Oct 25, 2017
1,073
As the Taliban blitz across Afghanistan and U.S. officials scramble to assess just how quickly the government in Kabul could fall, President Joe Biden is recalibrating his message to Americans.


Where he once insisted that two decades of U.S. backing had left Afghan forces capable of defending themselves, Biden and his aides have shifted to a more cold-blooded mantra: If they can't, that's not our problem.

Inside the administration, top aides are just trying to keep up with the rapidly changing battlefield. U.S. officials now believe Kabul could be surrounded or fall under Taliban control within weeks, and even the future of the fortress-like U.S. Embassy is increasingly in doubt.



The president, meanwhile, is holding firm to last spring's decision to withdraw U.S. combat troops, calculating that war-weary voters would rather tune out the alarming developments in a conflict they've largely ignored.
"I do not regret my decision," Biden told reporters Tuesday, after pointing out that the U.S. has spent more than a trillion dollars and lost thousands of its own troops to train and equip Afghanistan's military.
"Afghan leaders have to come together," he said. "They've got to fight for themselves, fight for their nation."


"No one should pretend they're surprised the Taliban is winning now that we abandoned our Afghan partners," Republican Sen. Ben Sasse of Nebraska said in a statement. "No one should pretend to be surprised when girls and women are brutalized. And no one should pretend to be surprised when the Taliban yet again provides safe harbor to terrorists plotting international attacks."


Some of the latest reports say the Taliban control 65 percent of Afghan territory already. The Islamist militia, whose oppressive, misogynistic rule in the 1990s is still fresh in the minds of many Afghans, has recently captured several provincial capitals.


Those cities include Kunduz, a prize that tightened the Taliban's grip on Afghanistan's north. The militants have traditionally had their power base in the south, and their northern advances have alarmed Afghan leaders.


Videos posted online Wednesday showed Taliban fighters driving captured Humvees through Kunduz and posing next to an Mi-24 helicopter gunship at the airfield there after hundreds of Afghan troops fled, in another embarrassing blow for the government.


A new U.S. military assessment says the national capital, Kabul, could fall to the Taliban in as quickly as a month, a person familiar with the intelligence told POLITICO. The person added that capturing the whole city could take longer, six months or more, and that the situation is "fluid."


Details of the assessment, which included analysis from multiple military and intelligence units, were first reported by The Washington Post.


According to three people knowledgeable about the situation, internal administration discussions have broached evacuating the U.S. Embassy in Kabul as a possibility; one person said the mission could be emptied by the end of this month.
www.politico.com

Biden on Afghanistan: Not my problem

The president is unwilling to rethink his decision to withdraw U.S. troops, even as Afghanistan unravels faster than expected.
 

kmfdmpig

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
19,740
It has been 20 years. The government has shown a disinterest or inability to build up any sort of capable military of their own. Either the US would have to stay there forever or else this would be the inevitable result.
 

Tlozbj

Banned
Jun 26, 2020
608
Puerto Rico
Sensationalist title aside, that is no surprise. Biden will obviously not reverse such a big decision like finally pulling out of Afghanistan, specially as US returning will not change much. Even after 20 years of US and NATO presence, the Taliban continued to advance and gain power, more years of US presence was not going to change that. At best, it could had delayed the takeover of Afghanistan by the Taliban by some years, but at the end, it would had still happened. The current administration simply ripped the band-aid off and decided to let the inevitable happen.
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,766
Often find Yglesias to be pretty annoying on Twitter, but hard agreed with this;



We've been in Afghanistan for 20 years. We either don't have the capacity, outside of a permanent occupation, to keep the Taliban at bay or are just decades-long failures at it. Either way this is not something we can do and have proven that.
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
43,534
Good. It's been 20 years. Kabul government has had 2 decades to get their shit together. Not our problem anymore.
 

Selbran

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,582
Often find Yglesias to be pretty annoying on Twitter, but hard agreed with this;



We've been in Afghanistan for 20 years. We either don't have the capacity, outside of a permanent occupation, to keep the Taliban at bay or are just decades-long failures at it. Either way this is not something we can do and have proven that.

I saw the same tweet and agreed with it as well. It sucks because the Taliban is horrible, but the government has to stand up to them and not expect the US to sit there for decades as a deterrent regardless if the locals want them there or not.
 

Strike

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,722
We came to this conclusion a long time ago. We basically went in there with no plan. There was no way we were going to ever turn this around.
 

mbpm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,362
It's our fault in multiple ways, but we also have not shown capacity to improve the situation apparently
 

pargonta

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,904
North Carolina
edit. central NC local news just said 3-4 thousand troops going back to secure things from fort Bragg. definitely an active situation.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
12,429
Honestly, not to be callous, is he wrong here? We have been in Afghanistan for all of my adult life. I don't see how this situation would change at all unless we just stayed there forever.

Looking at the tweet above and that is basically my feeling. We have provided continual and exceptionally costly support, training. If the 'gains' that were made over the years are so readily lost, then what is the point of staying? I recall an article that basically said the Taliban was trying to 'slow down' their advancements so they didn't embarrass the United States, not sure if that is true or not...but they are advancing damned quickly.

I was listening to NPR the other day and someone on was asked what would be needed to change things and prevent these advances we are seeing: US ground support and US air support would be needed to allow for Afghanistan 'independence' (or something of that nature). If we are continually providing air/ground support then you aren't independent. Its a horrible situation all around.
 
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CrunchyB

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,137
Prolonged occupation was a mistake to begin with. Staying forever is also not an option, so leaving as soon as possible to cut your losses makes sense.

It's a massive failure in both lives and expenses but at least it's over for the USA.
 

