People understand the FFVII Remake doesn’t say Part 1 for Square’s benefit, not the consumer’s benefit, right?

[Lobster Roll]

"Hmm, it's been a few days since I've gone into this thread. I wonder if people are still making false equivalencies, marching to the beat of the corporate drums, misunderstanding consumers' rights, misrepresenting consumers' expectations, handwaving first- and second-hand accounts of lifetime fans learning about the Midgar-only news in present day, and displaying willful ignorance of modern marketing tactics."

Yup. Looks like that's still the case. Some folks just have their heels dig in to shield their favorite toy from any form of criticism, I guess.

 

[The Unsent]

Have you played the game yet to say this?

Click to shrink...

It's technically a 'full game' whatever they do. The full game argument gets in a rabbit hole comparing it to different adaptations that cross different mediums, and opinions on what it would need to be full. It's a fallacy meant to obstruct the topic and distract.

It's still a bait and switch that the front cover implies a general or straight forward remake, not just how 'full' it is.

 

[Meia]

Are the people in here just as upset that the movie "It Chapter 1" was only called "It"? It was still a complete movie in itself and the "End of Chapter 1" was a cool surprise for people who did not know what they were in for.

I think people playing FF7 for the first time will be happy when they find out there is much more to the story when they reach the end of the game. Yeah, some people will be disappointed that this is not the whole story, but it is not as if they only get 5 hours of gameplay or something.

Click to shrink...

This is and never will be an apt comparison.


- IT was a complete movie, even with the "Chapter 1" stinger at the end having people believe there would be more. We don't know on what kind of end FFVII Remake will be, so we have to wait until it's out to see if the same applies. KEEPING IN MIND for the same to apply Sephiroth would have to be dealt with in this episode 1, something highly unlikely.

- IT isn't called "IT Remake", it's just called IT. FFVII is actually called "FFVII Remake". In this medium, we have plenty of precedent for what this means. Resident Evil Remake wasn't just the Spencer mansion with double it's room layout so it lasts 3 hours at a quick run through, so why do you think FFVII getting this treatment is ok?


Stop defending it and call it what it is: A misleading marketing ploy. Because yes, as was stated in an earlier post, you have no guarantee we'll ever see the whole remake. Do people forget that a lot of the joy of FFVII was getting out of Midgar that first time and seeing just how much bigger the world was outside of it? They've taken so much pains to greatly extend Midgar, do you actually think every other town locale is going to get this similar treatment? How about the overworld itself?

 

[Wamb0wneD]

back to movies huh?

just admit they know they would lose sales if it said part one

Click to shrink...

Its hilarious how these people dont even realize they cant have a single reference point in gaming. At some point a reasonable person would stop in their tracks and reconsider why that is....right?

 

[AlexFlame116]

They aren't fooling anyone.
This is a full game FF7 for them.
If there is part 2 then it is a sequel.

Just like the naming of LoTR movies

Click to shrink...

Ah yes. Who could forget The Lord of the Rings, The Lord of the Rings Pt 2, and The Lord of the Rings Pt 3.

Except wait. They actually have subtitles! Showing that is is a part of a larger story! Wow! Who knew that adding a subtitle could change expectations!

 

[The Unsent]

Its hilarious how these people dont even realize they cant have a single reference point in gaming. At some point a reasonable person would stop in their tracks and reconsider why that is....right?

Click to shrink...

Sometimes they compare it to different remakes, but it's usually smaller changes in that remake compared to not having most of world. And sometimes to games that aren't even remakes which have different expectations all together.

 

[Kolibri]

They aren't fooling anyone.
This is a full game FF7 for them.
If there is part 2 then it is a sequel.

Just like the naming of LoTR movies

If they put part 1, they owe everyone a part 2.
This could just be a game with an ending and that's it.
Just wait for the game to come out and read the review if you are really that uncertain.

If you buy the game day 1 without any review and never read any news about this game, then good luck.
You fool yourself.

Click to shrink...

"This is a full game FF7 for them."
Do you play past Midgar in the original FF7? Yes.
Do you play past Midgar in this remake? No.
This is - in a very literal sense - NOT a full FF7 game for anybody.
This has been said before: people are not disputing whether or not it is a full game or not. They are rightly saying it's not a complete remake of the original.

"If there is part 2 then it is a sequel."
Yes…? I don't see why this would mean they shouldn't clarify that the first game is part 1 on the cover.

