SirKai

Member
Dec 28, 2017
7,627
Washington
The CEO of Arrowhead is responsible for this

I can't believe this narrative is still being run.

He made the call to make the game as functional as possible during its launch. He did the right thing for literally everyone involved (especially Sony, since any added inhibition to the game's playability could have easily stifled its explosive popularity/growth).
 

vixolus

Prophet of Truth
Member
Sep 22, 2020
56,624
Wait what? But I thought Arrowhead were fighting Sony on this? Was just just BS?
They made the agreement to enforce signing in with a PSN account. Then the game blew up. He made the decision to roll back that temporarily to sustain the servers. He admitted it on Twitter. The buck stops with him.

Had the psn sign in worked since day 1 this wouldn't have been a major issue.

I can't believe this narrative is still being run.

He made the call to make the game as functional as possible during its launch. He did the right thing for literally everyone involved (especially Sony, since any added inhibition to the game's playability could have easily stifled its explosive popularity/growth).
The fuck do you mean "narrative" lmao it's literally verbatim what happened. He did do the right thing for the health of the game at the time. It doesn't change the fact it's his decision.
 

MimosaSTG

Member
Jun 7, 2022
1,417
If you left a negative review specifically over this move it makes sense to at least remove/neutralize the rating due to the rollback. Doesnt need to become positive. Who gives a shit anyway nobody reads steam reviews

What? I read reviews on every single game I am about to purchase just to see if there are any people experiencing performance issues.
 

EvaUnit787

Member
Aug 6, 2023
1,367
Raise the price in the US so that those that refunded have to pay in full. I actually find it very scummy some people not affected by this asked for refunds when they had dozens/hundreds of hour of play time.
 

SirKai

Member
Dec 28, 2017
7,627
Washington
The fuck do you mean "narrative" lmao it's literally verbatim what happened. He did do the right thing for the health of the game at the time. It doesn't change the fact it's his decision.

The "narrative" is that this mess is his fault. It's not. It's 100%, without any compromise or ambiguity, Sony's fault for trying to force a square peg (a globally available game) into a round hole (a hilariously archaic and out of touch forced account system not available in most countries). This would have still be an issue on week one with folks in non-PSN regions confused as fuck about why they were sold a game that's actually incompatible with their region.
 

crimmy88

Member
Aug 7, 2023
277
The "narrative" is that this mess is his fault. It's not. It's 100%, without any compromise or ambiguity, Sony's fault for trying to force a square peg (a globally available game) into a round hole (a hilariously archaic and out of touch forced account system not available in most countries). This would have still be an issue on week one with folks in non-PSN regions confused as fuck about why they were sold a game that's actually incompatible with their region.

Realistically speaking, the only reason the non-psn region issue was only brought up was because of gamer rage on subscribing to another service after X months. If PSN was implemented on day 1 like intended, I dont think it would have been blown up this big because users from non-psn regions are, unfortunate as it is, used to circumvent regional restrictions.

With the HD2 issue now resolved, im curious how many of the people from supported regions who are mad at sony will continue to fight for better support for non-psn regions - at least until ghost releases.
 

MimosaSTG

Member
Jun 7, 2022
1,417
People are doing a great job about updating their reviews after the walk-back.

It has climbed for 15% to 48% in a matter of hours.
 

Fisty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,470
Around 200,000 people left a negative review over the course of the weekend. The total playerbase of the game is quite large, but your phrasing here is vastly underselling the number of people who were agrevied by the change. While games have suffered from review bombs many times over the years, I don't think there's been any comparable examples of so many people acting so quickly to share their displeasure.

