[OPEN SPOILERS] GAME OF THRONES S8 |FULL LEAK DISCUSSION| IT IS KNOWN

B-Dubs · May 13, 2019

Could also just be that Bran is the only living being without earthly desires. He doesn't desire empire or fealty, riches or love, he wants nothing because that part of him has been stripped away. He is just knowledge and history, all seeing and all knowing, but without the ego or desire.

If one of the major points of the series is that power corrupts, then Bran is the only incorruptible being. He can't be corrupted because he can't want anything. It's a fairly simplistic way to look at Bran as King, but it does fit with what we've seen so far.

Sweeney Swift · May 13, 2019

B-Dubs said:
Could also just be that Bran is the only living being without earthly desires. He doesn't desire empire or fealty, riches or love, he wants nothing because that part of him has been stripped away. He is just knowledge and history, all seeing and all knowing, but without the ego or desire.

If one of the major points of the series is that power corrupts, then Bran is the only incorruptible being. He can't be corrupted because he can't want anything. It's a fairly simplistic way to look at Bran as King, but it does fit with what we've seen so far.

It's The thing from the leaks I'm most curious to see the general reaction on when it airs tbh. Everything else seems like surefire "fuck this" or "lol hell yeah" from the usual suspects, but this one feels like a tossup in general between "...what" and "...ok sure why not". The latter of which was my reaction when I first read it on the leak

bye · May 13, 2019

I hope we get more Sansa and Brienne outside of a quick send-off scene.

PlanetSmasher · May 13, 2019

B-Dubs said:
Could also just be that Bran is the only living being without earthly desires. He doesn't desire empire or fealty, riches or love, he wants nothing because that part of him has been stripped away. He is just knowledge and history, all seeing and all knowing, but without the ego or desire.

If one of the major points of the series is that power corrupts, then Bran is the only incorruptible being. He can't be corrupted because he can't want anything. It's a fairly simplistic way to look at Bran as King, but it does fit with what we've seen so far.

The thing is that a character without desires and wants also can't rule because they're not a person. It's literally putting a book on the throne. Bran is not a person anymore, he's not a character, he's just an empty sack of flesh full of "information" with no ability to act on it in any meaningful regard.

If he becomes king I hope he's assassinated immediately, because this setting is pointless if everything was leading to a soulless robot being the only person who can "lead" it.

Kahoots · May 13, 2019

Monkey_D said:
Oh ok. Then even the book don't make sense.

Don't worry their endings won't be the same in book and show.

Manipular · May 13, 2019

InstigateAndInquire said:
]I hope it isn't revealed that Bran suddenly orchestrated Jon and Dany's falls so he could become king[/B]. Without Sam, Bran thought that Jon was Rhaegar's bastard. Not a legitimate claimant to the Throne. Him telling Jon of his parentage would not indicate Bran making a grand chess play against Daenerys. It would not make sense. Just let him be the best option because he's the wisest.

Maybe in the books he will cause this (on purpose or otherwise) but in the show it can't happen that way.

I snorted and thought how ridiculous this would be and that the writers would never sink THIS low, but I distinctly remember having the exact same reaction when I read the leak about Dany becoming DUH MAD QWEEN because of some damn bells, so...

B-Dubs · May 13, 2019

Sweeney Swift said:
It's The thing from the leaks I'm most curious to see the general reaction on when it airs tbh. Everything else seems like surefire "fuck this" or "lol hell yeah" from the usual suspects, but this one feels like a tossup in general between "...what" and "...ok sure why not". The latter of which was my reaction when I first read it on the leak

How it comes off is going to depend entirely on how they frame it.

PlanetSmasher said:
The thing is that a character without desires and wants also can't rule because they're not a person. It's literally putting a book on the throne. Bran is not a person anymore, he's not a character, he's just an empty sack of flesh full of "information" with no ability to act on it in any meaningful regard.

If he becomes king I hope he's assassinated immediately, because this setting is pointless if everything was leading to a soulless robot being the only person who can "lead" it.

I agree, I'm just trying to think how they might try and sell it. If they're smart the "council" will be the real rulers and Bran will just be a glorified maester, telling them if they're making the right choice or how what they decide will play out.

PlanetSmasher · May 13, 2019

B-Dubs said:
I agree, I'm just trying to think how they might try and sell it. If they're smart the "council" will be the real rulers and Bran will just be a glorified maester, telling them if they're making the right choice or how what they decide will play out.

