Deleted member 9838

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Check out the source: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/11/18/world/asia/china-rules.html

In the uncertain years after Mao's death, long before China became an industrial juggernaut, before the Communist Party went on a winning streak that would reshape the world, a group of economics students gathered at a mountain retreat outside Shanghai. There, in the bamboo forests of Moganshan, the young scholars grappled with a pressing question: How could China catch up with the West?

It was the autumn of 1984, and on the other side of the world, Ronald Reagan was promising "morning again in America." China, meanwhile, was just recovering from decades of political and economic turmoil. There had been progress in the countryside, but more than three-quarters of the population still lived in extreme poverty. The state decided where everyone worked, what every factory made and how much everything cost.

The students and researchers attending the Academic Symposium of Middle-Aged and Young Economists wanted to unleash market forces but worried about crashing the economy — and alarming the party bureaucrats and ideologues who controlled it.

Late one night, they reached a consensus: Factories should meet state quotas but sell anything extra they made at any price they chose. It was a clever, quietly radical proposal to undercut the planned economy — and it intrigued a young party official in the room who had no background in economics. "As they were discussing the problem, I didn't say anything at all," recalled Xu Jing'an, now 76 and retired. "I was thinking, how do we make this work?"

The Chinese economy has grown so fast for so long now that it is easy to forget how unlikely its metamorphosis into a global powerhouse was, how much of its ascent was improvised and born of desperation. The proposal that Mr. Xu took from the mountain retreat, soon adopted as government policy, was a pivotal early step in this astounding transformation.

China now leads the world in the number of homeowners, internet users, college graduates and, by some counts, billionaires. Extreme poverty has fallen to less than 1 percent. An isolated, impoverished backwater has evolved into the most significant rival to the United States since the fall of the Soviet Union.

It makes me wonder if democracy is truly eroding away slowly and if it is even necessary for a country to develop :\
 

Trojita

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Oct 25, 2017
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I'd like to know where this article goes, but I also don't want to give NYT a click.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,070
Yikes

Not like this NYT...

I don't think this is going to get you the kind of attention you thought you wanted.

Wow
 

Deleted member 135

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I'm not sure if China becoming a dominant power in the world is a good thing.
Only if you like concentration and reeducation camps, forced disappearances, occupations of sovereign nations, an Orwellian social credit system, an extremely fragile economy, no free elections, being ruled by a fat lazy bear, and slavery.


Anyone who says "lawl just like the US amirite?" has the sociopolitical understanding of a Trump.
 
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OP
OP

Deleted member 9838

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Ac30

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Oct 30, 2017
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this seems like head in the sand sort of thinking

I don't like it as much as the next person but there is compelling evidence here the model China has is going to work for the long term and maybe even better which is unpleasant

Once you establish complete control of your population, yeah, it'll probably last. Thanks technology!
 

Inuhanyou

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Oct 25, 2017
14,214
New Jersey
the issue is that the USA's shrinking due to its own corruption and stretching itself too thin in multiple areas instead of growing its domestic economy and population is giving china far more relevance in the worldscape.

Dont like china? Invest more in America to compete. Unfortunately as far as communist nations go, China is on top and isnt going away
 

shnurgleton

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Oct 27, 2017
15,864
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not like you have much of a choice when the president of the United States is saying we need to rake our forests more
T0zctyh.gif
 

Excuse me

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,060
That independent sources have confirmed or is it what China says?

Well, I'll hopefully be dead before the Chinese Authoritarianism nightmare takes over the world.
I think there are various sources for this. World Bank and Credit Suisse are both independent and say the same. Unless they get their data directly from Chinese gov.
 

Trojita

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,721
this seems like head in the sand sort of thinking

I don't like it as much as the next person but there is compelling evidence here the model China has is going to work for the long term and maybe even better which is unpleasant
I don't want to give NYT a click. Maybe they could report on the million people in "reeducation" camps.
 

Keasar

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Oct 25, 2017
5,724
Umeå, Sweden
this seems like head in the sand sort of thinking

I don't like it as much as the next person but there is compelling evidence here the model China has is going to work for the long term and maybe even better which is unpleasant
Yeeaaaaah I'd rather be dead than seeing the world implement this:
Only if you like concentration and reeducation camps, forced disappearances, occupations of sovereign nations, an Orwellian social credit system, an extremely fragile economy, no free elections, being ruled by a fat lazy bear, and slavery.
China is a humanitarian shitshow.

They have tried to make my country look like a country of humanitarian crisis because of this bullshit:
https://www.resetera.com/threads/ch...uman-rights-over-treatment-of-tourists.69137/
And the Chinese government tried to enforce repercussions cause of a comedy shows' (rightfully called pretty tasteless) video which the show apologized for, but at least only to the Chinese people while still telling the Chinese government to fuck off.

China is currently doing a world campaign of trying to smear other countries into obedience and what they did to mine was to test the waters and see what they could get away with. Thankfully most of the world is still pretty damn sensible and told the Chinese Regime to shut up.
 
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Narroo

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Feb 27, 2018
1,819
Check out the source: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/11/18/world/asia/china-rules.html



It makes me wonder if democracy is truly eroding away slowly and if it is even necessary for a country to develop :\
To be fair, I double that China would have ever "developed" if it weren't forced to by other, mostly democratic, countries. If you look at history, China was pretty much was an authoritarian state that squashed any hints of progress until it was invaded and ruined by foreign countries that did progress. China was dragged into the 20th century kicking and screaming.

The real question is, can China, or any other highly authoritarian country, be a real leader of progress, or can they only play catch up?
 

hobblygobbly

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Oct 25, 2017
7,763
NORDFRIESLAND, DEUTSCHLAND
China "rules" the same way Nazi Germany "ruled" when it catapulted industry and economy of the country (not democratically and fairness). What a fucking shit article, fawning over its pursuit but fails to detail oppression, specifically of minority groups. Of course it's easier when you rule with an iron fist, you don't have to care about human rights and other rights like press freedom keeping a check on the government, you can jut do what you want!

Edit: found the part where there's just a blurb about Uyghurs. This article barely covers any of the severe issues in China, you can't write fawning articles like this while such issues exist.
 
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neon_dream

Member
Dec 18, 2017
3,644
Does China have a better healthcare system than the USA?

I've been able to work with a few Chinese medical school graduates. I haven't seen it first hand but here is what they said.

The standard of care is behind the US. Physicians also make decisions that aren't necessarily in the best health interest of the patient, but rather to protect themselves from criticism (from patients, from the organization).

US healthcare is dichotomous. It's both the leader in terms of cutting edge practice, technology, research, and high quality physicians. If you're well-to-do, and that means even middle class not upper class, it's among the best in the world. On the other end, it lacks universal coverage and for the poorest of the poor it lacks access. In that regards, it can be brutal.
 

kess

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,020
Funny how South Korea, which has similarly improved living standards in the same time frame is not held a a shining example despite much more transparent and free democratic institutions.