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Paradox writes down entire cost of The Lamplighters League (320m SEK) citing weak commercial success, “cautiously positive” subscription players

Mass_Pincup

Mass_Pincup

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,152
I'm a massive fan of Harebrained Schemes and I didn't even heard of it.

Paradox buying the studio continues to be one of my gaming because deception…

AngryMobofSteve said:
80% or so of the studio was let go in July ( I was one of them!). There'll likely be some press about it eventually, but otherwise nothing's been reported/released yet, but you can find several ex-HBS people looking for work over LinkedIn the last couple months.
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Oh so the OG team is basically gone now… Hope you and your former colleagues manèges to land on your feet.
 
Mr Evil 37

Mr Evil 37

Member
Mar 7, 2022
12,149
ThereAreFourNaan said:
When the key art was 3 stylized characters surrounded by a horde of enemies, and is called "____ League" I simply assumed this was some form of competitive or cooperative multiplayer melee/shooter game.

I feel like it's a bit of a branding and/or marketing flub if I, a person who watches a bunch of gaming conferences, and buys almost every Paradox Game, and has a Gamepass Subscription, and enjoys X-Com style games, has no idea that this game which is on Gamepass and published by Paradox Interactive is actually that type of game.
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I mean, all the marketing presented it as an XCOM style game. Did you just not see anything?
 

AngryMobofSteve

Member
Dec 3, 2022
248
RedSparrows said:
As you say, once tuned up the combos and snowballing is so much fun, and the characters all serve such great niches. My Ingrid is an absolute behemoth of death, and there are times where I'm like 'I need to kill 7 targets this round, before I get overwhelmed...' and lo, I do it. So many options and flair. It's great.
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Yeah, I loved how much a machine of death Ingrid can be. I remember having one turn where I knocked like...5-6 enemies down and she ran around finishing each one off, and then chaining that into another AP.

The voice acting too is great, the actors really killed it.
 

AngryMobofSteve

Member
Dec 3, 2022
248
Mr Evil 37 said:
I mean, all the marketing as presented it as an XCOM style game. Did you just not see anything?
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There was specifically a trailer at one of the Xbox conferences (I think it was the June one) that specifically called out it being on Game Pass (I think this was when launch date was finally confirmed/announced too). I still think we had a lot of trouble just getting the word out there. The thread here for following the game had fairly sporadic updates (though I know some people really were persistent about updating it :) )
 
RedSparrows

RedSparrows

Prophet of Regret
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Feb 22, 2019
6,562
There're likely many, many games people haven't heard of. Lamplighters League will not be the first to not be wall-to-wall advertising, nor to perhaps not receive enough marketing at all. Or, it releases with an issue and whump, people switch off.
 
PaulloDEC

PaulloDEC

Visited by Knack
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Oct 25, 2017
7,530
Australia
I was excited to try it when it appeared on GP, but the technical performance was poor from the get-go. I'll come back in a few patches time.
 
Mr Evil 37

Mr Evil 37

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Mar 7, 2022
12,149
ThereAreFourNaan said:
??? Apparently not? Or if I did it was as part of a big trailer montage that did not stick with me at all. Quite a few people in this thread hadn't heard of it at all, while I was at least vaguely familiar with the name.
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Fair. Paradox announced it on a random Tuesday (playing off the relative hype around HBS) but then the release date was announced during the Xbox extended showcase. I think it was playable at Gamescom too. Not a whole lot of marketing, but not nothing either (but also it's a smaller game so you can't expect loads of marketing).

I think the reviews and mainly the technical performance and bugs really let it down. I want to check it out on Game Pass still but I'm waiting for it to be fixed.

My question is, why don't they mention revenue from Game Pass? Microsoft does pay them for inclusion. Surely that sum would have been comparable to their expected sales.
 
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Ont

Ont

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Oct 29, 2017
2,063
Buckle said:
Time to make another Shadowrun game.

...Aww, who am I kidding, they'll just go back to Battletech.
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I am ready throw in £300 for Battletech 2 premium edition.

The Lamplighters League does seen like a fun game. Definitely will play when crashes and save issues have been fixed.
 
AstronaughtE

AstronaughtE

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Nov 26, 2017
10,447
I was pretty excited after I saw it in the June show, but reviews, folks here and reddit, kept me away.
 
RedSparrows

RedSparrows

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Feb 22, 2019
6,562
As an aside, I'm not sure it's fair to write off the pulpy 1920s 'genre' as a irrelevant because only Indy made a success of it. By that token many, many sub-settings and themes are locations of failure becuase they didn't become childhood-defining Spielberg films. The allure of alt-history Victoriana-thru-Edwardiana-thru-interwar, from King Tut to alt-Nazis to flappers-turned-assassins is easy recognisable in smaller instances across different mediums.

