Post your controversial/unpopular wrestling opinions
- Thread starter Baphomet
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You're stuck looking at it through the lens of wrestling doing MMA, not MMA but doing wrestling.
If you start a whole new promotion, lay the ground rules down, and take it seriously, it would work. 2 second long scripted finishes COULD work, they just can't happen in current pro wrestling because the formula doesn't allow that to be fun.
MMA already does that, unscripted. Why would anyone tune in to watch a scripted, baked version of the thing they can already watch for real? Wrestling works because its wrestling. Because it has a long history, and because its fans have learned to sort of give in to the weird/dumb rules and gimmicks in service of an entertaining show (within the parameters set down over decades). Everyone has sort of accepted that its not a real fight, and doesn't have to look like a real fight. Anyone who is looking for something closer to a real fight, has no shortage of options for that. The UFC literally runs shows every weekend.
I literally don't understand the appeal of the current WWE. Every time I have tried to watch it it has just been a mindnumbing parade of seemingly endless bizarre promos and awful angles
I don't get what you are saying? Why would people watch AEW if they could just watch collegiate wrestling? That is such a non-argument lol. Wrestling also exists in a non-scripted form and is not very popular because the scripted version is over the top. I think the same thing could happen with over the top scripted MMA.
EDIT: No one is doing top rope cutters in UFC, but they could and it would be sweet.
Because professional wrestling and collegiate wrestling have almost nothing in common anymore lol
Honestly I think this is true for many women wrestlers.
I see plenty of people fawning over a wrestler and them wanting them to be pushed to the moon and yet they are clearly lacking in areas that others are better at.
- CM Punk's WWE reign was boring and forced. What R Truth said was true, at that time R Truth, Miz and even Rayback were more popular than him. He became what he is today after going against Vince and the authority, which again was a Vince idea. He is a WWE product as much as Cena and Orton even though fans pretend that he was this huge selfmade star that went against the WWE.
- No selling is the biggest crime in wrestling, it makes the difference between a good match and the circus. Having said that while I believe that Omega is a great wrestler when he wants to be, I think the Bucks are atrocious, no matter how many 5 stars they will get.
- Vince McMahon vs Hogan is cult classic.
- ROH and NOAH before 2010' were the best promotions in the world
- Early TNA was far better than early/present AEW
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- No selling is the biggest crime in wrestling, it makes the difference between a good match and the circus. Having said that while I believe that Omega is a great wrestler when he wants to be, I think the Bucks are atrocious, no matter how many 5 stars they will get.
- Vince McMahon vs Hogan is cult classic.
- ROH and NOAH before 2010' were the best promotions in the world
- Early TNA was far better than early/present AEW
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....right
so if someone made a MMA scripted promotion that was different enough from MMA but played by a more fun, and open ruleset than current wrestling it would be different and sweet.
Pro Wrestling already does that. There's been quite a bit of MMA influence taken into pro wrestling, but incorporated into its structure. You even have stuff like Bloodsport which attempts something similar to what you are describing, but its generally more of a one-off type shows and is a nice change of pace from time to time, but its not exactly the most popular thing in the world. The people who disregard pro wrestling because its "fake" or because they can't get over the idea of how "fake" a pin is aren't suddenly going to line up for "Scripted" MMA matches, is what I'm saying, especially not when their is a REAL and incredibly popular alternative in the UFC.
Brett Hart is overrated.
Owen Hart deserved a main event title push.
The original Sting character crushes the crow gimmick.
Goldbergs run in WCW was ruined with too many squashes.
Owen Hart deserved a main event title push.
The original Sting character crushes the crow gimmick.
Goldbergs run in WCW was ruined with too many squashes.
WWF got over because a lot of people thought it was real. I think if a promotion came out and lived the gimmick for a year or so and got heat with online debates about whether it is scripted or not, it could definitely draw attention from people outside wrestling, and have a more fun and open ruleset to boot. Sure, eventually it would just be wrestling but with an MMA ruleset, and maybe not have a huge draw, but I would personally love it because as of now most promotions don't have the bandwidth to explore scripting MMA fights.
The wrestlers aren't trained to make MMA fights look good when scripted, they are trained to run the ropes and throw bad strikes (sorry not sorry). I'm imagining a TK type figure who invests the time and money into this, and I really think it could work, rather, I know it could work, because it would literally just be wrestling but with a fresh and fun ruleset.