The problem is that the "council" is a bunch of morons. None of them except Davos are fit to help anyone lead anything, and Davos is only of value to someone whose emotions can be appealed to. That's what he's good at - he's not a strategist or a warrior, he's a talker.

Meanwhile, Tyrion should not be rewarded for multiple seasons of constant failure by being on a king's council again, y'know?

B-Dubs · May 13, 2019

PlanetSmasher said:
The problem is that the "council" is a bunch of morons. None of them except Davos are fit to help anyone lead anything, and Davos is only of value to someone whose emotions can be appealed to. That's what he's good at - he's not a strategist or a warrior, he's a talker.

Meanwhile, Tyrion should not be rewarded for multiple seasons of constant failure by being on a king's council again, y'know?

He's never been much of a conqueror, he did pretty good with the Seven Kingdoms the first time though.

This whole thing does sound dumb as hell though. Only way they could save it for me is if they made the council elected positions of some kind.

EDIT: I legit thought this was going to end with the transition to some kind of democracy going into this season, now I'm like, "just let it end"

PlanetSmasher · May 13, 2019

B-Dubs said:
He's never been much of a conqueror, he did pretty good with the Seven Kingdoms the first time though.

This whole thing does sound dumb as hell though. Only way they could save it for me is if they made the council elected positions of some kind.

EDIT: I legit thought this was going to end with the transition to some kind of democracy going into this season, now I'm like, "just let it end"

That's what I thought was going to happen, too - an acknowledgement that the Seven Kingdoms are too diverse and too distinct to be ruled by one person, and some kind of council/parliamentary government was the only way to move forward without constantly falling back into war.

B-Dubs · May 13, 2019

PlanetSmasher said:
That's what I thought was going to happen, too - an acknowledgement that the Seven Kingdoms are too diverse and too distinct to be ruled by one person, and some kind of council/parliamentary government was the only way to move forward without constantly falling back into war.

Who knows, maybe the leaks weren't entirely accurate and that's what we'll actually get.

Riversands · May 13, 2019

Helio said:
What innocent people did she burn?

Those two in season 7, varys in season 8, and i believe there are several more. I believe in season 2 or 3 she said she would take what belonged to her with fire and blood

PlanetSmasher · May 14, 2019

Riversands said:
Those two in season 7, varys in season 8, and i believe there are several more. I believe in season 2 or 3 she said she would take what belonged to her with fire and blood

Those people weren't innocent. The Tarlys were traitors who repeatedly rebuked any offer at salvation and Varys was committing treason.

wisdom0wl · May 14, 2019

B-Dubs said:
Who knows, maybe the leaks weren't entirely accurate and that's what we'll actually get.

oh my sweet summer child

a dream of spring indeed

Lunar Wolf · May 14, 2019

Kahoots said:
Don't worry their endings won't be the same in book and show.

It will only be vastly different for secondary characters:

"I don't think Dan and Dave's ending is gonna be that different from my ending because of the conversations we did have," he said. "But on certain secondary characters there may be big differences."

darkwing · May 14, 2019

wisdom0wl said:
oh my sweet summer child

a dream of spring indeed

lol just imagine the confusion if they name the final episode as that

i still can't believe The Bells

PlanetSmasher · May 14, 2019

The Gunslinger said:
It will only be vastly different for secondary characters:

He also doesn't know, though. He talked to them and told them what his intentions were years ago, but it's not like they CARE about the story anymore. They could very easily spin off in their own direction and do their own shit.

Kahoots · May 14, 2019

The Gunslinger said:
It will only be vastly different for secondary characters:

No, Bran's not going to be king and Jon's not surviving to go off and rejoin the NW.

It's hard to write this shit without laughing.

Riversands · May 14, 2019

jviggy43 said:
She shouldnt feel guilty about anyone she killed prior to this.

Of course she shouldnt. She is a mad queen, you even admitted that i was right

PlanetSmasher said:
Those people weren't innocent. The Tarlys were traitors who repeatedly rebuked any offer at salvation and Varys was committing treason.

If you use that argument, we are all not innocent. But did they deserve death? Why didnt she just give it a thought for some time before executing them? You cannot answer that, so i think deep down she likes burning people. Im not surprised if things end up like in Kings Landing #PrayforKingsLanding

PlanetSmasher · May 14, 2019

Riversands said:
If you use that argument, everybody is not innocent. But did they deserve death? Why didnt she just give it a thought for some time before executing them? You cannot answer that, so i think deep down she likes burning people. Im not surprised if things end up like in Kings Landing #PrayforKingsLanding

She offered them multiple different options that could've saved their lives and they spat on all of them. Randyll Tarly wasn't going to change his mind.

