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PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
116,162
I'm a "meat and potatoes" guy and would rather just have the tools I need then be smothered with what I don't; the reason I like GoW 2018 over Ragnarok.

The concept "player expression" means nothing to me if I am constantly reminded I'm playing a game. I'll certainly play it because I like to dabble in all PS exclusives, but I don't see it topping GoT.

I would even argue the meat and potatoes of RotR's combat system is more satisfying than the "pick the right stance and you win" rock/paper/scissors setup GoT has. As I said, I got the platinum in both games. I played them both inside and out and did basically everything there was to do. But Tsushima's combat becomes rote very early on and doesn't really grow as it goes on. It's just the same fight remixed a thousand times.

Ronin on the other hand is as deep as you want to make it but if you wanna just stick to the regular katana moveset and equip three normal stances instead of branching out into polearms or oxtail blades or shinobi styles, you're empowered to do that as well and the game doesn't penalize you for it at all. You can literally play it like a tighter, more responsive, cleaner Tsushima if you want.
 

shadowman16

Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,196
Community threads have much better chance of being more balance even more so when they long running ones .
But certain threads the negativity can really get you and you can see it a coming no matter what like FF threads lol .
At that point Id just avoid them. Or maybe just make a single post. I try to avoid ones that start with "Yakuza 3 combat" but inevitably post at least once voicing my own opinion lol.
 

LastNac

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,301
I would even argue the meat and potatoes of RotR's combat system is more satisfying than the "pick the right stance and you win" rock/paper/scissors setup GoT has. As I said, I got the platinum in both games. I played them both inside and out and did basically everything there was to do. But Tsushima's combat becomes rote very early on and doesn't really grow as it goes on. It's just the same fight remixed a thousand times.

Ronin on the other hand is as deep as you want to make it but if you wanna just stick to the regular katana moveset and equip three normal stances instead of branching out into polearms or oxtail blades or shinobi styles, you're empowered to do that as well and the game doesn't penalize you for it at all. You can literally play it like a tighter, more responsive, cleaner Tsushima if you want.
One of the reasons I really liked GoT's combat was because I really enjoyed For Honor's approach to 1v1's and I remember being told then on this forum(or perhaps the old one) that kind of combat couldn't work in a single player game.
 

LastNac

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,301
Skimming through some walkthroughs, it looks like maybe there are significantly fewer deliveries required to progress going forward, so hopefully it will feel like less of a slog if I pick it back up. It would be nice to finish the story at least.
It's been really engaging so far, and as someone who hasn't played a Kojima game I can start to understand the hype around the man.
 

Rustyspider13

Shinra Employee
Member
Nov 16, 2023
754

I've avoided talking about Stellar Blade because... you know. But come on, lumping in Eve(a character designed solely for a specific, outdated purpose) with the likes of Aloy and Ellie while leaving out the likes of Kat or Rivet is a bit egregious. Great character art, of course, but one sticks out.

Anyway, I just finished Hi-Fi Rush. I see where the praise comes from. It's an audio visual feast. But as someone who sucks at rhythm games, I put the difficulty on easy and just had fun without much challenge. So I didn't get that 'flow state' some can achieve in games like these. Would I put it in my top 5 games of 2023? Nope. But I still had a really good time and found the singular nature of the game design very impressive. The devs knew exactly what they wanted to do and they did it perfectly.

The one thing I'd like to highlight with the game is something I feel MS games often lack-character. It's why, I think, Sony and Nintendo games are often more resonant to general audiences, they have characters people like. Hi-Fi Rush has it in spades. Chai, 808, Peppermint-everyone really, has style. They are easily identifiable, relatable and fun to be around. They aren't created character 101 or faceless soldier 99. I'm glad MS ported this to PS and I hope they do the same again if a sequel is made.
 

LastNac

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,301
I've avoided talking about Stellar Blade because... you know. But come on, lumping in Eve(a character designed solely for a specific, outdated purpose) with the likes of Aloy and Ellie while leaving out the likes of Kat or Rivet is a bit egregious. Great character art, of course, but one sticks out.

Anyway, I just finished Hi-Fi Rush. I see where the praise comes from. It's an audio visual feast. But as someone who sucks at rhythm games, I put the difficulty on easy and just had fun without much challenge. So I didn't get that 'flow state' some can achieve in games like these. Would I put it in my top 5 games of 2023? Nope. But I still had a really good time and found the singular nature of the game design very impressive. The devs knew exactly what they wanted to do and they did it perfectly.

