Nintendo might never chase power again...

[MrBreada]

1995 during the SNES era we played games in 60fps, so playing games in 30fps in 2019 is clear step back to me.

I understand that making a more powerful console would increase the price and therefore lessen its mass appeal, but man, I can't help but noticing that the latest Zelda, Fire Emblem or Pokemon games look like PS3 titles from 10 years ago and keep wondering what they would look and perform like with state of the art hardware power.

I don't care about graphics; I am very happy with Ys 8 on the PS4 Pro (running in 60fps makes a huge difference); but I care about image quality, which includes framerate, and BotW for example is a mess in these areas.

I would be perfectly fine with Pokemon Shield's graphics if it ran in 60fps, but who am I kidding.

Long story short; better framerate makes every game better, and that does count for Nintendo games, too. I can't help but wonder what Breath of the Wild in 60fps would look, play and feel like.

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I feel you, but on the other hand, there's still 60fps gorgeousness to be had. Super Mario Odyssey, Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, Mario Kart 8 Deluxe... They all run silky-smooth, and it's amazing. Zelda's lack of 60fps, however, peeves me a lot. I'm crossing my fingers that they're able to give the framerate a boost for Breath of the Wild's sequel now that they're no longer shackled down to the Wii U, but it'll be a miracle if it actually happens.

 

[60fps]

I feel you, but on the other hand, there's still 60fps gorgeousness to be had. Super Mario Odyssey, Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, Mario Kart 8 Deluxe... They all run silky-smooth, and it's amazing. Zelda's lack of 60fps, however, peeves me a lot. I'm crossing my fingers that they're able to give the framerate a boost for Breath of the Wild's sequel now that they're no longer shackled down to the Wii U, but it'll be a miracle if it actually happens.

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Haha yeah, absolutely. I'm always happy when Nintendo releases another game in 60fps. Makes them so much more fun and timeless.

 

[BreakAtmo]

Mario Kart Deluxe has pretty graphics at 1080p.

Switch is quite powerful for a tablet it just lands way way way below the current Xbox and PlayStation

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Yeah, as portable systems go the Switch DOES "chase power". I'm ok with Nintendo sticking with the Switch form factor and pushing limits within that space. It would be cool if NSO subscriptions and high digital sales gave them enough cash to take a loss on the Switch 2 and make it nice and strong.

 

[Concelhaut]

Maybe once streaming becomes mainstream, that will close the power gap between the different platforms.

 

[plusaflag]

They do chase power.

Spoiler

per unit of volume.

 

[shark97]

Yeah, as portable systems go the Switch DOES "chase power". I'm ok with Nintendo sticking with the Switch form factor and pushing limits within that space. It would be cool if NSO subscriptions and high digital sales gave them enough cash to take a loss on the Switch 2 and make it nice and strong.

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I wouldn't call a Tegra X1, that Nintendo supposedly got a great deal on dusty warehouse loads of unused ones as things like the Shield Tv and Nvidia's push into mobile altogether, were huge bombs, "chasing power". That said, I've defended Nintendo on the specific Switch before, it's very capable chipset for mobile and the time frame, and 4GB RAm is quite healthy. I just wouldn't cast it as them "chasing power" in any aggressive manner per se.

Chasing power and mobile are inherently at odds as the instant you load down a mobile chipset you're killing the battery life. A catch 22 you can never escape. And that's the reason for the less than half clocks in the Switch undocked.

 

[TyrantGuardian]

I think the Switch is way overpriced so if anything I wish they went with less power and lower costs.

 

[Clefargle]

Maybe once streaming becomes mainstream, that will close the power gap between the different platforms.

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The grossest future.

With our current understanding of physics, the inherent latency of streaming games will never go away. And those of us that care more about gameplay and responsive controls will be frozen out in favor of more visual fidelity. So sad because my favorite genres like fighting games don't require better graphics, they just require solid local hardware to provide responsive controls.

 

[EAD Ninja]

I think Nintendo will reach a happier medium with its current and potential user base when it takes the idea of software being played across a family of hardware.

Want to play Mario Kart 8 Deluxe in 4k with a pro controller. Buy the Pro Play System. (Premium)
Want to play Mario Kart 8 Deluxe at home in front of the TV on a giant Nintendo tablet.
Want to play Mario Kart 8 Deluxe for your commute to work on a smaller portable. Buy the mini.

I think the overall user base grows, and most Nintendo and gaming enthusiasts end up buying multiple hardware to fit their needs.

 

[StarStorm]

I accepted it since the late 90s.

