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PS5 and Xbox Series speculation |OT11| Cry Havoc and Let Slip the Dogs of War [NEW NEWS, NEW THREAD - CHECK OUT THE STAFF POST]
- Thread starter Transistor
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MS will be using their own API for Ray Tracing
Sony will be using their own API for Ray Tracing.
The only way to counter it is by having an equally/more powerful console, priced at a 100 dollars less. Taking a loss at $399 would nullify Microsoft's strategy.
If Sony did that, the Lockhart would be cancelled and MS would probably try to match the $399 price-point. Which, honestly, would be the best case scenario for all of us.
I really can't wait to see how that game turns out. I was listening to the Ted Price and Phil Spencer podcast and Phil talks about The Coalition, NT and The Initiative all working and sharing ideas, just imagining what these developers can do with all that power is amazing. T10 and PG games next titles should be gorgeous.
RDNA 2 is an off the shelf offering from AMD to any partner that wants to use it if it's MS or Sony or any other company that works with AMD. MS's announcement just showed us that RDNA 2 will be available in time for a 2020 console. I see no reason for Sony to go with an old architecture, they have no reason for doing so. If XSX is RDNA 2, there is a very low chance PS5 isn't RDNA 2.
This x1000
I'm not an average consumer and will be getting both, but if I had to choose, there are two deciding factors for me:
1. Excluive games (PS wins, personal preference though)
2. Crossplay, cloud gaming, subscription plan, etc (Xbox wins, this is objectively superior on microsoft's platform)
I don't think either PS5 or XSX are gonna have a price that ends in anything other than a '$99'. All these '349, $449, 549 etc' guesses make no sense to me. Customer perceived value is everything.
Even if MS for example is struggling with price for Series X they would much rather take a slightly larger hit to get under that magic limit of $500 than just say eh '$549' is close enough.
Even if MS for example is struggling with price for Series X they would much rather take a slightly larger hit to get under that magic limit of $500 than just say eh '$549' is close enough.
For a while, but that Jaguar CPU will limit X1X in the near future.
PS5 support RT which RDNA1 doesn't.
So PS5 is using some features from RDNA2 for sure. [ if not full RDNA2 which is not confirmed atm]
Technical,sure.
Now show some casuals a replay from GT Sport and one from FM7 and tell me which one they think "looks better" and which console they think it's more expensive if they had to guess.
Besides, if we remove One X RDR2 from the equation, even around here the "best looking games" polls always see PS4 games take the top spots.
Even if we're looking at a 20% difference in performance, the difference won't be as clear cut. PS5 will have some of the best looking games around even when put side by side with XSX ones.
And the opposite is also true: see Forza Horizon games on One vanilla, you'd never tell they are running on a significantly weaker hardware.
My point is, the gap, should there be one, won't be noticeable for most people especially outside of multiplatforms and both consoles will have their "best looking game ever" moments.
Maybe it has to do with how much production and manufacturing Sony and MS rely on within China? Is there a big difference between the two in that area?
No. They get their parts and assemble them at the same places.
But the response to the coronavirus problem could be different because Sony is a japanese company and asia is much more affected than the us right now.
Sony doesn't need RDNA 2 to kill Xbox though, just a lower price point. You said it yourself.
I totally agree, but they don't really have a reason to choose RDNA 1 over RDNA 2 (if we assume RDNA 2 is better, a pretty safe assumption IMO), especially considering they already announced some RDNA 2 features like RT. Why would Sony spend millions in R&D for features they can just take off the shelf from AMD?
I've an important question. Could Sony or Microsoft still make major changes to the hardware this close for release? I mean could add more RAM, more TF, or improve Bandwidth? Or would it be now to late to make those changes?
Wasn't there rumors that the PS5 uses their own RT tech and won't be using AMD off the shelf solution? RDNA 1 with some RDNA 2 features + Sony's own RT solution seems possible to me.
Makes you wonder how long into the coming gen this "smart delivery" feature will be a thing and in what length this counts for new games. I mean even if they discontinue the X1S (which I expect them to), they still have the weak ass Jaguar inside the X1X to take in account when designing games.
Sony will wait for MS to reveal their pricing first. MS has to tell the world how much their new fancy hardware will cost. Sony can wait a week or two longer.
Every single detail can be revealed before the price.
If MS goes with 499$ sony can and will go lower and MS can't just turn around and lower their price a few days after they revealed it.
Sony is in the better position here.
Maybe Sony should announce at $499, let MS announce Lockheart at $349 and reduce PS5 before launch to $399.... /s
Though the real reason I quoted you was to see if you would reply to this post I made yesterday, which was either so stupid/naive/obvious no one thought it worthy a reply or it got lost very quickly.
Im not saying Sony won't talk about next gen.
Im talking about focus.
I think Sony will do a soft reveal before E3 and a blowout after that.
MS focus clearly is next gen.
The answer is…it depends.
Depending on the design, changes to RAM quantities might be possible. Changes to clocks can happen basically at any time. And the system will likely have multiple SSD options throughout its life anyway, if it doesn't at launch, so that can be changed whenever.