Arrowhead guy already said the overwhelming majority already linked their PSN account and the game has sold like 10 million copies
 

Shoichi

Member
Jan 10, 2018
10,582
Once the game was lenient on requiring the PSN account with the launch issues. It should have become optional going forward for HD2. Especially as people were likely joining from regions not officially supported for PSN and if they were ones that didn't want to be breaking TOS, even if it's stated as "safe" to many that it can be done, they were left on the wayside with their only options being to try and refund and Valve approve the refund or have the game but no access to play it legitimately. It was a big hyped game during the beginning days/weeks and not everyone reads anything besides "Add to Cart" or watching the trailers/looking at screenshots of the game in the store page, maybe with watching an occasional streamer stream it as well. So there's probably a decent number of people who missed the PSN account subtext.

When it comes to other games that get released using PSN (multiplayer) services. It should be like For Honor and any game that uses another service for a multiplayer based game (Ubisoft, etc) on Steam and won't let you start the game/mode without the account being logged in.
 
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SirKai

Member
Dec 28, 2017
7,627
Washington
Realistically speaking, the only reason the non-psn region issue was only brought up was because of gamer rage on subscribing to another service after X months. If PSN was implemented on day 1 like intended, I dont think it would have been blown up this big because users from non-psn regions are, unfortunate as it is, used to circumvent regional restrictions.

With the HD2 issue now resolved, im curious how many of the people from supported regions who are mad at sony will continue to fight for better support for non-psn regions - at least until ghost releases.

Hopefully many of them, because that was the lightning rod that turned this whole thing into a supernova, especially once the game was delisted from so many countries on Steam.

However, I disagree with your first point; folks on PS console in a lot countries are used to this, but people on Steam might not be, or at least they might not have to expect to deal with it in such a blatantly dishonest way (ie, lying about where you live, provide a fake address, etc) for one of the biggest entertainment companies on earth. This still would have kicked up a ton of dust if it was required in the weeks after launch.
 

Saucycarpdog

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,696
Raise the price in the US so that those that refunded have to pay in full. I actually find it very scummy some people not affected by this asked for refunds when they had dozens/hundreds of hour of play time.
Nah. People were going to lose access to something they paid for just so Sony could pump up MAU numbers.

Steam was right to extend the refund window. And if those people want to buy the game again cause they no longer will lose access, then that's money going to the devs.

Quit with your pettiness.
 

GhostTrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,514
Raise the price in the US so that those that refunded have to pay in full. I actually find it very scummy some people not affected by this asked for refunds when they had dozens/hundreds of hour of play time.


If they were granted refunds, that means they were justified to ask for it.
Don't worry, Sony's next quarter report will be fine. They'll still make a lot of profits.
 

crimmy88

Member
Aug 7, 2023
277
Hopefully many of them, because that was the lightning rod that turned this whole thing into a supernova, especially once the game was delisted from so many countries on Steam.

However, I disagree with your first point; folks on PS console in a lot countries are used to this, but people on Steam might not be, or at least they might not have to expect to deal with it in such a blatantly dishonest way (ie, lying about where you live, provide a fake address, etc) for one of the biggest entertainment companies on earth. This still would have kicked up a ton of dust if it was required in the weeks after launch.

The cynic in me says people would just go back to normal because they got what they wanted. I really felt the discussion around this issue was disingenious - perhaps thats just because the loudest talking heads are from supported PSN regions.

Ah, you make a good point. My perspective was too zoomed in from my own point of view as a PS enjoyer in an unsupported region.
 

Toiletduck

Member
Dec 10, 2017
1,388
Sony should publish a blog post later this week with more info/context on this decision as a way to update the community. Also an opportunity to share what they've learned from the PC Gaming community since they've gotten involved in the space.

All this with a free skin/perk items to claim for free and a 20% discount on the game.

Spread this info out via their social media channels. They'll build a new audience and good will from the current community (and this should help reverse some of the recent bad reviews).

This could be a PR opportunity for them if they are willing to explain their mistakes and give back at the same time. Could increase the game's popularity even more. A potential win win if they play their cards right.

Food for thought. :)
 
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Oct 25, 2017
9,545
You can see on the forums people preparing to do the same to Ghost of Tsushima because it has a PSN requirement also.