"Just like the naming of LoTR movies"
The LoTR movies are aptly named after the volumes of the books. FF7 was not split up like LoTR was at all. I don't understand how you could think this is a good comparison.

"If they put part 1, they owe everyone a part 2."
The back of the box already says it's the "first, standalone game in the Final Fantasy VII Remake project." By your logic they already owe everyone a part 2, considering they called it the first game in a project. Calling it part 1 wouldn't lock them in like you think/say it would.
It doesn't even need to have "part 1" as a subtitle, as long as they SOMEHOW make clear on the front cover that it's not the entire original story.

"If you buy the game day 1 without any review and never read any news about this game, then good luck."
"If you expect a remake of Final Fantasy VII, just because the title says literally that, and the box art is the same fucking image as the original game, then good luck."

 

[Wamb0wneD]

Sometimes they compare it to different remakes, but it's usually smaller changes in that remake compared to not having most of world. And sometimes to games that aren't even remakes which have different expectations all together.

Click to shrink...

Yep, there isn't a single apt comparison, yet these folks desperatley tey to find one. It would be hilarious if it wasn't so sad.

 

[Ferrs]

Ah yes. Who could forget The Lord of the Rings, The Lord of the Rings Pt 2, and The Lord of the Rings Pt 3.

Except wait. They actually have subtitles! Showing that is is a part of a larger story! Wow! Who knew that adding a subtitle could change expectations!

Click to shrink...

The substitles are also the same as the ones from the original book volumes. So, the the title of the movie Lords of the Rings: Fellowship of the Ring tells you it adapts the volume of books named Lords of the Rings: Fellowship of the Ring.

I don't know why LOTR keeps appearing, when it's an example of this stuff done right.

 

[Doorman]

I was replying to the argument that putting "part 1" on the cover would confuse consumers into thinking the product is something undesirable, but also that Square Enix has been totally clear all along about what consumers should expect and so not having a subtitle is perfectly fine.

If ancillary marketing is so clear and effective, then no one should be confused by "part 1" and so there's no reason not to have it there.

Click to shrink...

Ding ding ding ding.
What makes it preferable for the title and front cover of a product to imply something it's not and have outside material explain the difference, yet making the title itself clearer and outside material explains why the product is still a "full experience" with expanded content? Hmm.

So far the only answer I've seen to my "what's the harm?" question is that Square wouldn't want people to mistake this for a spinoff or episodic release, but...it kinda is? In order for Just Midgar to have enough content to warrant calling it a full game, how much of what's in this package is going to have no direct analog in the original FFVII? The game is going to already be half-spinoff at that point anyway and I personally consider it as such, given how relatively little of my strongest memories of FFVII take place in Midgar. If I listed a top 10 moments off the top of my head, this "remake" will include what, two, maybe three of them?

I won't speak for others in the thread, but I'm not actually that outraged or anything, or calling for Square Enix boycotts. I don't think execs are sitting back, twirling curly mustaches and laughing about how they're fooling idiot gamers. I just think the title as it stands now is dumb and worthy of criticism. The math of the situation feels really obvious when split into just a couple of simple questions:

Final Fantasy VII Remake vs. Final Fantasy VII Remake: Act 1 (or FFVIIR: Midgar)

Between these two title options,
1. What sort of imagery of the product does each title convey?
2. Which title is a more accurate description of what the product is?
3. Which title is likely to sell more copies of the game?
4. Why does the discrepancy in answers between 2 and 3 exist, and consequently why has Square chosen the title they have?

 

[Ruby-Eyed Witch]

If they put part 1, they owe everyone a part 2.
This could just be a game with an ending and that's it.

Click to shrink...

I'd like to see Square Enix abort this project a year from now and announce "Read the title: Final Fantasy VII Remake. Period. We don't owe you a part 2." The backlash would shatter the Earth.

 

[Plum]

This is and never will be an apt comparison.


- IT was a complete movie, even with the "Chapter 1" stinger at the end having people believe there would be more. We don't know on what kind of end FFVII Remake will be, so we have to wait until it's out to see if the same applies. KEEPING IN MIND for the same to apply Sephiroth would have to be dealt with in this episode 1, something highly unlikely.

Click to shrink...

This is why so many of these movie comparisons just don't work. Very, very few films end at a point where the primary conflict of that story isn't solved in some way or another. Even The Godfather, which only adapted a part of the original book, ended in a way that you would never need to see Part 2 to get the full story of 'The Godfather'; if we had never seen where Micheal Corleone had become 'The Godfather' then I doubt people would remember the film as fondly.

