I mean, really, are we calling 'having a main plot' redundant now? If it's referring to specific plots: How about offering a non-redundant main plot then? Sorry, but it feels like there's a lot of non-sensical handwaving away going on to defend Octopath's lack of a greater plot.
I've read, watched and played countless great, nice, and/or interesting stories that all have a main plot. And side plots, too. If some people like having no overarching story, that's fine. But acting as if having one is a negative is just warping reality. Imagine the next Persona-game having no character interaction and common goal - only singular character-dungeons, fighting next to mute party members. :/
Imo marketing oversold this game. "8 stories, 8 characters" isn't worth special mention when it removes the basic expectation of a main plot. And let's not pretend those 8 stories are writing masterpieces. I'd be shocked if the 5 stories I played took any meaningful detour. Finding a missing book, doing a ritual, bringing back some jewels ... it's bog standard 90s jrpg tropes.
They could have written a nonlinear narrative where your decisions matter to the overall narrative structure; branching paths if you will, but I suppose that was too ambitious with a relatively small budget. Tempering my expectations now.I was simply responding to the idea that there's no overarching plot whatsoever. Personally I think that the later chapters in most character's stories will see those characters interacting with that 'main' plot, and thus giving them a reason why they'd want to fight the big bad or whatever the game has. If that's not for you and you expected this to become a linear RPG after the first few chapters then I don't know why the current previews have suddenly made it clear, the marketing focused a lot on "8 different stories" from the very start.
50 hours of anything, even a long rpg with side quests and no overarching plot is a long time.
Okay, dude. Keep justifying an obviously shitty decision because it's "different" and we're just blind because other developers know how basic storytelling works.Oh, I'm sorry for having an issue with your goddamn opinion that whoever allowed to make them the game they wanted is a blathering idiot.
And basically no one here other than a few reviewers have played the game here so there is no majority opinion on the game at the moment other than "the game's I played did it this way so why isn't this one doing it the same way" - you included. It's a mistake because it's not a "JRPG staple". Okay.
I'm not sure you've spoken to some of the people in this thread.No one in good mind would want to artistically stop interpersonal character development.
I mean, that's ambitious even for games with really high budgets.They could have written a nonlinear narrative where your decisions matter to the overall narrative structure, but I suppose that was too ambitious with a relatively small budget. Tempering my expectations now.
Regardless of the reason for it, it is still an artistic decision. No one has to defend that it's an artistic decision, it just is one. That said, it can still be properly criticized just like all artistic decisions are.I'm not sure you can really defend that not having meaningful character interactions is an artistic decision. If they don't interact much, is because they could not afford to spend more time developing interactions for all the permutations of party members you can have, since you have total freedom as to who you start with and meet up. No one in good mind would want to artistically stop interpersonal character development.
However, I think 20 hours is just a third of the expected length of the game, and I fully expect a narrative that has them battle together and hopefully those interactions will show up, since they don't have to account for all the variations. I remain excited and hoping to see more.
Yes for me it does feel like playing side quests that what makes it really bad , i mean cmon playing other character story and they treat them as they dont exist ? Wtf.If the stories are all without connection, why not ... make 8 games then? Sell them as episodes for 8-10 dollar each.
Or put differently: what's the difference between these 8 stories and 8 quests in Skyrim? Aside from the latter featuring the same avatar, Skyrim also tells many unique stories. That's why the marketing was misleading imo: Why make such a BIG deal of the '8 stories!' if it doesn't amount to anything meaningful? That's why interaction between party members would have been expected, as it'd have given a greater meaning to all individual stories. Now it rather feels like playing 8 sidequests.
Okay, dude. Keep justifying an obviously shitty decision because it's "different" and we're just blind because other developers know how basic storytelling works.
I'm not sure you can really defend that not having meaningful character interactions is an artistic decision. If they don't interact much, is because they could not afford to spend more time developing interactions for all the permutations of party members you can have, since you have total freedom as to who you start with and meet up. No one in good mind would want to artistically stop interpersonal character development.
However, I think 20 hours is just a third of the expected length of the game, and I fully expect a narrative that has them battle together and hopefully those interactions will show up, since they don't have to account for all the variations. I remain excited and hoping to see more.
lol, just wait for the review thread. It's a divisive niche game that just so happens toalso be the Switch's biggest exclusive in a while; things are going to get heated.