 

[Phellps]

Thank God. We have two platforms chasing power already. I'm cool with Nintendo chasing new ways to play.

 

[Deleted member 8593]

I think Nintendo will reach a happier medium with its current and potential user base when it takes the idea of software being played across a family of hardware.

Want to play Mario Kart 8 Deluxe in 4k with a pro controller. Buy the Pro Play System. (Premium)
Want to play Mario Kart 8 Deluxe at home in front of the TV on a giant Nintendo tablet.
Want to play Mario Kart 8 Deluxe for your commute to work on a smaller portable. Buy the mini.

I think the overall user base grows, and most Nintendo and gaming enthusiasts end up buying multiple hardware to fit their needs.

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I wouldn't be surprised if we see something like this and when Iwata spoke about a unified hardware family, I actually expected exactly this to happen. But then the Switch came and was something else entirely.

I wonder how feasible a model like this would be and what the hardware rollout would look like.

 

[XNihili]

If people want to have 4K Nintendo games, they'd better pray for Nintendo to go nearly bankrupt and go full games publisher à la Sega.
I don't think the current Nintendo is able to handle a very powerful console, it would require much more time to develop games, yet people are still complaining that Nintendo doesn't dish out games fast enough for the Switch.

 

[Council Pop]

It would be cool if NSO subscriptions and high digital sales gave them enough cash to take a loss on the Switch 2 and make it nice and strong.

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Obviously not. Nintendo have massive cash reserves. The reason that they don't take a loss on consoles is not because they literally can't afford it- look at how much money they make on software, of course they could subsidise a loss on hardware, as they have done in the past.

The reason is because their business model is now based on stability over everything else. They've explicitly stated this. It's very different to the much more unstable and speculative US/Western style of capitalism. It's a deliberate choice and it looks very unlikely to change any time soon.

If anything, the success of the Switch and software sales has proven that they don't need to take a loss on hardware in order to create a really successful and strong gaming brand.

I wouldn't be surprised if we see something like this and when Iwata spoke about a unified hardware family, I actually expected exactly this to happen. But then the Switch came and was something else entirely.

I wonder how feasible a model like this would be and what the hardware rollout would look like.

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It seems very unlikely imo. As streaming services grow in popularity and people are buying less consoles, as well as there global trend of people buying less devices/fewer phone upgrades etc etc, it would seem very unlikely that a relatively small company like Nintendo would be able to successfully market an entire range of different devices in this way.

 

[Aztorian]

Give me a photorealistic Super Mario game. JK. Pokemon though.

 

[Secretofmateria]

If people want to have 4K Nintendo games, they'd better pray for Nintendo to go nearly bankrupt and go full games publisher à la Sega.
I don't think the current Nintendo is able to handle a very powerful console, it would require much more time to develop games, yet people are still complaining that Nintendo doesn't dish out games fast enough for the Switch.

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Thats a good point. Hd in general seems to be enough for nintendo's developers as it is

 

[Radamammuth]

They don't have to chase power, but it's sad they have to be such a low common denominator. That said I'm still bitting once Link's awakening hits.

 

[BreakAtmo]

Obviously not. Nintendo have massive cash reserves. The reason that they don't take a loss on consoles is not because they literally can't afford it- look at how much money they make on software, of course they could subsidise a loss on hardware, as they have done in the past.

The reason is because their business model is now based on stability over everything else. They've explicitly stated this. It's very different to the much more unstable and speculative US/Western style of capitalism. It's a deliberate choice and it looks very unlikely to change any time soon.

If anything, the success of the Switch and software sales has proven that they don't need to take a loss on hardware in order to create a really successful and strong gaming brand.

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I said it would be cool, not that it's likely. Nintendo's business model doesn't mean I don't want a Switch 2 with an SSD and a huge OLED screen that trumps the PS4 in power, even if I agree they probably aren't going to do it. Though maybe by 2024 that system won't actually be very expensive to make.

 

[ManNR]

With how expensive games are getting to make, Nintendo may be ahead of the curve by not having their games cost a 100 million dollars to make and market. I dread what studio closures will happen in the advent of next-gen.

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This is definitely a possibility over the coming generation and one that doesn't receive enough consideration.

 

[Jumpman23]

Nintendo is doing great, even without being the most powerful console. They've proven this repeatedly with the NES vs Master System, Gameboy vs Lynx and Game Gear, Wii vs Xbox 360 and PS3, and here we are yet again with Switch up against major powerhouses in PS4/Pro and Xbox One/X.

You don't need to have the biggest GPU in the room to get a date.

