Oct 29, 2017
1,059
cars-rule-657f14162bec6.png

www.ftc.gov

FTC’s CARS Rule: Why a new rule to combat auto retail scams is great news for consumers and honest dealers

In the drive toward Combating Auto Retail Scams, the FTC’s just-announced CARS Rule is a big win for consumers, who lose billions of dollars in wasted time and money each year to illegal practices like bait-and-switch tactics and junk fees. It’s also a big win for honest car dealers who strive...

In the drive toward Combating Auto Retail Scams, the FTC's just-announced CARS Rule is a big win for consumers, who lose billions of dollars in wasted time and money each year to illegal practices like bait-and-switch tactics and junk fees. It's also a big win for honest car dealers who strive to apply established truth-in-car-buying principles at their dealerships and shouldn't have to compete against dealers who don't. Why is the CARS Rule such a game changer and what compliance guidance does the FTC have for industry members? Read on for more information.

The CARS Rule is the culmination of a years-long effort to ensure truth and transparency in the process of buying and leasing cars and trucks. The FTC published a proposed rule last year and received thousands of comments from dealers, consumers groups, and others. Based on what commenters had to say and the FTC's law enforcement efforts to combat auto retail scams, the CARS Rule restates established consumer protection principles in straightforward language specific to the auto industry and includes new remedies if a car dealer engages in certain deceptive or unfair practices.

By stating clear rules of the road that apply across the board, the CARS Rule means consumers can face the car shopping process confident that established standards that apply to any other business also apply to car dealers. What's more, honest car dealers will be less likely to lose a sale to unscrupulous competitors who resort to underhanded tactics to seal the deal. And the CARS Rule does that without requiring consumers or dealers to fill out any new paperwork.

What does the CARS Rule require? You'll want to consult the FTCs new CARS Rule Dealers Guide, but in brief, the CARS Rule:
  • Prohibits misrepresentations about certain material information;
  • Requires dealers to clearly disclose the offering price – the actual price anyone can pay to get the car, excluding only required government charges. Before they visit the dealership and throughout the transaction, consumers have the right to know the drive-off-the-lot price. If a dealer mentions optional add-ons, the dealer has to tell the consumers they can say no. And if discussing a monthly payment, the dealer has to tell the consumer total payment information;
  • Makes it illegal for dealers to charge consumers for add-ons that don't provide a benefit;
  • Requires dealers to get consumers' express, informed consent before charging them for anything.
This rule also goes after dealerships in military towns that prey on young service members who need a car to get around the installation.

The rule goes into effect on July 30, 2024.
 

J_ToSaveTheDay

"This guy are sick" and Corrupted by Vengeance
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
18,988
USA
Seems awesome all-around.

Shame the rollout is this long, but I'm kinda realizing time moves fast for me nowadays and this will be in effect before I know it (2020-2023 all mentally feel like the same single year to me). I still think the rollout could've been shortened a bit though.
 

skeptem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,775
This is great but maybe also allowing cars to be sold direct to consumers would help?
 

BasilZero

Member
Oct 25, 2017
36,563
Omni
Good.

I remember when I bought my last vehicle, the dealership added some stuff but didnt specify the cost of it - got it removed after questioning how much it costs.
 

Damaniel

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
6,548
Portland, OR
While the rule changes are OK (though likely to be lightly enforced, if at all), what really needs to happen is that the dealership model needs to go away entirely. Dealerships (and especially the salespeople) are a bunch of money-sucking leeches who provide no benefit to the transaction at all. If anything, they're the exact opposite; their pay is directly tied to how much they can screw you over, so their own goal is to provide you as little useful information as possible while taking as much money as they can in the process.

I hate Tesla, but their direct sales model is the way that all cars should be sold. Websites and reviews can tell me a lot more about a car than the lies that the dealership will tell you to get you to buy.
 

Pomerlaw

Erarboreal
Member
Feb 25, 2018
8,618
While the rule changes are OK (though likely to be lightly enforced, if at all), what really needs to happen is that the dealership model needs to go away entirely. Dealerships (and especially the salespeople) are a bunch of money-sucking leeches who provide no benefit to the transaction at all. If anything, they're the exact opposite; their pay is directly tied to how much they can screw you over, so their own goal is to provide you as little useful information as possible while taking as much money as they can in the process.

I hate Tesla, but their direct sales model is the way that all cars should be sold. Websites and reviews can tell me a lot more about a car than the lies that the dealership will tell you to get you to buy.
I agree 100% but I don't think this will happen in our lifetimes.
 

NekoNeko

Coward
Oct 26, 2017
18,671
can dealerships just charge you whatever they want for a car in the us?
here we have dealerships but it doesn't matter where you buy your car the price will be the same everywhere.
 
