It should be fine on Switch as it's a collection of games originally released on Xbox & PS360, so it would be a bummer if they didn't run well.
It should be fine on Switch as it's a collection of games originally released on Xbox & PS360, so it would be a bummer if they didn't run well.
Yes. Razor's Edge was absolutely an evolution of II's combat mechanics in a lot of ways.
- More hold inputs in strings, so it was easier to transition to UTs from a combo
- Steel-on-Bone, which gave you a defensive/offensive option that let you efficiently clear a few enemies while getting some health back (While getting punished if you failed)
- Cicada Surge gave you a big increase in mobility, since you can now cancel dodges at the cost of a bit of meter
- The size of the Ninpo meter depended on what Ninpo you were using, giving you a dichotomy between the ability to frequently use Ninpo, or having the ability to use more of your Meter-based skills, due to a larger meter capacity, plus a stronger Ninpo?
- Earlier attacks in combo strings have a lower chance of dismemberment, whereas later attacks have a higher chance, rewarding commitment (Although there is, unfortunately, no dodge offset mechanic, which could've complemented this nicely)
- Slide-dodging that lets you stun smaller enemies on contact
Guess we can just ignore the Flying Swallow in NG04, Intercept in the hurricane packs, XXYY for the flails and Aerial XY for the scythe (Both in II), but sure, let's just pretend that overpowered tactics are exclusive to Razor's Edge.
Of course, I don't doubt that there are problems with Razor's Edge's combat system; Certain enemies are way too block-happy, there are less weapons, more redundant strings on each weapon than ever, and most of the bosses are absolutely terrible, but to claim that it DIDN'T make any significant improvements over II is a fallacy.
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I applaud you for making a long paragraph. Sadly those points are wrong.
Problem in Razors Edge is the only optimal way to do combat is slide 360 triangle (y) with the Scythe. The rest are moot. Sure you can do steel on bone but can you do it every single time on every single stage on every single encounter? If you want to make the game longer on this short 8 hour campaign, use other weapons that are pointless lol
In Ninja Gaiden 2 and Black, there are lots of optimal ways to do combat. 2 was not perfect even Black but at least combat are satisfying unlike Razors Edge haha
So nope, Razors Edge is not evolution to 2. That sounds trolling to me if I'm being honest.
It's really a trash game. In my opinion, it's the reason why we don't have a Ninja Gaiden game sooner because this game along with the original 3 is so garbage they decided it's not ready to do a sequel.
Razors edge is so bad they should just disregard all weapons and start with the Scythe only. Tee hee
Good point. Black is really good. It's hard to do Black vs NG2 because both are so good on their right. It's different flavors of combat system and I welcome it.
Okay? I guess you can just ignore EVERY SINGLE OTHER point I made, and just say "360Y lol". Clearly, you're not actually interested in having a discussion, or learning about Razor's Edge's combat system and mechanics, otherwise, you'd inquire further about these mechanics, or actually try them out yourself.
You can spam PKP in Bayonetta.
You can spam SST in the God of War games.
You can spam Flying Swallow in NG04.
You can spam defense-boosting lollipops in Bayonetta 2.
You can just use trickster to dodge, and the counter-attack in the DMC games.
You can just use Sloth in Nioh.
You can just use offensive heal in NieR: Automata.
You can just build cooldowns in God of War 2018, and then just spam special attacks.
Games aren't always about optimization, they're also about fun. Overpowered tactics exist in EVERY GAME. It doesn't render the rest of the combat, and experimentation involved moot.
> Lays out a big list in ways Razor's Edge added to the combat
> "360Y lol"
You sure YOU'RE not the troll?
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I am already making a discussion. What you're saying about razors edge being an evolution over 2 is wrong and laughable at best. I played and platinum the game (this and original 3) and I stand by what I said. The only optimal way to beat the game is 360 dash scythe. Rest are moot.