Other companies that have tried this drop it quick because, like I mentioned, the wrestlers all suck at this style since it would need to be given a ton of time to train for.
EDIT: Imagine if the stunt coordinator for the John Wick movies was the booker, and just booked action guys to do convincing looking "real" fights that end in a knockout. That would be sick and fun and totally something that is worth exploring since the three count traditional wrestling has never had serious competition in the scripted combat space.
Gonna get crucified for this but... I'm not particularly a huge fan of Ric Flair.
There's a lot he's done right. He's awesome on the mic. Many of his spots are iconic. But his ring work I always found to be spotty at best. He's definitely a marketable talent without question. But calling him the best ever when guys like Bret and Jericho were both amazing in the ring and in their presentation has always been strange for me.
There's a lot he's done right. He's awesome on the mic. Many of his spots are iconic. But his ring work I always found to be spotty at best. He's definitely a marketable talent without question. But calling him the best ever when guys like Bret and Jericho were both amazing in the ring and in their presentation has always been strange for me.
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Ric Flair was a good talent, but again ,people overrate him too much, he's not even close to being the best ever.
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Ric was born to be a star, I won't say he clearly hasn't pushed himself to the most regrettably appreciated talent after recent news, but he has an untrainable charisma to him that puts him over guys like Bret and Jericho. Bret is super fucking boring outside the ring, and that could have worked if they gave him a more serious Orange Cassidy gimmick lol where he just wanted to pin guys and leave, but putting him with over-the-top stars like HBK kinda shines a light on his inability to matter outside the ring.
The core loyal AEW audience would revolt if 2 years of story are thrown out. The whole promise AEW is making is that they're going to follow through on what they make clear. They hint at Punk, we get Punk. They hint at Danielson, we get Danielson. Cody says he won't challenge for the belt, he doesn't. Stipulations matter. There's no way they abandon the longest running story in AEW for Danielson to get the belt when Danielson does not need the belt and the 800,000+ people (2/3rds the current audience) who were watching regularly before BD and Punk joined want Hangman to win it.
it would be the first truly huge hard to recover from mistake AEW made if they abandon that story. Dark Order at the end of 2019 times 100 bad.
I think there's a lot of wrestlers that fall under this. So many get by on personality, or maybe a character, but can't wrestle worth shit and do maybe four moves (not including a signature). For me, Ultimate Warrior was the biggest culprit. Dude just ran around and did clotheslines.
Possibly a controversial opinion by being neither overly negative nor positive: The Bucks are underrated by their critics and overrated by their fans.
+ They can have a good match with anyone, often drawing out the best of their opponents when facing a greener team.
+ They are good at detail work, call backs, maintaining story lines in the ring, consistent selling of an injury for the rest of the match. (people who think they are just spot monkeys aren't paying attention)
+ High level execution of complex moves with little hesitation
- They are too loose with the rules to the point that Rich Knox has to have a heel turn as ref to pay off the groundwork laid by now (they are the anti-FTR in this case)
- Every match goes so big
- People are right that they do too many Canadian Destroyers, etc, and this is distracting depending on your taste, leading to the spot monkey accusation.
Ultimately though, they excel at being a heel team and I think they are doing a great job of getting real life heat by walking this line of being too silly/ironic/po-mo for part of the crowd. They aren't my favorites but I'll watch any match they're part of cuz I know at worst they'll string something clever together and at best they'll be half of an amazing match.
Wow, these are fightin' words!
+ They can have a good match with anyone, often drawing out the best of their opponents when facing a greener team.
+ They are good at detail work, call backs, maintaining story lines in the ring, consistent selling of an injury for the rest of the match. (people who think they are just spot monkeys aren't paying attention)
+ High level execution of complex moves with little hesitation
- They are too loose with the rules to the point that Rich Knox has to have a heel turn as ref to pay off the groundwork laid by now (they are the anti-FTR in this case)
- Every match goes so big
- People are right that they do too many Canadian Destroyers, etc, and this is distracting depending on your taste, leading to the spot monkey accusation.
Ultimately though, they excel at being a heel team and I think they are doing a great job of getting real life heat by walking this line of being too silly/ironic/po-mo for part of the crowd. They aren't my favorites but I'll watch any match they're part of cuz I know at worst they'll string something clever together and at best they'll be half of an amazing match.
