Deluxera

Member
Mar 13, 2020
2,646
Genuine question because I am not familiar with Steam but are reviews important outside of the launch window?
I understand aroud launch to see if there are issues but after the launch window and the game already being a known identity I would think most already know what the game is about and if its a good game.
I'm not that knowledgeable about the Steam ecosystem but my impressions are that :
- Games on PC/Steam sell over a long period of time, so it's better to have consistently good user reviews
- Review-bombing tends to spread if not adressed. We just saw people going after Helldivers 1, and they surely would have gone after the upcoming Ghost of Tsushima even if that game has nothing to do with it.
 

Zukkoyaki

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,530
The only lesson sony got from this is require ps account from the beggining in their next live servixe games
FWgVx8OaMAEmI1Z.jpg
 

Nzyme32

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,292
Genuine question because I am not familiar with Steam but are reviews important outside of the launch window?
I understand aroud launch to see if there are issues but after the launch window and the game already being a known identity I would think most already know what the game is about and if its a good game.

I'd say the opposite. While there are some that may not use it, Steam reviews is a huge driver on Steam for most folks, and it's often what is surfacing the big hits even quite some time after launch. So it is important for launch, but also through the life of the game.

The big difference to other review systems is that Steam's review system accounts for day to day changes of the game and how those reviews change over time. All reviews are either "recommend" or "don't recommend". Then after enough players have reviewed at launch (or Early Access), an aggregate score is determined as a percentage of "people who recommend". But there is also a "Recent Reviews" aggregate after a couple of months. This is just the aggregate of reviews in the past 30 days. It's a way to identify positive or negative changes over time.
Since it is pretty open to simple, complex, joke/meme whether serious or not, they give a lot of tools for players to quickly dig into it and see if these reviews matter to them.
There is a histogram of the life of the game and review changes over time that you can zone in on. You can view by hours the reviewers played, when they published, where they purchased from, if they refunded/received for free, what languages / locales they are in, their profile and history, previous reviews etc.
You basically have everything you need to work out what reviews you want to listen to or not. The system also compensates for "review bombing" appropriately. If it is in context of the game, it stays visible to all. If it is not related to the game or has some out of context influence, Steam flags it as "off topic" and blocks it from the aggregate, and the player can choose to investigate it, keep it in or exclude it.

So the trick here is, some games getting mixed or even negative reviews, still stay popular, either because players deem the the reviews or sentiments not relevant or passed. Steam's algo will actually hide negative review games though, so trash is pretty much invisible unless you search. Valve have a video on that for devs to understand.

I'd say overall as an open system, I really like it and use it all the time. It's also good to see reversals, like No Man Sky completely turning things around. Doom Eternal returning to positive after it's kernal anti-cheat mess similar to Helldivers - and on that occasion Bethesda even reached out to reviewers individual to inform them of the reversal and request they reconsider. Importantly, I'd say on aggregate regardless of quality of reviews, when the cohort is above a few 1000s, the data seems pretty representative of what to expect from the game, so I use it frequently.
 

Tommi813

Member
Jul 19, 2020
201
I'm expecting that to get an outrage too, Legends will probably get a pass since I doubt many will play it, but another day and date big MP game will be the real test.
That's why they have handled it better know. when every release gonna get an outrage... Even if PSN is implemented day 1… oh my
 

Portodutch

Member
Feb 17, 2021
7,275
I'd say the opposite. While there are some that may not use it, Steam reviews is a huge driver on Steam for most folks, and it's often what is surfacing the big hits even quite some time after launch. So it is important for launch, but also through the life of the game.

