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ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,108
Somy doesn't exactly have a great track record with movies in recent times, them taking control of Paramount would be incredibly worrying for me.
I'm also afraid Star Trek would come out of this for the worse.
 

Chaos Legion

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 30, 2017
16,935
Paramount is already one of the largest media conglomerates in the industry. (Before rebranding to the name of their famous film studio, they were known as ViacomCBS, after all.) Sony Pictures is also part of one of the world's largest media companies. I'm not sure I buy the idea that either of them are getting pushed out and need to "scale up." They're not, like, AMC Networks, or even Lionsgate, where that actually might be a valid concern. (And if either of them did want to scale up, they could always buy one of these smaller players, just like they could have picked up MGM when it was up for sale a few years ago.)
ViacomCBS remerged because of a need to scale up, and are still subscale in comparison with their closest media peers, let alone the internet giants that have entered the media space.
I don't know how you can look at Paramount's current dire situation and not see that they are unable to go it alone. The Company is valued lower than either Viacom or CBS, prior to the merger. Its debt rating has been cut to junk. It is going to struggle to maintain its investment in content whilst servicing its debt load. Its legacy business is facing the macro headwinds plaguing the linear television ecosystem, and Paramount is significantly more exposed to the effects of a deteriorating linear ecosystem than peers. Not to mention, unlike Disney, NBCUniversal, MGM, Sony Pictures, Paramount lacks a parent Company with a diverse portfolio of businesses to support the Company.
 

lunarworks

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,219
Toronto
Paramount at this point -

a) goes bust, so there are only four major studios.
b) gets bought by a venture capitalist asset stripper, so there are only four major studios.
c) gets bought by Apple, who sell it in five years time to a, b or d as they have no idea what to do with it.
d) gets bought by another major studio.

Pick one.
Apple wouldn't buy them if they didn't have a thorough plan for it. But they're not going to buy Paramount, it's not their MO.
 

SilverX

Member
Jan 21, 2018
13,055
ViacomCBS remerged because of a need to scale up, and are still subscale in comparison with their closest media peers, let alone the internet giants that have entered the media space.
I don't know how you can look at Paramount's current dire situation and not see that they are unable to go it alone. The Company is valued lower than either Viacom or CBS, prior to the merger. Its debt rating has been cut to junk. It is going to struggle to maintain its investment in content whilst servicing its debt load. Its legacy business is facing the macro headwinds plaguing the linear television ecosystem, and Paramount is significantly more exposed to the effects of a deteriorating linear ecosystem than peers. Not to mention, unlike Disney, NBCUniversal, MGM, Sony Pictures, Paramount lacks a parent Company with a diverse portfolio of businesses to support the Company.

Yup, his take was baffling when even combined they would just be making a case to exist in the space against still significantly larger titans in the industry. And they only plan to become larger until legally they are told they can no longer.
 

Mindwipe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,240
London
Somy doesn't exactly have a great track record with movies in recent times, them taking control of Paramount would be incredibly worrying for me.
I'm also afraid Star Trek would come out of this for the worse.

Sony's TV arm has made a bunch of the most critically acclaimed TV shows for the past decade. Star Trek would be hunky dory.
 

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,108
Sony's TV arm has made a bunch of the most critically acclaimed TV shows for the past decade. Star Trek would be hunky dory.
Someone mentioned that Star Trek is owned by CBS and Sony can't legally own CBS. So Trek shows could potentially get the axe and movies... well Sony Trek movies sounds terrifying.
 

davepoobond

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,678
www.squackle.com
Someone mentioned that Star Trek is owned by CBS and Sony can't legally own CBS. So Trek shows could potentially get the axe and movies... well Sony Trek movies sounds terrifying.

They would have to just divest from CBS or give majority ownership to Apollo or something like that probably. But they could still transfer all the properties back to Paramount proper where it originated
 

Mindwipe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,240
London
Someone mentioned that Star Trek is owned by CBS and Sony can't legally own CBS. So Trek shows could potentially get the axe and movies... well Sony Trek movies sounds terrifying.