The one thing I'd like to highlight with the game is something I feel MS games often lack-character. It's why, I think, Sony and Nintendo games are often more resonant to general audiences, they have characters people like. Hi-Fi Rush has it in spades. Chai, 808, Peppermint-everyone really, has style. They are easily identifiable, relatable and fun to be around. They aren't created character 101 or faceless soldier 99. I'm glad MS ported this to PS and I hope they do the same again if a sequel is made.
MS has loads of iconic characters though...
 

SolidSnakex

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,478
Combat is better than GOT, I would say production quality and story, especially the flow and characters are better in GOT as well as the open world.

I actually preferred the story in Ronin in large part due to all the political themes. Big spoilers ahead, like how it seems like a pretty easy choice to be part of the anti-shogunate movement right up until the game makes it explicitly clear that they're bigots, and a big part of their motivation is that they don't want westerners in Japan. And then suddenly things aren't so black and white.
 

game-biz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,739
I am so happy that Stellar Blade is getting such great reviews. Hopefully that translates to decent sells!
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
116,162
I actually preferred the story in Ronin in large part due to all the political themes. Big spoilers ahead, like how it seems like a pretty easy choice to be part of the anti-shogunate movement right up until the game makes it explicitly clear that they're bigots, and a big part of their motivation is that they don't want westerners in Japan. And then suddenly things aren't so black and white.

Yep. It's such an interesting story since it feels like the writers actively grappling with a problematic part of their own history, ESPECIALLY a problematic part of their own history that is regularly whitewashed by ultra-nationalists.
 

bitcloudrzr

Member
May 31, 2018
14,068
I actually preferred the story in Ronin in large part due to all the political themes. Big spoilers ahead, like how it seems like a pretty easy choice to be part of the anti-shogunate movement right up until the game makes it explicitly clear that they're bigots, and a big part of their motivation is that they don't want westerners in Japan. And then suddenly things aren't so black and white.
I went pro shogunate as much as possible, but it was an interesting way that the anti side is not portrayed just as scrappy noble rebels. There is a depth that I did not know I would get due to my unfamiliarity with their games.
 

Rustyspider13

Shinra Employee
Member
Nov 16, 2023
754
MS has loads of iconic characters though...
Sure. But they had to acquire a lot of the industry to get them. Do the general audience look at Doomslayer or Tracer or Banjo and associate them with MS? I don't think so. Apart from Master Chief, who is THE MS character, none of the others have that character=platform feeling. And the ones that do like Marcus Fenix hasn't had the spotlight in years. I feel like Sony and especially Nintendo are just way ahead in that department.
 

Eddark

Member
Oct 10, 2022
320
Two months ago I thought Rise of the Ronin would get better reception , scores , sales, etc., than Stellar Blade but here we are.

At least Word of mouth for RotR has been pretty good hope it helps to get more sales.
 

Det

Member
Jul 30, 2020
12,952
Sure. But they had to acquire a lot of the industry to get them. Do the general audience look at Doomslayer or Tracer or Banjo and associate them with MS? I don't think so. Apart from Master Chief, who is THE MS character, none of the others have that character=platform feeling. And the ones that do like Marcus Fenix hasn't had the spotlight in years. I feel like Sony and especially Nintendo are just way ahead in that department.

I mean, sure, but Nintendo is so far ahead in that category that it's effectively both PS/Xbox trying to catch up. It's also a function of time + number of relevant/reinvented entries, like Mario or Link/Zelda. Kratos is the closest in that respect but their other 'mascots' haven't had the generational time nor would I expect them to since it is hard to see entry after entry in those franchises. For the lack of of other icons in Xbox, MC does get up there as a brand associated IP, notwithstanding its current popularity slide.
 

shadowman16

Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,196
Sure. But they had to acquire a lot of the industry to get them. Do the general audience look at Doomslayer or Tracer or Banjo and associate them with MS? I don't think so. Apart from Master Chief, who is THE MS character, none of the others have that character=platform feeling. And the ones that do like Marcus Fenix hasn't had the spotlight in years. I feel like Sony and especially Nintendo are just way ahead in that department.
Very true. Doom Slayer isnt console coded to me, if anything I think him, I first think "daddy of FPS'" (yeah I know Wolfenstein and BJ...) and secondly Id probably think PC, more than Xbox.
Tracer? Again, not really seeing that character tied to a console.
Banjo? The Nintendo mascot ;) But seriously I see Banjo as an N64 character, and he actually got an Xbox exclusive game I enjoyed! But the Smash hype says it all, the hype for Banjo is over with Nintendo, so should Xbox ever do a Banjo game again, they basically should make sure its on Switch 2 or whatever if they want great sales (in my opinion).

