DarthMasta

Member
Feb 17, 2018
4,129
The hobby will be fine, still plenty of great games to buy.

The people making the games, less fine, although as long as there are people wanting to play games, people will be able to make their living making them, but it's not an easy road towards financial independence.
 

tejinashi

Member
Dec 23, 2022
326
Steam and Switch is all I need. I feel that Sony and Microsoft aren't interested in me as a customer.
 

glaurung

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,625
Estonia
One day at a time. Consume the products before beancounters have a chance to ruin them directly or indirectly. Go for singular purchases over mystery box subscription services. Follow auteurs instead of corporations. Shun gacha and mobile games.
 

J75

Member
Sep 29, 2018
6,708
If you're into indies, you'll be all right. If you're like me and aren't into indies (Yes, not everyone is into them) then you're pretty much fucked unless you're happy to go back and dig into your backlog if you have one. Or like me, just barely game and wait till the AAA/AA stuff I'm into arrives, which sadly will likely be fewer and farther between as time goes on. Shit sucks man but what can you do. I'm just glad gaming ain't my only hobby.
 

FriendlyNPC

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,623
I still get to play great games. To me personally, all the bad news of the state of the industry is ultimately unimportant. It just sucks for the people within the industry and I empathize with them.

Now, what hardware I end up playing on might change. Will I focus even more on indies and AA instead of AAA? Maybe, but I haven't played a lot of AAA games for years at this point... Will I play via a subscription or buy individual games? Who knows?

The industry is changing and that's fine - as long as there are good games that I deem worthy of my time, I will continue playing games.

One day at a time. Consume the products before beancounters have a chance to ruin them directly or indirectly. Go for singular purchases over mystery box subscription services. Follow auteurs instead of corporations. Shun gacha and mobile games.

Dis some good advice, especially the auteur part. Focus on the creatives.
 

Rosur

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,512
AAA lost there way and got too big for the amount of copies they need to sell to be profitable.

Live service games also don't seem to be the answer companies where hoping for either as people find one good one for them and then stick with it until that game dies so no longer buy the next live service game and no longer buy normal AAA games contracting the market.

Indie games though seem to be stepping up and filling the void as show by £15-30 range of games blowing up to be 1mill+ sellers this year like Balatro, Helldivers, Palworld and likely Hades 2. Also feel this might also a response to everything else going up in price and less people now have money for £60-70 games.
 

Doomguy Fieri

Member
Nov 3, 2017
5,300
There are plenty of amazing indie titles being released every year.
Literally never been a better time to be a gamer, unless you just play AAA in which case lol. Lmao even. My only concern is that small games and small teams is a young person's game. The industry should support decades long careers. The AAA meltdown affects everyone by making game dev seem like something that's not compatible with professional growth and stability.
 

CosmiKu

Member
Jul 9, 2023
766
Usually when a bubble bursts, there's stuff of value left in the wreckage.

AAA is a bubble that's bursting, but it doesn't mean The End Is Nigh.

Things will look different a decade from now, but I think whatever emerges will be better than what came before.
 

seroun

Banned
Oct 25, 2018
4,519
Was there a thread where indies that released that month or week got posted? Love indies but it's hard for me to keep track of what to follow outside of steam (and I don't play on Steam nowadays).
 

Bengraven

Powered by Friendship™
Member
Oct 26, 2017
27,196
Florida
I don't know if going only PC and Switch is the safest bet, but I've chosen to just hunker down into that fallout shelter to ride this out.
 

Boopers

Member
Nov 1, 2020
1,422
Vermont usa
well, there are so many fun games already out there, and still so many interesting games to come -- even on xbox & game pass.

it stinks that so many studios are getting shut down, but the games are still coming in all shapes and sizes. doesn't make the layoffs any less tragic, but the whole situation isn't so bad for us consumers. in fact, this is probably the best time ever to get into game playing -- just maybe not game making!
 

Trunchisholm

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,407
I feel this is very much like the 80s video game crash in the US, with people claiming gaming was dead when development was thriving outside of a bubble. Yes, AAA development is absolutely unsustainable but we're otherwise living in a golden age for gaming. There are more high-quality titles being released than at any other time in the medium's history.
 