Star Trek TV is owned by CBS studios, not the CBS network. Sony would definitely keep CBS studios, in exactly the same way as Disney was not allowed to own the Fox network and left it with News Corp, but kept Fox Studios to own Family Guy/The Simpsons etc.

Sony would (on paper, as noted there are ways around it if they really wanted to) not be allowed to own the CBS Network, but doesn't involve any ownership of Star Trek whatsoever.
 

crimsonECHIDNA

â–˛ Legend â–˛
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,521
Florida
Got my doubts this goes through though the more I think about it. Apollo made a previous bid that fell through, so them joining up with Sony is more of a mulligan.

Also isn't Paramount already close to closing in on a deal to be acquired by Skydance?
 

SilverX

Member
Jan 21, 2018
13,055
Someone mentioned that Star Trek is owned by CBS and Sony can't legally own CBS. So Trek shows could potentially get the axe and movies... well Sony Trek movies sounds terrifying.

I mean, did Disney specific teams start making Fox property films? The point of this would be for Paramount Pictures to still exist alongside Columbia Pictures, not for Sony to overburden their current studios with more IPs to be assigned to.
 

Mindwipe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,240
London
Got my doubts this goes through though the more I think about it. Apollo made a previous bid that fell through, so them joining up with Sony is more of a mulligan.

Also isn't Paramount already close to closing in on a deal to be acquired by Skydance?

Skydance and Paramount entered a month of exclusive negotiation but that is about to end without a deal. It seems unlikely that Skydance can raise the capital for a cash deal and Sherri is not interested in any kind of stock payment or equity split, just the money.

Sony and Apollo could definitely pay in cash, which is why this deal might be quite attractive.
 

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,108
They would have to just divest from CBS or give majority ownership to Apollo or something like that probably. But they could still transfer all the properties back to Paramount proper where it originated

Star Trek TV is owned by CBS studios, not the CBS network. Sony would definitely keep CBS studios, in exactly the same way as Disney was not allowed to own the Fox network and left it with News Corp, but kept Fox Studios to own Family Guy/The Simpsons etc.

Sony would (on paper, as noted there are ways around it if they really wanted to) not be allowed to own the CBS Network, but doesn't involve any ownership of Star Trek whatsoever.
Fair enough.
I mean, did Disney specific teams start making Fox property films? The point of this would be for Paramount Pictures to still exist alongside Columbia Pictures, not for Sony to overburden their current studios with more IPs to be assigned to.
I'm talking Sony's leadership making bad decisions, something they're infamous for regarding movies.
 

crimsonECHIDNA

â–˛ Legend â–˛
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,521
Florida
Skydance and Paramount entered a month of exclusive negotiation but that is about to end without a deal. It seems unlikely that Skydance can raise the capital for a cash deal and Sherri is not interested in any kind of stock payment or equity split, just the money.

Sony and Apollo could definitely pay in cash, which is why this deal might be quite attractive.

Oh was that it? Well damn that changes things then.
 

Agent Unknown

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,661
Obviously not a fan of mergers but I'd much rather it be Sony buying Paramount instead of WB/Discovery/Zaslov (which was rumored a few months ago).
 

SilverX

Member
Jan 21, 2018
13,055
I'm talking Sony's leadership making bad decisions.

I really can't imagine higher-ups at Sony forcing themselves into Star Trek or anything Paramount unless it is losing money and they need to get involved. Paramount is still largely going to be responsible for everything in their division probably with more access to tech and resources in this scenario.

I see collaborative efforts like maybe a Star Trek show made by Sony's TV division (where they might see something there) or Sony Animation involved with or doing a film for a Nickelodeon property as rare occurrences really.
 

davepoobond

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,678
www.squackle.com
I really can't imagine higher-ups at Sony forcing themselves into Star Trek or anything Paramount unless it is losing money and they need to get involved. Paramount is still largely going to be responsible for everything in their division probably with more access to tech and resources in this scenario.