Jan 4, 2021
1,971
can dealerships just charge you whatever they want for a car in the us?
here we have dealerships but it doesn't matter where you buy your car the price will be the same everywhere.
It's basically an auction house here. They will sell you a car and buy it from another dealership and pass the expense on to you. It's wild. Online tools help a ton now but for those not in the know going to a dealership is scary and confusing
 

NekoNeko

Coward
Oct 26, 2017
18,671
It's basically an auction house here. They will sell you a car and buy it from another dealership and pass the expense on to you. It's wild. Online tools help a ton now but for those not in the know going to a dealership is scary and confusing
that sucks.
here the dealership is a pretty easy process. you see the price online so you know what you will pay. the only annoying thing is that you have to go in at all but most will do a test drive anyway before buying.
 

bionic77

Member
Oct 25, 2017
30,905
The one thing I like about dealerships is you will usually have a local store and repair center for your car.

The repair situation for Teslas is horrible in comparison.

Not sure if there is a way to create a happy medium. Direct to sales but local shops that are responsible for a certain level of quality.
 

GalacticMouse

Member
Oct 25, 2017
592
can dealerships just charge you whatever they want for a car in the us?
here we have dealerships but it doesn't matter where you buy your car the price will be the same everywhere.

Yes, when supply got very limited during the height of the pandemic, it was really common to see brand new cars marked up to $10,000 over MSRP if not more.
 

blackhawk163

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,258
Good! The local Ciocca dealership tried this "Oh but this fee and that fee" stuff on my husband after they agreed on the price, and also tried changing the finance company from his bank to theirs.

He walked right out. He warned them not to pull that crap. He subsequently went to another dealership to buy his Outback Wilderness and told them what he was expecting to pay and not a penny over. That included all taxes.

As they sat down and started the paperwork, the issue of add ons and fees started to raise the price up past what he told him was his bottom line. He made them workout the pricing so that the mandatory fees (tax/title) did not exceed the agreed upon pricing.

I think for our next purchase we'll look into buying directly from the manufacturer, but this is NJ, so I don't know about that.
 

GungHo

Member
Nov 27, 2017
6,220
Yes, when supply got very limited during the height of the pandemic, it was really common to see brand new cars marked up to $10,000 over MSRP if not more.
And some of them are still trying this just in case it works and then act "heroic" when you call them on it, saying, "my manager will hate me for this, but I can knock this down if you'll just do your financing through us."
 

turbobrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,188
Phoenix, AZ
While the rule changes are OK (though likely to be lightly enforced, if at all), what really needs to happen is that the dealership model needs to go away entirely. Dealerships (and especially the salespeople) are a bunch of money-sucking leeches who provide no benefit to the transaction at all. If anything, they're the exact opposite; their pay is directly tied to how much they can screw you over, so their own goal is to provide you as little useful information as possible while taking as much money as they can in the process.

I hate Tesla, but their direct sales model is the way that all cars should be sold. Websites and reviews can tell me a lot more about a car than the lies that the dealership will tell you to get you to buy.

Unfortunately that will never happen. But it would be nice if you can just order any car you want and pay the actual price and not have to deal with salesmen. Though the downside is without a dealership how are you going to test drive a car before you buy? I guess if the shop still exists, you can display new models there.
 

Isilia

Member
Mar 11, 2019
5,875
US: PA
When I was a wee lad of 20, I was introduced to the full car dealership experience.

Special paint, wheel air, extended warranty that covers nothing, etc.

Young me was a fool.
 

Doomguy Fieri

Member
Nov 3, 2017
5,300
I remember filling the tires of my wife's CRV like 10 years ago, then taking it into the dealership for a service, and them being like "oh you let out the nitrogen." It had green stem caps which I guess is supposed to warn the laymen that there is precious nitrogen inside the tires. I don't remember if they tried to upsell me a nitrogen refresh or not, but I do remember just the befuddled feeling of like, "huh? Nitrogen? What?"
 

Orayn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,126
We should legislate car dealerships out of existence and jail the people who run them. Bunch of evil rent-seeking parasites.
 

Cation

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
3,603
Only benefit of all nitrogen is that tire pressure doesn't change as much when temperature drops.

But yeah about time. Was getting ridiculous
 

mrmoose

Member
Nov 13, 2017
21,384
can dealerships just charge you whatever they want for a car in the us?
here we have dealerships but it doesn't matter where you buy your car the price will be the same everywhere.

Yes, it's a game which can take an entire day as they try to whittle down your resistance by basically keeping you hostage all day. It's unbelievable that this is still the main way to buy a car in the US.
 