The big difference to other review systems is that Steam's review system accounts for day to day changes of the game and how those reviews change over time. All reviews are either "recommend" or "don't recommend". Then after enough players have reviewed at launch (or Early Access), an aggregate score is determined as a percentage of "people who recommend". But there is also a "Recent Reviews" aggregate after a couple of months. This is just the aggregate of reviews in the past 30 days. It's a way to identify positive or negative changes over time.
Since it is pretty open to simple, complex, joke/meme whether serious or not, they give a lot of tools for players to quickly dig into it and see if these reviews matter to them.
There is a histogram of the life of the game and review changes over time that you can zone in on. You can view by hours the reviewers played, when they published, where they purchased from, if they refunded/received for free, what languages / locales they are in, their profile and history, previous reviews etc.
You basically have everything you need to work out what reviews you want to listen to or not. The system also compensates for "review bombing" appropriately. If it is in context of the game, it stays visible to all. If it is not related to the game or has some out of context influence, Steam flags it as "off topic" and blocks it from the aggregate, and the player can choose to investigate it, keep it in or exclude it.

So the trick here is, some games getting mixed or even negative reviews, still stay popular, either because players deem the the reviews or sentiments not relevant or passed. Steam's algo will actually hide negative review games though, so trash is pretty much invisible unless you search. Valve have a video on that for devs to understand.

I'd say overall as an open system, I really like it and use it all the time. It's also good to see reversals, like No Man Sky completely turning things around. Doom Eternal returning to positive after it's kernal anti-cheat mess similar to Helldivers - and on that occasion Bethesda even reached out to reviewers individual to inform them of the reversal and request they reconsider. Importantly, I'd say on aggregate regardless of quality of reviews, when the cohort is above a few 1000s, the data seems pretty representative of what to expect from the game, so I use it frequently.

Thanks for the detailed explanation, that makes allot of sense
 

TalonJH

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,935
Louisville, KY
IDK, I feel like this was probably a mistake in the long run. They should have kept the requirements while delaying the requirement for people in locations where PSN isn't available. Then get a solution in place ASAP. Now they are just going to get pushback on every game(from people that just don't want to create an account) and have less incentive to prioritize bringing more games to PC. It doesn't really matter to me personally. Just a thought. As for HD2 specifically, I just hope we'll get cross progression sometime soon. I own the game on both platforms but I'd love to be able to play on PS, then pick up on my Legion Go. I also would like it if my login worked similar to GoT where I can still earn trophies.
 

B.O.O.M.

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,816
They should have kept it so the toxic whiny crowd leaves (and refund those from unsupported regions as they have a legit concern regarding the TOS, even if the liklihood of a tos being enforced on that was veeeery unlikely).

But nope.

Anyways, since Angie is banned Sony just pushed the showcase to July.
 

Vito

One Winged Slayer - Formerly Undead Fantasy
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,300
They should have kept it so the toxic whiny crowd leaves (and refund those from unsupported regions as they have a legit concern regarding the TOS, even if the liklihood of a tos being enforced on that was veeeery unlikely).

But nope.

Anyways, since Angie is banned Sony just pushed the showcase to July.
Why did she get banned?
 

Suntzupp

Member
Mar 26, 2022
2,598
They should have kept it so the toxic whiny crowd leaves (and refund those from unsupported regions as they have a legit concern regarding the TOS, even if the liklihood of a tos being enforced on that was veeeery unlikely).

But nope.

Anyways, since Angie is banned Sony just pushed the showcase to July.
One thing I don't understand is that Steam was also giving refunds for those who are in US and played 100+ hours. So lame
 

Josh5890

I'm Your Favorite Poster's Favorite Poster
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
23,556
So did my thread title work? Was democracy preserved or did we reach anarchy over the weekend?
 

PSES

Member
Apr 1, 2022
816
I still wonder if with Microsoft's possible multiplatform approach, we'll end up seeing games like Redfall and Starfield on PS5 sooner or later
 

sha1ashaska22

Member
Sep 4, 2020
518
Wil be interesting to see how quickly they can roll out global PSN eligibility. The suggestion from some that they need a legal team, etc in every country is definitely not the case. Roll it out like other devs where you can sign up in any country, even if you restrict the PS store in those regions still.

That is clearly a non-negotiable next step, but if they get PSN in order before Marathon/Fairgame$ then it will obviously be gamers doing chud stuff causing the next inevitable meltdown.

Also, yea every company I've ever worked for would have fired that CM immediately. Somehow dude fucked around and didn't find out.
 

