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Noam Chomsky - Trump-Russia Collusion is and always has been a total joke
- Thread starter Deleted member 21339
- Start date
Its common sense is what it is. If you want to attack Trump, there are countless ways to do so. His higher ups have been caught for as much financial corruption as they have already. But you focus on the one thing that is clearly silly? Not just collusion of foreign governments for their own policy benefit which is clearly happening with multiple counties at the moment, but specific Putin and Trump collusion to steal the election away from Hillary in a shady back room somewhere?
Come on fam.
Come on fam.
Well, leave it to Chomsky to put all the blame back on the U.S. itself. Also, did he just downplay Trump's favorable treatment of Russia and try to paint Trump as being completely against the interests of Russia?
"I think it is so farcical that I barely read the reports." Well, he isn't off to a great start.
He isn't just talking about collusion here as I'm watching---he actually makes a claim that Russia didn't interfere in the elections. But...we know they absolutely interfered.
Now he is talking about corporations interfering in elections...okay. Why does that make Trump-Russia collusion a joke?
This video is a lot of "Yeah, but what about?"
He isn't just talking about collusion here as I'm watching---he actually makes a claim that Russia didn't interfere in the elections. But...we know they absolutely interfered.
Now he is talking about corporations interfering in elections...okay. Why does that make Trump-Russia collusion a joke?
This video is a lot of "Yeah, but what about?"
Nate Silver said it best last year when he cautioned that Democrats should treat the Mueller investigation as something to not plan around or expect to go their way. I think he likened it to extra steak sauce on a nice cut of meat or something...
My hope is that this doesn't send Democrats into a melodramatic tizzy that they try to double down on, treating Russian influence as this existential boogeyman isn't something that their winning strategy should require. I think the midterms were proof of that.
My hope is that this doesn't send Democrats into a melodramatic tizzy that they try to double down on, treating Russian influence as this existential boogeyman isn't something that their winning strategy should require. I think the midterms were proof of that.
That's how Chomsky does things.
Elected dems did not plan around the Mueller investigation.
It also is not what is keeping Trump's approval ratings low.
So trump didn't pull BS on easing Russian sanctions?....
Even Lindsay Graham knows better, lol
https://about.bgov.com/news/what-to-know-in-washington-russia-sanction-threats/
Even Lindsay Graham knows better, lol
https://about.bgov.com/news/what-to-know-in-washington-russia-sanction-threats/
To be fair, his actions with regards to Venezuela and arguably Syria have hardly been to Russian benefit.
This has always been my problem with Chomsky, he's a genius in his chosen field, but treats anything that contradicts his anti-establishment bent as fantasy and a joke.
The fact that we have decades of evidence that Russia--and other authoritarian regimes--do interfere in other nation's politics, including support for separatist and White Nationalist goons, is waved away by arm-chair "Anarcho-Syndicalists" like Chomsky will be a black mark on his academic work long after he's worm food.
Pro Tip: whining about "America did it first, mom!" is an invitation to ignore whatever falls from your lips next.
The fact that we have decades of evidence that Russia--and other authoritarian regimes--do interfere in other nation's politics, including support for separatist and White Nationalist goons, is waved away by arm-chair "Anarcho-Syndicalists" like Chomsky will be a black mark on his academic work long after he's worm food.
Pro Tip: whining about "America did it first, mom!" is an invitation to ignore whatever falls from your lips next.
I'm at work so I can't watch the video right now and I curious as to how things like Manafort passing polling data to Russian Oligarchs, Jr. exchanging emails with Russians promising dirt on Hillary and the coordination of the release of hacked emails is a joke.
I can definitely see a scenario where a law enforcement investigator like Mueller would find that the evidence of these incidents we're too cicumstantial to directly link Trump and Putin coordinating to defeat Hillary but the last two years of Russiagate wasn't a liberal fever dream, there is substance behind it.
I can definitely see a scenario where a law enforcement investigator like Mueller would find that the evidence of these incidents we're too cicumstantial to directly link Trump and Putin coordinating to defeat Hillary but the last two years of Russiagate wasn't a liberal fever dream, there is substance behind it.