I see collaborative efforts like maybe a Star Trek show made by Sony's TV division (where they might see something there) or Sony Animation involved with or doing a film for a Nickelodeon property as rare occurrences really.

yeah im not sure how Sony operates intrinsically, but they seem to have each label doing stuff independently from each other.

Like, Sony Classics has its own throughput vs Columbia/Tri-Star vs Sony Animation vs Sony TV. It seems pretty normal as far as Hollywood studios are concerned from what I see. Paramount would likely be like how 20th Century is operating parallel to Disney Animation/Miramax/Pixar/etc


i heard on the news today something about a possibility in this scenario that CBS being "licensed" out to a non-foreign company like Apollo so they would be operating/owning it 100% essentially in that scenario. Instead of just selling it off outright. So there's still probably a way for Sony to be involved with CBS at some level, it just can't own or run it, really.
 

Chaos Legion

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 30, 2017
16,935
With the acquisition, wouldn't Sony shoot up to be one of the largest Media Companies? Paramount holds a lot of content as does Sony.
Assuming the merged Sony Pictures and Paramount entity includes CBS, they'd still be behind Disney, NBCUniversal, and Warners. Without CBS, SPE/Paramount would be much smaller.
 

Tobor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
28,613
Richmond, VA
Skydance and Paramount entered a month of exclusive negotiation but that is about to end without a deal. It seems unlikely that Skydance can raise the capital for a cash deal and Sherri is not interested in any kind of stock payment or equity split, just the money.

Sony and Apollo could definitely pay in cash, which is why this deal might be quite attractive.

Sherri had a better offer from Apollo as is and decided to enter the negotiation period with Skydance anyway.

Maybe Sony being involved improves the offer or satisfies whatever issues she had with Apollo? Who knows.
 
Oct 25, 2017
32,409
Atlanta GA
Somy doesn't exactly have a great track record with movies in recent times, them taking control of Paramount would be incredibly worrying for me.
I'm also afraid Star Trek would come out of this for the worse.

what track record does Paramount have with Star Trek movies lately?

Sony Pictures Television produces some of the most critically renowned and commercially successful TV series around.
 

Pancracio17

â–˛ Legend â–˛
Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
18,857
Paramount at this point -

a) goes bust, so there are only four major studios.
b) gets bought by a venture capitalist asset stripper, so there are only four major studios.
c) gets bought by Apple, who sell it in five years time to a, b or d as they have no idea what to do with it.
d) gets bought by another major studio.

Pick one.
Split up the other major studios so paramount in its current state can compete?
 

Pancracio17

â–˛ Legend â–˛
Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
18,857
I hate how IP centric movies and TV have become. The value they bring is vastly overrated imo. Its a good team with good direction that produces a hit, not just doing whatever in whatever universe.
 

TheRealTalker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,536
www.thewrap.com

Paramount Deal With Skydance Won't Close in 30 Days

A deal to merge Paramount Global and David Ellison's Skydance Media is unlikely to conclude by May 3, the end of a 30-day exclusivity window.
A deal to merge Paramount Global and David Ellison's Skydance Media is unlikely to conclude by May 3 — the end of a 30-day exclusivity window — but is moving forward despite pressure from shareholders eager to consider other bids, TheWrap has learned.

According to an individual with knowledge of the negotiations, Skydance's due diligence on Paramount began this week and will not be complete within two weeks. The individual said the process to hammer out details could take up to 60 days, and in that case the window of exclusivity could be extended.

The deal, which would be backed by fresh capital from a consortium of investors including Oracle cofounder Larry Ellison, RedBird Capital Partners and KKR, would see Skydance acquire control of the company through Shari Redstone's National Amusements, which currently owns 77.3% of Paramount Global's Class A (voting) common stock and 5.2% of its Class B common stock.

But shareholders have threatened to sue Paramount if Redstone fails to consider a competing bid from private equity giant Apollo.

