elyetis

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,577
Even if it comes with the ability to get a refund like the previous similar case, it's bullshit. It's pretty much about making backers your personal bank investing in you for a 0% interest rate.

If Epic is truely interested in you, ask them to finance your next project from the get go.
 

Lazybob

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
6,710
What are those examples of these well known timed exclusives on the PC?
Right in the next sentence you name MS and Sony. Have you maybe somehow failed to realize that we are talking about PC games?

Oh.. you're one of those.

ironic_meme.jpg
In regards to PC timed exclusives I know there is a bunch of stuff Oculus paid for timed exclusivity. They've also got shit for that in the past though just like Epic has.
 
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Static

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,138
...this sentiment come from?
Because I'm struggling to see how anyone can interpret this from the blog post.
I think that actually comes from daxy 's rough translation of a Russian language podcast of Galyonkin's, from this thread.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/th...te-sergey-clarifying-points-on-twitter.93249/

On the developer's end of things

The most important of these is probably that by the end of 2019 the EGS is expected to open to self-publishing.

Galyonkin states that the 12% cut that the EGS gets for their services is not planned to be raised over time. It might get lower, however, if they will be able to eventually cut a better deal with payment processing companies -- but this won't happen any time soon.

In about five to six years' time, Galyonkin expects to achieve 50% of Steam's userbase. However, he doesn't know yet roughly how many Fortnite players will convert to buyers of other games, as it's too early to tell.

But there may be another source I'm not familiar with.
 

Deleted member 21709

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
23,310
To be fair, not everyone can use Epic or it really is a worse option than Steam, Epic doesn't seem to care about Linux countries at all and people from third world countries or ones where getting games is harder have noticed that Steam offers more payment options and it's a lot easier.

Not everyone can just rely on Paypal or credit cards as hard as it is to believe, and i think Steam offered exclusive payment options to different countries that really helped gamers alongside those Steam Wallet cards, people aren't all against Epic just because they don't want to use another launcher, as hard as it is to believe, to many people, Steam really is a far superior and more convenient launcher than Epic if not the one launcher they can use between the two.

What are Linux countries?
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,102
Canada
So I shouldn't matter because I wasn't lucky to being born in a first-world country? This point of view disgusts me, and I'm disappointed it is allowed in ERA.
So I shouldn't matter because I wasn't lucky to being born in a first-world country? This point of view disgusts me, and I'm disappointed it is allowed in ERA.

Its a parody of khamakazee's post from a few weeks ago. The person you're quoting is against EGS .
 

Overture

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,616
Portugal
I admire everyone that has the patience and the willpower to call anyone defending these practices again and again out on their bullshit.
 

Zem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,018
United Kingdom
Between this and that other game that did the same, and some more that will almost certainly do this in the future, why would I ever help kickstart a game? Thanks for saving me money I guess?
 

Zips

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,920
I would be absolutely livid if I backed that game and then this crap was pulled.

Absolutely disgusting behavior by all parties involved.
 

Deleted member 42

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 24, 2017
16,939
I'd be mad if I backed the game
I'd be fucking STOKED if I Fig backed it and got 220% back holy shit
 

SilentStorm

Member
Apr 14, 2019
2,018
Its a parody of khamakazee's post from a few weeks ago. The person you're quoting is against EGS .
Oh, didn't realize that, i was quite shocked to see someone write that here, but yeah, even as someone from a country that has no big problems with regards to buying games, i find EGS's exclusion of Linux and many other kind of users a very bad thing about the store.

Sure, they may become better in the future, who knows, it's just that so far?

So far i still feel like Steam is the best option for consumers between the two.
 

Deleted member 42

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 24, 2017
16,939
Starting to think you guys should mark your posts as sarcastic because I've seen a fuckload of them that are really bad, to the point that people were having a sarcastic-off and didn't know it

Ugh E3 is coming soon too, buckle up
 

Siresly

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,704
I've basically already stopped crowdfunding things. There's enough games to make me broke anyway.
But this development doesn't exactly make me keen on jumping back in.

