Opinion: The current run of Walt Disney Animation Studios films has surpassed the Disney Renaissance

[EdReedFan20]

I thought a lot of Disney's movies had D2V sequels? Heck I think Toy Story 2 was going to be home video at one point.

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I meant from Walt Disney Animation Studios themselves. The DTV sequels were produced by Disneytoon Studios, which was mainly created for that reason. Due to their budgets, the quality of those movies tended to be much worse. The studio was actually shut down back in June. The non-Pixar sequels would have been produced by Circle 7 Animation. It was launched in 2004 by Michael Eisner when it looked like Disney's deal with Pixar was not going to be renewed. Not long after, Eisner was ousted and replaced by Robert Iger, who quickly made a deal to acquire Pixar. Part of the acquisition was the shut down of Circle 7 and its Toy Story sequel, as well as having John Lasseter oversee all of Disney animation, leading to this current run. Though, I suppose it could be said his split responsibilities led to the "rough" patch Pixar found themselves in post-Toy Story 3. Though beginning with Inside Out, it seems they are mostly back.

 

[Soneji]

Don't get me wrong, I like Zootopia and Moana/Vaiana a lot and I appreciate the deeper themes of these films. However, those deeper and more complex themes are a limiting factor.

Zootopia being an allegory for racism and prejudice in modern America is great and could be a reason why it could possibly go down as a very important Disney film in America, but most of the rest of the world will not be able to resonate with that theme.

I guess maybe the problem isn't so much that the films are more complex, but that the themes and stories are more localized on American issues (or at least, American variants of issues, racism and prejudice is of course a global issue, but the type shown in Zootopia is very American). Compare that to, for instance, The Hunchback of the Notre Dame, which has themes that pretty much everybody around the world would be able to resonate with (bullying, perceived ugliness, racism/Xenophobia, etc.).

A modern (children's) film that I would argue does what Disney should try to do are the Paddington films. These are very much about immigration and acceptation of immigrants and the way they bring their theme is not limited to a certain culture. Sure, Paddington itself is super British, but the way it portrays immigration is immediately recognizable for everybody.

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The film resonated with a global audience, it's themes of racism, sexism and prejudice in general work on a grand scale beyond just America's history with racism.

Beyond that, you can not care/resonate with said themes on a general basis and still love the movie for it's characters, it's world, the mystery story. It is not reliant on it's message to be a great movie, unlike say Inside Out which force feeds it and revolves around it.

Movies evolve and people think that's a bad thing somehow.

 

[Sebalt]

Tarzan (fight me), Hercules, Mulan, Treasure Planet (fight me) and Kuzco are way better than what we are getting now, even if I like Moana, Zootopia and Tangled.

 

[jett]

Animation, and aesthetic wise, yeah.

When it comes to the songs though? Howard Ashman is the GOAT. Moana comes the closest but nothing is comparable to those songs in the 90s

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surejan.gif

 

[Deleted member 1589]

Aladdin, really?

hell, even Mulan has that beat when it comes to overall animation quality, let alone some of the recent animated films.

 

[Window]

It's not about "quality" but the how imaginative the surreal the visuals are which take advantage of the animation medium. This is something I give old Disney an edge over Pixar but is something new Disney has lost somewhat.

 

[Creation_Scapes]

Aladdin, really?

hell, even Mulan has that beat when it comes to overall animation quality, let alone some of the recent animated films.

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He was somewhat mistaken imho. It's not so much the animation that makes it so great, it's the art style that really makes it pop.

 

[Deleted member 1589]

He was somewhat mistaken imho. It's not so much the animation that makes it so great, it's the art style that really makes it shine.

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Im ok if he meant art style. That can be pretty subjective.

 

[Creation_Scapes]

Im ok if he meant art style. That can be pretty subjective.

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Yeah I'm just sorta giving him the benefit of the doubt, but I'm not sure if that's what he really meant.