With Final Fantasy VII Remake we know that Sephiroth is going to be in the story as an antagonist so the story in Final Fantasy VII: Remake is guaranteed to be unfinished. They can't change the story enough to somehow have Sephiroth 'defeated' in the first part because the entire project is running on nostalgia above all else.

Oh, and just to preempt the arguments; no, horror movies where 'the monster is still out there' don't count nor do Marvel films with post-credit sequences. Those kinds of things are sequel bait and part of the fun, they take nothing away from the conflict of each film because those conflicts are always resolved within the main body of the film itself.

The substitles are also the same as the ones from the original book volumes. So, the the title of the movie Lords of the Rings: Fellowship of the Ring tells you it adapts the volume of books named Lords of the Rings: Fellowship of the Ring.

I don't know why LOTR keeps appearing, when it's an example of this stuff done right.

Click to shrink...

Achskually the The Two Towers adapts some of The Return of the King and vice-versa to benefit the narrative by giving a more equal amount of time to the main cast in each of the three films. It's totally deceptive!!!!

 

[Swift_Gamer]

It's technically a 'full game' whatever they do. The full game argument gets in a rabbit hole comparing it to different adaptations that cross different mediums, and opinions on what it would need to be full. It's a fallacy meant to obstruct the topic and distract.

It's still a bait and switch that the front cover implies a general or straight forward remake, not just how 'full' it is.

Click to shrink...

Cool but that doesn't answer my question at all. You haven't played the game so you have no way to say it won't feel like a full game. Running around in circles trying to avoid answering that question won't work.

 

[Wireframe]

Imagine not looking at the case

"Hmm, it's been a few days since I've gone into this thread. I wonder if people are still making false equivalencies, marching to the beat of the corporate drums, misunderstanding consumers' rights, misrepresenting consumers' expectations, handwaving first- and second-hand accounts of lifetime fans learning about the Midgar-only news in present day, and displaying willful ignorance of modern marketing tactics."

Yup. Looks like that's still the case. Some folks just have their heels dig in to shield their favorite toy from any form of criticism, I guess.

Click to shrink...

Longest drive-by post I think I've ever seen lol

 

[Blergmeister]

The ancillary material argument falls flat for me because I've had enough anecdotal experience of telling friends post demo drop that the game roughly contains just the initial Midgar portion of the game. These were people who may not be on forums all the time yet are huge fans of the original game and have bought it across multiple rereleases. The title implies it's a full remake of an old game full stop, and it's not. I think there is enough here that a lawsuit could theoretically happen, which, to me, why would you even invite that? Name your products appropriately square enix

 

[Lobster Roll]

Imagine not looking at the case

Longest drive-by post I think I've ever seen lol

Click to shrink...

Except I've been in this thread multiple times over multiple days providing cogent arguments in defense of consumers' rights, while you lazily say "imagine not looking at the case", which is (ironically) a drive-by post.

 

[Snake__]

It's fine if you personally don't care and I'm still gonna buy the game, but I can't believe how many people are straight up defending this bullshit

 

[Wamb0wneD]

Imagine not looking at the case

Click to shrink...

The case says FF7 Remake.
Imagine acting like people actually read the back of the box just so you can downplay shady marketing tactics.

 

[KhandoleezzaRice]

Ding ding ding ding.
What makes it preferable for the title and front cover of a product to imply something it's not and have outside material explain the difference, yet making the title itself clearer and outside material explains why the product is still a "full experience" with expanded content? Hmm.

So far the only answer I've seen to my "what's the harm?" question is that Square wouldn't want people to mistake this for a spinoff or episodic release, but...it kinda is? In order for Just Midgar to have enough content to warrant calling it a full game, how much of what's in this package is going to have no direct analog in the original FFVII? The game is going to already be half-spinoff at that point anyway and I personally consider it as such, given how relatively little of my strongest memories of FFVII take place in Midgar. If I listed a top 10 moments off the top of my head, this "remake" will include what, two, maybe three of them?