Perhaps no collusion on the surface level, but there is still likely some kind of quid pro quo there. I bet some kind of kompromat may exist, too.
There's too much weirdness all around.
There's too much weirdness all around.
I'm not sure how you can argue Syria beyond a couple of one-off incidents. We absolutely helped Russia take control of Syria, through Assad, by helping with ISIS and abandoning the Kurds.
Yeah that's how I've felt for a while, although there have been signals pointing towards potential interference/collusion with the Trump campaign and while that is certainly worth investigating, everyone putting all their hopes into this being an easy way out are wasting their time.
So his argument is essentially "Russian interference is a joke because US election system is already corrupted at its core."
I mean, he isn't wrong, but that doesn't say anything about the actual Russian influence. His message is "who cares, you guys have bigger fish to fry" in a nutshell.
I mean, he isn't wrong, but that doesn't say anything about the actual Russian influence. His message is "who cares, you guys have bigger fish to fry" in a nutshell.
for somebody who studies languages for a living he sure does not know how to be concise
Depends which field - his contributions to linguistics are complete shite and seemingly hard to flush.
I think helping with ISIS in Syria is to the benefit of the entire international community. As far as Assad, there was never any real shot we would push him out without sparking some kind of global conflict.
The Democrats didn't rely on the Mueller probe or Russian collusion to take back the House in the mid terms. I'm not sure why people keep stating this. They might be doing investigations and forming committee's to investigate Trump's misdeeds but its by no means the only thing they've been running on, not even close.
My point is that that can't be construed as an anti-Russia action.
To be fair to CNN, they have actually had this exact talking point on repeat the last few days. That the Democrats haven't been focused on Mueller Report in the 2018 election and beyond, but rather have been focusing on the issues(like healthcare) as they should be. I gotta give them credit for that and I'm usually pretty cynical about CNN.
Not only is Russian interference undeniable, but Trump immediately began throwing up roadblocks to investigations into the interference. Under the conditions that existed, how could you not take collusion as a serious possibility?
Maybe the media speculation was overblown, but to say there was never any evidence of collusion and we were fools for investigating it is just a hack take.
The only people I tend to see making these arguments are folks who were angry that the investigations had any attention at all.
Not to mention the investigation was started by a republican firing a republican causing a republican appointed by a republican that was appointed by a republican to create an investigation of a republican headed by a republican.
That may be true, my only real exposure to his academic work was sophomore comparative linguistics course, where the professor had a real soft spot for Chomsky's politics.
Hard to take him seriously based off his first sentence given that Russian interference, at least in the form of IRA misinformation and astroturfing of Facebook and other social media, is a well established fact. Was its effect significant? Perhaps not, but pretending it doesn't exist is absurd.
Still have yet to see any compelling reason why the media shouldn't have given top priority to an internal counter-intelligence investigation into a sitting President's involvement in a hostile foreign power's attack on our election system. There is no point in the modern era where that wouldn't have dominated media coverage.
Yeah it seems to still be taught/popular in the States. Generative grammar and Chomskyan linguistics in general are becoming more rare in the UK. Thankfully. He does a lot of good stuff in philosophy and politics tbh, it's just his language models which are to put it politely, extremely outdated.
Chomsky's argument against this is typically Chomskian argument against anything:
Whatever any foreign adversery does to the United States is a total joke because Israel does it to the United States, or the United States does it in other places, so therefore it's a joke.
This is not a valid argument against Russia, an antagonistic foreign adversary, deliberately targeting Americans to sway them in the favor of Donald Trump, a person who it would be in their interest to be president. That is what Russian Collusion and Russian interference is.
Chomsky is incapable of separating himself from his Cold War dissidency. Americans are not looking at 2016 election interference to justify going to war against Russia. They're not looking at it to justify keeping Russia out of the G8 (although certainly Russia should still be kept out of the G8). We're using 2016 as a lesson of introspection for ourselves, not as interventionist foreign policy lessons. Chomsky cannot look at it from this perspective, which is why it's a joke for him, he can only look at it from the perspective of 2016 election interference as justifying a the new 'Hot Peace,' because his mindset is still that of the Cold War Euro-American dissident.