Hell, the most popular crime writer in English's most famous works are precisely when her hero meets the 'glam' of interwar Europe. It's not pulp in the sense of Indy or Lamplighters, but it has its own loose relationship with the actual time period.
 

AngryMobofSteve

Member
Dec 3, 2022
248
RedSparrows said:
As an aside, I'm not sure it's fair to write off the pulpy 1920s 'genre' as a irrelevant because only Indy made a success of it. By that token many, many sub-settings and themes are locations of failure becuase they didn't become childhood-defining Spielberg films. The allure of alt-history Victoriana-thru-Edwardiana-thru-interwar, from King Tut to alt-Nazis to flappers-turned-assassins is easy recognisable in smaller instances across different mediums.
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The Mummy is a great piece of the genre. I'm not sure the genre was part of the problem, personally, but I don't know that it does much to bring in people who aren't already interested in that kind of thing. (though, on second thought that does sound like a problem of the genre)
 
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Wereroku

Wereroku

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Oct 27, 2017
6,421
DontHateTheBacon said:
Not a port beg, but man this would have been a purchase on my Switch. I'll throw it on the GamePass queue for now, not sure it competes with the other games on my Xbox/PS5 right now though. I would have loved to play this handheld in bed while winding down.
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It's Xbox exclusive so they really needed gamepass to kick off word of mouth very hard to see any chance. Hopefully they got a good bit for the gp deal and exclusivity.
 
Dolce

Dolce

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Oct 25, 2017
14,285
Dyle said:
Even with the quality of its launch aside, it shouldn't come as a surprise after the failure of Indiana Jones this summer. Early 20th century adventures is a toxic trope these days. The genre is simultaneously overdone and played out while too tied to its misogynistic and racist roots
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To some degree. But at the same time, that general setting is also extremely popular, especially among younger women.
 
Captain of Outer Space

Captain of Outer Space

Come Sale Away With Me
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Oct 28, 2017
11,628
Did they just put all of their hopes into Game Pass and Xbox exclusivity? It's an odd choice and the rough launch doesn't help at all.
 
Gavalanche

Gavalanche

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Oct 21, 2021
18,659
Came out at a busy time
Mediocre reviews and buggy launch
On limited platforms
On gamepass

It sucks but it's hardly surprising sales are low.
 
fragamemnon

fragamemnon

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Nov 30, 2017
6,993
Is there anyone left at HBS to even go back to Battletech with?

I am super dismayed because they are local but I have no idea how Paradox doesn't wind up closing down the studio.

edit: I don't even need a new game, just update Unity to get around the memory leaks in HBS Battletech and I"d pay $50 for that.
 
Sabot

Sabot

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Oct 31, 2017
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I wasn't really interested before the game came out, it had to be perfect to draw my attention and it seems like it was the opposite.
 
Buckle

Buckle

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Oct 27, 2017
41,486
AngryMobofSteve said:
lol, there ain't no one left to make it, bro.
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fragamemnon said:
Is there anyone left at HBS to even go back to Battletech with?

I am super dismayed because they are local but I have no idea how Paradox doesn't wind up closing down the studio.

edit: I don't even need a new game, just update Unity to get around the memory leaks in HBS Battletech and I"d pay $50 for that.
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Shit..

What happened? Paradox gut em?
 
Dandy

Dandy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,567
I loved the Shadowrun games, but had zero interest in Battletech. LL seemed kinda interesting, but I want more RPG goodness from them. Hopefully they're working on a World of Darkness CRPG or something.

Edit:
AngryMobofSteve said:
80% or so of the studio was let go in July ( I was one of them!). There'll likely be some press about it eventually, but otherwise nothing's been reported/released yet, but you can find several ex-HBS people looking for work over LinkedIn the last couple months.
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Oh, damn...
 

AngryMobofSteve

Member
Dec 3, 2022
248
Anno said:
These two things are probably because it wasn't projecting well, though. Like if it had loads of wishlists and engagement or whatever then I imagine they would've launched it at a better time and in a better shape. It's a pretty rough cycle.
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Yeah, it's tricky. Point to any part during this year that wouldn't have been a busy time. There's obviously some inside baseball I'm privy to that I'm not exactly comfortable sharing but at some point you gotta ship, right.

Ont said:
I am ready throw in £300 for Battletech 2 premium edition.

The Lamplighters League does seen like a fun game. Definitely will play when crashes and save issues have been fixed.
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fragamemnon said:
Is there anyone left at HBS to even go back to Battletech with?

I am super dismayed because they are local but I have no idea how Paradox doesn't wind up closing down the studio.

edit: I don't even need a new game, just update Unity to get around the memory leaks in HBS Battletech and I"d pay $50 for that.
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Buckle said:
Shit..