Super

Studied the Buster Sword
Member
Jan 29, 2022
7,088
Elsewhere, the PlayStation 5 Pro's GPU evolves to include DirectX12 Ultimate features that were omitted from the original console - so, hardware support for variable rate shading is included, along with extra features for hybrid MSAA. The primitive shader features found in RDNA 1 and the vanilla PS5 are augmented with full support for mesh shaders, which should hopefully see more widespread adoption of a very useful feature. Sony points out how the stricter requirements of this feature up against PC APIs are no longer an issue.

Stepping back from the specifics, it's still surprising to me that a 67 percent increase in compute units only translates to around 45 percent of extra performance, but similar to PS4 Pro vs PS4, increased compute does not scale in a linear fashion with increased game performance. Memory bandwidth only scales by around 29 percent from PS5 to Pro, for example. I think we'll need to look at the Pro more holistically, judged by its actual results, and PSSR upscaling could be just as transformative for Sony as it has been for Nvidia DLSS.


www.eurogamer.net

DF Weekly: New PS5 Pro GPU details emerge - including a 2.35GHz max boost clock

Digital Foundry has new details on the PS5 Pro GPU - including its maximum boost clock and new features.
 

Ariakon44

Prophet of Truth
Member
Nov 17, 2020
10,285
I still wonder if with Microsoft's possible multiplatform approach, we'll end up seeing games like Redfall and Starfield on PS5 sooner or later

Redfall I doubt, Starfield is more interesting...I would expect newer games to maybe roll out first though. ID Software's next one, Indy, things like that.
 

retrogamer397

Member
Oct 22, 2018
503
I'm expecting that to get an outrage too, Legends will probably get a pass since I doubt many will play it, but another day and date big MP game will be the real test.

Sony should anticipate this and close all legal, regional and communication loopholes for PSN signups in time for Concord's release. And if Steam players bitch and whine, Sony should do their speciality move - I.e do absolutely nothing!

Would also be interesting if Concord is legitimately good so that PC players have little choice if they want to jump on the next big thing.
 

BreakAtmo

Member
Nov 12, 2017
12,981
Australia

Josh5890

I'm Your Favorite Poster's Favorite Poster
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
23,556
Redfall I doubt, Starfield is more interesting...I would expect newer games to maybe roll out first though. ID Software's next one, Indy, things like that.

I don't think Microsoft is going to push for day 1 ports for a while (besides the usual stuff like COD). Microsoft will probably want to show some illusion of exclusivity for a while longer. Stuff like Indy will probably be Xbox console exclusive for at least a year or so.

Starfield is a prime candidate for holiday 2024 though.
 

crimmy88

Member
Aug 7, 2023
274
Sony should anticipate this and close all legal, regional and communication loopholes for PSN signups in time for Concord's release. And if Steam players bitch and whine, Sony should do their speciality move - I.e do absolutely nothing!

Would also be interesting if Concord is legitimately good so that PC players have little choice if they want to jump on the next big thing.

I hope Sony makes a way for profiles of users from non psn regions be made official. Id hate to lose my games and trophies just because of this - this js unlikely, but who knows with Sony. Lol
 

DontHateTheBacon

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,639
Sony should anticipate this and close all legal, regional and communication loopholes for PSN signups in time for Concord's release. And if Steam players bitch and whine, Sony should do their speciality move - I.e do absolutely nothing!

Would also be interesting if Concord is legitimately good so that PC players have little choice if they want to jump on the next big thing.
This is 1000% correct. They need to head this off now. There's no reason to run into this same problem again down the line. Figure out what you need to do to either make this work or communicate the expectation BEFORE launch of your next major game and go forward from there.

Either way, none of the back and forth like this time. Changing midstream usually just leaves a lot of people spouting misinformation and angry.
 
Dec 6, 2023
583
was thinking of picking up Sea of Thieves on PS5 but apparently that game requires a Microsoft login... not touching that with a 10ft pole in this case, yuck
 

Nixius

Member
Feb 20, 2024
292
Sony should anticipate this and close all legal, regional and communication loopholes for PSN signups in time for Concord's release. And if Steam players bitch and whine, Sony should do their speciality move - I.e do absolutely nothing!