The surprising thing is that ALL the previews are positive, some of them glowing.
I'm obviously still buying this game, but it is a massive misstep to not connect the stories into a larger, overarching narrative.
Any focus poll or consultant who wasn't a blathering idiot could have told them this from day one, but hey, it's their game, I guess.
Yes, believe it or not, having live humans playtest your game and give feedback is an invaluable tool for game designers.
Source: me, I'm a game designer.
Yeah, that's very true. Even games like Breath of the Wild dodged it by not making the four divine beasts more relevant than the final boss's HP bar.I mean, that's ambitious even for games with really high budgets.
I'm not sure you can really defend that not having meaningful character interactions is an artistic decision. If they don't interact much, is because they could not afford to spend more time developing interactions for all the permutations of party members you can have, since you have total freedom as to who you start with and meet up. No one in good mind would want to artistically stop interpersonal character development.
However, I think 20 hours is just a third of the expected length of the game, and I fully expect a narrative that has them battle together and hopefully those interactions will show up, since they don't have to account for all the variations. I remain excited and hoping to see more.
I've got no quarrel with you, man, but you really ought to learn a bit more about game development. I don't know of a single well-received game in history that didn't use extensive playtesting.Yes, thats the way to make another boring mainstream RPG or a boring game in general.
Game Designer that have no vision and only wants to appeal to the mainstream should probably let playtesters tell them whats "wrong" with their game.
Playtester will only tell you whats offside of the norm. Probably a good way to make blockbusters, but obviously the wrong way to make an outstanding game that really impress people.
lol, just wait for the review thread. It's a divisive niche game that just so happens toalso be the Switch's biggest exclusive in a while; things are going to get heated.
Y'all are missing the point, though. I wasn't yelling at Octopath specifically for not redesigning their narrative based on playtesting, I was making the point that literally anyone who has had a freshman intro level class in creative writing would realize this would be very unsatisfying in a lot of ways. It's a poor writing decision and it's going to hurt the game. Even if you argue it's just "expectations"...well, read about Chekhov's gun.
Before the Echo, There Came an Echo, a few unannounced/uncredited projects. My name is Jason Wishnov, head of Iridium Studios. Feel free to reach me at [email protected].Sorry but you sell your opinion here as a law. No, an overarching story line is not needed, obviously.
And constantly insulting the developers of Octopath because "you now it better" because you had visited a creative writing class sounds... not very creative it sounds infantil and honestly not like you are a real developer at all. More like a nerd that pretends to know something. What games are you responsible for?
I get angry whenever I read that, fucking Xenoblade 2 man.What Im most excited about is the different field skills and character combinations. The game willl play pretty different with different team configurations.
I think ill do at least 2 play troughs and check out 3 or 4 stories each playtrough.
Sorry but you sell your opinion here as a law. No, an overarching story line is not needed, obviously.
And constantly insulting the developers of Octopath because "you now it better" because you had visited a creative writing class sounds... not very creative it sounds infantil and honestly not like you are a real developer at all. More like a nerd that pretends to know something. What games are you responsible for?
Yep.Just to be clear, as I've said before, what's most offputting about Octopath isn't the lack of an overarching plot, it's the fact that each story pretends that none of the other characters exist. Every time you do a new chapter for any given character, you'll only see that character in all the cut-scenes -- nobody else will appear or talk. (The "banter" scenes are short, optional, and take place outside of the main story.)
Considering this game is about eight people teaming up to travel the world (why? it's not clear), this is really fucking weird and unsettling. I understand why the designers did it -- there are too many possible party permutations, and you could even just be playing as that one character -- but that doesn't make it any less bizarre.
Despite this, to repeat again because few people here seem to be listening when I say this, I am still very much liking the game.
I was waiting for this since he asked for "what games did you make lol" :DBefore the Echo, There Came an Echo, a few unannounced/uncredited projects. My name is Jason Wishnov, head of Iridium Studios. Feel free to reach me at [email protected].
I'm sorry that the sentence "primary characters not interacting in any meaningful way is bad" is a divisive statement. Apparently I need to study more.