Fig differs from Kickstarter in that some backers are investors, who might be happy about getting a return, and some might be ok with screwing over other people because Epic's moneybag adds to the game's budget, but all backers would certainly be in their right to express dissatisfaction.

Mobius' statement in the OP reads like what's uncertain is the platforms beyond Steam the game might become available on. It just incidentally can also be retroactively read differently in today's context. EGS didn't exist in 2015, so it makes no sense why anyone would've expected the PC platform to be what's susceptible to change. This is definitely going back on their promise.

I would demand a refund.
Trust is why I'd opt to crowdfund anything. Break that trust like this and I'm done, I don't care if they're Yu Suzuki or if they managed to cover their asses with vague language or not.

For the record, the Shenmue 3 page does not mention "steam", but the confirmation of my response to the survey where I finalized the details of my order/pledge does.
Which Kickstarter version of Shenmue III would you like?:
Physical Steam Disc (Kickstarter Exclusive Case)
 

Deleted member 42

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 24, 2017
16,939
Unless Metro did absolutely garbage numbers I'd eyeball Shenmue 3 and say that shit is fuckin' gone
Right now it looks like:

Any Annapurna game is gone
The big Ubisoft games are gone
Take2 seems like they will handle it on a case by case basis
Devolver's done a couple deals
Deep Silver might be all in

What're the other pubs that don't have their own launcher already?

WB does Steam still
 

rpm

Into the Woods
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
12,386
Parts Unknown
Unless Metro did absolutely garbage numbers I'd eyeball Shenmue 3 and say that shit is fuckin' gone
Right now it looks like:

Any Annapurna game is gone
The big Ubisoft games are gone
Take2 seems like they will handle it on a case by case basis
Devolver's done a couple deals
Deep Silver might be all in

What're the other pubs that don't have their own launcher already?

WB does Steam still
Japanese publishers are noticeably absent, especially the big ones (Capcom, Sega, Bamco, Square Enix)
Surprised the other mid-tier pubs like THQ Nordic, Focus, 505, etc. haven't gotten in it yet
 

Lazybob

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
6,710
Unless Metro did absolutely garbage numbers I'd eyeball Shenmue 3 and say that shit is fuckin' gone
Right now it looks like:

Any Annapurna game is gone
The big Ubisoft games are gone
Take2 seems like they will handle it on a case by case basis
Devolver's done a couple deals
Deep Silver might be all in

What're the other pubs that don't have their own launcher already?

WB does Steam still
Square Enix. At least I don't think they have one. Capcom too but they son't have anything major coming until Iceborne an the base game is on Steam anyway.

Maybe Activision if they don't want to fill Battle.net with too many non blizzard games (They hadn't put Sekiro on there for example).
 

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
28,299
Between this and that other game that did the same, and some more that will almost certainly do this in the future, why would I ever help kickstart a game? Thanks for saving me money I guess?
First, I'll take a guess that far far more than 1 or 2 crowdfunded games have either never seen the light of day, or not been what the backer hoped, so this seems like a very minor reason to bail on crowd-funding. Besides, you can still play the game if you want. Not like it's vaporware. Second, about half of the funding received saw 220% of their money returned.
 

Deleted member 42

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 24, 2017
16,939
The big Japanese publishers are noticeably absent (Capcom, Sega, Bamco, Square Enix)
Surprised the other mid-tier pubs like THQ Nordic and Focus haven't gotten in it yet

Square Enix. At least I don't think they have one. Capcom too but they son't have anything major coming until Iceborne an the base game is on Steam anyway.

THQ is Deep Silver so they'll end up deciding, Focus is a good one
Same with the Japanese devs, they're usually pretty slow to decide things too

I think the end scenario for this is:

Big pubs: Their own launcher and/or EGS
Mid pubs: EGS/Steam, case by case basis
Low pubs: Everywhere ever
 

SteveWinwood

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,791
USA USA USA
Unless Metro did absolutely garbage numbers I'd eyeball Shenmue 3 and say that shit is fuckin' gone
Right now it looks like:

Any Annapurna game is gone
The big Ubisoft games are gone
Take2 seems like they will handle it on a case by case basis
Devolver's done a couple deals
Deep Silver might be all in

What're the other pubs that don't have their own launcher already?