I could go on. There's a number of COD characters that are well known but I dont think of them as console mascots, I dont think of someone like Raz (from Psychonauts) as a mascot and so on... Heck even Bethesda characters/mascots like Vault Boy feel more PC centric at best.

Xbox has Master Chief, who they keep mistreeting, rushing games, doing sub par TV projects and the like...
 

LastNac

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,301
Sure. But they had to acquire a lot of the industry to get them. Do the general audience look at Doomslayer or Tracer or Banjo and associate them with MS? I don't think so. Apart from Master Chief, who is THE MS character, none of the others have that character=platform feeling. And the ones that do like Marcus Fenix hasn't had the spotlight in years. I feel like Sony and especially Nintendo are just way ahead in that department.
Marcus has been in every Gears game though.

I have a little bit of bias having worked at 343i, so yes Chief is the big one, but that's a bad take I feel. Tons of characters can be associated with Xbox even prior to the acquisitions.

But yes in regards to sheer # of mascots you're right.
 
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Angie

Best Avatar Thread Ever!
Member
Nov 20, 2017
39,780
Kingdom of Corona
Since seems no one is going to give us any hint about the May showcase (or if is even still a thing), I'm going to use a avatar about the biggest piece of media releasing next month instead
 

Rustyspider13

Shinra Employee
Member
Nov 16, 2023
754
I mean, sure, but Nintendo is so far ahead in that category that it's effectively both PS/Xbox trying to catch up. It's also a function of time + number of relevant/reinvented entries, like Mario or Link/Zelda. Kratos is the closest in that respect but their other 'mascots' haven't had the generational time nor would I expect them to since it is hard to see entry after entry in those franchises. For the lack of of other icons in Xbox, MC does get up there as a brand associated IP, notwithstanding its current popularity slide.

Agreed that Nintendo are on a different level. That's why they can sustain their console with only first party. But Sony has done an admirable job in endearing a new cast of characters introduced after 2010 like Joel, Ellie, Aloy, Jin etc. to general audiences. They probably won't stand the test of time like Nintendo characters, but they are special to a generation of people. Xbox hasn't really tried imo.

Marcus has been in every Gears game though.

I have a little bit of bias having worked at 343i, so yes Chief is the big one, but that's a bad take I feel. Tons of characters can be associated with Xbox even prior to the acquisitions.

But yes in regards to sheer # of mascots you're right.
I meant that Marcus hasn't been at peak Gears level popularity or close to it for a long time. It's more about the quality of the games released since Gears 3 than Marcus himself. I will admit that Marcus and Dom were the last time I actually cared about MS characters. What happened with Dom and his wife was haunting to me.

I guess the point I was trying to make is that likable, distinct characters=positive perception towards games and in turn the platform it is exclusive to. Chai and crew have added that positive perception to MS lineup in 2023. I know that I thought about picking up an XSX to play as them. But now that Hi-Fi Rush has come to PS, I don't need to. From MS upcoming lineup, only Blade invokes such desires. But that is very far away.
 

LastNac

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,301
Agreed that Nintendo are on a different level. That's why they can sustain their console with only first party. But Sony has done an admirable job in endearing a new cast of characters introduced after 2010 like Joel, Ellie, Aloy, Jin etc. to general audiences. They probably won't stand the test of time like Nintendo characters, but they are special to a generation of people. Xbox hasn't really tried imo.


I meant that Marcus hasn't been at peak Gears level popularity or close to it for a long time. It's more about the quality of the games released since Gears 3 than Marcus himself. I will admit that Marcus and Dom were the last time I actually cared about MS characters. What happened with Dom and his wife was haunting to me.

I guess the point I was trying to make is that likable, distinct characters=positive perception towards games and in turn the platform it is exclusive to. Chai and crew have added that positive perception to MS lineup in 2023. I know that I thought about picking up an XSX to play as them. But now that Hi-Fi Rush has come to PS, I don't need to. From MS upcoming lineup, only Blade invokes such desires. But that is very far away.
I always liked Fable's protagonists and thought them fairly iconic but I don't want to derail this thread too much with Xbox stuff.

I have both consoles and love their lineups but that's me.
 
