it actually does have to be men because men (as a demographic, not individuals) dont listen to women. the idea that women have, at no point, tried to stop this is comedic
NYT Opinion: A Huge Gender Gap Is Emerging Among Young Voters
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Polling is completely broken so even if this is true I'm not inclined to believe any research being done currently
huh weird, it's almost as though the op article is dangerous junk that lifts up a popular narrative without actual data
One wonders if the article itself is a ragebait engagement farm 🤔
From a source that recently, explicitly declared open war on the Biden campaign
Hmmmm
What do you mean by healthy alternative? There is good content available for every single niche these days, the problem is that social media pushes the kind of people who generate the most traffic (assholes).
To solve this we should start blaming Musk and Zuckeberg, not women or feminism.
But the impeccable NYT wouldn't put out an opinion piece citing a Republican pollster at odds with other polling just to make Biden look bad. Not the Times.
It's a bit absurd, but Trump absolutely has a machismo "strong man" attitude that resonates with a lot of men. Even his absurd stuff like "Russia would never have attacked Ukraine if I was president" is from that, he's pretending that he's such a strong and intimidating man that Russia wouldn't have dared, and his voters eat it up. It's the brand he's cultivated.
To be stupid enough to look at that whiny, pampered pissant and think they're looking at someone strong...
I saw someone say these ideas, the ones about feminism and women, have always existed in young men. Its just they were never "political." You had leftist douches and right douches. But the right has weaponized and politicized these some of these asshole pushing a small number of them right. And its not even that large of a shift. 9 to 5%. advantage?
What this article feels like is people trying to hawk their own book that takes advantage of whatever todays new moral panic is about kids.
What this article feels like is people trying to hawk their own book that takes advantage of whatever todays new moral panic is about kids.
Did people not make fun of short guys or nerds before 2012? That's not pushing people right.
Because its designed to go nowhere. Its a moral panic article.
I feel like cost of living is the biggest factor. The more time that goes on with higher gas prices, grocery prices, etc. the more people attribute it to whoever the current president is and think the next one will magically fix it lol
Of course it's women who have proposed the alternatives and fought for them, but the idea that women (as individuals, not as a demographic) cannot reproduce sexism in any of its forms, or that gender as a system of oppression is only perpetuated by men, is just as comedic.
I will never for the life of me understand why anyone sees Trump and thinks he's "strong."
He is a spoiled little bitch if I've ever seen one.
He is a spoiled little bitch if I've ever seen one.
Women have been forced to compete with men in their society. Like, we've got centuries of women speaking out against the order of things, being more open and expressive of our emotions, and fighting the status quo.
The fact that some dipshit influencer to say dumb shit about women to turn them around is disheartening. Our efforts to be equals seems to cause a massive knee-jerk reaction every single time --- too often us speaking about harassment gets turned back in our face. Why did we need to push for equal rights, suffrages, bodily rights... but then Joe Rogencomes around, says some shit, and we're back to blaming women for... speaking up??
Why is this our fault?
Because if you're a bigot who has had to hold your tongue to keep from facing the righteous consequences of voicing your bigotry, seeing someone openly say the things you want to, especially a "successful" person without fear of consequences, that might seem like strength to you.
I don't think we tore down gender roles at all, is the issue. I think it's because we're trying to tear it down and some men are trying to their hardest to hold onto it.
there isn't much thought being put into it. its usually just vote against anyone currently in power.
'Strenght', the dude is literally sleeping during his trial.
'Tell it like it is attitude', he's lying just about everything 24/7 and expresses himself like a brain damaged, childish bully. So basically you just agree with the insults and unfiltered racism.
Me Too as a movement was great, and did a lot to help bring visibility to the heinous shit that happens in Hollywood.
Yes All Men was not an appropriate catchphrase as a response to people claiming that they weren't sexually assaulting people, because it was a stupid generalisation that disenfranchised kids who were watching all this and being told that their birth gender is rotten.
Since when did speaking up have anything to do with not making sweeping generalisations?
I don't think the gender roles have been torn down, but I do think the majority consensus that that is the good and natural order of things has been. Which is why more people than ever are willing to speak up and push back.
I also think that the current strand of misogyny and toxic masculinity promoted by Andrew Tate, Jordan Peterson et al is uniquely violent and ultra-regressive as to be distinguished from the "old" consensus on gender roles and the meaning of masculinity, if not in substance then at least in tone. I'm sure a lot of it is fake nostalgia for the "good ol' days," but a big part of their audience, especially the younger men, *do* feel like they're being exposed to new ideas.
I'm sure its increasing like most, maybe not as much as white dudes. But I've never seen dudes of all races align as fast as a chance to put women down as a whole.
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Women can absolutely be sexist, nobody has argued that. But a system of oppression can only be operated by men. There is absolutely no systemic oppression of men by women, for it's the men who have the power, not the women.
This is why Biden keeps on telling it how it is, and calling him a loser . He might not win the 18-29 men, but for those that want that 'nobody fucks with a Biden' that's a good balance to actual policy
These are most likely polls of likely voters, with the choices being Biden, Trump, and one or both of someone else and undecided. If a respondent says they are not voting, then they are not included in the poll results. Former likely Biden voters are more likely to withhold their vote based on Gaza than Trump supporters, a change that will shift the likely voter percentage toward Trump without increasing the absolute number of voters for him.