 

[Shiloh]

A lot of people claiming cultural impact seem to have forgotten the two years of "Let it Go" we had. There's also the fact there's a very successful Frozen Broadway show going on currently. We're coming up on 5 years of Frozen being culturally relevant.

 

[Nintenleo]

The trilogy of Hercules-The Lion King-The Little Mermaid is almost unbeatable to me. Frozen + Tangled come close.

The fun thing though is that the best Disney movie of the 21st century is in the "supposed" Dark Age. Treasure Planet is a triumph of animation and characters, maybe the last 2D masterpiece.

 

[EvilRedEye]

It's difficult to make a direct comparison when they alternate between CGI equivalents of the traditional musical model and other films, which I guess you could call more successful versions of what they put out during the 2000s.

Ultimately there's not really much purpose in directly comparing something so subjective - there is time to watch all of them and it's good enough that the quality of the current era is roughly equivalent.

I also don't think there have been enough films in this new era to truly compare. It is arbitrary to define the original Renaissance by commercial success and then assign a different criteria for the current one. It absolutely starts at Tangled.

 

[mutantmagnet]

Zootopia is godlike folks. Best Disney movie ever.

Wreck it Ralph is a classic for me but I can understand why that movie won't have lasting appeal. But Zootopia? That will endure way more than any other Disney movie.

Gonna have to disagree. There's been some good stuff, but none are as good as Aladdin was.

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Then you aren't disagreeing. OP literally said Aladdin along with 3 other movies in the same time period are better than what came out recently but if you look at all the other lesser movies that came out with the Big 4 as a group they are inferior to the modern movies.

 

[wbloop]

The Lion King alone trumps the new age.

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Yup. And that although I freaking loved Wreck-it-Ralph and consider Zootopia to be one of the best animated movies of this decade. Beauty and the Beast and especially Lion King blow them out of the water.

 

[Yesterday]

The lack of good villains besides possibly mother Gothel really hold the new movies back. Every villain is revealed in the last quarter of the movie and it's always an obvious twist.

 

[Kongroo]

Controversial opinion: This era's movies are better because they aren't all musicals.

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Except most of them still are

 

[Deleted member 8593]

Both runs pale in comparison to the musical version of Lion King so it's kind of a pointless discussion.

 

[Masoyama]

If your dark age is a 4 year period between two decades of excellence, I posit we should consider 1989 ton present an extended gotten age with a small bump.

 

[Betty]

Disagree, they're good but the Renaissance is better.

 

[chezzymann]

A lot of people claiming cultural impact seem to have forgotten the two years of "Let it Go" we had. There's also the fact there's a very successful Frozen Broadway show going on currently. We're coming up on 5 years of Frozen being culturally relevant.

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Yup, frozen is just as culturally impactful as Aladdin and Lion King.

 

[BringBackSonics]

How did they break up how certain movies were in certain eras? Family Robinson felt like a dark era movie.

 

[CloudWolf]

A lot of people claiming cultural impact seem to have forgotten the two years of "Let it Go" we had. There's also the fact there's a very successful Frozen Broadway show going on currently. We're coming up on 5 years of Frozen being culturally relevant.

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I don't think anyone is disputing the success of Frozen, right? The thing is that in modern Disney it's just Frozen, 90's Disney had multiple of these huge hits that were around for years either through tv, sequels or musicals.

The Lion King, Aladdin, The Hunchback of the Notre Dame, Hercules, etc. all got (semi-) successful sequels, tv shows and more. The Lion King musical is the third longest running Broadway musical of all time and just started another international tour this year.

That's what I, at least, meant by these new films mostly disappearing from the cultural zeitgeist. While Frozen remains a huge success, there's as far as I know little to no lasting impact of Zootopia and Moana/Vaiana (and Big Hero 6, Princess and the Frog and Tangled). I could be wrong of course, but that's what I was alluding to.