Also here is where you have a reading problem. Razors edge ONLY optimal way is 360 scythe. The games you listed have more options to do combat. Games are fun yes but don't say it's more an evolution to the other game just because it's "fun".
All versions of Ninja Gaiden and Ninja Gaiden 2 allow you to infinitely chain instant-UTs. How people even attempt to argue that Razor's Edge has overpowered moves as if it's something that Razor's Edge in particular fucked up is beyond me.
I also totally disagree with you here on Razor's Edge.
In terms of total package, the game is definitely not as good as NGB and NG2 since it retains some of the structural design flaws of the terrible vanilla NG3. But in terms of pure combat gameplay, Razors Edge is stellar and at least holds it own compared to NG2. Hard to say which is better but they are on par with each other and Razors Edge did make some excellent additions to the combat system.
Anyone calling Razor's Edge trash is unfair, trollish and/or is just inexperienced with it. The game still has a ton of flaws but it has some of the best combat gameplay to date of any action game. Just look at veteran hardcore NG players on Youtube, etc.----most of them now have put a ton of time into Razors Edge and love the combat.
I understand someone preferring other NG games over Razors Edge, and I am not going to defend the game's other design flaws, but it's combat is superb.
What I said earlier was objective. Those are objectively mechanics in the game that weren't in previous games, that added to Razor's Edge's combat system. Nothing I said was wrong. You are the one choosing to ignore those mechanics.
Platinum'ing a game doesn't make you an expert on it. I listed off a whole bunch of ways that NG3RE had added to the mechanics over 2, and you purposefully chose to ignore them, and act like 360Y literally negates the existence of all of those.
Alright. Tell these guys, who are playing Razor's Edge at a high level without 360Y scythe that they are playing the game completely wrong, and not optimally in the slightest.
More options? I just listed a bunch of the new combat options that Razor's Edge gives you. Once again, let me repeat myself:
- More hold inputs in strings, so it was easier to transition to UTs from a combo
- Steel-on-Bone, which gave you a defensive/offensive option that let you efficiently clear a few enemies while getting some health back (While getting punished if you failed)
- Cicada Surge gave you a big increase in mobility, since you can now cancel dodges at the cost of a bit of meter
- The size of the Ninpo meter depended on what Ninpo you were using, giving you a dichotomy between the ability to frequently use Ninpo, or having the ability to use more of your Meter-based skills, due to a larger meter capacity, plus a stronger Ninpo?
- Earlier attacks in combo strings have a lower chance of dismemberment, whereas later attacks have a higher chance, rewarding commitment (Although there is, unfortunately, no dodge offset mechanic, which could've complemented this nicely)
- Slide-dodging that lets you stun smaller enemies on contact
And AGAIN, let me list off overpowered tactics in other games, that, by your logic, could render the rest of the game mechanics moot.
- PKP spam in Bayonetta
- SST spam in the God of War games
- Flying Swallow spam in NG04
- Defense-boosting lollipop spam in Bayonetta 2
- Spamming Sloth in Nioh
- Stacking offensive heals in NieR: Automata
- Building cooldowns in God of War 2018, and then spamming special attacks
No. That's why I listed a bunch of the new options that the game offers. Because spamming the same move is boring, so those mechanics spice things up.
Absolutely. Overpowered mechanics and strategies exist in every video game. It doesn't negate all the other mechanics.
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Honestly a great highlight post as to why Razors Edge is a stellar action game. Really hope this collection acts as a sort of second wind for RE , cause that game absolutely offers some of the best combat in the series.
We both agree thsi is not better than the previous iterations. That's good. Problem is calling someone inexperienced because of the opinion is trolling as well. If you properly read my post, I mentioned I platinum this game meaning I spent lots of hours and dedication doing so.
Also Razors Edge is an evolution over the previous games? And objectively better? If you don't see that as trolling, then what is?