Deleted member 22490 · May 14, 2019

Riversands said:
Those two in season 7, varys in season 8, and i believe there are several more. I believe in season 2 or 3 she said she would take what belonged to her with fire and blood

And she said it would be the blood of her enemies, not innocents. The Tarly's and Varys weren't innocent. They were traitors. Given the moral framework this world exists in what with the first episode Ned Stark beheading a deserter, Jon killing the traitors who killed him, and Robb executing the Karstarks. It's not out of the normal and perfectly in line with expected behaviors in the show. Dany offered to spare the Tarly's multiple times.

Shit, she cried over Jorah, the man who betrayed her.

Sinder · May 14, 2019

Kahoots said:
No, Bran's not going to be king and Jon's not surviving to go off and rejoin the NW.

It's hard to write this shit without laughing.

You're in denial. Relax.

Sargerus · May 14, 2019

Kahoots said:
No, Bran's not going to be king and Jon's not surviving to go off and rejoin the NW.

It's hard to write this shit without laughing.

LMAO at this stage of the game you are still denying the leaks?

darkwing · May 14, 2019

Helio said:
And she said it would be the blood of her enemies, not innocents. The Tarly's and Varys weren't innocent. They were traitors. Given the moral framework this world exists in what with the first episode Ned Stark beheading a deserter, Jon killing the traitors who killed him, and Robb executing the Karstarks. It's not out of the normal and perfectly in line with expected behaviors in the show. Dany offered to spare the Tarly's multiple times.

Shit, she cried over Jorah, the man who betrayed her.

didn't Jon killed a child too? they were traitors though, the world really frowns on that

LegalEagleMike · May 14, 2019

Kahoots said:
No, Bran's not going to be king and Jon's not surviving to go off and rejoin the NW.

It's hard to write this shit without laughing.

Those two will have very similar endings in the books as the show, id be willing to bet heavily on that, but we may never actually get the books to prove it.

Sinder · May 14, 2019

Sargerus said:
LMAO at this stage of the game you are still denying the leaks?

We're in the meltdown phase now. A lot of immature posts like that one are coming.

Kahoots · May 14, 2019

Sargerus said:
LMAO at this stage of the game you are still denying the leaks?

No, that what D&D have cooked up is GRRM's book ending.

Lunar Wolf · May 14, 2019

PlanetSmasher said:
The thing is that a character without desires and wants also can't rule because they're not a person. It's literally putting a book on the throne. Bran is not a person anymore, he's not a character, he's just an empty sack of flesh full of "information" with no ability to act on it in any meaningful regard.

If he becomes king I hope he's assassinated immediately, because this setting is pointless if everything was leading to a soulless robot being the only person who can "lead" it.

There's not going to be any sequels to ASOIAF. This is the ending. There won't be a setting past this in Westeros. You can head-canon whatever you want though.

You may not agree with it but without rendering the whole story meaningless, it'll be Bran that rebuilds Westeros. Hence him having the same name as Brandon the Builder.

The show is ultimately just an adaptation of the source material and GRRM's notes after all and that is what he has set up.

PQ:Finally, given the precedent of Brandon the Builder and Bran's intense intuitive connection with Winterfell, I think he'll also serve as the ReBuilder in the wake of the Second Battle for the Dawn. After all, the Children are there to teach him as they did his forebear.

Dany is the Mother of Dragons, Jon is the hidden prince with the secret heritage, but Bran sits at the center of the narrative, more than any other character. He was the first recurring POV, and I'd bet quite a bit that he's going to be the last.

I mean you can blame Benioff & Weiss for the execution but the concept is solid depending on how GRRM writes it.

Riversands · May 14, 2019

PlanetSmasher said:
She offered them multiple different options that could've saved their lives and they spat on all of them. Randyll Tarly wasn't going to change his mind.

Yes. But at that time her insanity was more balanced than her current situation is, thats why she was more acceptable to people's suggestion. She was more like 65% good, 35% insane. Even then her insanity was still there. If you realize the more her dragons die, the more she changes. Just like how cersei is (was)

Sinder · May 14, 2019

Kahoots said:
No, that what D&D have cooked up is GRRM's book ending.

Of course it's GRRM's ending. He told them what it is years ago. That's what they've used to reverse engineer the plot of S7 and 8.