If GoT is big controversy I think there needs to be clarification on why people are mad because PSN is only required for the overlay and for the multiplayer mode. You can play the main game which is what 98% of people are buying it for without it, and the requirement is there at launch.
 

Kyougar

Cute Animal Whisperer
Member
Nov 3, 2017
9,431
Realistically speaking, the only reason the non-psn region issue was only brought up was because of gamer rage on subscribing to another service after X months. If PSN was implemented on day 1 like intended, I dont think it would have been blown up this big because users from non-psn regions are, unfortunate as it is, used to circumvent regional restrictions.

Sony is the only major Publisher that DOESN'T have a global account system.
Why would PC gamers be used to circumvent regional restrictions when Sony is the only one with such an archaic system?

Rather the opposite is true. Western gamers are used to circumvent regional restrictions to pay less for games on cheaper regional storefronts.
 

Pixieking

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,987
Realistically speaking, the only reason the non-psn region issue was only brought up was because of gamer rage on subscribing to another service after X months. If PSN was implemented on day 1 like intended, I dont think it would have been blown up this big because users from non-psn regions are, unfortunate as it is, used to circumvent regional restrictions.

Not everyone on Steam has a PSN account.

Tell me how

users from non-psn regions are, unfortunate as it is, used to circumvent regional restrictions.

When they've never done it before? Whether now or on Day 1, Sony was asking people who never had a PSN account to create one in countries it wasn't possible to.
 

crimmy88

Member
Aug 7, 2023
277
Sony is the only major Publisher that DOESN'T have a global account system.
Why would PC gamers be used to circumvent regional restrictions when Sony is the only one with such an archaic system?

Rather the opposite is true. Western gamers are used to circumvent regional restrictions to pay less for games on cheaper regional storefronts.

From Sony's perspective, I think the only reasonable conclusion was that they did not expect the restrictions to be a big deal - like how it is for their console player base. They were complacent with their own system. Silly as it may, but business-wise, that conclusion seems to make the most sense - atleast to me.
 

grtn

Member
Apr 7, 2024
30
From Sony's perspective, I think the only reasonable conclusion was that they did not expect the restrictions to be a big deal - like how it is for their console player base. They were complacent with their own system. Silly as it may, but business-wise, that conclusion seems to make the most sense - atleast to me.
It is also easier for Sony to ignore the written account restrictions within the Playstation ecosystem that they fully control then it is to get Valve to ignore the same written limitations on behalf of Sony (especially while a controversy over the issue is ongoing).
 

SilkySm00th

Member
Oct 31, 2017
4,853
what a pointless shitstorm on both sides.

And it's definitely on fuckin Sony for releasing the game on PC/steam when that "technically" was never going to be feasible in certain countries. What it they hadn't had to cut the linking at launch for whatever reason? People would have been buying it in those regions and then found they just couldn't play on day 1? like what?
Fucking stupid shit.
 

LordFlash

Member
Mar 24, 2023
890
Raise the price in the US so that those that refunded have to pay in full. I actually find it very scummy some people not affected by this asked for refunds when they had dozens/hundreds of hour of play time.

I swear to god, this is the only hobby where consumers push back against their own interests to bootlick corporations.
 

andshrew

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,988
From Sony's perspective, I think the only reasonable conclusion was that they did not expect the restrictions to be a big deal - like how it is for their console player base. They were complacent with their own system. Silly as it may, but business-wise, that conclusion seems to make the most sense - atleast to me.

It honestly wouldn't surprise me if everyone involved was ignorant of the regional restrictions PSN has. Arrowhead certainly were, and if the PlayStation PC venture is led by a US-centric team I could see them being unaware of issues like this (or equally, unaware that the game was being sold in non-PSN regions on Steam).

Sony has to come up for a solution to this now before they will be able to mandate PSN as a requirement on PC; if they don't it is going to be brought up that they are excluding all of these regions of players every single time they try to do it again in future.
 