I wonder if we'll see more of this at the New Game+ Expo on the 4th? I would love to hear more details about the collection soon. I'm hoping for at least some changes here and there.
Watching these RE videos...the combat looks great but then I remember all the enemy types I just never learned to deal with properly. Like alchemists, wtf how do you even deal with them correctly? "the dudes with the magic squares etc I can't remember if they're called alchemists"
Given the reception this announcement got, I definitely think they'll want to talk about the collection sooner rather than later.
If there was an emoticon on this site , I would use the love and laugh emoji. Love because you made an effort making a paragraph with good grammar but laugh because it still sums up as wrong. I mean the first post (objective) is comedic gold. News flash, It is not objective. I'll tell you later but let me address this next point....
Did you platinum the game? Did you even platinum a Ninja Gaiden game? How far are you in Razor's Edge? I claim no expert but I am darn sure I am above average on this game because platinum this game takes skill, time and effort UNLESS (read this part) you have an online Ninja Partner who is extremely good (top players in Japan/US/Europe) who can boost you on the online missions.
If you do platinum this game, amazing job as it is no joke to do so.
Now let's address the previous point by watching the videos. I'll summarize it shortly. You can do that in Ninja Gaiden 2 with the EXCEPTION of the additional mechanics like Steel on Bone and earning UT by killing opponents. Where is the evolution? Yes it looks flashy (I can agree it looks flashier than 2) but it's wasting buttons. It may look good when watching it but it's not practical. You see in Ninja Gaiden 2, every weapon is good and provides optimal damage. You can do a lot on each weapon and guaranteed you can get really good damage. It's fun to use. Heck, watch the video you posted and even after Izuna Drop, the enemy still lives. How many buttons did you waste?
One of the things I am most excited about with this Collection is the chance Razor's Edge will get upgraded to higher resolution...
I think the game is definitely going to get a second wind with new (and old) players approaching the game with fresh eyes...
Slide 360 triangle with scythe . You win.
Don't bother wasting buttons on those. The RE videos are just flashy but it's not optimal.
Just revisited the first level of Razor's Edge for the first time since a few years ago. Not having played the previous games, I have to ask: is movement/enemy lock in the previous games as finicky as in this one? Hopefully the camera works better in the Sigma games than in the tank and Regent of the Mask fights here.
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So there are different strategies you can use of course, but this nicely illustrates one of the most critical and least understood mechanics of RE combat which shows how deep it is. Namely, using the Furious Wind technique (in all NG games with different nuances)....this is the slide-dodge but with the blue after-image trail. You do the Furious Wind technique if you slide-dodge the instant your guard is hit/broken by an enemy AND you can also do it if you slide-dodge the instant an enemy blocks you. After you do a proper Furious Wind out of a guard break, Ryu can instantly enter back in for an attack. Getting skilled at using this and the timing is HUGE and is like a key to unlocking RE combat.
So with the Alchemists----the instant they nail you and break your guard, slide-dodge away/Furious Wind and then quickly enter back in for few counter attacks.....then once they block your attacking, instantly Furious Wind away..... I cannot stress enough how awesome it feels in the moment when you have this flow.
The majority doesn't. RE scores tend to be high in the mixed to average range.
is there any videos to demonstrate this? Someone recommended the 360 scythe, but clearly that doesnt work if I want to play any of the women.
I mean I'm pretty experienced with black,2,s2 and I'd master ninja in all 3. I just for whatever reason refused to have the patience for some of the bullshit in re
Poor bosses, things like movement, level design, combat balancing, and beat by beat enemy fighting are often off and vastly inferior to the previous games. Combat has potential, but it's not as initiative or naturally feeling.
I mean, clealy the game has its fans as you can see above, but that's the gist of the criticisms you'll hear
I listed out a bunch of added mechanics in the game, and their uses. You can't really get more objective than that.
Completed all missions on Master Ninja on Cemu, a Wii U emulator. As far as I know, there isn't a way to connect online, so I had to beat them myself. No achievements there, but there you go.