I won't speak for others in the thread, but I'm not actually that outraged or anything, or calling for Square Enix boycotts. I don't think execs are sitting back, twirling curly mustaches and laughing about how they're fooling idiot gamers. I just think the title as it stands now is dumb and worthy of criticism. The math of the situation feels really obvious when split into just a couple of simple questions:

Final Fantasy VII Remake vs. Final Fantasy VII Remake: Act 1 (or FFVIIR: Midgar)

Between these two title options,
1. What sort of imagery of the product does each title convey?
2. Which title is a more accurate description of what the product is?
3. Which title is likely to sell more copies of the game?
4. Why does the discrepancy in answers between 2 and 3 exist, and consequently why has Square chosen the title they have?

Click to shrink...

Why is one title likely to increase sales over the other? Do you feel that having "Part 1" or "Midgar" as a subtitle would deter people from buying the game?

 

[DmckPower]

A lot of people are responding to this saying that "it can't possibly ever happen!" , when:

1- FF7 remake itself was in fact in development hell, was developed by cyber connect 2 before they scrapped their game completely, and it took FIVE years just for the "first" part, when it was clear that they intended it to release it was sooner, no one in 2015 was like "yeah first part is releasing 5 years from now its only natural, that will only cover about 15% of the original game and will be mostly linear"

2-Life is unpredictable and nothing is guaranteed, MGS5 was not a complete project with missing chapter despite the time it took to develop, was even kinda split into parts if counting GZ, Half-Life episode 3 isn't happening either despite them actually announcing it in the past during episode 2 release, along many many examples.

3- but let's just say that "Those are different circumstances from different companies " or whatever, Square Enix themselves had similar experiences in the past, KH3 took many many years, and even then it released in a sorta not complete state and you had to buy the 30$ DLC -can even cost more in EU for like 36$ depending on where you live- to get the complete experience, everyone knows about FF 13 versus cancellation , but let's just say it re-emerged as FF15, people are forgetting that the latest DLC plans for FF15 was cancelled as well mere 2 years ago! And that game was one of the best selling FF games too and yet they cancelled planned DLCs without a problem.

4- not even mentioning the fact that FF15 itself was a "project that was taken over by a different staff" and that was one game , imagine 3 games -at the very least!- and the first one took 5 years, with later parts being more open and have even bigger worlds and open world, how many years it will take? Will the original staff all remains during all those years? Without exhaustion or someone quitting or getting sick or anything? Staff are not immortal, they are still humans and anything can happens during that time.

5- Technically even FF7 Remake is a "project taken over by other staff" since cyber connect 2 is not even involved anymore .


so...yeah, that's a real possibility that can happen and it DID happen in the past, not something "stupid and unrealistic", not saying it would happen but it COULD, shit happens all the time.

Click to shrink...

I agree.

This is exactly what I am thinking too.

 

[Doorman]

Why is one title likely to increase sales over the other? Do you feel that having "Part 1" or "Midgar" as a subtitle would deter people from buying the game?

Click to shrink...

Compared to simply calling it "Remake" with no subtitle? Yes I in fact believe it would deter some people.

Myself, for instance. For me leaving Midgar is when it always felt to me like the adventure of FFVII was truly beginning, so having a game based entirely in Midgar doesn't do much for me. Luckily I'm already well aware of the game's piecemeal approach to remaking its source content.

Edit: I will also add that if you believe the title of this wouldn't affect sales one way or the other, then all the more reason to go with the title that more accurately describes the product and preemptively spares any possible consumer confusion!

 

[MH MD]

it's hard to keep track of 30 page thread, but if there is movie comparisons all over the place, how about mentioning a movie that actually called it's first installment "part 1"cause it was decided from the get-go that it will be multiple movies and not the complete story? i am talking about "Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows – Part 1" of course, no one was fooled by what the movie will actually cover, cause they called it part 1 from the get-go, and it is an adaptation of a known "old" story, why the same is hard for FF7 remake for some reason?

 

[The Unsent]

Cool but that doesn't answer my question at all. You haven't played the game so you have no way to say it won't feel like a full game. Running around in circles trying to avoid answering that question won't work.

Click to shrink...

Sorry I think you got me confused with the other guy. I'm just making a commentary of the rabbit hole of the 'full game' argument people can get suckered into.

 

[doof_warrior]

Are the people in here just as upset that the movie "It Chapter 1" was only called "It"? It was still a complete movie in itself and the "End of Chapter 1" was a cool surprise for people who did not know what they were in for.

I think people playing FF7 for the first time will be happy when they find out there is much more to the story when they reach the end of the game. Yeah, some people will be disappointed that this is not the whole story, but it is not as if they only get 5 hours of gameplay or something.