Jul 2, 2021
15,985

giphy.gif

I am so happy that Stellar Blade is getting such great reviews. Hopefully that translates to decent sells!
It's looking really good so far:

View: https://twitter.com/Zuby_Tech/status/1783449267236925662
 

Rustyspider13

Shinra Employee
Member
Nov 16, 2023
754
Very true. Doom Slayer isnt console coded to me, if anything I think him, I first think "daddy of FPS'" (yeah I know Wolfenstein and BJ...) and secondly Id probably think PC, more than Xbox.
Tracer? Again, not really seeing that character tied to a console.
Banjo? The Nintendo mascot ;) But seriously I see Banjo as an N64 character, and he actually got an Xbox exclusive game I enjoyed! But the Smash hype says it all, the hype for Banjo is over with Nintendo, so should Xbox ever do a Banjo game again, they basically should make sure its on Switch 2 or whatever if they want great sales (in my opinion).

I could go on. There's a number of COD characters that are well known but I dont think of them as console mascots, I dont think of someone like Raz (from Psychonauts) as a mascot and so on... Heck even Bethesda characters/mascots like Vault Boy feel more PC centric at best.

Xbox has Master Chief, who they keep mistreeting, rushing games, doing sub par TV projects and the like...
I missed this post earlier and just wanted to say thanks for making my point with more detail than I could.
I always liked Fable's protagonists and thought them fairly iconic but I don't want to derail this thread too much with Xbox stuff.

I have both consoles and love their lineups but that's me.
Agreed. Didn't mean to derail the thread.

Anyway, my original intent was to praise Hi-Fi Rush. It is a fantastic game and if anyone sucks at rhythm games like me and was wondering if they should pull the trigger, go for it! It's currently on sale on PSN as well.
 

poklane

Member
Oct 25, 2017
28,068
the Netherlands
No idea how to access it, but according to the patch notes the PlayStation App has a new feature where if you play The Last of Us Part II Remastered you can view cutscene and character bios in the app.
 

gt123

Member
Apr 2, 2021
1,527
Ragnarok is another one of those games that was mechanically deeper, but ultimately not as engaging for me.

Gameplay should be the vehicle, not the destination.
I feel like my issues with Ragnarök were the story seemed all over the place, 2018 seemed more focused. Characters, dialogue, acting were great, I just don't know if the plot did it for me as well as 2018. Gameplay was great.
 

LastNac

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,301
I feel like my issues with Ragnarök were the story seemed all over the place, 2018 seemed more focused. Characters, dialogue, acting were great, I just don't know if the plot did it for me as well as 2018. Gameplay was great.
I had some issues with the story as well, my point was Ragnarok gave me far more than I ever used. That and they took away the R2 cleave...

Still mad about that.
 

gt123

Member
Apr 2, 2021
1,527
Eh, Id rather have negativity than basically have an echo chamber where only positive opinions are welcome, and anything else is frowned upon... I get the feeling sometimes people dont want a discussion forum, just posts that validate their opinion.

That said, I feel the "its all negativitiy" is a stretch as well... just go look into most community threads, those places are almost all postitive, and welcoming. Like, I spent more time these days in the One Piece community thread because its just a great thread to read. Those positive threads are there, you probably just wont find them in the main sections of the forum lol.
I'm mostly a lurker, but I guess sometimes this thread feels less like a PlayStation fan discussion thread and more like a PlayStation investor and ad thread at times. Not saying that the business side isn't important, especially depending on what the subject is, but I think it sometimes becomes the focus more than it should. And also sometimes that it feels like brand cheerleading at times to validate a positive outlook for the brand. I'm trying to think of an example, but I think there can be a middle ground. Like people can be disappointed at the number of remakes, while also understanding why it makes complete business sense for them to exist. My opinion has probably changed over time, but I'm actually fine with remakes. Or there's things like FF7 time-exclusivity where I really don't care at all for the exclusivity because I would have got it anyways. I understand why PS as a business makes time-exclusive deals, but I don't really care as a gamer, not feeling like it's a benefit to me. I think it's a weird thing to balance because you do want the business you play on to be doing well, but also want to be openly discuss your opinions.
 

gt123

Member
Apr 2, 2021
1,527
I had some issues with the story as well, my point was Ragnarok gave me far more than I ever used. That and they took away the R2 cleave...

Still mad about that.
I see what you're saying, I guess there's always Valhalla if you wanted to experiment with all of that, but that is also DLC released way after you might have already been done with the game.
 
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