I did all the missions as well. I also consider myself to be fairly decent at the game. What makes your opinion better than mine? Especially since you choose to ignore the new additions? And while we're talking credibility, I showed you videos of people playing at a higher level than both you and I without needing 360Y. Does their opinion not matter?
"You can do everything in this video with the mechanics in Ninja Gaiden 2, except for all the mechanics that aren't in Ninja Gaiden 2!"
Jesus fucking christ.
Again, here's a list of some mechanics added into NG3RE, and their usage:
- More hold inputs in strings, so it was easier to transition to UTs from a combo
- Steel-on-Bone, which gave you a defensive/offensive option that let you efficiently clear a few enemies while getting some health back (While getting punished if you failed)
- Cicada Surge gave you a big increase in mobility since you can now cancel dodges at the cost of a bit of meter
- The size of the Ninpo meter depended on what Ninpo you were using, giving you a dichotomy between the ability to more frequently use Ninpo, or having the ability to use more of your Meter-based skills, due to a larger meter capacity, plus a stronger Ninpo?
- Earlier attacks in combo strings have a lower chance of dismemberment, whereas later attacks have a higher chance, rewarding commitment (Although there is, unfortunately, no dodge offset mechanic, which could've complemented this nicely)
- Slide-dodging that lets you stun smaller enemies on contact
This is absolutely an evolution. You're just choosing to ignore the mechanics.
Because, again, optimized play isn't the only goal of action games. It's to find an effective, but fun method of killing things. A LOT of things aren't practical. Those combos you see in DMC4 and 5 videos often aren't "the most practical way to kill things".
And for the third time, let me list off overpowered tactics in other games, that, by your logic, render the rest of the game mechanics moot, purely because they are "the more practical option".
- PKP spam in Bayonetta
- SST spam in the God of War games
- Flying Swallow spam in NG04
- Defense-boosting lollipop spam in Bayonetta 2
- Spamming Sloth in Nioh
- Stacking offensive heals in NieR: Automata
- Building cooldowns in God of War 2018, and then spamming special attacks
So again, I ask you, what makes the overpowered strategy in Razor's Edge so special compared to other action games, which all have easy, exploitable tactics of their own?
I believe that this also applies to Razor's Edge. Aside from the Lunar not being able to SoB, all the weapons are useful in their own right, and pretty fun to use. Your point?
You realize Izuna Drop was never an instant kill in these games, right? It was always just a very high-damage grab. Enemies were able to survive it in Black, and II as well.
The majority? The game got pretty mixed-to-positive reception on release. Besides, the reputation of games can improve over time. See God Hand.
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Speaking for myself, I think its alright. I probably would have liked it more if NGB didn't exist, because that's probably my favorite game ever so it was tough to stomach RE. Its not bad though and its at least a pretty big improvement over the trash heap that is vanilla NG3.
But you failed to prove it's an evolution. You can say it's an addition but not evolution. Evolution is an major upgrade. Sadly RE's combat is not a major upgrade lol.
,
And here is the problem. You have not tackled the team missions which are the litmus test of RE's combat. Can you imitate the videos you posted on all Mn or UN missions on RE? Probably on Acolyte or something lol
And I platinum all NG games except the Vita Sigma 2 (because it is unplatinumable) and got all achievements on NG2 Xbox 360. Yes my opinion weighs more than yours. In fact, you saying RE is an evolution over the previous iterations are factually wrong therefore you lost credibility from the start. Why am I doing this discussion? To show that you are wrong. Don't you realize every long post you make is pure comedic gold?
Haha no it's not an evolution. There are additions sure but it does not evolve the gameplay. Why was RE/3 the most dislike sequel on this franchise ? Because it is trash even the combat. Which is easier to do UT, Ninja Gaiden 2 or RE? Be honest.