The individual described the deal as a recapitalization of Paramount, in which the media conglomerate would be able to continue as a public company with the goal of eventually trading between $30 to $40 per share.
The Wall Street Journal has previously reported that Redstone's National Amusements could receive over $2 billion in cash from the Skydance deal, some of which would be rolled over, according to the individual. Skydance would then be acquired by Paramount in an all-stock deal valued at around $5 billion.

The Ellisons would bring in technological and creative expertise from Skydance's own existing management team, as well as Jeff Shell, who joined RedBird following his ouster as NBCUniversal CEO.

In addition to Skydance, Apollo has made a $26 billion all-cash offer for Paramount, though the media conglomerate has reportedly rebuffed the deal due to concerns around financing for the bid.

Meanwhile, Allen Media Group founder Byron Allen placed a $30 billion bid including debt for the company, though it's unclear how that deal would be financed, and Paramount Global CEO Bob Bakish met with Warner Bros. Discovery CEO David Zaslav in December about a potential merger, though those talks have since halted.

Any deal for Paramount would have to be approved by Paramount Global's special committee of independent directors. Ellison would also have to sell the deal to Paramount's minority shareholders, including notable investors like Mario Gabelli and Ariel Investments' John Rogers Jr., who have emphasized they'd consider litigation if a deal does not fairly benefit their clients.
 

davepoobond

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,678
www.squackle.com
I mean, it isnt. But its not like were going in the direction where that wouldnt eventually happen. On more major merger after this and its almost a monopoly.

only if Disney merges with another would it be a monopoly. It's an oligopoly now and would still be after one or two mergers.

We are not really describing Verizon/ATT/T-mobile situation as a monopoly are we?

There is still a lot of competition from Apple/Amazon/Google for these Hollywood companies to consider as more and more industries intersect and become part of the same whole
 

Pancracio17

â–˛ Legend â–˛
Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
18,857
only if Disney merges with another would it be a monopoly. It's an oligopoly now and would still be after one or two mergers.

We are not really describing Verizon/ATT/T-mobile situation as a monopoly are we?

There is still a lot of competition from Apple/Amazon/Google for these Hollywood companies to consider as more and more industries intersect and become part of the same whole
Apple, Google and Amazon should be split up too, but yeah good point. Oligopoly is almost just as bad, but not quite.
 

ContractHolder

Jack of All Streams
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,358
Apple, Google and Amazon should be split up too, but yeah good point. Oligopoly is almost just as bad, but not quite.

Putting aside those three and just saying split the studios to make more competition.
1) That's still not going to solve the actual problem of Paramount having too much debt and low credit score and being unable to sustain itself without changing in the current environment. It wasn't going to help MGM survive either.
2) Even putting aside splitting Disney and Fox, and Warners and Discovery (although Discovery wouldn't do much film studio wise), further splits are going to also have consequences you don't realize. From how jobs are impacted to actual production because the smaller studios aren't going to be able to magically do what they were with more resources.
3) While there's a discussion to be had on the impact of the three companies you mentioned in this post and if there's grounds for antitrust, you really do need a good reason for just splitting up more than one company legally other than "x isn't competing as well, we need you to get smaller so suddenly x does better". Especially when we're not talking about an industry that's critical to day to day life like food, energy, communication, transportation, medical, ect.
 

Pancracio17

â–˛ Legend â–˛
Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
18,857
Putting aside those three and just saying split the studios to make more competition.
1) That's still not going to solve the actual problem of Paramount having too much debt and low credit score and being unable to sustain itself without changing in the current environment. It wasn't going to help MGM survive either.
2) Even putting aside splitting Disney and Fox, and Warners and Discovery (although Discovery wouldn't do much film studio wise), further splits are going to also have consequences you don't realize. From how jobs are impacted to actual production because the smaller studios aren't going to be able to magically do what they were with more resources.
3) While there's a discussion to be had on the impact of the three companies you mentioned in this post and if there's grounds for antitrust, you really do need a good reason for just splitting up more than one company legally other than "x isn't competing as well, we need you to get smaller so suddenly x does better". Especially when we're not talking about an industry that's critical to day to day life like food, energy, communication, transportation, medical, ect.
Wouldnt Paramounts rivals being much smaller affect their credit score? The projections for successes would be more positive, so theyre more likely to actually get loans. Unsustainability and not being able to do big productions tie into this too I think. Obviously they cant sustain themselves without changing, their loss leader rivals are huge and they have to compete.

