I really need to set aside some time to digest all this. Are there any flowcharts/hierarchies/trees that show interrelations?
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PlayStation 5 System Architecture Deep Dive |OT| Secret Agent Cerny
- Thread starter vestan
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sorry i dont mean you i meant their post.That is not something PS4 Pro has needed as for the most part Pro games are just PS4 games rendered at higher resolution but I don't see how assets enhancement couldn't be done as PS4 patching system supports.
Hardly. The post I replied to implies that is something unique to Smart Delivery.
MS has been needlessly cryptic here IMO, but you can rest assured that LZ is the major part of BCPack (after whatever RDO like loss generation and other work done to make DXT 'nicer' for LZ to deal with) it's not like it's completely different ASIC - just like Kraken is a LZ derivative and thus likely plays nicely with having ZLIB as a second option.
In that vein - it's almost a given BCPrep-like steps are ran ahead of LZ as well - there's been a compressor like that in XDX since 360 days.
And while this 'prep' copying bits around is a low-cost operation, having it in hw removes extra steps from the pipeline, and marketing gets to tag it with a cool name.
That will require Developers to provide builds separated into platform specific portions - ie. it's less of a MS solution and more an extra burden on developers if it becomes a mandated thing.
But that brings me to want to rant about SKU/Patch mastering on console platforms and I really have nothing good to say about it, so I'll stop here.
For cross-gen targets there's no way to automatically do this without requiring developers to have their data-authoring pipeline 'aware' of it (keep some sort of reference map for 'deduplication' if you were to install a legacy game and then optimize it down for SSD console). I suppose it could be made into TRC requirement if MS/Sony are feeling sadistic - but there's no tech wizardry that will make it work - it'll come at expense of developer time.
I was going to suggest that but didn't want to potentially poke a hornet's nest. But yeah, I also wonder if there's distinct 'bcpack' decompression hardware, distinct from the zlib hardware, or if bcpack encodes for zlib (in the same way crunch and oodle encode for lz).
About 99% sure it's the latter. Nothing else would really make sense from throughput and methodology perspective - also evidenced by the fact state of the art methods for DXT encoding mostly rely on some lossless standard anyway. EVEN the likes of JPeg were built on top of a well established lossless codec - albeit the 'packing/RDO' process is a fair bit more involved there.
This is only for BC7 which is intensive, which is what that part of the Twitter thread was about. Not required for BC1-6, which uses the hardware Kraken decompressor.
It's not required for BC7.
The bulk of - and all the lossy - compression for BC7 is achievable here with just the hw kraken decompressor.
You can optionally go for a little more extra compression with another tool they're offering, and that's what requires GPU decompression. Even though it only offers relatively little extra compression next to RDO/lossy compression mentioned above, this additional compression is lossless, so it might be worth the trade-off in some circumstances.
Without it, though, you can still get 2x or more compression ratios for BC7 with their 'medium' RDO settings, without requiring any cpu or gpu time.
If you're underutilizing resources because you're bandwidth-starved, maybe it begins to make sense.
Amplitude Just Got the First Gameplay Trailer From Harmonix
By now you would have heard of the "reboot" version of Amplitude which is being developed by Harmonix. Gamers who were fans of music based videogames back
segmentnext.com
PS5 is confirmed to have VRS.
Amplitude Just Got the First Gameplay Trailer From Harmonix
By now you would have heard of the "reboot" version of Amplitude which is being developed by Harmonix. Gamers who were fans of music based videogames back
PS5 is confirmed to have VRS.
A shocking development.
Yeah, I feel like it was confirmed the moment Sony confirmed it was full RDNA2 and people claiming "Well Sony never specifically said it had XYZ feature" were being really disingenuous.
I mean Matt confirmed it *ages ago* but there seems to be a weird bias against believing that PS5 has the same underlying RDNA2 feature-set as the XSXAmplitude Just Got the First Gameplay Trailer From Harmonix
By now you would have heard of the "reboot" version of Amplitude which is being developed by Harmonix. Gamers who were fans of music based videogames back
PS5 is confirmed to have VRS.
Pretty much. Some wanted the PS5 to have a huge disadvantage.
You got to love these kinds of news stories:Amplitude Just Got the First Gameplay Trailer From Harmonix
By now you would have heard of the "reboot" version of Amplitude which is being developed by Harmonix. Gamers who were fans of music based videogames back
PS5 is confirmed to have VRS.
Story -> quoting a Neogaf user -> who posted an Era screen capture -> talking about a tweet (that was already posted here a thousand times :)):
Yeah....
I also do not understand the connection of variable rate shading and the more fine grain drawing of triangles enabled by mesh shading or RDNA Geometry Engine. One does not require the other at all - hence why Activision literally created a software version of VRS which basically hijacked hadware Coverage Sampling in consoles.
I think people misunderstand that tweet which basically tries to say "GE/Mesh Shaders > VRS", but they think it means "If it has GE/Mesh Shaders, it has VRS". And I say:
There's a weird bias in believing the PS5 isn't horribly flawed from some segments...
Another blog post here on the compressibility of BC6H (hdr) textures with Oodle. It looks really good in comparison to the other encoder shown.
Oodle Texture BC6H ExposƩ
Oodle Texture is a new technology we've developed at RAD Game Tools which promises to dramatically shrink game sizes, reducing what you need to download and store on disk, and speeding up load...
www.jonolick.com
The thing isn't out yet.
But please do enlighten me as to the "flaws" of the PS5 as you see them?
Just use your imagination, man, you can create anything you want!
Variable clocks on a console, 36 CUs when AMD RT is more reliant on CUs than clock speed, having the same bandwidth as a 5700 when you now have to share said bandwidth with the CPU and RT.