Would also be interesting if Concord is legitimately good so that PC players have little choice if they want to jump on the next big thing.
Do we know if Concord is B2P? I think it's gonna have an uphill battle if that's the case, most big MP successes are F2P unless you're CoD (and Helldivers), I think the smart choice would be to make it F2P and go hard on cosmetic MTX.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
117,132
Do we know if Concord is B2P? I think it's gonna have an uphill battle if that's the case, most big MP successes are F2P unless you're CoD (and Helldivers), I think the smart choice would be to make it F2P and go hard on cosmetic MTX.

We know literally nothing about Concord. It's basically just a title.
 

Naicore

Member
Aug 30, 2021
294
Wil be interesting to see how quickly they can roll out global PSN eligibility. The suggestion from some that they need a legal team, etc in every country is definitely not the case. Roll it out like other devs where you can sign up in any country, even if you restrict the PS store in those regions still.

That is clearly a non-negotiable next step, but if they get PSN in order before Marathon/Fairgame$ then it will obviously be gamers doing chud stuff causing the next inevitable meltdown.

Also, yea every company I've ever worked for would have fired that CM immediately. Somehow dude fucked around and didn't find out.

Just have a PSN lite that you can sign up for initially. Just name and email. Roll it out for all countries (problem is that Steam uses self-governed and autonomous regions separate from the main country). Then when a person wants to make a full PSN profil they can upgrade the one they have.
 

JohnnyToonami

Member
Dec 16, 2018
5,522
Earth
was thinking of picking up Sea of Thieves on PS5 but apparently that game requires a Microsoft login... not touching that with a 10ft pole in this case, yuck
Very funny that this didn't cause an uproar nor does having to use a Microsoft account for MS games on Steam.

(I actually don't care at all and will happily use my old Gamertag on these but I can never remember my old hotmail account password lol)
 

retrogamer397

Member
Oct 22, 2018
503
Do we know if Concord is B2P? I think it's gonna have an uphill battle if that's the case, most big MP successes are F2P unless you're CoD (and Helldivers), I think the smart choice would be to make it F2P and go hard on cosmetic MTX.

No idea as of now. But I'd be highly surprised if Firewalk and SIE are not taking careful notes on Helldiver's success (and blunders).

I'd think there is a good chance Concord could be F2P. I think we know that it's PVP, hero-shooter based and somewhat inspired by Guardians of the Galaxy from rumors. Might take this with a grain of salt tho.
 
Jul 2, 2021
16,358

View: https://twitter.com/SonySantaMonica/status/1787497766026899658
They seem proud.

Weaponizing an already toxic fanbase wont end up well
They should fire that guy, you cant say something like that and be proud that you got away with It

Every time I see something about this situation I am more convinced that Arrowhead is to blame, and they are presenting thmselves as "the good guys".
If you're not happy about Sony's decision or how Pilestedt and his community manager behaved and handled this situation go contact the PS Support and request a refund for Helldivers. One of my online buddies did it a few ours ago and the support approved it. Lol.
 

WinFonda

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,473
USA
Just have a PSN lite that you can sign up for initially. Just name and email. Roll it out for all countries (problem is that Steam uses self-governed and autonomous regions separate from the main country). Then when a person wants to make a full PSN profil they can upgrade the one they have.
I don't think this even necessary, or all that complicated. It's fine for PSN to not officially operate countries, as long as the storefront (in this case steam) is properly reflecting that PSN linking is required for online play, and/or simply not allowing the sale of the game in those countries if the game is online only. The confliction with HD2 came from the fact the game was intended to have a PSN link but was disabled to ease technical issues, and when they wanted to reenable it, the game had already been sold in countries where PSN was not officially supported. Unofficially this actually isn't even really an issue. People can create PSN accounts outside their region and still play. Officially it's an issue because it gives purchasers, or in this case Steam, a cause for refund. And refunds that allow people to play for 2.5 months and hundreds of hours can basically be abused at that point. But I think the fundamental issue that arose here with HD2 won't happen again, and Sony will probably work closely with Valve to make sure of that.