SomePlayer

Member
Apr 16, 2018
211
Retro gaming is still a thing and seems to improve with the times. There is enough amazing content for a lifetime even if game development stopped right now. So whatever happens, our gaming backlog is a safe harbour (for now).
 

julia crawford

Took the red AND the blue pills
Member
Oct 27, 2017
35,722
Was there a thread where indies that released that month or week got posted? Love indies but it's hard for me to keep track of what to follow outside of steam (and I don't play on Steam nowadays).

as much as i dislike OTs i like the Narrative Gaming OT that gets updated not too frequently but it never too dead and is a good resource, if i could make threads i would some similar OTs of my own tbh
 

Rosebud

Two Pieces
Member
Apr 16, 2018
44,138
People in these threads act like Nintendo doesn't exist, which is strange considering they're the market leader. lol
Some people don't want to just play Nintendo games lol. I play one every 4-5 months or so, I need lots of others in between.

Thankfully my Steam library alone is enough to last my whole life (not exaggerating) so I'm not worried.
 

Vommy

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,952
Indies and retro gaming is making me very happy. I don't care much about big titles. As long as small
studios can create freely I'm happy
 

Roytheone

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,240
Have a budget of 100+ million dollars? BG3 is absolutely an AAA game.

While baldur's gate 3 is definitely an AAA game budget and scope wise, because it's not made by a mega corp, the way it is determined if it is a success or not is very different from many other AAA games.

Which is why just saying AAA gaming is dying or in trouble is way to broad, because even within that definition there is a huge spectrum of type of games and business situations.

A Shift away from mega corp AAA towards more BG 3 style AAA would help the industry a lot imo.
 

Thorrgal

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,533
People talk about AAA not being sustainable but what's not sustainable is AA that doesn't sell, that's why MS is moving away from those.

Games like Ghost of Tsushima, GoW Ragnarok, GT7 etc are profitable, unless we get some data saying that it's not so. Even Spiderman 2 is, and the reason it almost wasn't was mainly the IP rights.

My favorite PS5 titles are Returnal and Demon's Souls...are they profitable? I certainly hope so.

We also have third party games like Dragons Dogma 2, games that sold very well and who's budget isn't crazy. I love indies but there's still space for AAA that is made with financial sense
 
Feb 24, 2018
5,351
I've always wondered how healthier the game industry would be if the loot-box boom of the mid-10s had never happened, it always felt like even then that it caused a massive ballooning in growth (partly through the exploitation of "whales", many of which were Children, people with gambling issue or addictive personalities) that was a long term dagger for the industry because their was no way to sustain and pushed the ceiling way too high. I remember when Acitivision announced they made like $2 billion after Overwatch's 1 launch, fanboys cheered for it despite the fact it was clear that meant companies like Acti-Blizz were going to push harder and harder to make sure those profits got higher.

Was it ultimately inevitable given how much that shit had rotted the mobile market and no would the AAA ignore that kind of money?

And that's not even going into the preservation issue, just how much of gaming will still be able to be preserved and properly achieved when these game finally enter the public domain over a century from now, will most of today's game become lost media, unplayable, the masters gone (like so many classics from Sega, Square etc)? Hell this isn't talking about solely online games, even for ones playable offline, will these game even be able played in their complete states due to the use of guests characters, we already see the issue with licences with games like the Capcom AVP and MvC series.
 

julia crawford

Took the red AND the blue pills
Member
Oct 27, 2017
35,722
Nice, that helps! I would love to do weekly indie release threads but I imagine it's an insane amount of work.

also following the itch.io socials, and they also usually do a monthly round up on their youtube channel as well (and make a lot of videos showcasing games released there)
 

Wolf Parade

Member
Feb 1, 2018
842
I'm at a point in my life where I just appreciate what we have and spend little time bemoaning what could have been

Sometimes your favorite band breaks up
Sometimes that movie you loved was a box office failure and never gets another entry
Sometimes that interesting author doesn't find an audience
Sometimes game studios get shut down

It is what it is we can't do much about it when even critical darlings get the axe

I vibe with this. I think this stoic approach is best to marinating sanity among the capitalist chaos. My favourite type of games are what we call AA. mostly JRPGS. Saga Emerald Beyond and Unicorn Overlord are my current GOTY's and Trails Through Daybreak is my most anticipated.

Will these type of games continue to exist in the years ahead? Who knows, but I'll enjoy the hell out of them while I can.
 

Crimson Blood

Member
May 8, 2024
31
AAA gaming is creatively bankrupt and dying. The future looks bright for the AA and indie space.

I can't deny it's a bit sad that 99% of ambitious AAA projects are no longer interesting, but I'm somewhat hopeful that things might change for the better.
 

vio55555

Member
Apr 11, 2024
271
Well at least Nintendo has shown that there's a path to nurturing lots of AA style titles and having them be successful with the AAA titles more constrained to just a couple big pushes during the console life.