Stuff like core counts, memory bandwidth? That's been locked in for a while.
Educated guess. But Sony, if they had weaker specs, would've come out and softened the blow by announcing first.
Then they could have heard MS speak 12TF (higher specs), then spent the year detailing different things like BC, showing PS5 games etc to sell us with weaker specs. But.. they were waiting for MS to go with the 12TF number..
Now.. I just cant picture them trying to sell us weaker specs after choosing to go second. And it was their choice to.. because we waited on them talking since CES 2020 honestly.
So the fact that they arent yet.. that makes me still believe what Klee said. I think their going to blow us out of the water.
The good thing is we will get an answer soon enough.
This is MS's attempt to counter Sony's dominant position in the console space 100mil vs 50mil. Sony aren't going to counter a counter that we don't know will work or not.
There was no thunder for any of these except TLoU to begin with.
There's some pretty overt console warring going on these last few pages. Y'all better cut it out before Papa Transistor pulls the leather belt out again.
Tom Warren alluded a while back that "perhaps there is a reason MS was behind on dev kits and Sony has had them out in the wild for much longer" (or something similar to this).
MS was previously referring to the Navi and now they they revealed that it is RDNA 2. So I guess that begs the question is RDNA 2 still Navi? Sony has specifically stated Navi as well.
Im not insinuating anything one way or another, I have no clue who is using what. It just seems that there were some previous allusions.
Isnt that called changing the parameters to fit your narrative?
The XsX specs are impressive, specially for a closed system, PC GPUs are more powerful but when you can code for a single configuration like a console you can get more out of it, hence why consoles can punch way above their weight, look at the amazing looking games we got this gen with the low specs the XO and ps4 have.
I am not saying that the PS5 is weaker. BUT if it is, Sony is doing the right thing not talking specs. IF that is the case, when they talk, it will be about features and games.
I read some of the comments on here, and am always surprise how we want a manufacturer to do something counter to their best interests. For example, it doesn't benefit MS to talk price now.
I read some of the comments on here, and am always surprise how we want a manufacturer to do something counter to their best interests. For example, it doesn't benefit MS to talk price now.
Speculation about pricing:
As DrKeo said, I think MS will price match as well. Considering the strength of the PS brand, I don't think MS wants to be in a position where they are more expensive again. Granted, they might have the power crown but a cheaper PS5 with that strong userbase (PS4) and the PS brand strength is quite an obstacle to match. MS will get more leverage by at least being at the same price. They would FOR SURE win over people by being more powerful AND cheaper than Sony but chances are close to zero that XSX will be cheaper than PS5. BUt that is a "going for the jugular" tactict for sure.. don't see it happening though.
And this would mean that Lockhart would not be needed and I would like to see a Lockhart.. but a portable HW.
I think that if Lockhart is a Switch-like machine, it gives more incentives to buy at least two consoles from MS than if Lockhart is a standard console.
I see it from my perspective, I would highly likely buy both an XSX and a Portable Lockhart than an XSX and a standard Lockhart. Again, most likely Lockhart will NOT be portable but it would be nice with a Surface Duo like surprise (no one saw the Surface Duo coming).
As for price:
XSX= Pricematched with PS5.
Lockhart: If portable, 299-349 (if both XSX and PS5 are 399). If Lockhart is a standard model, then 299. A PS5 at 399 is a very strong proposition, Lockhart with 1 month gamepass at 299 can perhaps entice people to go for Xbox first, considering the amount of games available with Game pass.
And a final speculation..
For some reason, I think PS5 will be delayed. Their messaging has been extremely bad, it feels just like something has happened. Yes, perhaps this is a strategy but looking at this board and on twitter, their fans are suffering like hell.
Is there a timeline comparing how MS and Sony has officially announced next gen stuff? Sony drew first blood with the Wired article right? and then...?
As DrKeo said, I think MS will price match as well. Considering the strength of the PS brand, I don't think MS wants to be in a position where they are more expensive again. Granted, they might have the power crown but a cheaper PS5 with that strong userbase (PS4) and the PS brand strength is quite an obstacle to match. MS will get more leverage by at least being at the same price. They would FOR SURE win over people by being more powerful AND cheaper than Sony but chances are close to zero that XSX will be cheaper than PS5. BUt that is a "going for the jugular" tactict for sure.. don't see it happening though.
And this would mean that Lockhart would not be needed and I would like to see a Lockhart.. but a portable HW.
I think that if Lockhart is a Switch-like machine, it gives more incentives to buy at least two consoles from MS than if Lockhart is a standard console.
I see it from my perspective, I would highly likely buy both an XSX and a Portable Lockhart than an XSX and a standard Lockhart. Again, most likely Lockhart will NOT be portable but it would be nice with a Surface Duo like surprise (no one saw the Surface Duo coming).
As for price:
XSX= Pricematched with PS5.
Lockhart: If portable, 299-349 (if both XSX and PS5 are 399). If Lockhart is a standard model, then 299. A PS5 at 399 is a very strong proposition, Lockhart with 1 month gamepass at 299 can perhaps entice people to go for Xbox first, considering the amount of games available with Game pass.
And a final speculation..