Deleted member 22490 · May 14, 2019

Riversands said:
Yes. But at that time her insanity was more balanced than her current situation is, thats why she was more acceptable to people's suggestion. She was more like 65% good, 35% insane. Even then her insanity was still there. If you realize the more her dragons die, the more she changes. Just like how cersei is (was)

Oh shit, we're literally measuring insanity units now? Calm down, Silicon Knights. How did you come up with that specific level of insanity?

bye · May 14, 2019

things unclear from the leaks

- leaks still don't mention Toby Osmond's supposed Dorne ruler, who we know is in the season. Seems like he would be fit for the council, but it's odd he isn't mentioned.

- the Dragonpit trial scene has many ???s. Sansa is apparently there? though the only thing leaks say is she becomes Warden Of The North. Does Robyn show up like Friki says he does lol? Friki says there was an unknown new character there, so it could be the Dorne guy.

- Where does Drogon take Dany's body? All of the context around this is very odd

- of course there's the supposed final scene of the show with Jon/Tormund we only know about due to filming sleuths. Makes me wonder if theres other scenes we can see haven't showed up from filming leaks.

Hydrus · May 14, 2019

Anyone know what the ratings were for 4&5?

Lunar Wolf · May 14, 2019

PlanetSmasher said:
He also doesn't know, though. He talked to them and told them what his intentions were years ago, but it's not like they CARE about the story anymore. They could very easily spin off in their own direction and do their own shit.

Unless Benioff and Weiss lied to George, this is where it's ending.

Kahoots said:
No, Bran's not going to be king and Jon's not surviving to go off and rejoin the NW.

It's hard to write this shit without laughing.

Benioff and Weiss foreshadowed Bran on the throne back in season 1 when they thought GRRM was going to pump out the ending before the show finished.

I'm guessing you think the books are headed toward a Targaryen restoration or with Jon on the throne. But that's not where it's going to go apparently.

Sometimes things don't end how you like just accept it.

Riversands · May 14, 2019

Helio said:
And she said it would be the blood of her enemies, not innocents. The Tarly's and Varys weren't innocent. They were traitors. Given the moral framework this world exists in what with the first episode Ned Stark beheading a deserter, Jon killing the traitors who killed him, and Robb executing the Karstarks. It's not out of the normal and perfectly in line with expected behaviors in the show. Dany offered to spare the Tarly's multiple times.

Shit, she cried over Jorah, the man who betrayed her.

The notion of this argument is whether it makes sense for dany to be a mad queen. And so far your arguments have supported my notion.

"It would be the blood of her enemies", thats actually true depending on how you see it. Missandei's blood is spilled over king's landing, and that enough can make her see king's landing and the people inside as her enemies.

InstigateAndInquire · May 14, 2019

As bye said, the makeup of the council is kinda missing. Why not the Dornish prince, Yara, and Edmure Tully? In the book there will most likely be a Tyrell brother and a Vale lord on the council also.

They kinda painted themselves in a corner with the council thing by not introducing tertiary lords so you get nobodies like Sam, Davos, and Bronn on there.

Deleted member 1635 · May 14, 2019

Riversands said:
"It would be the blood of her enemies", thats actually true depending on how you see it. Missandei's blood is spilled over king's landing, and that enough can make her see king's landing and the people inside as her enemies.

That's just your headcanon, though, and can't be explained by anything in the show. Dany even talks about wanting to liberate King's Landing in the very same episode, hinting simply that she was fine with collateral damage if it meant removing a tyrant.

Deleted member 22490 · May 14, 2019

Riversands said:
The notion of this argument is whether it makes sense for dany to be a mad queen. And so far your arguments have supported my notion.

You said that she killed innocents and named people who were innocent. And then I went on to show that even with traitors, even if they betrayed her, she could still work with them.

Riversands said:
"It would be the blood of her enemies", thats actually true depending on how you see it. Missandei's blood is spilled over king's landing, and that enough can make her see king's landing and the people inside as her enemies.

No, that wouldn't be enough. It actually wasn't enough because she didn't decide to burn everyone until the bells rang. Up until then, she was keeping civilian casualties to a minimum.

Kahoots · May 14, 2019

Sinder said:
Of course it's GRRM's ending. He told them what it is years ago. That's what they've used to reverse engineer the plot of S7 and 8.

The Gunslinger said:
Unless Benioff and Weiss lied to George, this is where it's ending.

Benioff and Weiss foreshadowed Bran on the throne back in season 1 when they thought GRRM was going to pump out the ending before the show finished.

I'm guessing you think the books are headed toward a Targaryen restoration or with Jon on the throne. But that's not where it's going to go apparently.