Listen, evolution must include optimized play. If it's not optimized, then it's trash. If the options you show on the video are way less effective than 360 t scythe, it just shows the combat is trash. It's yuck . Those combos you are showing on the videos are not practical/less effective/not optimized.
Evolution should wow you when you play it. You would feel greatness when it is evolution. Sadly 3 made me sad. I mean RE improved a bit but if you cover something nice over trash, it's still trash. Why do majority of Ninja Gaiden players trash this game? Because it's a disappointment.
I feel like people are exaggerating.
Doesn't hurt to give it a try. I personally plan on buying it. It will be nice to have all versions.
I already addressed this by saying RE only option optimal is 360 t scythe and the less are non optimal. Is that too hard to understand for you I need to explain further. Ok
Those games you mentioned, they have more options to do optimal damage. Way more options. RE does not. If a Ninja Gaiden game's only optimal damage option is one move, then we have a problem.
Correct me if I'm wrong, Ninja Gaiden vets but I think they say that because of the karma scoring system is a bit broken on Sigma vs Black. I may be wrong but I remember Top US player Bigalski said similar like that.
Sigma 1 and 2 are good games. I recommend it. I personally like the Xbox versions better but to each on it's own. You will not hear from me arguing about that.
I won't argue with that. That's the problem. If the sequel can't match the previous and fails hard, it's garbage most especially on Ninja Gaiden.
cool. I'm glad to see you agree with yourself
User Banned (2 Weeks): Hostility, trolling, & condescending behavior with history of similar
Did my criticism of a certain video game hurt your ego/feelings? I apologize if I tell the truth.
Thank you. Finally a sensible gamer/poster who understands.
I find Razor's Edge to be a ton of fun, honestly. It's the only PS3 game I play to this day. I do enjoy the combat more than 2. Both are great, though. Perhaps it's that I played 2 so much I was tired of it? IDK. But RE is the one I go back to.
NG3 had serious issues, but Razor's Edge improved over the vanilla NG3 a great deal. Although It's fine to not like the game or understand the core NG3 was very problematic. It's just a shame a lot of folks continue to push the narrative that Razor's Edge is no different than the original release. It makes for some rather dire discourse bringing up the adjustments made and mechanical changes are blatantly ignored.
Fine. You want me to explain why these additions are improvements over past Ninja Gaiden games.
Steel-on-Bone adds some nice risk-reward, since you have a chance of chaining a few insta-kills, getting some i-frames, healing a bit of health, and filling up your Ninpo for each kill while also risking taking a large chunk of damage, or a grab if you fail. Despite how powerful this mechanic is, it's balanced by shields being able to stop your SoB chain, so it's a good idea to knock off the opponent's shield before initiating a Steel-on-Bone chain.
The increased amount of hold inputs in strings allows you to transition into UTs from combos more smoothly; And because the UT attack is based on the standard heavy attack, it also lets you transition into a Steel-on-Bone straight from a combo string without having to cancel out of your combo with a dodge.
Cicada Surge lets you stay on the offensive when there's a stronger enemy attacking while you're focusing on someone else, and lets you cancel out of a dodge at the cost of some meter. This is a massive increase in mobility over past games, and a huge upgrade offensively, since in past games, if an enemy was attacking you while you were attacking them (And didn't have i-frames), you had to break your combo string by dodging, or blocking.
The new Ninpo meter system ensures that you can't just spam it like in previous games once you had gathered a bunch of Ninpo charges. In exchange, you're given some new abilities, such as the ability to slow down time when aiming in mid-air, meditation for healing after fights, and Cicada Surge (Which I explain the use of in the previous paragraph). Ninpo also now heals you. However, what really makes things interesting is the fact that different Ninpo have different meter capacities.