For some reason, I think PS5 will be delayed. Their messaging has been extremely bad, it feels just like something has happened. Yes, perhaps this is a strategy but looking at this board and on twitter, their fans are suffering like hell.
Is there a timeline comparing how MS and Sony has officially announced next gen stuff? Sony drew first blood with the Wired article right? and then...?
I would argue that MS rushed their specs out because they are generally confident they have the edge in some of the key numbers that tend to get thrown about in console comparisons (TFs, RDNA 1 vs RDNA 2) and wanted to put Sony on the back foot when they do reveal more details.
I was going to say, PS4 hype absolutely overshadowed GoW:A, and PS4 launch hype overshadowed GT6. Nobody wants to buy "the real driving simulator" for a system that's yesterday's news.
So yeah, maybe Sony should have actually held their cards a little closer to their chest back in 2013, too.
If they have an offer for an off the shelf solution, I see no reason why Sony will spend millions in R&D for their own solution unless it's highly superior to AMD's solution. Yes, Sony has some RT patents but every big tech company has some RT patents by now, it's been a buzzword for the past 40 years.
I don't think MS can afford to announce pricing first because their position isn't just based on price, it's also based on a second console (probably) called XSS. The PS5's price point will probably determine both the XSX price point and if XSS gets to see the light of day. I also think that's why Sony can keep their MSRP secrete for longer and if they are smart, they will wait. It will be harder for MS, no one wants to announce a brand new console, the XSS, two months before release.
What Matt was talking about was giving PS5 players the PS5 version of a PS4 game if they own it. So for instance, if we take the PS3 to PS4 transition as an example, if you've bought TLOU on PS3 you will get TLOU remastered on PS4. It doesn't mean PSt will enhance your game automatically, from what we know PS5 BC will be very similar to PS4 Pro support of PS4 games, you either play them exactly as they are or you turn on boost mode for extra performance.
That's actually a good question, I guess we should ask tomwarren if he is willing to elaborate about that remark :)
The funny things with 12 Tflops, I told since last year if the PS5 and Xbox Series X have GPU above 10 Tflop, it will be because 2020 AMD midrange GPU will be there.
And with the substancial rumor of a 80 CUs high end GPU monster by AMD coming in 2020. Everything is logic.
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Funny speculation and my other speculation was that RDNA 2 will have some performance per watt improvement compared to RDNA 1. Wait and See.
And with the substancial rumor of a 80 CUs high end GPU monster by AMD coming in 2020. Everything is logic.
Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT6| - Mostly Fan Noise and Hot Air
Imagine someone told you the GPU will be 10-11 Tflops before Navi presentation. It would be Vega 56 level not very sexy compared for example to Ampere Nvidia offer next year. 10-11 Tflops AMD GPU was not sexy before Navi reveal, not sexy at all in 2020. I would have been happy because after...
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Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT6| - Mostly Fan Noise and Hot Air
I’m not sure if I should take being close to a trailer from 2014 as a positive, was it that impressive?
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Funny speculation and my other speculation was that RDNA 2 will have some performance per watt improvement compared to RDNA 1. Wait and See.
Please stop cherry picking data points to support your narrative.
You are completely ignoring the fact that the X1X launched a whole year after the PS4 Pro and was $100 more expensive.
Drawing any kind of conclusions based on the PS4 Pro and X1X launch is simply foolish.
I kinda agree... thread sometimes feels like a "flat earth" discussion ;)
I trust XGS already have that under control. I don't see TC, TI, PG Games ,NT, T10 and others limiting their games that much due to Jaguar, T1O has been massively overhauling the Forza engine and RTX is said to be a huge part of that and also by the time Fable XSX , HellBlade 2, Everwild , Obsidians AAA RPG, TI's project and the next Gears are out most XGS would have already moved development fully to XSX.
These are debates that you are better served asking someone that does not play those two games as opposed to someone that knows quite a bit about the games.
We yave gone from what gameplay looks like to what post processed replays look like. We have gone from pie in the sky statements that make no sense to this!
It is one helluva climb down.
This is the problem. Show me games, even third party games that look better on the XB1S/Base compared to the PS4. You wil struggle to find any.
Show me a PS4 Pro game that looks better than a game running on the XB1X. They do not exist. Now, go look for a game running at 4K60 like Gears is doing, in the same genre at the same fidelity.
It is hard to match.
You think it is hard to differentiate games running on base hardware to those running on mid gen consoles?
The difference is night and day. Once you play on a PS4 Pro or XB1X, you find it hard going to base hardware. And this is every single gamer that I know who has played on both.
Start of this generation resolution was all the rave, and now we struggle to see the difference between 1080p and 4K? This has to he one of the greatest moments in gaming forums for me.
If the Github repo and DF comments are true, there will be some 2.8TF that developers can play around with if not slightly more.
It looks small as a percentile but significant on its own. My hope though is that both consoles are in the same region.
I think XsX probably has the slight power edge, and that's why they announced 12tf, but overall they're going to be incredibly similar.
Yes it is. Somehow the whole discussion is about Sony (with some crazy unfounded assumptions involved) even though MS is the one giving details.
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