Sometimes things don't end how you like just accept it.

Yeah no lol.

LegalEagleMike · May 14, 2019

InstigateAndInquire said:
As bye said, the makeup of the council is kinda missing. Why not the Dornish prince, Yara, and Edmure Tully? In the book there will most likely be a Tyrell brother and a Vale lord on the council also.

They kinda painted themselves in a corner with the council thing by not introducing tertiary lords so you get nobodies like Sam, Davos, and Bronn on there.

Sam would likely be legitimized again as head of house Tarly. But yeah its still hilarious that Bronn will be on the council. Doesnt really matter since the story ends anyway, makes sense to stack it with fan service for the tv show.

Deleted member 1635 · May 14, 2019

bye said:
things unclear from the leaks

- leaks still don't mention Toby Osmond's supposed Dorne ruler, who we know is in the season. Seems like he would be fit for the council, but it's odd he isn't mentioned.

That would be crazy for them to suddenly remember Dorne is a thing after 5 episodes of not even a single mention.

louisacommie · May 14, 2019

B-Dubs said:
Could also just be that Bran is the only living being without earthly desires. He doesn't desire empire or fealty, riches or love, he wants nothing because that part of him has been stripped away. He is just knowledge and history, all seeing and all knowing, but without the ego or desire.

If one of the major points of the series is that power corrupts, then Bran is the only incorruptible being. He can't be corrupted because he can't want anything. It's a fairly simplistic way to look at Bran as King, but it does fit with what we've seen so far.

Ofcourse we know this isn't true of Brynden Rivers

LegalEagleMike · May 14, 2019

Zefah said:
That would be crazy for them to suddenly remember Dorne is a thing after 5 episodes of not even a single mention.

They mentioned Dorne in episode 4. That the new prince has declared his support to Daenerys

Deleted member 1635 · May 14, 2019

LegalEagleMike said:
They mentioned Dorne in episode 4. That the new prince has declared his support to Daenerys

Oh, was it in that war planning scene? I must have missed it.

bye · May 14, 2019

InstigateAndInquire said:
As bye said, the makeup of the council is kinda missing. Why not the Dornish prince, Yara, and Edmure Tully? In the book there will most likely be a Tyrell brother and a Vale lord on the council also.

They kinda painted themselves in a corner with the council thing by not introducing tertiary lords so you get nobodies like Sam, Davos, and Bronn on there.

Well maybe Robyn ends up on it if Friki is correct about him being at the Pit. I'm entirely certain Toby's Dorne character will also end up on it if they go the council route.

So in the end the council will actually be filled with lords from all over the kingdoms

Reach = Bronn
Horne Hill = Sam
Vale = Robyn
Dorne = Toby's Osmond's character
The Rock = Tyrion

maybe Yara, Sansa, Gendry join in too

Iron Islands = Yara
The North = Sansa
Stormlands = Gendry

making Gendry legitimatized and introducing a new lord of Dorne makes me think they might be trying to establish a sort of democracy type council with one representative of each region. Literally why else is a new character showing up in the last episode of the series.

LegalEagleMike · May 14, 2019

Zefah said:
Oh, was it in that war planning scene? I must have missed it.

Yep, easy to miss lol.

E.T. · May 14, 2019

Is there a collection of reviews somewhere?

Neece · May 14, 2019

E.T. said:
Is there a collection of reviews somewhere?

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/game-of-thrones/s08/e05

E.T. · May 14, 2019

Thanks

Lunar Wolf · May 14, 2019

Sinder said:
Of course it's GRRM's ending. He told them what it is years ago. That's what they've used to reverse engineer the plot of S7 and 8.

bye said:
Well maybe Robyn ends up on it if Friki is correct about him being at the Pit. I'm entirely certain Toby's Dorne character will also end up on it if they go the council route.

So in the end the council will actually be filled with lords from all over the kingdoms

Reach = Bronn
Horne Hill = Sam
Vale = Robyn
Dorne = Toby's Osmond's character
The Rock = Tyrion

maybe Yara, Sansa, Gendry join in too

Iron Islands = Yara
The North = Sansa
Stormlands = Gendry

making Gendry legitimatized and introducing a new lord of Dorne makes me think they might be trying to establish a sort of democracy type council with one representative of each region. Literally why else is a new character showing up in the last episode of the series.

I believe this is where Bran is voted in as King of Westeros hence all of them being there in a Great Council.

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[OPEN SPOILERS] GAME OF THRONES S8 |FULL LEAK DISCUSSION| IT IS KNOWN