 

[Moltres006]

This is definitely a possibility over the coming generation and one that doesn't receive enough consideration.

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If anything I think we might see publishers add unskippable ads like 2k for more revenue.

 

[ManNR]

If anything I think we might see publishers add unskippable ads like 2k for more revenue.

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Gamers will take kindly to that. Though it is hard to predict or quantify consumer rebellion is a real thing that can change industry standards. We are seeing signs of that right now regarding GaaS vs Single-Player Narrative Games. The big companies pushed GaaS hard but are already running up against the market cap for that. To compensate for the inherent risk in launching a GaaS we are seeing a return to high-quality single player content (even though two years ago we were being told Single Player was dying).

 

[LCGeek]

I said it would be cool, not that it's likely. Nintendo's business model doesn't mean I don't want a Switch 2 with an SSD and a huge OLED screen that trumps the PS4 in power, even if I agree they probably aren't going to do it. Though maybe by 2024 that system won't actually be very expensive to make.

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This is totally their strategy and they don't care how quick consumers want them to get there.

I prefer this strategy nintendo is pumping out more than if they had to keep chasing high fidelity high quality assert based games that can do 4k. That's not cheap and nintendo is not built in size to have the people necessary to keep up with activision or ubisoft.

 

[AndrewDean84]

I just need Nintendo to do Nintendo.

 

[Deleted member 37233]

I feel you, but on the other hand, there's still 60fps gorgeousness to be had. Super Mario Odyssey, Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, Mario Kart 8 Deluxe... They all run silky-smooth, and it's amazing. Zelda's lack of 60fps, however, peeves me a lot. I'm crossing my fingers that they're able to give the framerate a boost for Breath of the Wild's sequel now that they're no longer shackled down to the Wii U, but it'll be a miracle if it actually happens.

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Zelda at 60 FPS, when similar games on other platforms run at 30 FPS? I don't think that's feasible. It's an open world game, not a fighting game, racing game of platformer.

 

[TheFuzz]

Nintendo has the most-powerful handheld we have ever seen. They're chasing power, just not how you'd expect them too.

 

[Skel1ingt0n]

Nintendo has the most-powerful handheld we have ever seen. They're chasing power, just not how you'd expect them too.

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I love Nintendo; I really, really do. But while this may be the case, the impact is dilluted quite a bit when the vast majority of People have a much more powerful phone in their pocket.

 

[TheFuzz]

I love Nintendo; I really, really do. But while this may be the case, the impact is dilluted quite a bit when the vast majority of People have a much more powerful phone in their pocket.

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We are talking about game consoles. There are more powerful PCs, too, but that's not the point.

 

[Skel1ingt0n]

We are talking about game consoles. There are more powerful PCs, too, but that's not the point.

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Not the same thing - the vast majority of consumers have a powerful phone. A "gaming" PC is still a luxury.

 

[TheFuzz]

Not the same thing - the vast majority of consumers have a powerful phone. A "gaming" PC is still a luxury.

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It's not even the same market, that's my point. When a greater number of people start doing serious gaming on their phones, it becomes a fair comparison.

 

[hrœrekr]

This made sense only on Wii/WiiU era.
As a portable device Switch is a very powerful machine, on the limit of what is possible with a 299 price point.

 

[Skel1ingt0n]

It's not even the same market, that's my point. When a greater number of people start doing serious gaming on their phones, it becomes a fair comparison.

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I hate mobile gaming but more people play games on their phone than the switch by a monumental amount.

But we're losing focus - my point is that the Switch's hardware is not very impressive in 2019 from a performance perspective. That's all. I don't know a soul who has been impressed with the graphics. That's totally fine, and in many cases art makes up for that... but I'm just saying it's illy to use the switch as a counter to the OP'a point.

 

[AndrewDean84]

I love Nintendo; I really, really do. But while this may be the case, the impact is dilluted quite a bit when the vast majority of People have a much more powerful phone in their pocket.

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Phone also costs double or triple the switch.

 

[Crisium]

I wouldn't call a Tegra X1, that Nintendo supposedly got a great deal on dusty warehouse loads of unused ones as things like the Shield Tv and Nvidia's push into mobile altogether, were huge bombs, "chasing power". That said, I've defended Nintendo on the specific Switch before, it's very capable chipset for mobile and the time frame, and 4GB RAm is quite healthy. I just wouldn't cast it as them "chasing power" in any aggressive manner per se.

Chasing power and mobile are inherently at odds as the instant you load down a mobile chipset you're killing the battery life. A catch 22 you can never escape. And that's the reason for the less than half clocks in the Switch undocked.