Zok310

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,686
I remember when i refinanced my car the bank wanted to charge me for a bag of shit i already paid for at the dealer. I had to nix all the added stuff they was trying to toss in to get the refinance terms thats right for me. The while process of buying and refinancing cars in the usa is among the biggest scam in the country right up there with prescription medicine.
 

Jedi2016

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,985
Isn't nitrogen just... air?

Or are they betting on most people not actually knowing Earth's atmospheric composition?

I'm hoping I can get out of it next time.. I know the dealer will have to finish the paperwork and all that, but my plan is to just put it together on the website and then go pick it up at the dealer a month later.
 

grand

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,260
can dealerships just charge you whatever they want for a car in the us?
here we have dealerships but it doesn't matter where you buy your car the price will be the same everywhere.
It's bad enough that dealerships being scammers is a long running comedy joke in the US:


View: https://youtu.be/4oaEfBMA7AE?si=PR7TNDyes9JPjWo0

View: https://youtu.be/hPy_9SRmexE?si=ZiA_kbMY3eQ8pCUB

And these were (accurate) jokes from the 90s. Now you'd be lucky to even pay the sticker price.
 

TheBryanJZX90

Member
Nov 29, 2017
3,037
So besides the lobbying efforts of dealership owner groups, getting rid of independent dealerships would also mean manufacturers would take on the cost and liability of paying all of the service and sales people
 

PepsimanVsJoe

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,202
Yes, it's a game which can take an entire day as they try to whittle down your resistance by basically keeping you hostage all day. It's unbelievable that this is still the main way to buy a car in the US.
The one time I bought a car from a neighbor was the nicest experience ever. I handed them the cash, they handed me the title & keys, and I was on the road in less than 5 minutes.
 

Orayn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,126
Isn't nitrogen just... air?

Or are they betting on most people not actually knowing Earth's atmospheric composition?

I'm hoping I can get out of it next time.. I know the dealer will have to finish the paperwork and all that, but my plan is to just put it together on the website and then go pick it up at the dealer a month later.
Air is 78% nitrogen, some places will fill your tires with pure nitrogen for an added fee, but the benefits are minor to dubious and it also means you have to come back to them to top them off. It's a blatant scam.
 

pooptest

Member
Oct 27, 2017
636
Is this generalized across the board or just for new sales? I get my tires (and refills) at Costco which are nitrogen-filled.
 

LGHT_TRSN

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,244
Air is 78% nitrogen, some places will fill your tires with pure nitrogen for an added fee, but the benefits are minor to dubious and it also means you have to come back to them to top them off. It's a blatant scam.

The benefit is more stable air pressures when temperatures change. Honestly I've never heard of it being offered at an additional cost.....as already mentioned Costco does it by default.

Edit: When I think of these kinds of scams I think of underbody coating.
 

TheKeipatzy

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
2,812
California for now
Or go to costco and fill up for free...
Oh yes cuz not all of us have Costco memberships...

Thankfully most gas stations have the ability to get free air if you have a purchase of any sort but I learned a long time ago thanks to the loveliness of dirt roads where I live to have a little $25 portable cigarette lighter powered air pump.

And nitrogen is a $10 scam. Same as those places that do wiper replacement when most of the time you don't really need another.
 

GoldenEye 007

Roll Tide, Y'all!
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,835
Texas
Oh yes cuz not all of us have Costco memberships...

Thankfully most gas stations have the ability to get free air if you have a purchase of any sort but I learned a long time ago thanks to the loveliness of dirt roads where I live to have a little $25 portable cigarette lighter powered air pump.

And nitrogen is a $10 scam. Same as those places that do wiper replacement when most of the time you don't really need another.
Pretty sure the Costco ones are just in the parking lot. Nobody is checking for a card. But they can get crowded and there isn't a good way to wait in line.

So yeah likely not worth the time when even if you had to pay for air, it's like $1-$2. Or go to Discount Tire and they'll do it for free and you don't even have to get out the car. I just throw the guy $1-2 for the trouble if I have cash on me.
 

pooptest

Member
Oct 27, 2017
636
Pretty sure the Costco ones are just in the parking lot. Nobody is checking for a card. But they can get crowded and there isn't a good way to wait in line.

So yeah likely not worth the time when even if you had to pay for air, it's like $1-$2. Or go to Discount Tire and they'll do it for free and you don't even have to get out the car. I just throw the guy $1-2 for the trouble if I have cash on me.

This is correct, at least by the 2 Costco's be me. No card needed. There's a couple pumps free to use right by the Tire Center. Just select the PSI you need and attach, it'll stop when it reaches your selected PSI.
 

Falchion

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,176
Boise
This is great news to cut out some of the bullshit in the car buying process. Now allow direct consumer purchases next!