Click to shrink...

lol this is an apples to oranges comparison

this game and its cover will absolutely rope in a not insignificant amount of casual gamers who remember ff7 from their childhood and they have no idea this remake (which has the same cover art, even!) that says "ff7 remake" as the title, is only a remake of the first 5+ hours of the original game

 

[KhandoleezzaRice]

Compared to simply calling it "Remake" with no subtitle? Yes I in fact believe it would deter some people.

Myself, for instance. For me leaving FFVII is when it always felt to me like the adventure was truly beginning, so having a game based entirely in Midgar doesn't do much for me. Luckily I'm already well aware of the game's piecemeal approach to remaking its source content.

Click to shrink...

Is some people enough to be a noticeable amount though? There's no numbers to back up either argument but anecdotally speaking most people are surprised but still intend to buy the game. A lot of movies break novels into chunks while being clear about the contents and there's nothing that indicates the movie would have done better if they tried to hide what it is.

 

[Kolibri]

Cool but that doesn't answer my question at all. You haven't played the game so you have no way to say it won't feel like a full game. Running around in circles trying to avoid answering that question won't work.

Click to shrink...

If the person you replied to had initially said:
"This first bit won't feel like a full story, regardless of length" instead of "This first bit won't feel like a full game, regardless of length"? Would you still be making the same argument? Honestly asking.

Because personally I expect that you will get a full game (despite not having played it, obviously). But ultimately the question at hand is whether the box art/title is misleading the customer. You can buy a full game, even a great one, and still not get what you the box implied you were getting.

 

[AlexFlame116]

Imagine not looking at the case

Longest drive-by post I think I've ever seen lol

Click to shrink...

Except not really a drive-by post when they've made multiple posts here so....

 

[Doorman]

Is some people enough to be a noticeable amount though? There's no numbers to back up either argument but anecdotally speaking most people are surprised but still intend to buy the game. A lot of movies break novels into chunks while being clear about the contents and there's nothing that indicates the movie would have done better if they tried to hide what it is.

Click to shrink...

I get that you likely replied to this before I had a chance, but I'll refer you to the edit I made to my prior post in this case. If there were no difference, then embracing clarity and stemming customer confusion (or surprise, as you put it) would still be the preferable choice and there'd be even less reason for Square to title the game as they have.

 

[crpj31]

Why do people think that this game story will be 1:1 with the original? It's not just a port ou a game remade with pretty graphics. The story in this game will probably have some closure and a cliffhanger to the next one. Let's wait and play the game before say "it's an incomplete experience!"
And if is incomplete, you know, you can wait until the remake is fully complete in 202X or 203X and play all the pieces together.

 

[The Unsent]

If the person you replied to had initially said:
"This first bit won't feel like a full story, regardless of length" instead of "This first bit won't feel like a full game, regardless of length"? Would you still be making the same argument? Honestly asking.

Because personally I expect that you will get a full game (despite not having played it, obviously). But ultimately the question at hand is whether the box art/title is misleading the customer. You can buy a full game, even a great one, and still not get what you the box implied you were getting.

Click to shrink...

Yeah it's why I keep saying Rabbit Hole. Using the phrase full game obstructs the topic because it's so broad what that could mean and you get distracted going down there.

 

[Wireframe]

Except not really a drive-by post when they've made multiple posts here so....

Click to shrink...

Yeah I read his reply thanks.

 

[Wamb0wneD]

Why do people think that this game story will be 1:1 with the original? It's not just a port ou a game remade with pretty graphics. The story in this game will probably have some closure and a cliffhanger to the next one. Let's wait and play the game before say "it's an incomplete experience!"
And if is incomplete, you know, you can wait until the remake is fully complete in 202X or 203X and play all the pieces together.

Click to shrink...

Will you fight Sephiroth in his final form while One Winged Angel is playing while he hurls meteors at you? No? Then it's not a complete remake of FF7. It doesnt fucking matter if the remake has a closure, its not a remake of the entire FF7 story, which the boxart and trailers are implying.

 

[Wireframe]

Except I've been in this thread multiple times over multiple days providing cogent arguments in defense of consumers' rights, while you lazily say "imagine not looking at the case", which is (ironically) a drive-by post.

Click to shrink...

I mean I could have phrased it better but I've never once picked up a case and then not looked at the back. If buying online you'd also get the relevant info right on the product page.