I also have to imagine Nintendo's AAA budgets look nothing like Sony/Microsoft...

Trying to spend $300-400 million on singular games is basically going to implode on itself at some point. Endless AAA growth from the biggest franchises has consumed the biggest companies.

It is what it is; just try to enjoy the games you like. I'd also say that the AAA gaming business faces the same issues as the blockbuster movie business; it's just hard to grant that kind of AAA game/blockbuster movie budget without those being huge risks if the franchises fade, and of course, nobody wants to take those risks on new franchise starters these days.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
117,164
I'm sure there is a future.

There's a future. Just not a good one. Miserable live service shit, subscription services, and publishers constantly being blindsided by why their lame cash grab didn't work like some other publisher's did.

And then six trillion roguelike deckbuilders from indie developers all making the same stuff over and over again.

Just...very little reason to have hope anymore. Entire genres and styles of play are vanishing and will never come back.
 

Robotoboy

Banned
Oct 7, 2018
1,190
Tulsa, OK
If you're into indies, you'll be all right. If you're like me and aren't into indies (Yes, not everyone is into them)

I never understood those that say this. Like not all indie games play and feel like "indies" I feel like this word has lost all meaning at this point.

"Indie" just means independent. It can encompass a wide variety of games, and genres. Some "indies" rival AA games in presentation and overall quality. If what you mean to say is you don't care for specific aspect of certain indie games that makes sense... but to say you aren't "into indies" is such a broad sweeping statement that baffles me.

There's a future. Just not a good one. Miserable live service shit, subscription services, and publishers constantly being blindsided by why their lame cash grab didn't work like some other publisher's did.

And then six trillion roguelike deckbuilders from indie developers all making the same stuff over and over again.

Just...very little reason to have hope anymore. Entire genres and styles of play are vanishing and will never come back.

I'm going to be honest here. That six trillion roguelike deckbuilders comment is silly when you look back at older generations. We used to be flooded with garbage licensed games, and shovelware on consoles. It's just switched to being on Steam. You're never going to get rid of those chasing money over creativity. You've always either had to dig for the good stuff, or just buy the outright huge budget games. There will still be games that don't adhere to those concepts.

I don't think the gaming industry is just going to devolve into monotonous drivel, obviously we'll always have garbage we have to sift through. It's always been like that.

Perfect examples:

- Little Kitty Big City
- Indika
- Animal Well
- Pacific Drive
- Penny's Big Breakaway

All games this year that are unique and/or fun concepts. All indie.
 
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Zedelima

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,772
I still have faith in Nintendo

Sony…idk, they are taking their sweet time to release their things so who knows
 

Zaro

Member
Nov 13, 2017
1,462
PC, Switch and Indies

I have Gamepass for PC but i don't know if i will still have it in the future.

I don't care for almost AAA games, they looks good but i find them not that good or at least not better than AA.
But big studio must do AAA, a lot of gamers are really whiny about new games on new platforms.
 
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PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
117,164
I'm going to be honest here. That six trillion roguelike deckbuilders comment is silly when you look back at older generations. We used to be flooded with garbage licensed games, and shovelware on consoles. It's just switched to being on Steam. You're never going to get rid of those chasing money over creativity. You've always either had to dig for the good stuff, or just buy the outright huge budget games. There will still be games that don't adhere to those concepts.

I don't think the gaming industry is just going to devolve into monotonous drivel, obviously we'll always have garbage we have to sift through. It's always been like that.

Perfect examples:

- Little Kitty Big City
- Indika
- Animal Well
- Pacific Drive
- Penny's Big Breakaway

All games this year that are unique and/or fun concepts. All indie.

The genres I care about are basically impossible to do well in the indie scene. They need budgets and production values that are simply too high to pull off with a tiny team and no budget.

Honestly, if you want, just consider my line about deckbuilders to be a placeholder line you can swap out for whatever the newest trend in indie games is, from deckbuilders to "good vibes" potion shop simulators to first person no-combat horror games to Stardew Valley knockoffs to 2.5D retro-inspired Metroidvania games. Whatever the latest craze du jour is.
 

Nameless

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,426
Said many times that even in the worst case scenario for "big gaming", the Indie Scene(especially on PC) can easily carry the hobby for me going forward. Outside of outlier years like 2023, it has been for a while now.

Factor in the existing catalog of video games spanning ~40 years, emulation, and mod projects I'm not worried at all outside of the human cost.
 

