• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Oct 27, 2017
12,238
I agree with the review stuff but everything else is wack to me.

The only reason I have bought some of the games I have is due to regional pricing. Valve knows this.

Heck even now the only reason I am tempted to buy Warriors Orochi now is because its cheap here, I hope Koei Tecmo knows that $24 > $0
 

Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,961
LOL, we don't have regional pricing. We pay in PLN, true, but the devs pretty much universally set prices to match Euro tier (with our average wage being, say, 5 times lower than in Germany).
Does Steam not allow for regional pricing in Poland or do developers and publishers just not use it? If it's the latter, that's unfortunate but Steam can't really force devs and pubs to adopt regional pricing.
 

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
28,130
Epic started distributing Fortnite for Android exclusively from their own Store, because they didn't see the point in platform holders like Google (and the rest) taking 30% of revenue for doing not much more than payment processing which is negligible. I wonder if they'll use Fortnite to start hosting other devs games and become a Steam competitor, similar to the way Steam was launched as a trojan horse with Half Life 2.
 

Dreamwriter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,461
Epic started distributing Fortnite for Android exclusively from their own Store, because they didn't see the point in platform holders like Google (and the rest) taking 30% of revenue for doing not much more than payment processing which is negligible. I wonder if they'll use Fortnite to start hosting other devs games and become a Steam competitor, similar to the way Steam was launched as a trojan horse with Half Life 2.
Epic can get away with that because they don't need the services Steam provides - they have their own marketing teams, Fortnite is already well known and was highly desired on the platform. They are not a normal situation.
 

BernardoOne

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,289
Epic started distributing Fortnite for Android exclusively from their own Store, because they didn't see the point in platform holders like Google (and the rest) taking 30% of revenue for doing not much more than payment processing which is negligible. I wonder if they'll use Fortnite to start hosting other devs games and become a Steam competitor, similar to the way Steam was launched as a trojan horse with Half Life 2.
Probably not. Epic Launcher has been a big failure for everything not Fortnite. Unreal Tournament despite being completely free and having the UT name behind it is completely and utterly dead.
 

Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,961
Epic started distributing Fortnite for Android exclusively from their own Store, because they didn't see the point in platform holders like Google (and the rest) taking 30% of revenue for doing not much more than payment processing which is negligible. I wonder if they'll use Fortnite to start hosting other devs games and become a Steam competitor, similar to the way Steam was launched as a trojan horse with Half Life 2.
I don't see any reason why they couldn't or shouldn't do that. Plenty of other companies have done it.

I would be surprised if they end up offering something significantly different than Steam or any other storefront.
 

Knurek

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,341
Does Steam not allow for regional pricing in Poland or do developers and publishers just not use it? If it's the latter, that's unfortunate but Steam can't really force devs and pubs to adopt regional pricing.
They can, sure.
Most don't care though.
Valve's default is a joke (95% of the Euro price), and most AAA publishers don't even use that, opting to match EU price.
Which leads to bloody UK people paying less for games than we do, with average wages in UK higher than even in Germany.
 

Hudsoniscool

Banned
Jun 5, 2018
1,495
After reading this I thought I'd come into this thread and see a bunch of people upset with valve..... nope of course not.

Seams to me after steam monopolized the market that they went straight evil and greedy.
 

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
28,130
Epic can get away with that because they don't need the services Steam provides - they have their own marketing teams, Fortnite is already well known and was highly desired on the platform. They are not a normal situation.
Yeah of course it's not practical for every dev to create their own Store. What I'm saying is Epic making it very clear they think 30% is too much, which implies if (when) they open up to more devs, they'll charge a lot less than the other digital stores. That won't necessarily force other stores to change their own terms, but it may exert some pressure, especially if some high profile devs moved over for the higher %'s.
 

Hudsoniscool

Banned
Jun 5, 2018
1,495
Epic started distributing Fortnite for Android exclusively from their own Store, because they didn't see the point in platform holders like Google (and the rest) taking 30% of revenue for doing not much more than payment processing which is negligible. I wonder if they'll use Fortnite to start hosting other devs games and become a Steam competitor, similar to the way Steam was launched as a trojan horse with Half Life 2.
I hope a good competitor comes in. Be it epic or someone else. A monopoly is never good for anyone.
 

Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,961
They can, sure.
Most don't care though.
Valve's default is a joke (95% of the Euro price), and most AAA publishers don't even use that, opting to match EU price.
Which leads to bloody UK people paying less for games than we do, with average wages in UK higher than even in Germany.
Hm. I see. So Steam could definitely adjust their default price for Poland, and that would help, but ultimately you'd still be relying on devs and publishers to actually use the regional pricing in the first place, which they dont seem interested in doing.
 

Dreamwriter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,461
Yeah of course it's not practical for every dev to create their own Store. What I'm saying is Epic making it very clear they think 30% is too much, which implies if (when) they open up to more devs, they'll charge a lot less than the other digital stores. That won't necessarily force other stores to change their own terms, but it may exert some pressure, especially if some high profile devs moved over for the higher %'s.
They think 30% is too much because they want 0%. That's it. They didn't need anything Google Play provides so they decided to keep all the money for themselves. They didn't choose to do that because 30% was too high, they wouldn't have used Google Play if it was only 5%. They figured that people wanted Fortnite so bad they would be happy sideloading the game.
 

collige

Member
Oct 31, 2017
12,772
Yeah of course it's not practical for every dev to create their own Store. What I'm saying is Epic making it very clear they think 30% is too much, which implies if (when) they open up to more devs, they'll charge a lot less than the other digital stores. That won't necessarily force other stores to change their own terms, but it may exert some pressure, especially if some high profile devs moved over for the higher %'s.
Epic thinks that 30% is too much for them when they have the infrastructure and resources to make their own store. They may or may not be so generous for other devs. After all, for Fortnite, they'd just be taking a cut of their own money.
 

Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,961
Yeah of course it's not practical for every dev to create their own Store. What I'm saying is Epic making it very clear they think 30% is too much, which implies if (when) they open up to more devs, they'll charge a lot less than the other digital stores. That won't necessarily force other stores to change their own terms, but it may exert some pressure, especially if some high profile devs moved over for the higher %'s.
I'm gonna be honest, if devs started releasing games on Epic's launcher I highly, highly doubt that Epic would charge anything less than the standard 30%.
 

Hektor

Community Resettler
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,884
Deutschland
After reading this I thought I'd come into this thread and see a bunch of people upset with valve..... nope of course not.

Seams to me after steam monopolized the market that they went straight evil and greedy.

Fucking evil steam, trying to sell games in other regions by using smart pricing strategies.

tenor.gif
 

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
28,130
Epic thinks that 30% is too much for them when they have the infrastructure and resources to make their own store. They may or may not be so generous for other devs. After all, for Fortnite, they'd just be taking a cut of their own money.
Epic has always been very pro-developer and pro-indie. There's no way they are making public comments about 30% being too greedy, only to then turn around and charge 30% themselves. Wait and see. I expect they'll charge 5%-20%, maybe even have it tiered so the small indies pay the lowest rates and more established devs and pubs pay the higher rate.
 
Apr 25, 2018
1,653
Rockwall, Texas
Epic started distributing Fortnite for Android exclusively from their own Store, because they didn't see the point in platform holders like Google (and the rest) taking 30% of revenue for doing not much more than payment processing which is negligible. I wonder if they'll use Fortnite to start hosting other devs games and become a Steam competitor, similar to the way Steam was launched as a trojan horse with Half Life 2.

Great, so we can have these same arguments and issues because Epic takes a percentage of profits and etc. etc...and then we have yet another store front to worry about. That's what I want anyway (/s). Steam, Windows Store, GoG, EA, Epic, Ubisoft, Blizzard, Google, Amazon, Apple, Sony, and on and on. As always XKCD is relevant:

standards.png
 

MistaTwo

SNK Gaming Division Studio 1
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
2,456
There are issues with the system, but most of this article reads like hyperbole and just lack of understanding on how the game publishing industry works. Valve offer a wonderful service and a great back-end for a decent cut, and are the only platform holder who allows you to easily produce your own product keys for example.

I do have grievances with the system and always have (I've been publishing games through the platform for almost 10 years now) but almost all of the points brought up ring hollow. Except the overcrowded marketplace.
 

deadman322

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,396
i fully support valve undercutting pretty much all the competition by taking less than 30%.



then we can get articles about valve using their market position to bully competitors out.
 