Do we even need VRS if literally every PS5 first party exclusive was shown running at native 4k 30 fps?
i mean its disappointing if the ps5 doesnt have it, they are losing what 15-20% of performance? but clearly the ps5 can push great visuals at native 4k. they just need to drop the res to 4kcb and push the visual fidelity further.
this is done by an ex-DICE dev and hes employing the same black bars techniques Ready At Dawn and Ninja theory did to really push visuals instead of pixels.
running realtime. made by one guy.
did anyone here play the last of us 2 last night? the indoor areas look like the epilogue sections in uncharted 4. near photorealistic.
i mean its disappointing if the ps5 doesnt have it, they are losing what 15-20% of performance? but clearly the ps5 can push great visuals at native 4k. they just need to drop the res to 4kcb and push the visual fidelity further.
this is done by an ex-DICE dev and hes employing the same black bars techniques Ready At Dawn and Ninja theory did to really push visuals instead of pixels.
running realtime. made by one guy.
did anyone here play the last of us 2 last night? the indoor areas look like the epilogue sections in uncharted 4. near photorealistic.
They have VRS so why ask if it matters if they do or don't have it?
It will be fascinating to see quality/compression-ratio between BCPack and Oodle Textures once both will be available soon.Another blog post here on the compressibility of BC6H (hdr) textures with Oodle. It looks really good in comparison to the other encoder shown.
Oodle Texture BC6H ExposƩ
Oodle Texture is a new technology we've developed at RAD Game Tools which promises to dramatically shrink game sizes, reducing what you need to download and store on disk, and speeding up load...www.jonolick.com
AegonSnake
Even if you don't need VRS now, at the very start of the generation, computing/rendering demands for a 36 (and to a lesser degree, 52) CU chip will call for such techniques 5+ years from now.
Even if you don't need VRS now, at the very start of the generation, computing/rendering demands for a 36 (and to a lesser degree, 52) CU chip will call for such techniques 5+ years from now.
I don't believe either next-gen console has any flaws. I would even go as far as say that anyone that says either o them does is flawed.
They are both better at somethings than others, based on the design priorities they chose. I can't think of a single thing either of them has done that could be considered as a flaw.
well, we should have midgen consoles by then. like i said its disappointing, but its not like this is a weak gpu. its weaker than the competition but its still offering 2070 super levels of performance. so we dont get to hit 2080 performance, thats ok. as long as they push the res down to 1440p instead of chasing some unrealistic dream of native 4k, we should have a fine gen.
playing the last of us at 1440p and i seriously cant tell if its native 4k or not. it looks better than anything ive played this gen.
Another blog post here on the compressibility of BC6H (hdr) textures with Oodle. It looks really good in comparison to the other encoder shown.
Oodle Texture BC6H ExposƩ
Oodle Texture is a new technology we've developed at RAD Game Tools which promises to dramatically shrink game sizes, reducing what you need to download and store on disk, and speeding up load...www.jonolick.com
Interesting.
so this is a new article written about forum posts months ago?Amplitude Just Got the First Gameplay Trailer From Harmonix
By now you would have heard of the "reboot" version of Amplitude which is being developed by Harmonix. Gamers who were fans of music based videogames back
PS5 is confirmed to have VRS.
I'm right there with you.
Cheers.
As if before you didn't have 5 pages of "variable clocks means PS5 runs at 9.2TF" arguing :)
You don't know what you're talking about. Those are not bottlenecks. But keep at it warrior.
Every system has flaws, you'll see in 2027 when they talk about how the PS5 was amazing to work with but they just couldn't quite do X thing because they'd have to compromise something.
I think while that'll be true, both these next gen systems present much less of a problem fundamentally from a game design perspective at least, anyway.
I think while that'll be true, both these next gen systems present much less of a problem fundamentally from a game design perspective at least, anyway.
And yet we have next gen games rendering at native 4K and using ray tracing effects. Must not be that much of a flaw and bottleneck then.
I agree with this. Both are extremely well thought out and are nice leap compared to last gen. I also like that they have both gone in different directions while being still comparably the same. It hopefully means we will see different kinds of games really taking advantage of each's strengths, something we haven't seen between consoles in quite some time.
I accept the argument that a range will cover more real-world cases than a single point, but the only real difference between Sony and MS in that regard is that Sony talked more about it, and MS almost didn't talk about it at all. And it makes sense, each company is putting their best foot forward, you don't see Sony parading their GPU or BC support around but focuses on the storage and audio solutions and while MS doesn't talk much about their storage solution while they just love talking about BC and their GPU.
There are a lot of numbers floating around regarding non-RDO BC7 compression ratio, RAD talked about it being common to be sub 10%, Richard Geldreich talked about 20%-30%, but all these numbers are too low of a ratio for Sony's numbers. So either Sony didn't use much BC7, which makes their numbers not very representative of next-gen, or they used RDO. But if you read where this whole discussion was coming from, it was me and GoFreak talking about that if Sony used RDO in their numbers or not is an unknown right now. I don't know if Sony did use RDO or not, just offering a counter to Chris 1515 who is 100000% sure they weren't and it was all just BCn textures compressed as is using Kraken.
I 100% agree.
Ooooh what a let down. Same optimization technique used for raytracing on PC. Where they also use DLSS to improve image resolution and game performance because raytracing is expensive. Shocked these optimization techniques will also be employed on console. Lol
Everything has a limitation/bottleneck.
You can just as accurately say XSX has a bottleneck being only 12 TF.
It's a flaw in the same way pretty much every thing is a flaw.
We'll see in July what XSX brings to the table - right now everything is theoretical as very little has been shown - at least there is now a known quality bar set for launch titles with PS5. I hope that people more interested in the Microsoft software ecosystem get what they want next month too.
As I said before everything ever made has a flaw. I believe PS5 had more compared to it's competition.
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