Chumunga64

Member
Jun 22, 2018
14,525
And this is why games will never be "art" its always been a commodity.

The problem with this take is thinking this action was purely altruistic, it will always be weaponized to any idea not in the white cis wheelhouse.

You cant just bully artists into doing things you like. Sony absolutely fucked up by pushing a release early and basically removing access to this game by requiring it. The order of operations was wrong and forced them into this outcome. Which is great for the consumers.
what the fuck are you going on about
 

MimosaSTG

Member
Jun 7, 2022
1,417
Raise the price in the US so that those that refunded have to pay in full. I actually find it very scummy some people not affected by this asked for refunds when they had dozens/hundreds of hour of play time.

Stop defending corporations and their scummy practices. What is wrong with you and everyone else criticizing those who are supporting people who were going to lose access to their game because of this?

I have nothing against creating an account. I've got so many accounts that it just doesn't matter anymore. But when it comes to people losing access for something they paid for because of not creating said account... Yeah, I'll support people on that front even if I'm not affected by it.
 

Kaitos

Tens across the board!
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
14,815
It honestly wouldn't surprise me if everyone involved was ignorant of the regional restrictions PSN has. Arrowhead certainly were, and if the PlayStation PC venture is led by a US-centric team I could see them being unaware of issues like this (or equally, unaware that the game was being sold in non-PSN regions on Steam).

Sony has to come up for a solution to this now before they will be able to mandate PSN as a requirement on PC; if they don't it is going to be brought up that they are excluding all of these regions of players every single time they try to do it again in future.

I don't have a gaming PC, but it doesn't seem like Sony is that prolific in day and date PC releases? And not ones with crossplay that are inherently a multiplayer experience? Which means you'd hope they'd do their full due diligence on the effect of such a move, which, uh, where was that?

This seems like a real failure of imagination. Like, yes, Sony is a corporation and their ultimate goal is to turn a profit and increase shareholder value, capitalism etc etc. But this was a very shortsighted decision that didn't actually do anything to achieve that goal because it alienated consumers, especially in places where PSN isn't available. Even if you want to operate from a position that Sony's decisions should only be driven by profit, this was a bad decision!
 

Starwing

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 31, 2018
4,142
So um.......when are they gonna actually make the game purchasable in those countries again?
According to these posts they're working on it, might be a short while, though:
Seems like they're working on it. One of the community managers said that in discord

One of their community managers said as much, "they weren't going to force people to pick between breaking ToS and not playing" so I'd assume going forward unless they do something those countries it will be optional and only mandatory where PSN is supported.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,840
The "narrative" is that this mess is his fault. It's not. It's 100%, without any compromise or ambiguity, Sony's fault for trying to force a square peg (a globally available game) into a round hole (a hilariously archaic and out of touch forced account system not available in most countries). This would have still be an issue on week one with folks in non-PSN regions confused as fuck about why they were sold a game that's actually incompatible with their region.

The CEO literally tweeted that he was at fault. He said it was his decision to disable the link temporarily and did not adequately communicate that it would be brought back. You're the one spinning a narrative here.
 

thepenguin55

Member
Oct 28, 2017
11,951
Not everyone on Steam has a PSN account.

Tell me how



When they've never done it before? Whether now or on Day 1, Sony was asking people who never had a PSN account to create one in countries it wasn't possible to.
Well if it was implemented day one, then presumably the game just would not have been sold in those territories from day one. I fully believe the reason there was a backpedaling here is because they didnt from day 1 think to restrict availability of this game in territories where PSN isn't available. Had they thought to do that then this update likely drops unabated and there probably isn't the same level of blowback to all this. There's a difference between allowing people to buy a thing only to arbitrarily taking it away months later and never selling a thing in a territory from day one. Selling a thing only to take it away is going to generate significantly more outrage than never selling a thing somewhere would.

Hopefully the thing that comes of this is Sony making the account linking stuff optional optional going forward.