 

[Deleted member 17388]

Why do people think that this game story will be 1:1 with the original? It's not just a port ou a game remade with pretty graphics. The story in this game will probably have some closure and a cliffhanger to the next one. Let's wait and play the game before say "it's an incomplete experience!"
And if is incomplete, you know, you can wait until the remake is fully complete in 202X or 203X and play all the pieces together.

Click to shrink...

If that's the case then the title "Final Fantasy VII Remake" is not telling the whole story, funnily enough :v

 

[Swift_Gamer]

If the person you replied to had initially said:
"This first bit won't feel like a full story, regardless of length" instead of "This first bit won't feel like a full game, regardless of length"? Would you still be making the same argument? Honestly asking.

Because personally I expect that you will get a full game (despite not having played it, obviously). But ultimately the question at hand is whether the box art/title is misleading the customer. You can buy a full game, even a great one, and still not get what you the box implied you were getting.

Click to shrink...

That's not what they said so it's irrelevant. And i haven't played it, so I can't say if it'll feel like a full story with a cliffhanger yet. But I'm betting it will. Anyway, it's pointless to argue this further as square have no intention to change their instance on this. But it's amusing to see people losing their minds over this as they can vote with their wallets and be done with it.

 

[AlexFlame116]

Yeah I uh...actually really hope that we will fight Safer Sephiroth in the final part. Especially since Nomura had warned that some bosses and story details would be changed/removed.

 

[The Unsent]

Why do people think that this game story will be 1:1 with the original? It's not just a port ou a game remade with pretty graphics. The story in this game will probably have some closure and a cliffhanger to the next one. Let's wait and play the game before say "it's an incomplete experience!"
And if is incomplete, you know, you can wait until the remake is fully complete in 202X or 203X and play all the pieces together.

Click to shrink...

Some people see the simple logo and the cover being a replica of the original and think it's that convenient without reading further. It's a very natural reaction for them to think they can explore that game world that is so loved.

 

[Lobster Roll]

I mean I could have phrased it better but I've never once picked up a case and then not looked at the back. If buying online you'd also get the relevant info right on the product page.

Click to shrink...

And you are not the average consumer. Nor are you the lowest knowledge consumer. It's in the fine print on the back of the box. It's intentionally hidden back there.

 

[Meia]

I mean I could have phrased it better but I've never once picked up a case and then not looked at the back. If buying online you'd also get the relevant info right on the product page.

Click to shrink...

Except in this topic it's not up to people against this naming practice to say why they should have to read the case, it's people defending this that have to explain why this one game that has the word "Remake" in the title with nothing else hinting that it's only part to the whole is ok to get away with it in a medium with a well established definition of what it means to put the word "remake" in your title.


Let's also keep in mind that this company loves to put random gibberish subtitle names, so it's not like them deciding it to call "Final Fantasy VII Remake: AOIMFAOIMNFOAISDMFOIDSNMFOVN" would be all that strange. :p

 

[Doorman]

Imagine calling a game Super Metroid Remake that took place entirely on Ceres Station.
Imagine calling a game Metal Gear Solid 2 Remake that took place entirely on the rain-soaked tanker.
Imagine calling a game Super Mario 64 Remake that still contained 100 stars but only involved the paintings on the castle's first floor and mezzanine.
Imagine calling a game Final Fantasy VII Remake that took place entirely in Midgar.
Imagine calling a game The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time Remake that just covered gathering the spiritual stones and opening the door to the Temple of Time.
Imagine calling a game Chrono Trigger Remake that took place entirely in Truce Village in 1000 and 600AD, and ended when Crono and company escape the castle after the trial.

 

[Htown]

Imagine not looking at the case

Click to shrink...

if people are going to look at both sides anyway, why isn't it on the front instead of the back? why did square make that decision?

if everyone knows what it is, why not call it FF7 Remake: Subtitle instead of FF7 Remake?

Can you account for these decisions?

 

[Wireframe]

if people are going to look at both sides anyway, why isn't it on the front instead of the back? why did square make that decision?

if everyone knows what it is, why not call it FF7 Remake: Subtitle instead of FF7 Remake?

Can you account for these decisions?

Click to shrink...

I personally want that cover as clean as possible (I'll probably be even using the reversible cover with just the logo).

