It's probably not a risk people are willing to take when the threat of losing your job for the possibility of unionizing is real.So what do the American unions actually offer? Here in Australia my union has fought to achieve a lot of substantial improvements to my job industry, especially during COVID. As a Teacher Aide I now have a higher wage that is continuing to increase per the most recent agreement by roughly 2% per annum, more personal development days, further paid cover during school holidays, easier pathways for higher grade classification, clear channels for communicating work issues and above all a strong satisfaction in being supported.
I know that America is different, and the assumed understanding of unions is practically gaslighting for beginners, but surely the positives are clear enough to see through the disinformation?
I think if we had public healthcare, sick days and any other social safety nets unions would be done for.
So what do the American unions actually offer? Here in Australia my union has fought to achieve a lot of substantial improvements to my job industry, especially during COVID. As a Teacher Aide I now have a higher wage that is continuing to increase per the most recent agreement by roughly 2% per annum, more personal development days, further paid cover during school holidays, easier pathways for higher grade classification, clear channels for communicating work issues and above all a strong satisfaction in being supported.
I know that America is different, and the assumed understanding of unions is practically gaslighting for beginners, but surely the positives are clear enough to see through the disinformation?
It depends on the industry. In logistics the benefits tend to be very minor these days and given how relatively well Amazon pays it shouldn't come as a surprise that employees wouldn't support it. Most will see a vote like this as a choice between a guaranteed $X versus a risky $X+1, where the additional benefits aren't worth the risk of losing everything that comes with the job. They're well aware that Amazon doesn't care about them and will toss them to the curb as soon as they can if they unionize.So what do the American unions actually offer? Here in Australia my union has fought to achieve a lot of substantial improvements to my job industry, especially during COVID. As a Teacher Aide I now have a higher wage that is continuing to increase per the most recent agreement by roughly 2% per annum, more personal development days, further paid cover during school holidays, easier pathways for higher grade classification, clear channels for communicating work issues and above all a strong satisfaction in being supported.
I know that America is different, and the assumed understanding of unions is practically gaslighting for beginners, but surely the positives are clear enough to see through the disinformation?
That's because DC is a very concentrated area, when in the other instances you're getting the average from the entire state.
I worked in a similar grocery union twice and it sucked. Worst time. I work for a more powerful crafts union now and it's great. It just depends.I'd imagine some of them might have been in a union before. I was in one working at a grocery store, and the main thing it did was cap my earnings potential since raises were fixed and everything went by seniority. I ended up getting a another job at the grocery store down the street and got 3 years of the fixed rate union raises in my first year. I'd imagine unions are better for higher end jobs, but at the lower end I certainly didn't see much in it for me.
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I wouldn't vote for it. Amazon would just leave. I saw a union vote go in favor of the unions 6 years ago. Today the company shifted a shit ton of those jobs out of state. It took time but it happened.Not surprised. It's Alabama. Red states will always vote against their best interests.
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The PRO act is great and I really hope it passed, but what would have really helped in situations like here is card check.
And cut your nose to spite your face? I don't know. It's possible they could, but I think there are too many ramifications they wouldn't want to face, such as potential protests and a public backlash. This attempt to form a union has gotten national attention, so I'd think amazon wouldn't want to react by just closing the facility.I think your analysis of the situation is completely wrong. Amazon would shutter that place in a heartbeat to send a clear message to all FCs. I am actually interested to see the response following the vote. I would not be surprised if they shut down the warehouse anyways to avoid any future votes.
No we don't. You've obviously never been in a shitty union before. No one should be forced to join a union.
Amazon has won a victory in its hard-fought campaign to stop workers at an Alabama warehouse forming the company's first union, in a tough blow for the US labor movement.
Workers at the Bessemer, Alabama, plant have voted 1,798 to 738 so far to reject the Retail, Wholesale and Department Store Union. Counting concluded on Friday morning, and would next focus on adding up challenges and voided ballots, but the margin of victory may be too much to change the outcome.
The union immediately said it would launch a legal challenge to the result, which is likely to look at the high number of contested ballots and union allegations of unfair tactics during the campaign. Amazon shares rose 0.8% Friday, adding to earlier gains.
Amazon strongly and publicly opposed the union, from seeking to delay the election, pushing for in-person voting, hiring expensive union avoidance consultants, forcing workers to participate in captive audience meetings, flooding workers with anti-union messaging and encouraging them to vote against it, sponsoring local media content, and waging PR fights against critics.
Amazon's ass needs to be sued hard.
Bezos and his cronies should never sleep peacefully as long as they live.
Hear hearThis is sad thinking as there are other countries with public healthcare, sick days and other social nets yet unions still exist.
I'm in a union as well and the positives you list also apply to me but I'm in Canada.
I think what a lot of people miss that's really important is that with unions there's more power given to employees. There's collective bargaining that can allow for better conditions for employees as well as ways to improve their own careers. It might not be instant, but bettering things are never easy and it's always a constant battle.