Sedated

Member
Apr 13, 2018
2,598
In the regional pricing section article says a devs can control price themselves if they can spend hours every week checking 40 different currencies... I think this is a bit overblown as currencies don't suddenly drop or gain value by huge margins on a normal basis, if they did then that would massively disrupt trade and economy. Very rarely major fluctuations happen to a few currencies and when they do you will definitely know about those currencies if you watch the news in general.

Bit of a hyperbole but a good piece nonetheless.
 

Pyros Eien

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,974
After reading this I thought I'd come into this thread and see a bunch of people upset with valve..... nope of course not.

Seams to me after steam monopolized the market that they went straight evil and greedy.
The cut has always been there. The cut is industry standard, and is still less than if you sell physical. The cut pays for all the infrastructure to get your game into the hands of the buyers, as well as various services like the Steam API stuff to support all your multiplayer, modding, patching and seeing all the data about your users. Steam is hardly a monopoly when you can decide at any point to sell your game elsewhere such as GOG(if you pass the screening test that is since unlike Steam, they don't allow everything, and as every similar process, is extremely subjective so your "quality game that's not an asset flip done in 3days" might still be considered not worth it) or itch.io which I hear has a much lower cut(you decide what the cut is I think?). Probably Discord too now, or soon.



It's funny how some devs talk about the golden days when Steam actually cared and screen games and if you got on the list you'd sell hundred of thousands copies, but that's assuming you made it. If they went back to that like GOG does, you could bet a lot of games wouldn't get in. You needed to get a large amount of people to vote for your stuff on Greenlight so you needed to make a really good game in the first place. And you know what, if you make a really good game, chances are it's going to sell nowadays too, still. In fact people wishlisting your game has the same effect as people greenlightning it, I think?

Also, an interesting bit about the article. Count how many times Discord is mentionned. Discord, who's preparing to be direct competition to Steam. In an article saying Steam is bad. I guess it could just be a coincidence but it's interesting.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,018
Florida
It's like self publishing your book. You can absolutely do it and take a majority of the profits but you probably don't have the clout to do a thing like that unless you're already super popular.

Oversaturation of the market is evident and I think we have way more chiefs than Indians right now. Some of these smaller teams should get together and form a studio to release one bigger title if they want more exposure.
 

Hudsoniscool

Banned
Jun 5, 2018
1,495
Evil and greedy like rooviding affordable prices for poorer countries
Very evil
Very greedy
I wasn't even talking about that. Though they should give the developer the choice on the size of the discount.

I'm talking about letting their market get filled with shovelware. They should have a quality control like Microsoft and Sony. not giving the developers the tools they need to communicate with the players and not giving them means to remove fake reviews.

These smaller devs live or die on this review system but they arnt given means to adequately remove fake reviews... that's bullshit and I'm disgusted that almost no one gives a shit.
 

Deleted member 1759

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,582
Europe
I hope a good competitor comes in. Be it epic or someone else. A monopoly is never good for anyone.
Yeah, an awful monopoly. There are literally no competitors.

uhm

uPlay
Origin
GOG
Microsoft Store
Epic Launcher
Battle.net
itch.io
...

I wonder why Steam is still the most popular storefront. Can't be that in the end, they offer the best service for developers and consumers alike, can it?
 

collige

Member
Oct 31, 2017
12,772
Epic has always been very pro-developer and pro-indie. There's no way they are making public comments about 30% being too greedy, only to then turn around and charge 30% themselves. Wait and see. I expect they'll charge 5%-20%, maybe even have it tiered so the small indies pay the lowest rates and more established devs and pubs pay the higher rate.
The comments were about the Google Play and iOS stores though, not Steam which provides way more services to devs and customers by any account.

That said, you're right, we do just have to wait and see. Unless the cut difference is so enticing that devs stop releasing on Steam entirely, I can't imagine customers will flock over to Epic's store given that Steam has about a decade of head start in growing its community and developing features.
 

Kurt Russell

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,509
I wasn't even talking about that. Though they should give the developer the choice on the size of the discount.

I'm talking about letting their market get filled with shovelware. They should have a quality control like Microsoft and Sony. not giving the developers the tools they need to communicate with the players and not giving them means to remove fake reviews.

These smaller devs live or die on this review system but they arnt given means to adequately remove fake reviews... that's bullshit and I'm disgusted that almost no one gives a shit.