 

[Silky]

Treasure Planet and Atlantis ruled ,

 

[Kill3r7]

The movies between 1989-1994 are on a whole different level. Frozen and Moana might be on the same level.

 

[lmx]

Hm, I don't agree.

I've only watched Frozen, Moana, and Zootopia -- the rest I've seen bits and clips of -- so I can't give a full opinion, but:

The current movies feel like standard Hollywood kid's fair, just done more competently. For example, Bolt: I thought that was a dreamworks movie. That's not a good thing. The three movies I've watched, Frozen Moana and Zootopia, are okay, but are rather lacking. They all have pacing and narrative issues, and thematically they're a bit messy. In particular, you can also see the seems of the movie in regards to their social messages, which makes all three of them feel a bit pop-culture and they're not going to age well.

The older movies, like the Lion King, were nice because they struck that 'timeless' tone that makes them watchable 30 years later. The Lion King in particular is a nice drama for kids; the newer movies seem like Saturday morning cartoons in comparison.

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Big hero 6 was basically a 90 minute Saturday morning cartoon with really good animation.

 

[Soneji]

I don't think anyone is disputing the success of Frozen, right? The thing is that in modern Disney it's just Frozen, 90's Disney had multiple of these huge hits that were around for years either through tv, sequels or musicals.

The Lion King, Aladdin, The Hunchback of the Notre Dame, Hercules, etc. all got (semi-) successful sequels, tv shows and more. The Lion King musical is the third longest running Broadway musical of all time and just started another international tour this year.

That's what I, at least, meant by these new films mostly disappearing from the cultural zeitgeist. While Frozen remains a huge success, there's as far as I know little to no lasting impact of Zootopia and Moana/Vaiana (and Big Hero 6, Princess and the Frog and Tangled). I could be wrong of course, but that's what I was alluding to.

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Tangled has a TV show, the days of direct to DVD sequels like what those 90s movies got are over. Frozen is getting a sequel, Wreck-it Ralph is getting sequel, Zootopia is likely getting a sequel, all theatrical releases. It's been two years since Zootopia/Moana came out and yet you're wanting to compare what those other movies got over decades.

The Lion King is epic and one of my personal favorites sure but it's super basic to the point that Pinocchio(the truest classic and perfect animated film), Zootopia, Lilo and Stitch and ENG all come out above it for me. They have more interesting and memorable characters/themes/settings.

 

[jett]

Aladdin, really?

hell, even Mulan has that beat when it comes to overall animation quality, let alone some of the recent animated films.

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What do you mean really? The character animation in the Friend Like Me sequence is outstanding.

 

[Aaron]

Maybe it's just because I'm more familiar with Greek mythology than the other stories Disney films are adapted from but Hercules feels like an especially egregious case of butchering the original story. I do like it but it feels very run of the mill.

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If you take Hercules as a remake of Rocky and Superman with anachronistic Grecian trappings over an adaptation of the actual mythos, it makes a lot more sense.

Animation, and aesthetic wise, yeah.

When it comes to the songs though? Howard Ashman is the GOAT. Moana comes the closest but nothing is comparable to those songs in the 90s

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Ashman is an underappreciated genius, sadly went way before his time. His lyrical prowess and wordplay is unmatched. Just look at the last part of Prince Ali:

With sixty elephants, llamas galore
With his bears and lions and brass band and more
With his forty fakirs, his cooks, his bakers
His birds that warble on key
Make way for Prince Ali

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I want to peek into the timeline where he got to finish Aladdin and possibly write Pocahontas and Hunchback as well, although Stephen Schwartz did an amazing job with the latter.

Hunchback of Notre Dame not having 100% ...

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It's a favorite of mine but I totally see why some people don't like it. The gargoyles, along with some other cartoony gags create a huge tonal problem for the movie. On the flip side, the 80% or so that is heavy and dark didn't really mesh with what people wanted from a Disney movie in the mid-90s. I feel like the movie would have been better received had it been released today, and the execs were more willing to loosen their collars and go big with the story.