WB does Steam still
Even with bottomless pockets they aren't going to be doing this forever. They'd expect this stuff to start snowballing at some point and get some sales back. If it doesn't they're not going to keep throwing money away. They'll keep the store open and available to stuff of course but things will certainly be more back to normal in a few years at the very least.

It doesn't take a huge drop in sales numbers and a few different people in a few key positions to reverse a course like that. Microsoft itself is a good example of that.
 

Avitus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,975
Devs should be embarrassed to do this shit. It's one thing to have a publisher sign on with EGS, it's another thing entirely to crowdfund then do this.
 

Deleted member 42

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 24, 2017
16,939
Even with bottomless pockets they aren't going to be doing this forever. They'd expect this stuff to start snowballing at some point and get some sales back. If it doesn't they're not going to keep throwing money away. They'll keep the store open and available to stuff of course but things will certainly be more back to normal in a few years at the very least.

It doesn't take a huge drop in sales numbers and a few different people in a few key positions to reverse a course like that. Microsoft itself is a good example of that.

I'm gonna be perfectly honest here, I don't think things are going back to normal ever again, not like it was for the last decade

Shit's gonna be rough ass seas for at least the next 3-5 years, I'm gonna have to have fucking spreadsheets on what game is on what now like I do for my streaming services, it's hell on earth
 

SteveWinwood

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,791
USA USA USA
I'm gonna be perfectly honest here, I don't think things are going back to normal ever again, not like it was for the last decade

Shit's gonna be rough ass seas for at least the next 3-5 years, I'm gonna have to have fucking spreadsheets on what game is on what now like I do for my streaming services, it's hell on earth
I'm going to disagree. There's been too much of a dust up this time, and they've failed to provide any reason to continue to use them outside of their exclusives. Even then there is no way the sales for any game they've gotten are anything near what they expected or wanted. This is unsustainable.

But there's no way to really know except time I guess.
 
Feb 3, 2018
1,130
My opinion is that Tim Sweeney and epic treat their own devs like crap and claim to care about devs and then use the argument this is good for the consumer and developers when it clearly is not.

It's also worth noting that people saying there are multiple stores already such as origin and uplay forget to remember these are first party titles, nobody is angry Fornite is an epic exclusive.

But when they pulled Metro Exodus from steam less than 14 days before release and made it exclusive the way they did was basically to force those who had not bought it yet over to their platform and that is what set of this firestorm.

The fact there is no choice and those who crowdfunded games now realising they will be forced to use a platform they don't want is kicking those who backed your game in the face.
 

rpm

Into the Woods
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
12,386
Parts Unknown
I think the EGS goes on ice (i.e. still available, but basically just coasting along, no more exclusives) in ~2 years. It'll fall flat as soon as Epic stops cutting the checks. Deep Silver goes back to Steam, Uplay completes their Uplay only transition (I get the feeling they've been wanting to do so for a while but can't turn down the prospect of fattening their wallets a bit in the process). Even the "casuals" I've talked to aren't supporting EGS, because 6 months/1 year exclusivity deals don't have as much as impact in a world where you get a superior and cheaper product by waiting 6 months, and even the average video game consumer is waking up to that shit now
 

Carlius

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,000
Buenos Aires, Argentina
so on the topic of EGS, uplay just removed my regional pricing just to match the NON regional pricing i receive at EPIC SHIT STORE. now i pay full 60 dollars at my conversion which is more than twice as much as i was paying with regional pricing. 1700 pesos for ultimate edition of division 2 now is over 4k, same price as egs.
 

rpm

Into the Woods
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
12,386
Parts Unknown
so on the topic of EGS, uplay just removed my regional pricing just to match the NON regional pricing i receive at EPIC SHIT STORE. now i pay full 60 dollars at my conversion which is more than twice as much as i was paying with regional pricing. 1700 pesos for ultimate edition of division 2 now is over 4k, same price as egs.
I'd sort of get if that happened at launch (Epic forcing Ubi to change it so that they have a chance of someone buying it from them), but I don't see what the point of doing that 2 months after launch is
Is this the game that was given as a Mixer Mixpot reward last year?