- Void Ninpo has the lowest requirements for usage and has high damage, but also gives you the lowest meter capacity, and doesn't have much AoE
- Wind has much higher AoE, and delimbs most enemies, and higher meter capacity, but in exchange, has a higher requirement for usage, and isn't good against single targets
- Fire shoots a few concentrated blasts of high damage, so it's somewhere between Void and Wind in its role. Pretty universal overall, but has high meter requirement, and in exchange, has high meter capacity
- True Inferno is basically a screenwipe, and heals you big time, but has the highest requirements for usage, and by extension, the highest meter capacity.
Later attacks in combo strings having higher delimb chances (And I do mean, MUCH higher), as I said, rewards commitment. In other words, you can't just spam XXY, dash, and try and delimb enemies purely with that. You need to complete the string XXYYY in order to get the best results. While I think a dodge offset would complement this quite nicely, NG3RE, unfortunately, doesn't have that.
Slide-dodging that flinches enemies is an obvious improvement that even you acknowledge. Lets you stay a bit more aggressive while on the defensive, and it lets you set up enemies for easy followups.
So there, that's an explanation of why everything I just mentioned is an upgrade. Add those all up, and I'd say that's a pretty substantial evolution over II. Hopefully, you're willing to go point-by-point, and show why each of these mechanics aren't worth anything.
I DID take on the Team Trials. Solo. You can actually take those on by yourself. They're just obscenely difficult, and are clearly not built to be done solo. But I didn't claim to be able to style all over enemies in those trials like the people in the videos did. Especially in the Team Trials because those missions aren't built for one person to take on. So of COURSE a single person isn't going to be able to do that. The people in the videos are playing in the missions built for solo players, not the ones built for teams.
I'M factually wrong? You haven't bothered refuting any of the mechanics, or additions to the combat system in Razor's Edge. All you do is say "360Y lol". In fact, your main complaint doesn't even seem to be about the mechanics or improvements, just that it's unbalanced, to which I agreed with you.
How on earth is increased player mobility not an evolution? How is pushing the player into making more risk-reward decisions not an evolution? How is allowing for more aggressive play not an evolution?
You realize that this also applies to Ninja Gaiden 1 and 2, right? UT spam is the "optimal" way to play in those games. Does that mean that the combat is trash, or that it is merely unbalanced, which I emphasize that the latter is what I AGREED with? Likewise, combos in videos that you see online for games like DMC, Tales, or whatever Platinum game aren't the "optimal" way to play. Optimized play isn't the only way to play games like you think it is. Nearly every game has overpowered strategies. Those strategies, however aren't the only way to play the game.
Evolution:
/ˌevəˈlo͞oSH(ə)n/
1. The process by which different kinds of living organisms are thought to have developed and diversified from earlier forms during the history of the earth.
Similar: Darwinism, natural selection
2. The gradual development of something, especially from a simple to a more complex form.
"the forms of written languages undergo constant evolution"
What could be more optimal in Nioh than the ability to slow your enemies down, and completely gimp their mobility and attacking speed, allowing you to get a ton of shots in from the back, which also increases damage?
What could be more optimal in Bayonetta than a fast, easy-to-perform string that ends in a Wicked Weave that lets you easily rack up combo points? Not to mention the goddamn Kilgore exploit.
What could be more optimal in Bayonetta 2 than the ability to spam lollipops that make you invincible, let you spam your super mode, and crank up your damage with no penalty at all to your score?
And of course, what could be more optimal in Ninja Gaiden 1 and 2 than the ability to instantly charge your UTs with karma gained off of a single dead enemy or worse, an opened chest that lets you wipe out scores of other enemies?
OVERPOWERED STRATEGIES EXIST IN EVERY GAME. Razor's Edge's overpowered strategy isn't unique to it, nor does it completely negate every other improvement to the combat system made.
I get it, felt like I was in the twilight zone seeing so much praise for Razors edge. You can tell me steel and bone all you want but I bought a Wii U for razors edge at launch and felt scammed.
Yeah you got scammed bad. It's a bizarre world we live in when gamers praise bad games. Is it a thing these days?