Musubi

Unshakable Resolve - Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,821
I just think the nature of capitalism directly conflicts with creative ventures like Video Games.
 

bdbdbd

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,915
I think the hobby is fine, it's just that two corporations have been in an escalating war, drawing some other players into their orbits and have finally pushed things past the point of financial sustainability.

I've been drawing away from the console space for the past few years now, caring less for the AAA treadmill that's developed there and I've not once found that a limitation to finding plenty of engaging, entertaining, amazing game experiences on other platforms and from a myriad of developers. The talent is there, the passion is there - I don't think this industry will ever lack for small to mid size developers with bright ideas and near limitless energy.

As for the larger-scale developers catering to the AAA space, many will need to reassess how to sustain profitability, do it humanely, and adjust their business and development practices accordingly. It's always been the nature of the beast when one's ambitions begin to reach sky high.
 

Giga Man

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
21,345
Large scale game dev is fucked, this shit is unsustainable.

Indies will continue to see mild success, but it will be a hard, stressful, thankless road.

I was talking about this with some friends today and the conversation went something like,

"Both game devs and Pizza makers both make things we love, but society treats them like shit. Why? Shouldn't they be held up as modern day heroes and scholars?"

"But are you gonna tip?"

"No I'm not gonna tip."
Damn. Never thought I could be compared to and relate to a game developer in such a way.
 

LeMillion

Member
Jun 9, 2020
2,275
it feels like watching a deadly traincrash in super slowmotion. games costing around 200-300 million bucks, selling 10+ million copies and people still get fired.
if nintendo jumps on the "our games now cost 150+ million dollars to make" train, the industry is damaged beyond repair.

Piggybacking your post to say that indies and Nintendo feel like the only true source of hope right now. That and a possible push towards handheld devices that help lower the cost/time to produce games.

I had so much damn hope that Xbox was going to go the "right" route with Game Pass and projects like Pentiment/Hi-Fi Rush. Let those studios you paid so much money for flex their creativity while giving varied content on smaller budgets.

Instead, it feels like we'll see them slash things to the bone until they only have talent/scope for Fallout/CoD/Gears, etc...
 

PepsimanVsJoe

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,200
The hobby will always have a future.
It just depends on how much you can stomach thousands upon thousands of gamedevs getting thrown in the woodchipper every few months.
 

Derbel McDillet

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Nov 23, 2022
16,033
Is this the first bubble burst Era ever experienced? I understand when teens doing the doom and gloom, but all you 40 year old dads should know better. As long as there are still people who want to play videogame, there will be games to play. Videogame existed before MS enter the field, it will exist after MS, or anyone else leave.
Agreed.

It's like we have:

Capcom
Sega
Nintendo
From Software
Sony
Atlus
Plenty of standout indie studios.

The shortsighted panic from everyone old enough to know better meanwhile we're getting dozens games weekly just seems by choice.

That's not to say there's NOTHING to worry about or losses to lament, we can try a little harder to look for things.
 

Ouroboros

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,250
United States
Outside of some bigger JRPGs and Nintendo, I'm sort of done with AAAAAAAA gaming. How soul crushing it has become. Indie's is the way to go forward for my tastes and I'm loving it.
 
Oct 26, 2017
8,001
South Carolina
Sounds like someone listened to Jeff Gerstmann yesterday.

But still, you and him are seeing what I saw '08-'10: a sick industry that'll go thru some ugly shit but survive.
 

oty

Member
Feb 28, 2023
4,595
the industry is not going to die, but things are going to change about it and all we can do is our best right now. focus on the workers, always, and responsible and ethical companies and that's pretty much it. we shouldn't hold ourselves too tightly to things that are outside our control and if the industry changes in severe ways the next few decades we will just adapt to it like everything else that has changed in life the last 200 years
 

XaviConcept

Art Director for Videogames
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
4,999
Support games, publishers and creators you care about. Thats the best thing you can do.

For us in the industry ... this has always been the industry in some way, shape or form. Staying at a company 1-2 years is very understandable, almost nobody stays at one place for 20 years so turnover is expected regardless of layoffs and closures. What I mean by that is not to excuse all the layoffs, but rather to reassure you that people will bounce from this and that being employed ina creative industry usually opens doors to other industries and other jobs ... its not quite like other industries where people cant branch out.

This stuff tends to be cyclical, we're going through it right now, but it'll come back around.
 

Fulcrum

Member
Nov 7, 2022
1,480
While it may seem counterintuitive to helping people keep their jobs in these large companies, my best advice is to support the incredible indie developers. There are some incredible games being made by people actually passionate about making a game.