 

[PontyfaxJr]

Emperor's New Groove and Lilo and Stitch should not be part of anything referred to as a dark age.

 

[Jadentheman]

Are we also including the new live action re-imaginings with this?

 

[Deleted member 1589]

What do you mean really? The character animation in the Friend Like Me sequence is outstanding.

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Overall animation quality mate.

I'm not criticizing Friend Like Me in any way, but when it comes to animation quality, Disney has far surpassed it years ago.

 

[TerminusFox]

This thread lol.

Bruh.

The Lion King is literally the quintessential example of lightning in a bottle when it comes to movies (the only movie I can think of that's even in striking distance is A New Hope).

There is no film released today that comes that combined talent, iconic voice overs, GOAT score and musicals, fantastic writing, jaw dropping animation, cultural impact, etc the list is endless.

 

[SHAQ]

Looking at those lists, I'm definitely disagreeing. If this was Pixar vs old Disney I'd agree.

 

[FreedomFrisbee]

Overall animation quality mate.

I'm not criticizing Friend Like Me in any way, but when it comes to animation quality, Disney has far surpassed it years ago.

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Define 'quality' here. Just because something is 3D doesn't make it a better quality animation. I'd, in fact, call most of the Disney studios 3D movies sub-par when it comes to animation compared to other studio's output. Why this thread isn't trying to compare Pixar to the Disney renaissance is beyond me.

Disney would probably be hard pressed to make something of the animation quality of their 2D hayday. They essentially mixed a broadway play with the best animation money could buy, resulting in an undeniable product. Things like Frozen come off as underbudget pop culture cash grabs. Which isn't just my own opinion, but one shared by Disney itself. Frozen was seen as a subpar product that couldn't possibly compare to Brave. The technology and animation skill on display in those movies are night and day and Disney made its bets accordingly. Brave's biggest mistake was not have a blonde singing a pop song.

 

[Deleted member 1086]

There's this pretty great quote by ViewtifulJC when someone argued that Moana was the best Disney film of all time that I think is sort of relevant here:

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The thing with this argument is it also applies to the 90s movies, Aladdin and Hercules being the two biggest offenders. Robin Williams Genie impersonating Johnny Carson or Arsenio Hall isn't timeless, neither are all the references that James Woods' Hades spouts off or the Air Hercs that one of the demons wears at one point. Even Lion King dabbled in it with some of it's comic relief from Timon and Pumbaa.

 

[Garlador]

It's surreal for me to know that my kids are going to look at the new Disney movies the way I look at the Renaissance.

 

[Skiptastic]

I'm 35, so I lived through the first Disney Renaissance. I saw Beauty and the Beast get nominated for Best Picture. I listened to the Aladdin soundtrack nonstop with my friend while playing GI Joe during down times of Sim City SNES (spent all of that loan money). So I'm right in that wheelhouse of people who would feel nostalgic about that era of movies.

Overall, I agree with the OP.

I start with Tangled (even though I love TPATF) and skip Winnie the Pooh (just like I would skip Rescuers Down Under, even though that is supposed to be really good). I've connected more and enjoyed the newer films more than I did with Little Mermaid, BATB, Aladdin, etc. I don't love the SONGS as much, necessarily, but as movies overall and my emotional connection to them, I think the new films are much better.

I will always sing a Renaissance era song more, but I will be much more likely to have a swell of emotion in the new ones.

Just my own personal experience.

 

[Deleted member 1589]

Define 'quality' here. Just because something is 3D doesn't make it a better quality animation. I'd, in fact, call most of the Disney studios 3D movies sub-par when it comes to animation compared to other studio's output. Why this thread isn't trying to compare Pixar to the Disney renaissance is beyond me.