Is that still valid?
Yes and seemingly yes

It's supposed to be Play Anywhere too, wonder what's happening with that
 

Static

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,138
Starting to think you guys should mark your posts as sarcastic because I've seen a fuckload of them that are really bad, to the point that people were having a sarcastic-off and didn't know it

Ugh E3 is coming soon too, buckle up
Welcome to the PC E3 6 hour extrrrrrrrravaganza, I'm Sean "Day[9]" Plott, available exclusively through the Epic Game Store.

[SEE MOD POST]
 

Muad'dib

Banned
Jun 7, 2018
1,253
Removed the game from my wishlist and put it on ignore, if the game isn't coming on a store I can buy, meaning Steam, I'm not interested in seeing it nor hearing about it.
 

Nax

Hero of Bowerstone
Member
Oct 10, 2018
6,751
Super bummer for PC crowd. I'll be playing on Xbox One to get that Fallout: NV fix.
 

jaekeem

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,743
Even if it comes with the ability to get a refund like the previous similar case, it's bullshit. It's pretty much about making backers your personal bank investing in you for a 0% interest rate.

If Epic is truely interested in you, ask them to finance your next project from the get go.
yup

time value of money is a thing

these companies are all cowards willing to disrespect the very super fans that gave them the necessary capital for getting started
 

Swenhir

Member
Oct 28, 2017
521
Nah. If Epic gets a sizeable marketshare, they'll stop here and be competitive. And then the wealth will trickle down.

Most assuredly. I can feel the trickling down already.

This is really insane though. Somebody made the point that backers are superfans, they are the people that will fight for you tooth and nail and they are your core audience. Pissing them off really demonstrates Annapurna's complete inadequacy and lack of understanding of the gaming space. That these dudes have so many crowdfunded titles under their umbrella saddens me.
 

Niosai

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,962
*Get money based on some promises"

*Breaks them*

How is that ok for you? I'm genuinely trying to understand how funding something based on promises which the developer willing broke, not because they couldn't reach what they aimed for but just for the money, is ok for you.

How do you rationalize it?
I'm not advocating for broken promises. I do, however, support smaller developers doing what they need to in order to get a chance at success. Plus, to play devil's advocate: No one saw EGS coming. Yeah, they said that they wanted to release on Steam, but EGS didn't even exist back then. I dont think there was malice or greed involved here, just a smaller company looking out for themselves.
 

True Prophecy

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,934
I'm not advocating for broken promises. I do, however, support smaller developers doing what they need to in order to get a chance at success. Plus, to play devil's advocate: No one saw EGS coming. Yeah, they said that they wanted to release on Steam, but EGS didn't even exist back then. I dont think there was malice or greed involved here, just a smaller company looking out for themselves.

Their publisher made the call, no idea how big or small that publisher is but while I understand them taking free money it can and does leave a bad taste more so when the only reason they could sell to EGS was because of the backers in the first place. I don't know if it was malice but they knew it would upset people.
 

Wrellie

Member
Oct 29, 2017
702
Their publisher made the call, no idea how big or small that publisher is but while I understand them taking free money it can and does leave a bad taste more so when the only reason they could sell to EGS was because of the backers in the first place. I don't know if it was malice but they knew it would upset people.

Annapurna is not huge, but not super small. SteveWinwood said earlier in the thread that they were like the A24 of videogames, which is a pretty apt description. Annapurna films has even produced A24 films before.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,102
Canada
Square Enix. At least I don't think they have one. Capcom too but they son't have anything major coming until Iceborne an the base game is on Steam anyway.

Maybe Activision if they don't want to fill Battle.net with too many non blizzard games (They hadn't put Sekiro on there for example).

Activision only uses battlenet for MP releases. SP releases like Crash and Sekiro go to Steam.