unless you're a social services employee. Yes, not learning the language is a great handicap for any immigrant, but it's not a crime.
Some of these proposals are absolute rubbish and treat them like second-class citizens. If a politician referred to Compton as a ghetto and recommended they double punishments *just for them* they'd be frightfully called racist for it.
Over the years I came to the conclusion that you have to force people to learn the language, etc. . Doesn't matter which country, as long as it doesn't go against moral ideals you should integrate and abide the rules.
Otherwise, how would you counter people simply not integrating? People always criticize everything but nobody ever has any ideas to actually get people to integrate into their new country.
In theory and the idea behind it isn't too bad.
Help the child integrate from a young age especially in regards to language and with that massively improve the child's chances for a better life growing up. Eventually this would also help the mother integrate more as well with the child fully being part of Danish society.
The way they are going about this though seems incredibly harsh and strict
Help the child integrate from a young age especially in regards to language and with that massively improve the child's chances for a better life growing up. Eventually this would also help the mother integrate more as well with the child fully being part of Danish society.
The way they are going about this though seems incredibly harsh and strict
Integration and a greater sense of community are fine ideals, but there is a point where enforcing that ideal can become oppressive
This isn't just Denmark - I loved it there when I visited last year - this 'anxiety' seems to be prevalent across the world at the moment. I still mostly blame the financial crash and making the public pay the price. Its been a perfect storm: the war on terror, Syria, refugee crises, ISIS attacks in Europe, grooming gang stories, moral panics.. People are being motivated by their fear and becoming adversarial instead of thinking about what is actually needed. These are scary times.
This isn't just Denmark - I loved it there when I visited last year - this 'anxiety' seems to be prevalent across the world at the moment. I still mostly blame the financial crash and making the public pay the price. Its been a perfect storm: the war on terror, Syria, refugee crises, ISIS attacks in Europe, grooming gang stories, moral panics.. People are being motivated by their fear and becoming adversarial instead of thinking about what is actually needed. These are scary times.
You really think that's what she cares about? The language? The only thing she cares about is her tax money giving comfort to "outsiders". It's ridiculous to pretend otherwise.
Which is fine. Sending unemployed people to relevant courses is perfectly fine. For some people those relevant courses would be learning the language since that's the skill they lack. That's perfectly fine.
Saying that people from certain areas (ghettos) should be under a different law than people in other areas it's not fine, it's discrimination. The perfect route for apartheid.
The language truly is key. You become isolated if you don't speak the native language, I have seen it with my ex. In a country that speaks fluent English mostly, a lot of doors stay closed for you if you don't speak the language.
They're not AFAIK. Christmas is just a cultural tradition which nowadays has very little to do with Christianity (and didn't come from it in the first place - we still call it Jul (Yule) here). At least that's how it is here in Sweden, and I believe Denmark is very similar in that regard. Christmas and Easter are important traditions to tons of people who are not the least bit religious. So I don't believe this is actually about "making Muslim children Christian", it's about Danish culture and traditions. Which doesn't mean this is the right way to do that, but yeah.
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Danish sounds broken even when natives speak it.
My father is Danish and I never got Danish citizenship because he gave it up to be an American but recently I haven't been so disappointed about that because recently Denmark has been sounding like an arrogant little xenophobic shit of a country. Their immigration laws are already hard as concrete, there's no reason to punish and discriminate against the people that make it through.
Yeah I actually quite like the idea if it's for everyone who's on long term welfare. Those kids generally don't have the same opportunities as kids of working parents, so mixing with richer kids on daycare and getting extra schooling could provide a leg up for them to escape their poor upbringing.
However daycare is hella expensive, so I'm not sure how that can become affordable. In a way I can see the pragmatic side being a stimulus package for designated poor areas with lots of immigrants. It's the punitive side I'm less positive about.
Not that it matters, but Norway and Denmark (among some other countries) still have state religions in the constitution.
Salvini wants the 2019 elections to be a referendum on immigration policy because of course he does - parties like his and NR rely on peoples' fears to drive them to the polls. Arrivals are down massively since 2016 yet everyone seems to think there's a Muslim gang ready to rape you down the street. They're not destroying Europe, we are.
LMAO
Jesus christ
Europeans almost never learn the language of African, Middle Eastern, or Asian countries they immigrate or work in. Like never.
I should have my head examined for trying to correct such an ignorant post. But if you want people to integrate more you have to end job discrimination and racism. You need to invest in their communities. You know how the best way to ensure it doesn't happen? Discriminate against them.
As for learning the language are you seriously claiming the children of immigrants don't learn the language of the country they are born and raised in?
Sweden kind of does too, although we don't have an official state church anymore.
That's what this is aiming at, but it is still making them second class citizens with fewer rights. And I don't see this policy being the end of it. If you already normalize terms like "Ghetto", then it's only a small step to actually enforce segregation and force them (and their children and children's children, etc.) to stay there
I'm referencing the times when people used to point at these homogenous european countries to remark just how fucked up more deeply diverse countries, like the US, were.
White people are the most civilized animal there is until a person of color shows up.
We move abroad with money and generally don't settle permanently, they arrive broke and stay permanently.
Simple as that, really.
We had this talk about civility. When does someone stop with nicely asking someone to do something in a country? We will always have this discussion, one side will scream racism, while the other screams that the government doesn't do anything. I personally think that some government involvement and force is needed because some people just don't want to integrate.
If I would immigrate to Japan, I would consider it normal that they would force me to learn their language. By the way, as far as I know you are forced to learn the Japanese language to stay long term in the country. Communication is important in a human society, if you don't speak the language how do you communicate with others?
I agree that some, even this proposal sounds rubbish. The core idea isn't that bad though, just the execution is lacking. You need to find the right amount of asking and force for both sides to land on the sweat spot.
Yes, this lady in the article might be racist, I don't know her therefore I can't know. But the general idea of learning the language is correct.
You could say that it came from Paganism and "returned" to it over the years despite Christianity co-opting it to gain ground in the past. It really has little to do with religion.
Just because I learned about both doesn't mean I am not a Christian or religious. Same would be for Islam, if I learned about their holidays or general celebrations doesn't mean I am now a believer.
Uh no, it definitely hurts everyone unless they are so old that they don't participate in society. Which is still a problem.
The execution isn't "lacking", it's straight xenophobic and is designed that way to pander to voters.
I think mandatory classes on language are a great idea! The rest is nativist garbage.
LMAO
If you have money, do what you want. If you don't, accept discrimination?
This might be the single most ridiculous post I've come across here. Please think before you write. Or just don't write at all.
The Europeans ones that do stay permanently in Africa, Asia, and the Middle East do not learn the language. Stop defending racist double standards. Racists do that.
Some live INCREDIBLY segregated lives, in communities full of people who speak their "own" language rather than Swedish. So yes, some children of immigrants in these neighborhoods do have rather poor Swedish (and I guess Danish) skills, and don't consider themselves Swedish. That's a big integration problem.
What is this horse shit?
I live in Denmark and this is the first I hear of this. There's nothing about this in Danish news. What are NYTimes sources? I see at the bottom that someone is reporting out of London.
I know the Danish People's Party are a bit out of whack and propose all kinds of bullshit that noone takes seriously and that the government won't approve but, come on, where are they getting this information from?
I live in Denmark and this is the first I hear of this. There's nothing about this in Danish news. What are NYTimes sources? I see at the bottom that someone is reporting out of London.
I know the Danish People's Party are a bit out of whack and propose all kinds of bullshit that noone takes seriously and that the government won't approve but, come on, where are they getting this information from?
Im sure they can. Who cares about someone not going there. The loss of civility however..