The rest of your post is pretty valid.
 

SilverX

Member
Jan 21, 2018
13,055
yeah im not sure how Sony operates intrinsically, but they seem to have each label doing stuff independently from each other.

Like, Sony Classics has its own throughput vs Columbia/Tri-Star vs Sony Animation vs Sony TV. It seems pretty normal as far as Hollywood studios are concerned from what I see. Paramount would likely be like how 20th Century is operating parallel to Disney Animation/Miramax/Pixar/etc


i heard on the news today something about a possibility in this scenario that CBS being "licensed" out to a non-foreign company like Apollo so they would be operating/owning it 100% essentially in that scenario. Instead of just selling it off outright. So there's still probably a way for Sony to be involved with CBS at some level, it just can't own or run it, really.

Yeah that is what I'm expecting if this goes though. They are not going to do any shake-up or pull a "you are under new management" kind of move on Paramount since they want to have the production of both the Sony and Paramount sides firing on all cylinders in terms of IPs being used and their yearly line-ups for film and television. It does create unique opportunities that will exist of course, but they are largely going to let them continue as they are which is probably what Paramount wants from every potential buyer
 

davepoobond

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,678
www.squackle.com
Yeah that is what I'm expecting if this goes though. They are not going to do any shake-up or pull a "you are under new management" kind of move on Paramount since they want to have the production of both the Sony and Paramount sides firing on all cylinders in terms of IPs being used and their yearly line-ups for film and television. It does create unique opportunities that will exist of course, but they are largely going to let them continue as they are which is probably what Paramount wants from every potential buyer

yeah -- i think also it benefits Paramount+ because they can pull from the Sony library "easier" than external companies, especially since Sony isn't operating their own streaming service as of now other than Crunchyroll. It would be a big boon to Paramount+ content wise (if they aren't already merging that service with something else like has been rumored)
 

Cinnamon

Member
Jan 18, 2023
295
Sounds like Sherri still wants the Ellison deal.

Random thought.

If Paramount doesn't accept Sony's deal, I wonder if Sony might be interested in buying Warner Bros Discovery? Unless Zaslav can turn things around, it's likely that someone will buy Warner Bros Discovery down the road.

From a video game perspective:
PlayStation would gain exclusive rights to video games based on DC Comics (Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, etc)

From a streaming service perspective:
Sony owns tv shows like "Seinfeld", "Breaking Bad", "Better Call Saul", and "Community".
Warner Bros owns "Friends", "The Sopranos", "The Wire", "Gilmore Girls", and "Game of Thrones".
Imagine all of those shows being exclusive on Max.

I bring this up because it's only a matter of time until major companies start bidding on Warner Bros Discovery.
 
Last edited:

BrickArts295

GOTY Tracking Thread Master
Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,814
Random thought.

If Paramount doesn't accept Sony's deal, I wonder if Sony might be interested in buying Warner Bros Discovery? Unless Zaslav can turn things around, it's likely that someone will buy Warner Bros Discovery down the road.

From a video game perspective:
PlayStation would gain exclusive rights to video games based on DC Comics (Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, etc)

From a streaming service perspective:
Sony owns tv shows like "Seinfeld", "Breaking Bad", "Better Call Saul", and "Community".
Warner Bros owns "Friends", "The Sopranos", "The Wire", "Friends", "Gilmore Girls", and "Game of Thrones".
Imagine all of those shows being exclusive on Max.

I bring this up because it's only a matter of time until major companies start bidding on Warner Bros Discovery.
I'm sure they are in contention, but I believe they might find themselves in a bidding war with the likes of Comcast.