Disney would probably be hard pressed to make something of the animation quality of their 2D hayday. They essentially mixed a broadway play with the best animation money could buy, resulting in an undeniable product. Things like Frozen come off as underbudget pop culture cash grabs. Which isn't just my own opinion, but one shared by Disney itself. Frozen was seen as a subpar product that couldn't possibly compare to Brave. The technology and animation skill on display in those movies are night and day and Disney made its bets accordingly. Brave's biggest mistake was not have a blonde singing a pop song.

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Oh that's easy. Stuff like in Aladdin for example where there's rarely more than 3 characters moving in one shot. Static backgrounds and camera work. Things that limited due to workforce, budget, time, technology, etc. Stuff that they have addressed in time.

Then again I'm not sure what you're talking about though. When I wrote quality of the animation, I meant animation, not the quality of the IP.

 

[Unclebenny]

Emperor's New Groove and Lilo and Stitch should not be part of anything referred to as a dark age.

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This is a correct opinion.

Both fantastic films, Emperor's New Groove especially, although Lilo and Stitch is probably actually better, if you want an opinion not biased by my nonsense.

Maybe a dark age for management but they still had some talent there at this point.

 

[Ramala]

I meant from Walt Disney Animation Studios themselves. The DTV sequels were produced by Disneytoon Studios, which was mainly created for that reason. Due to their budgets, the quality of those movies tended to be much worse. The studio was actually shut down back in June. The non-Pixar sequels would have been produced by Circle 7 Animation. It was launched in 2004 by Michael Eisner when it looked like Disney's deal with Pixar was not going to be renewed. Not long after, Eisner was ousted and replaced by Robert Iger, who quickly made a deal to acquire Pixar. Part of the acquisition was the shut down of Circle 7 and its Toy Story sequel, as well as having John Lasseter oversee all of Disney animation, leading to this current run. Though, I suppose it could be said his split responsibilities led to the "rough" patch Pixar found themselves in post-Toy Story 3. Though beginning with Inside Out, it seems they are mostly back.

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Damn. You know your stuff.

Also Inside Out was A+mazing.

 

[R0b1n]

Didn't know meet the robinsons was so polarizing, I remember loving it

 

[ncsoft]

Pixar's run from from 1999 to 2010 surpass that a long time ago
Toy Story 2 - Monsters Inc - Finding Nemo- The Incredibles - Cars - Ratatouille - Wall-e - Up - Toy Story 3

 

[Aaron]

Emperor's New Groove and Lilo and Stitch should not be part of anything referred to as a dark age.

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They're like the two bright spots of that stretch of time. You can tell there was a bit of an identity crisis going on there.

 

[Deleted member 1589]

Didn't know meet the robinsons was so polarizing, I remember loving it

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Yeah, I liked it. It wasn't memorable but it wasn't shit either.

 

[ncsoft]

This thread lol.

Bruh.

The Lion King is literally the quintessential example of lightning in a bottle when it comes to movies (the only movie I can think of that's even in striking distance is A new Hope).

There is no film released today that comes that combined talent, iconic voice overs, GOAT score and musicals, fantastic writing, jaw dropping animation, cultural impact, etc the list is endless.

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Titanic

 

[BasilZero]

I agree but I think between the two , there's far more variety in the first one more than the recent one

 

[Bor Gullet]

Titanic

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Much as I like the film, Titanic and fantastic writing don't go together.

 

[Godzilla's Left Toe]

Sorry nothing is at the level of the Lion King

 

[TerminusFox]

Absolutely not. The new era is pretty good (especially Tangled), but they aren't at the level of TLK, Aladdin and Beauty and the Beast. And musically it's not even close.

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I'm curious what your list would be for both eras.

 

[Deleted member 1589]

If we want to talk about lightning in the bottles, Frozen is this generation's Lion King, with a bigger cultural impact.

I'll always be particular to Lion King and Beauty & The Beast but man...

https://media.thinknum.com/articles/four-years-after-frozen-was-released-we-still-cant-let-it-go/