What happened? Paradox gut em?
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Pretty much a done thing. Again I'd prefer people wait for whatever statement ends up coming out, I was a day into vacation when this all went down so I missed the all hands and found out after the fact, mostly because I don't want to maybe color things too much or be inaccurate.

If there had been desire for more BT, it likely would have happened. There was the pipeline in place from BT, there were pitches. PDX's desire was for IP they owned/controlled. People have to keep in mind that HBS didn't OWN Shadowrun or Battletech. That stuff was licensed from Microsoft, so that's another person taking their cut after Steam, etc.
 
Jaded Alyx

Jaded Alyx

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Oct 25, 2017
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Ont

Ont

Prophet of Truth
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Oct 29, 2017
2,063
AngryMobofSteve said:
If there had been desire for more BT, it likely would have happened. There was the pipeline in place from BT, there were pitches. PDX's desire was for IP they owned/controlled. People have to keep in mind that HBS didn't OWN Shadowrun or Battletech. That stuff was licensed from Microsoft, so that's another person taking their cut after Steam, etc.
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I figured original IP was important for Paradox.

It would make sense for Microsoft to hire studio(s) to do Battletech and Mech Commander games for PC/Xbox.
 
Vash

Vash

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,878
AngryMobofSteve said:
Work still in progress. The last few months/weeks haven't exactly been great for working in this industry.

Shadow Gambit devs and Volition closing, the Unreal layoffs, Unity imploding... I'm sure there's a few others I'm forgetting.
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Aw man, had no idea about the 80% of the studio being laid off. I was so happy when Shadowrun came back, even backed the first Kickstarter back then. Was also great being able to talk with Mitch Gitelman at times through their collaboration with HyperRPG on Twitch when they were still in Seattle..

I wish you and everyone else who has been affected by this all the best, and a ton of hugs.
 
Neuromancer

Neuromancer

Fallen Guardian
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Oct 27, 2017
3,841
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DontHateTheBacon said:
Not a port beg, but man this would have been a purchase on my Switch. I'll throw it on the GamePass queue for now, not sure it competes with the other games on my Xbox/PS5 right now though. I would have loved to play this handheld in bed while winding down.
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Not a port beg but I was very interested in this game. It just wasn't on any platforms I happen to play.
 
Wrench

Wrench

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Jan 19, 2022
1,692
AngryMobofSteve said:
80% or so of the studio was let go in July ( I was one of them!). There'll likely be some press about it eventually, but otherwise nothing's been reported/released yet, but you can find several ex-HBS people looking for work over LinkedIn the last couple months.
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I am really sorry about that and it breaks my heart about a studio I love. I hope you find something that equals or betters your position with HBS.
 

AngryMobofSteve

Member
Dec 3, 2022
248
Wrench said:
I am really sorry about that and it breaks my heart about a studio I love. I hope you find something that equals or betters your position with HBS.
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Thanks, honestly that'd be some pretty big shoes to fill. I'd been there since Shadowrun Returns, I was at HBS for like, a quarter of my life. Part of the reason I never looked elsewhere was I wasn't sure I'd find a place I enjoyed as much. But, we'll see how it goes. With the success of Baldur's Gate 3 I hope maybe we'll see people spinning up more CRPG studios with some kind of budget, as I'd love to go back to that space.
 
9-Volt

9-Volt

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,940
Should have been on Switch. Switch's been a heaven to turn based strategy games since it's launch and the developers past games, Shadowrun trilogy are on it right now. Would have done slightly better.
 
Katbobo

Katbobo

Member
May 3, 2022
5,560
Hearing HBS had 80% of their staff laid off is a huge bummer. Massive fan of the studio, and I'm fully intending on checking out this game once they get it into better shape.

9-Volt said:
Should have been on Switch. Switch's been a heaven to turn based strategy games since it's launch and the developers past games, Shadowrun trilogy are on it right now. Would have done slightly better.
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Considering how rough even the PC and Xbox version are, I can't imagine it would have been a pleasant Switch experience
 
9-Volt

9-Volt

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Oct 27, 2017
12,940
Katbobo said:
Considering how rough even the PC and Xbox version are, I can't imagine it would have been a pleasant Switch experience
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By "Should have been on Switch", I meant " Should have targeted Switch". Switch hardware should be their plans in the first place. But the game seems like a MS paid exclusive, not sure how possible it would have been.
 
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Anno

Anno

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Oct 25, 2017
7,040
Columbus, Ohio
9-Volt said:
But the game seems like a MS paid exclusive
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Is there some reason to think this? I imagine it's more like "we were initially only going to release this on PC for now but then Microsoft paid us to put it on Gamepass so we also made an Xbox version", not necessarily "Microsoft paid us to keep this niche strategy game off of other platforms".

If the game can't do well on Paradox's core platform I can't imagine it doing well anywhere outside of an incentive like Gamepass.
 
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