OfficerRob

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,195
The band-aid had to be ripped off. Two decades of time did nothing to build them up for American military departure, so unless they were just going to stay there forever, what the hell were the alternatives?
 

Casa

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,813
Honestly, not to be callous, is he wrong here? We have been in Afghanistan for all of my adult life. I don't see how this situation would change at all unless we just stayed their forever.
Biden is doing too well and hasn't had a scandal yet. The media is desperate to pin something on him to create a narrative.
 

Nassudan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,378
I feel for those who will be oppressed under the Taliban, but we just can't keep doing this. We've been there since i was in middle school and I'm 32 now. Staying isn't the answer.
 

Falcon511

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,195
It isnt anymore. We cant be there for another 20 years hoping the Government or military get their act together.


I dont know much about the Taliban. How bad will it get in Afghanistan?
 

KillLaCam

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,427
Seoul
He's right though. The US failed for over 20 years. It was never gonna end. Are they supposed to go back in ?
 
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NeoBob688

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,696
It is insane that Kabul might begin to fall within weeks.

One thing I am wondering is that the number of US troops over the last few years has not been massive, a modest detachment seemingly had managed to keep the Taliban at bay. Could they just have kept a minimal troop level to discourage the Taliban on a permanent basis. Potentially multiple nations coming together to keep troops contributions per each country at a manageable level.
 

psynergyadept

Shinra Employee
Member
Oct 26, 2017
16,011
It's a damned if you do damned if you don't situation; no one wants a large military presence but we don't want the Talkban to run rampant either. My uninformed take is that in the ~20 years we were there we should've trained and supplied ally forces better (maybe I wrong here) I was watching a NBC nightly news report how the us army just cut all the power and comms from the main headquarters and just left it abandoned really dampening the allies moral in the process.
 

Mezentine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,032
The US is responsible for Afghanistan, but I honestly don't know what would work at this point. Military presence clearly did not. Cash for rebuilding would get instantly misappropriated

The US should have an open door refugee policy for Afghanis period. I don't know what else can be done
 

Commedieu

Banned
Nov 11, 2017
15,025
User Banned (2 Months): Antisemitic Rhetoric; Prior Severe Bans for Advocating Fraud and Violence
Disappointing to see, but we knew it was coming and quick. I hope they bring over anyone that wants to come over.

its americas stance, another Israel enemy toppled over. Its bigger than the president.

Yeah, no, it will certainly not be a progressive nation lol. The Taliban *are* the violent extremists.

Yep, so violent that they're meeting with china.

www.aljazeera.com

Chinese officials and Taliban meet, in sign of warming ties

Meeting in Chinese city of Tianjin comes as US-led foreign forces continue pulling out of Afghanistan.

Goal is some sort of taliban/afghan state. Which im sure Chinas $$$$ will likely deliver. I mean, I imagined they'd spit in the face of china and go ahead with their jihad, but apparently that isn't the case. Even during our USA press conferences, they're referring to the taliban like its a body of government.

We just wasted a ton of lives for something that seemingly had a diplomatic solution. Ugly as it may be, the alternative is forever occupation which no one wants. And its not like we're not BFF"s with israel/saudi arabia. SO there is a level of tolerance we have for horrors.
 

gdt

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,656
That is a shitty title damn.

It's tragic, but ain't nothing to do. We'd need to occupy it into a territory or some shit. Brutalize insurgents the whole thing. There is no interest in that. It's over.

Let the Taliban try their hand at ruling Afghanistan. Or China can take their turn.
 

Selbran

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,582
It's a damned if you do damned if you don't situation; no one wants a large military presence but we don't want the Talkban to run rampant either. My uninformed take is that in the ~20 years we were there we should've trained and supplied ally forces better (maybe I wrong here) I was watching a NBC nightly news report how the us army just cut all the power and comms from the main headquarters and just left it abandoned really dampening the allies moral in the process.
They were trained and were given billions in equipment. The government was corrupt as heck and didn't care to make an effort against the Taliban. That report was also false. The Afghanistan military was literally guarding the perimeter of the base. They were informed the US was leaving and it wasn't some quiet sneak out when they are not looking type deal. However, as soon as the military left the Afghanistan forces guarding the base let people in to loot it so a ton of news organizations ran with the "Oh we must not have told them we were leaving" stories.
 

Mandos

Member
Nov 27, 2017
31,918
It's a damned if you do damned if you don't situation; no one wants a large military presence but we don't want the Talkban to run rampant either. My uninformed take is that in the ~20 years we were there we should've trained and supplied ally forces better (maybe I wrong here) I was watching a NBC nightly news report how the us army just cut all the power and comms from the main headquarters and just left it abandoned really dampening the allies moral in the process.
That's standard procedure, otherwise you risk ambushes and massacres
Edit: I'm sure the Afghan brass knew
 

The Albatross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
39,536
I don't think there's an easy solution for Afghanistan. But the point has bared out that this war can't go for another 20 years with no end on sight. I think the best the us can do is support it's allies, support the people who risked their lives for our adventurism, give them an exit and asylum in the US, and hope the issue is forgotten as quickly as Vietnam was.

The reality now is that, honestly, without trump we'd likely still be embedded in Afghanistan for years longer. Trump pushing the GOP to abandon military involvement in the middle east provided the permission structure for Biden to end the war.
 

Cantaim

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,638
The Stussining
I absolutely feel for the women and children of Afghanistan. They deserve better then what they have. But I don't think the U.S. can help them attain anything any better. We are just a Band-Aid that makes them wound worse.
 

sangreal

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,890
Yes, thats how it works when you lose a war and withdraw unconditionally (which was the right decision)

The Taliban ran the country before the invasion too. The new Afghan government can fend them off, or not, but 20 years of war wasn't helping anyone and the US role is over
 
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