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I was disappointed Nintendo didn't order a customer chip from Nvidia, but I understand that it must have been much cheaper just to use the X1. Only problem is 20nm was dated in 2017 at Switch launch. With the right financial incentives I'm sure Nvidia could have made a 16nm or even 10nm chip for the Switch. The benefits of course would be a faster chip for the same power consumption.

 

[Hate]

Phone also costs double or triple the switch.

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It also does more than play games.

 

[Procheno]

I love Nintendo; I really, really do. But while this may be the case, the impact is dilluted quite a bit when the vast majority of People have a much more powerful phone in their pocket.

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Play a game like Zelda in scale at 1080p, let alone 4k, for more than 30 minutes and come talk to us. And Zelda's just a scaled up Wii U game

 

[AndrewDean84]

It also does more than play games.

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Switch also plays better games, at a fraction of the price.

 

[maximumzero]

It's fascinating that the mobile argument is still being made. It's been going for over 10 years at this point.

 

[Deleted member 19533]

Yeah... I would rather it be a powerful console or even weaker tbh. The Switch IMO is in a bad spot power wise cause it just gets mediocre ports. Even when they're good, they're nothing compared to other versions. If they had a more powerful console, it would be a more viable option instead of a Nintendo only player, which makes it really not worth my time until the end of the Gen. If it were even weaker, it'd have a unique library much like the DS and 3DS where they had a lot of quality exclusives because those platforms had to be tailored to and couldn't manage ports.

I mean, it is nice in a way cause it's just one less platform to buy.

 

[TheFuzz]

I hate mobile gaming but more people play games on their phone than the switch by a monumental amount.

But we're losing focus - my point is that the Switch's hardware is not very impressive in 2019 from a performance perspective. That's all. I don't know a soul who has been impressed with the graphics. That's totally fine, and in many cases art makes up for that... but I'm just saying it's illy to use the switch as a counter to the OP'a point.

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Are you being serious? You don't know a soul who was impressed that Doom was running on the Switch and looked and performed how it did?

 

[Hate]

Switch also plays better games, at a fraction of the price.

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It also does more than play games.

 

[Moltres006]

Yeah... I would rather it be a powerful console or even weaker tbh. The Switch IMO is in a bad spot power wise cause it just gets mediocre ports. Even when they're good, they're nothing compared to other versions. If they had a more powerful console, it would be a more viable option instead of a Nintendo only player, which makes it really not worth my time until the end of the Gen. If it were even weaker, it'd have a unique library much like the DS and 3DS where they had a lot of quality exclusives because those platforms had to be tailored to and couldn't manage ports.

I mean, it is nice in a way cause it's just one less platform to buy.

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But then we'll lose the ability to play fire emblem, animal crossing and pokemon on a portable. After Awakening and New leaf I just cant go back to console-only FE and AC games.

 

[Skel1ingt0n]

Are you being serious? You don't know a soul who was impressed that Doom was running on the Switch and looked and performed how it did?

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Within the context of its unimpressive hardware specs? Sure! But just in general? No, I really don't.

 

[AndrewDean84]

It also does more than play games.

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It's those others things that I use a phone for, not traditional gaming.

 

[TheFuzz]

Within the context of its unimpressive hardware specs? Sure! But just in general? No, I really don't.

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K

 

[Astral Lovelace]

Fuck 4K, but HDR would be really nice, especially for their games. It and Variable Refresh Rate are the only two things I wish they'd add.

 

[inner-G]

That we might never see a game like Breath of the Wild or Mario Odyssey in 4k?

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I've played BotW in 4K 60fps on CEMU. It's pretty glorious.

 

[TitanicFall]

Phone also costs double or triple the switch.

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Don't really need the phone specific functionality. Isn't the iPad Air that just came out more powerful than the Switch and that's $399 for a 64gb model?

 

[Deleted member 19533]

But then we'll lose the ability to play fire emblem, animal crossing and pokemon on a portable. After Awakening and New leaf I just cant go back to console-only FE and AC games.

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None of those are my cup of tea personally, but I get your point. That's what I meant by it's essentially a Nintendo player. I do have a few Switch games, but no Switch. I intend to buy one near the end when there's a nice revision. I feel it'll be worth it for me then. There's just not a lot of games that fit my tastes (that aren't available on other platforms).

I used to always buy their consoles as a secondary, but I felt the Wii was a bust almost completely, and then the Wii U died so fast. It did have some good games, but it just didn't last long. Those titles are now all on Switch, so that's something to look forward to.