 

[Lobster Roll]

Imagine calling a game Super Metroid Remake that took place entirely on Ceres Station.
Imagine calling a game Metal Gear Solid 2 Remake that took place entirely on the rain-soaked tanker.
Imagine calling a game Super Mario 64 Remake that still contained 100 stars but only involved the paintings on the castle's first floor and mezzanine.
Imagine calling a game Final Fantasy VII Remake that took place entirely in Midgar.
Imagine calling a game The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time Remake that just covered gathering the spiritual stones and opening the door to the Temple of Time.
Imagine calling a game Chrono Trigger Remake that took place entirely in Truce Village in 1000 and 600AD, and ended when Crono and company escape the castle after the trial.

Click to shrink...

But ... and hear me out. What if it's a 40-hour game that does a deep dive on those sections? What then? WHAT THEN?

 

[Kolibri]

That's not what they said so it's irrelevant. And i haven't played it, so I can't say if it'll feel like a full story with a cliffhanger yet. But I'm betting it will. Anyway, it's pointless to argue this further as square have no intention to change their instance on this. But it's amusing to see people losing their minds over this as they can vote with their wallets and be done with it.

Click to shrink...

It's literally the premise of the thread, so I don't see how it would be irrelevant. And cliffhanger or not, full game experience or not, the front cover says it's a remake of FF7 when it is not. That's what it's all about.
If we'd only discuss questionable business practices when there's a big chance that the business will actually make a change, I don't think much would get discussed at all, and even less would change.

As far as voting with my wallet is concerned: I know what I'm getting, because I follow this kind of stuff. I can say: it's not the entire story, but I still want to pay for it. That's fine.
Many people who don't follow this kind of stuff more closely only THINK they are making an informed decision, because the cover directly leads them to believe they are getting the entire story. So they spend their money, play through the game, and THEN find out it's not the entire story. At this point it's too late to return the game, meaning they were robbed of the chance to vote with their wallet. That's not amusing to me.

I personally want that cover as clean as possible (I'll probably be even using the reversible cover with just the logo).

Click to shrink...

I am someone who goes out of his way to avoid games with those god-awful USK rating logo's, so I too like clean covers. But come on... A two word subtitle is as unobtrusive as it gets.
Anyway, since you're using the reversible cover anyway, I understand your problem with a hypothetical subtitle even less.

 

[Swift_Gamer]

As far as voting with my wallet is concerned: I know what I'm getting, because I follow this kind of stuff. I can say: it's not the entire story, but I still want to pay for it. That's fine.
Many people who don't follow this kind of stuff more closely only THINK they are making an informed decision, because the cover directly leads them to believe they are getting the entire story. So they spend their money, play through the game, and THEN find out it's not the entire story. At this point it's too late to return the game, meaning they were robbed of the chance to vote with their wallet. That's not amusing to me.

Click to shrink...

And with that you lose the argument. You can't make a informed decision looking only at the cover of something. This is completely the opposite of making an informed decision. Do you really buy anything judging only by its cover? You don't look for info, read product description and whatnot? I have some bad news for you...

 

[Irrotational]

I can't believe we're at 29 pages and people still can't admit the basic premise of the title of the thread! Amazing!

Not one person has explained why it's better for customers that the box is titled "FFVII Remake".

 

[Kolibri]

And with that you lose the argument. You can't make a informed decision looking only at the cover of something. This is completely the opposite of making an informed decision. Do you really buy anything judging only by its cover? You don't look for info, read product description and whatnot? I have some bad news for you...

Click to shrink...

What you seem to be very adamant about ignoring each and every time, is that Square Enix send an incorrect message by designing the cover the way that they did (aka the premise of this thread). Of course you should do your research. At the same time, there are many people who will already have played the original FF7. Those people see some dope remake footage. When the cover only says FF VII Remake, combined with the original box art, it is an extremely logical assumption to expect the entire story. So logical, in fact, that it's imo false advertising on the front of the box by Square Enix. But by all means, keep ignoring that.

 

[BrandoBoySP]

A lot of people are responding to this saying that "it can't possibly ever happen!" , when:

1- FF7 remake itself was in fact in development hell, was developed by cyber connect 2 before they scrapped their game completely, and it took FIVE years just for the "first" part, when it was clear that they intended it to release it was sooner, no one in 2015 was like "yeah first part is releasing 5 years from now its only natural, that will only cover about 15% of the original game and will be mostly linear"

2-Life is unpredictable and nothing is guaranteed, MGS5 was not a complete project with missing chapter despite the time it took to develop, was even kinda split into parts if counting GZ, Half-Life episode 3 isn't happening either despite them actually announcing it in the past during episode 2 release, along many many examples.