"Discount"

It's not a discount, it's a way of bridging the gap between countries with wildly different purchasing power. But of course people from rich countries don't care about it (unless they can exploit it, I guess, as it used to happen before everyone got region locked).
 

Derrick01

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,289
A 30% cut for next to nothing? Ok go sell your game on Origin or Uplay, then you can really see what sitting back and doing nothing but collecting 30% looks like.
 

BernardoOne

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,289
I wasn't even talking about that. Though they should give the developer the choice on the size of the discount.

I'm talking about letting their market get filled with shovelware. They should have a quality control like Microsoft and Sony. not giving the developers the tools they need to communicate with the players and not giving them means to remove fake reviews.

These smaller devs live or die on this review system but they arnt given means to adequately remove fake reviews... that's bullshit and I'm disgusted that almost no one gives a shit.
They already give the developer the choice and control of all discounts, what the hell are you talking about?

Curation is shit and results in good games not being let in. Look at the shitshow that is GOG and how many good games they refused.
They give way more tools to Devs to communicate than any other store, what the hell are you talking about

Like

Show me

One single store that allows Devs to reply to reviews and run their own game forum. One.single.store.
 

GameZone

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,838
Norway
Epic started distributing Fortnite for Android exclusively from their own Store, because they didn't see the point in platform holders like Google (and the rest) taking 30% of revenue for doing not much more than payment processing which is negligible. I wonder if they'll use Fortnite to start hosting other devs games and become a Steam competitor, similar to the way Steam was launched as a trojan horse with Half Life 2.

Fortnite was one of the lucky few, and you can't expect every game to achieve success on their own store. Despite having a well established store, Ubisoft release every game on Steam.
 

ramoisdead

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,634
I'm pretty sure Origin and Uplay take a 30% cut as well.

It's what the poster meant. While Steam will offer tools to help the developer get noticed on the Steam store, putting your game on Origin or Uplay will benefit you even less because some of those don't have regional pricing or their own game forum to communicate with the community. All EA and Ubisoft will do is just collect 30% of your sales and have you fend off for yourself to an even smaller customer base.
 

GameZone

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,838
Norway
I hope a good competitor comes in. Be it epic or someone else. A monopoly is never good for anyone.

Epic isn't a Steam competitor. They are like every other store, only interested in selling their own games, nothing else. Isn't that monopoly? The closest thing we have to a Steam competitor now is the Discord Store, and they doesn't come close to Steam in features. At least they're interested in selling games published by different publishers and developers. That's what we need. Different stores for all publishers/developers. I'm so tired of different launchers for different publishers who are only interested in selling their own games.
 

demosthenes

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,662
"Then Valve takes a 30 percent cut for doing next to nothing."

That feels a bit hyperbolic, doesn't it? I can understand the frustration of wanting a more hands on support and activity with certain functions and parts of the Steam platform, but next to nothing, when you get that platform to distribute, sell and maintain your game?

Yea, this is very hyperbolic.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,716
There's two developers by name.
One developer being positive about steam, having launched two very successful games https://store.steampowered.com/app/456670/Hand_of_Fate_2/
The other being negative about steam, having bombed on there https://store.steampowered.com/app/710690/The_Path_of_Motus/

Looking at both those games, i think it's pretty clear why one was successful and the other is not. And it's not "Algorithms"

If there were the strict curation a lot of people like to call for the games by The Park of Motus dev would be curated right out of the store.
 

Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,961
Epic isn't a Steam competitor. They are like every other store, only interested in selling their own games, nothing else. Isn't that monopoly? The closest thing we have to a Steam competitor now is the Discord Store. At least they're interested in selling games published by different publishers and developers.
How did you forget GOG and itch.io and the Humble Store? Those are all bigger marketplaces that compete with Steam compared to a service which literally launched mere days ago.
 

ReBirFh

Member
Dec 8, 2017
449
I wonder if those devs complaining about regional prices are bothering to localize their games, marketing and offering support in the local language. Afterall the consumer deserve at least the same treatment if they are paying more for the same game.
 

Adnor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,962
If Valve ever lowered their cut you'd see pages like GMG being unable to compete because they normally also take a 30% cut, but they lower the price by making a cut of their own profit, to say for example, 15%, which let's them have better prices than Steam and be competitive.