What is refreshing, for me, is that all it took for other liberals to be critical of Russia is proof that Russia conspired to win an election for Republicans. For the first time in almost 60 years, the reigning liberal order in the United States stopped trying to apologize, explain away, and diminish Russian antagonism against the West. Ukraine wasn't enough, Chechnya wasn't enough, Iran Syria and Lebanon weren't enough. It just took Russia helping Donald Trump to win an election.
What's really too bad, now, is that the further left of the liberal American order has now abandoned the Russian interference angle because it won't serve their flimsy goal. Once it became clear that 'Russiagate' was not going to directly result in the impeachment of Donald Trump, it's now an issue that the further left has no interest in, and now, of course, "They knew it was a farse all along!" (success has many fathers, while failure is an orphan, and what have you) Because for them, the Mueller investigation wasn't about protecting American institutions, it was simply about impeaching Trump, and with that goal lost, the whole thing is a waste for them.
Whatever any foreign adversery does to the United States is a total joke because Israel does it to the United States, or the United States does it in other places, so therefore it's a joke.
This is not a valid argument against Russia, an antagonistic foreign adversary, deliberately targeting Americans to sway them in the favor of Donald Trump, a person who it would be in their interest to be president. That is what Russian Collusion and Russian interference is.
Chomsky is incapable of separating himself from his Cold War dissidency. Americans are not looking at 2016 election interference to justify going to war against Russia. They're not looking at it to justify keeping Russia out of the G8 (although certainly Russia should still be kept out of the G8). We're using 2016 as a lesson of introspection for ourselves, not as interventionist foreign policy lessons. Chomsky cannot look at it from this perspective, which is why it's a joke for him, he can only look at it from the perspective of 2016 election interference as justifying a the new 'Hot Peace,' because his mindset is still that of the Cold War Euro-American dissident.
What is refreshing, for me, is that all it took for other liberals to be critical of Russia is proof that Russia conspired to win an election for Republicans. For the first time in almost 60 years, the reigning liberal order in the United States stopped trying to apologize, explain away, and diminish Russian antagonism against the West. Ukraine wasn't enough, Chechnya wasn't enough, Iran Syria and Lebanon weren't enough. It just took Russia helping Donald Trump to win an election.
What's really too bad, now, is that the further left of the liberal American order has now abandoned the Russian interference angle because it won't serve their flimsy goal. Once it became clear that 'Russiagate' was not going to directly result in the impeachment of Donald Trump, it's now an issue that the further left has no interest in, and now, of course, "They knew it was a farse all along!" (success has many fathers, while failure is an orphan, and what have you) Because for them, the Mueller investigation wasn't about protecting American institutions, it was simply about impeaching Trump, and with that goal lost, the whole thing is a waste for them.
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I think his stance on Russian meddling is pretty fucked, but I agree with him that the collusion thing was always a waste of time.
Is Noam Chomsky cancelled now? Or is he also a Russian agent?
America, an issue is with the way your cable news poisons the public into mass hysteria. It is not healthy. It's far worse than anything we can even accuse the Daily Mail of in the UK.
Time to stop shouting Russia at everyone and sort out voting better in 2020.
America, an issue is with the way your cable news poisons the public into mass hysteria. It is not healthy. It's far worse than anything we can even accuse the Daily Mail of in the UK.
Time to stop shouting Russia at everyone and sort out voting better in 2020.
Your entire post is spot on, but that's the key line right there. Anyone about to watch or read anything from Chomsky should recite that sentence aloud before beginning.
This was my take as well, and probably the most charitable interpretation of Chomsky's argument. He is arguing that the media attention allocated to Russian interference is undeserved because it is simply one instance of domestic and foreign interests exercising their wealth and power to undermine the democratic process. It isn't a good look for Chomsky to ignore documented instances of Russian interference, but I don't think his perspective is that unreasonable - he's after the bigger fish.
Too late lmao.
Chomsky is dumb as hell to ignore all of the concluded, ongoing, and pending investigations regarding Trump's favoritism towards Russia.
I disagree but keep pushing the false notion that people can't focus on more than one thing.
I'm not pushing any notion other than the fact that I think people are wasting their time. You and everyone else can continue to do as you like. No one is stopping you.