3- but let's just say that "Those are different circumstances from different companies " or whatever, Square Enix themselves had similar experiences in the past, KH3 took many many years, and even then it released in a sorta not complete state and you had to buy the 30$ DLC -can even cost more in EU for like 36$ depending on where you live- to get the complete experience, everyone knows about FF 13 versus cancellation , but let's just say it re-emerged as FF15, people are forgetting that the latest DLC plans for FF15 was cancelled as well mere 2 years ago! And that game was one of the best selling FF games too and yet they cancelled planned DLCs without a problem.

4- not even mentioning the fact that FF15 itself was a "project that was taken over by a different staff" and that was one game , imagine 3 games -at the very least!- and the first one took 5 years, with later parts being more open and have even bigger worlds and open world, how many years it will take? Will the original staff all remains during all those years? Without exhaustion or someone quitting or getting sick or anything? Staff are not immortal, they are still humans and anything can happens during that time.

5- Technically even FF7 Remake is a "project taken over by other staff" since cyber connect 2 is not even involved anymore .


so...yeah, that's a real possibility that can happen and it DID happen in the past, not something "stupid and unrealistic", not saying it would happen but it COULD, shit happens all the time.

Click to shrink...

Uh... 5 years isn't exactly development hell. Plus, The Witcher 3 was made in ~3.5 years; Assassin's Creed Odyssey was around 3 years; Breath of the Wild took 4-5 depending on sources. 5 years is on the longer side of AAA development, but it's certainly not out of the norm (Red Dead Redemption 2 started in 2010 but wasn't released until 2018). Plus, we don't know what was kept from Cyberconnect2's work; we simply know that development went internal.

Seeing as the devs directly compared the VII Remake to the XIII trilogy, look at the timelines: there were two years between XIII and XIII-2, then two between XIII-2 and Lightning Returns. They said they'll probably need more time than with those games, so I'd guess that it would be around 3 years between games, considering the framework is already there for Square. It's certainly a possibility that the remake won't get finished, but it's far from a likelihood. Side-story DLC like in XV is different from full on main games, y'know?

As for Kingdom Hearts III, keep in mind that the game was essentially complete when it was first released. The *quality* of the story is pretty subjective there, but it wrapped up the majority of the main story arcs and had a sequel hook, just as the first two main games did. The DLC later on has been compared to the Final Mix games, which weren't even released in the USA until the HD remasters. If you want to critique Square making Final Mixes in general, by all means do it, but there's no material difference between the DLC and the Final Mix releases, to my knowledge. It's still extra information and sequel hooks, not anything necessarily vital. Hell, the DLC came out, what, a year after the original game's release? It's not like it was completely cut content--it was somewhat of an expansion instead, which is nowhere near weird for gaming.

My point is, I don't think it serves us to be blindly optimistic, but we don't have to act like the world is falling, either. It *could* happen, but it easily could not, and we have precedent pointing more toward things going okay (multiple series releases) than not (publicly cancelled DLC or announced series releases).

 

[Wireframe]

Anyway, since you're using the reversible cover anyway, I understand your problem with a hypothetical subtitle even less.

Click to shrink...

I originally replied to the notion of putting that big box saying midgar only on the front of the case. I have less of a problem with a subtitle, though the current naming convention is my preferred (as I'm one of those informed buyers).

Logo only cover with this on the front would be horrendous.

 

[Swift_Gamer]

What you seem to be very adamant about ignoring each and every time, is that Square Enix send an incorrect message by designing the cover the way that they did (aka the premise of this thread). Of course you should do your research. At the same time, there are many people who will already have played the original FF7. Those people see some dope remake footage. When the cover only says FF VII Remake, combined with the original box art, it is an extremely logical assumption to expect the entire story. So logical, in fact, that it's imo false advertising on the front of the box by Square Enix. But by all means, keep ignoring that.

Click to shrink...

It's not that I'm ignoring it, it's just that I don't care. It's not my job to inform people about this, it's their job to look for info and it's being said since the beginning this is a multipart project. It's written everywhere and there are interviews and a bunch of info stating it. So, I'm really sorry, it's on the buyer it they don't know and honestly, I couldn't care less. And, nope, that's not how false advertising works, sorry to burst your bubble.