I feel like if we get one warehouse to vote Yes and the negotiate higher wages and benefits then the other locations will start to follow suit.
That's not necessarily the case, we don't know how much of it is actually worker satisfaction vs. anti-union propaganda. Amazon has a huge influence on that front since they can bombard employees with messages suggesting workers have isn't good and don't need a union. Along with apparent beliefs that amazon would just shut down the facility in reaction if they did lose.I fully understand how much pressure union busting puts on employees. I get the battered wife syndrome and fear of losing a job. But 2-1 is another level. A total blowout. Absolutely devastating. It strongly suggests (even to me) bad working conditions were not as widespread as I believed and workers are generally happy with their compensation.
Otherwise it would be a closer vote. Nobody expected a win here, but a loss like this sends an unambiguous message that organized labor is dead when it comes to Amazon.
That is not how I would have voted, but these threads are just filled with so much patronization.
You cannot elevate poor people while calling them stupid.
Even though $15 per hour, per person is not poor in Alabama.
I fully understand how much pressure union busting puts on employees. I get the battered wife syndrome and fear of losing a job. But 2-1 is another level. A total blowout. Absolutely devastating. It strongly suggests (even to me) bad working conditions were not as widespread as I believed and workers are generally happy with their compensation.
Otherwise it would be a closer vote. Nobody expected a win here, but a loss like this sends an unambiguous message that organized labor is dead when it comes to Amazon.
Working conditions might be as bad and widespread as believed, but at the end of the day if the decision is between a $15/hr paycheck and no paycheck at all, lots of people are willing to stomach shitty conditions for good pay. Better working conditions isn't much of a benefit if there's no job period. Easy to see why so many opt for the devil you know.I fully understand how much pressure union busting puts on employees. I get the battered wife syndrome and fear of losing a job. But 2-1 is another level. A total blowout. Absolutely devastating. It strongly suggests (even to me) bad working conditions were not as widespread as I believed and workers are generally happy with their compensation.
Otherwise it would be a closer vote. Nobody expected a win here, but a loss like this sends an unambiguous message that organized labor is dead when it comes to Amazon.
I'd imagine some of them might have been in a union before. I was in one working at a grocery store, and the main thing it did was cap my earnings potential since raises were fixed and everything went by seniority. I ended up getting a another job at the grocery store down the street and got 3 years of the fixed rate union raises in my first year. I'd imagine unions are better for higher end jobs, but at the lower end I certainly didn't see much in it for me.
Others said the union's failure reflected problems with its organizing tactics, which included gaining the support of national politicians and celebrities.
I feel like many young people don't like unions because they feel they can outwork the older people, since they by and large have less commitments and more flexible schedules, plus, well, they're younger. Maybe they even buy into the corporation is your family stuff and you need to kill yourself to get ahead. Then they get older, have families and other commitments, discover the corporation is not your friend and that without a union the company will replace you with a younger, cheaper worker as soon as it's feasible to do so.
Yeah. I'm baffled whenever I see these company-made anti-union videos, because honestly, I don't even know how you get out of that quagmire without banning these videos. I'm not American and assume this is a first amendment thing, but I'm pretty sure these kinds of official, overt anti-union activities are banned in a lot of countries. You can't create a framework where a healthy approach to defending workers rights exists without setting limits to how hard you can campaign against unions.Just about every reason the no voters gave sounds like they came from the anti-Union videos companies show during on boarding in the retail sector. It is sad how much anti-Union propaganda companies are allowed to show their employees to condition the employees against unions. This country's labor conditions as a whole will only get significantly better with regulations and laws at the federal level.2 Amazon workers explain why they voted against unionizing
Before the result of the Amazon union vote was announced on Friday, we spoke to two employees about the reasons they voted no.www.businessinsider.com
Maybe the whole effort just got less popular as the Yes vote message became less about fixing issues with this specific workplace and more about a national fight over disconnected, non-germane parts of a wider agenda.
also from the same NYT article
And cut your nose to spite your face? I don't know. It's possible they could, but I think there are too many ramifications they wouldn't want to face, such as potential protests and a public backlash. This attempt to form a union has gotten national attention, so I'd think amazon wouldn't want to react by just closing the facility.
Def not letting Amazon off the hook for its actions here, but now it's looking like a messier combination of things that led to this result.
Yeah, I can see that being an issue with other things too like maternity and sick leave where one group of employees feel they have to constantly cover for others for the same pay. But I don't think anyone from the younger generation buys into the corporation is their family shit.I feel like many young people don't like unions because they feel they can outwork the older people, since they by and large have less commitments and more flexible schedules, plus, well, they're younger. Maybe they even buy into the corporation is your family stuff and you need to kill yourself to get ahead. Then they get older, have families and other commitments, discover the corporation is not your friend and that without a union the company will replace you with a younger, cheaper worker as soon as it's feasible to do so.
Or maybe people have given up on unions? I left my union since I have no interest give money for them so they can sell out the young workers and please the seniors who only have couple of years left in their career anyway.
edit. Given that with Amazon you can't actually do worse with union.