Voters do not have consistently liberal or conservative views. If the parties' stance on an issue is too close for a voter, then they are not going to look at the minor difference and decide that someone is better on that issue. They are going to ignore the issue when deciding how to vote. For example, if (obviously this is just a hypothetical) Biden's stance on abortion is banned except to save the woman's life, and Trump's stance is banned in all circumstances, many professional class women will no longer use abortion to differentiate the two, even though Biden's stance is objectively better. For a real (though probably small) example, look at the conservatives who voted for Biden because Trump was an incoherent mess on foreign policy who was weakening the American Empire. These people may see Biden's actions on Gaza as completely torching American propaganda in the Global South and pushing most of the world into the arms of China as a hedge against the American Empire. Suddenly Trump's tax cuts and regressive social policies look more attractive as deciding issues for these people, rather than foreign policy.
Uh which side is this because I run in a lot of feminist circles and this is the first time I've ever heard this.
Incels. Incels are the side saying that. Because nobody else is so they're just making shit up.
How do you think people are supposed to take #YesAllMen in the context of #MeToo?
Like, I get it. The "not all men" response was irritating and it was easy for people to want to snap back, but it did no favours, and lead to a lot of people just not feeling welcome in feminist spaces.
I get that there's this common impulse to use ludicrous hyperbole for rhetorical purposes, but this is total nonsense even in that context. Take a look at the demographics for enrollment and degree attainment in higher education, the demographics of the workforce, marriage rates, demographics of judicial and lawmaking bodies at the federal and state levels, the status of reproductive rights, laws about sexual harassment, and countless other examples in society today compared to 70 years ago. The average 30-year-old U.S. woman in 2024 has more autonomy than her equivalent in 1954 by a wide margin because society has repeatedly been forced to shift the norms on gender roles. Hell, it was hard to get a mortgage as a single woman until 50 years ago. None of the above even gets into the numerous changes as to what's considered acceptable social etiquette.
I mean look at the tenor of responses on this very web page. A neutral party reading it may very well conclude that progressives are anti-men. We certainly have plenty of people dismissive about their plight on the basis of gender. To me feminism is about tearing down old gender riles that oppress men and women, but society really hasn't done much to facilitate what men's role should be in in the new paradigm, we are seeing the positive effects of programs designed to assist women and girls we can't ignore that many men are feeling lost or act like they are responsible for the sins of their fathers and just collectively shrug.
#YesAllMen means that all men are responsible for helping dismantle rape culture, not that they are all guilty of sexual assault. If that's enough to make certain men feel unwelcome then they probably need to do some introspection as to why they are so defensive about being asked to combat rape culture.
Most men AND women do not regularly engage in deep retrospective about the collective responsibility they have as a gender for perpetuating societal paradigms. It's really not a reasonable expectation that people take that meaning from that phrase. It makes it way easier to drive people to charlatans like Trump or Peterson or Tate.
I cannot agree. Yeah, Trump and Tate are easier answers. Doesn't make it right, nor does it make the full reckoning with the term unreasonable. I don't even think it's terribly hard, without ego or arrogance, to understand.
It's not for an adult, but these guys target kids/teenagers to start their indoctrination young and the easiest way to do that is to prey upon a misunderstanding with manipulation.
So, what is the conversation here? The tag is #yesallmen. Not boys. Yes, boys are vulnerable to the trash mentioned in the post I quoted. Men fall for it too, though. That's the conversation thread I was posting in.
God fucking thank you.
A man forced himself on me and the next day I was told by my male roommates at the time who were his friends that I was "talking to him and didn't seem to be upset". They were not bad people but none of them understood why I abruptly left the school a few days after. The point was to make men understand that they are doing things in a much greater context than they know.
No, you don't get it. You don't understand shit tbh.
It's actually all genders being oppressed by patriarchy, which has men at the top but affects all people and is perpetuated by people of all genders. Men do have a higher standing in patriarchy, if they perform the role expected of them.
What are you talking about? The role of men hasn't changed at all. They can still be providers, they can still be the bread makers, the mechanics, the builders.... They just can't do it while making women subservient, by treating women as less than, as property. They need to learn consent, that women are people with their own lives and feelings.
Way too many people conflate masculinity with toxic masculinity and it's very telling.
Yep. In the UK there is a prevailing wisdom to teach young boys in a similar manner to young girls which a lot of teachers have warned is one of the first steps on this path. Boys end up feeling left behind and the academic achievement split between boys and girls in the UK tends to show this.
Power in society is not nearly as neatly divided. Especially when talking in such huge categories.
A neutral party reading this is more likely to conclude that even "progressive" men fucking hate women lmao
Whoever gets elected generally gets blamed for whatever unfortunate thing happens during their tenure
Regards to gaza It's honestly probably not people jumping to trump or Republicans due to their public views and more dissatisfaction with biden
Why do you think women should be the ones deciding the role of men in society? Like this is even possible
For real.
Whenever I see this come up online on places like reddit.
There's always posts about how men are being left behind, they can't be blamed for embracing misogyny, etc.
The "Men are the victim, and that's why we hate women" wrapped up in how they're blameless for embracing Peterson / Tate etc.
At least to me, it feels like there's an underlying threat underneath all this rhetoric.
That if they don't get treated with "respect" they're going to get even more right wing.
So they'll keep getting right wing, and then what?
There's always posts about how men are being left behind, they can't be blamed for embracing misogyny, etc.
The "Men are the victim, and that's why we hate women" wrapped up in how they're blameless for embracing Peterson / Tate etc.
At least to me, it feels like there's an underlying threat underneath all this rhetoric.
That if they don't get treated with "respect" they're going to get even more right wing.
So they'll keep getting right wing, and then what?
People aren't ready for this one
Look at the leftist male "role models" online and most of them are one strongly worded critique away from flipping alt right
This is just being deliberately obtuse. Do you say the same thing about systemic racism? Systemic racism doesn't actually exist because black people *can* have power!