Thing is, some party pickups from previously played characters already have been explained as being as story-driven as "Do you want XY to join? yes/no" without any actual plot- or character-driven interaction coming up between the two. If you just "collect" 6 or so other party members that each have their individual, interesting stories, but absolutely none to team up, interact or work together, that overarching plot might fall apart pretty quickly, if it's just "And now defeat the big bad".I still don't understand why people are thinking there won't be an overarching plot. It'll be the last act of the game and will require you to have beaten all 8 character's stories, of course people haven't reached it yet. There's already hints that it's in there and there's no way everything is completely separate.
Of course te party interactions will be extremely sparse until then, and probably won't be satisfactory if that's what you want, so don't buy the game if that's you.
I don't know what's more embarassing: the people who haven't played the game and say that it will be the next great JRPG masterpiece or the people who haven't play the game and is critizicing the story structure and developers decisions.
In 2-3 weeks we will be able to make a sound judgement and opinion, now we can only especulate and critizice elements from the demo.
We should relax until then.
Oh man, I dont know how I mised this being a Switch exclusive. Wtf.
Is there any plan to bring it to PC?
I think the same, a last big chapter will be unlocked when you finish all the 8 stories, but I won't be that surprised if this is not a thing.I still don't understand why people are thinking there won't be an overarching plot. It'll be the last act of the game and will require you to have beaten all 8 character's stories, of course people haven't reached it yet. There's already hints that it's in there and there's no way everything is completely separate.
Nintendo is distributing and translating the game on the west, so I don't think so.
Of course te party interactions will be extremely sparse until then, and probably won't be satisfactory if that's what you want, so don't buy the game if that's you.
I think the same, a last big chapter will be unlocked when you finish all the 8 stories, but I won't be that surprised if this is not a thing.
If the 8 stories are good, this will be a nice bonus.
Do we have FW sales ww and ltd numbers already?The problem is people don't want to spend 60-80 hours playing a game with no main plot, no character interactions to finally see it in the last 10 hours of the game.
Heck they don't even want to spend 20 hours without that stuff. They want it immediately, like as soon as your characters start joining each other, there should be meaningful reasons and discussions and plotlines for them to do so.
Have you seen sales of games like Mount and Blade?The problem is people don't want to spend 60-80 hours playing a game with no main plot, no character interactions to finally see it in the last 10 hours of the game.
Heck they don't even want to spend 20 hours without that stuff. They want it immediately, like as soon as your characters start joining each other, there should be meaningful reasons and discussions and plotlines for them to do so.
That's exactly it, I realized it'd be a relatively quirky kind of game from the start due to its SaGa influences and knew people were setting themselves for a huge disappointment, it's a shame.lol, just wait for the review thread. It's a divisive niche game that just so happens toalso be the Switch's biggest exclusive in a while; things are going to get heated.
What is there not to understand? I'm not saying people don't want it. But for some it might not be a priority. "Oh I get 8 separate stories? Fine." If you're playing the game specifically for party interaction or that's a huge part of the game for you, this might not do it for you. Keep in mind people play JRPGs and skip all the cutscenes, they have different things they like about games.This is what I don't understand. Why wouldn't you want that? Can you or anyone who argued like that explain this? What's the potential downside of party interaction? It cannot be the fear of bad writing, when you already enjoy the writing that's there.
I mean technically speaking they're not wrong, the majority of people who buy the game won't even play to completion lol
But it's not really anything like FF6. Unless there are big changes past the 20-30 hour mark, characters don't really interact and all their stories are separate. Plus, from what I played combat is not even close to as enjoyable as 6. Also no suplexing trains.Wow! Between this and the "spiritual successor to FFVI" talk, this is becoming one of my most hyped games ever.
This is going to be in the best Jrpg in the past 10 years.The discussion about this game seems really all over the place. I loved the first demo, never played the timed one. Then there was a thread comparing it to FFVI and everyone seemed super positive. Reading this thread is really crushing though.
Easy solution: play another game.The problem is people don't want to spend 60-80 hours playing a game with no main plot, no character interactions to finally see it in the last 10 hours of the game.
This is what I don't understand. Why wouldn't you want that? Can you or anyone who argued like that explain this? What's the potential downside of party interaction? It cannot be the fear of bad writing, when you already enjoy the writing that's there.