Wow, these are fightin' words!
-Kenny Omega and the Elite are awful heel characters in AEW , and playing the goofy meta side like they always do doesnt do them any favours
-CM Punk debut was the best thing in wrestling in 2021 , but the build to him vs Darby was lackluster and his run thus far is underwhelming at best or selfserving at worst.
-I dont care about the New Day spitting in the draft , because their dynamic wont change a bit and the merchandise they sell owerpowers the bloodlust of Vince to split the team.
-Stone Cold inventing "What?" is not a bad thing.
-CM Punk debut was the best thing in wrestling in 2021 , but the build to him vs Darby was lackluster and his run thus far is underwhelming at best or selfserving at worst.
-I dont care about the New Day spitting in the draft , because their dynamic wont change a bit and the merchandise they sell owerpowers the bloodlust of Vince to split the team.
-Stone Cold inventing "What?" is not a bad thing.
This one kinda baffles me, and no hate if you truly believe this. This is unpopular opinions after all. If you're saying Ric from the Nitro years onward is spotty, sure I agree there, but Ric was regularly putting on stone cold classics in the mid to late 80s. He got sloppy as he got older and stopped caring. He was in his 40s when Nitro started, and living like Ric lived that might as well be 65. If you have not watched the Steamboat Flair trilogy, then you're truly missing out on three of the best of the best matches of all time. And if you have and still came out with this opinion, then I guess it is what it is.
When Hangman comes back as the ace tonight (hopefully) I think the audience is gonna burst.
Any heel that just says the first thing to generate heat sucks(for example randomly insulting the hometown sports team, mjf insulting brian pillmans aunt) it feels so forced and unnatural, I prefer generating heat through in the story telling instead of just saying anything that pisses off the crowd.
This includes Brit Baker and MJF, except for the time he was infiltrating the inner circle.
This includes Brit Baker and MJF, except for the time he was infiltrating the inner circle.
That's the thing, his best matches are when he had great opponents like Race, Funk, Sting, or Steamboat. He is definitely great at setting a match out (the old Ric vs broomstick meme), but a lot of his matches against guys like Luger weren't very good. Not Flair's fault, but a really good wrestler shouldn't just have great matches against great wrestlers, but bad ones too.
Stone Cold only worked because he's basically toxic masculinity personified. Like if the shitty Boomers on Facebook were made a character.
ECW was basically the Postal of wrestling promotions. Making up for shittiness with 2edgy4me energy.
ECW was basically the Postal of wrestling promotions. Making up for shittiness with 2edgy4me energy.
Meltzer is an absolute twat, and despite his sins, I'd take Cornette's opinion over his any day.
We had this before the UFC boom and pride fc / k1 boom in Japan. The multiple shoot style promotions in Japan was the birth of MMA.
You still have this style in Japan but it would be extremely difficult for it to become as popular as it was in the late 80's - mid 90's.
I am surprised when UWFI was mad popular (had international TV deals way before any other Japanese promotion) that nobody in the west decided to start something similar. .
There was a gap in the market at that time as this was well before the UFC was popular.
Many people in the west who watched UWFI did actually think they were watching a shoot.
I suppose the difficulty would have been actually putting a roster together as shoot style done properly requires pro wrestlers actually trained in catch wrestling, submission wrestling etc etc.
Japan the talent would get that training going through the dojo's and knowledge passed down through the generations so having multiple shoot style promotions all with their own talent was possible.
In the US I could see it would have been a struggle to put together a roster who not only could work that style but actually wanted to do it.
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Behind the scenes stuff and backstage gossip/rumours/urban legends are FAR more interesting to me than the actual wrestling and storylines. I couldn't give a fuck if Kenny and Bry-D have an 11 star match tomorrow, finding out the next bat-shit crazy thing Vince said/did in gorilla is the real good shit.
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Both are the difference is Cornette doesn't pretend he's not a bully and a misogynistic
More wrestlers need to consider getting a little more gimmicky and over the top these days if they want to stand out.
I do think that many MMA fans if shown something like like bloodsport could actually watch that even though it's a work. Being a work isn't what turns MMA fans away from pro wrestling, it's everything else which comes with it.
You give them a product where its just about two athletes hitting each other and trying to submit each other I think many would at least give it a chance rather than straight dismissal.
I find it amazing that so many "pro wrestlers" don't go about it themselves in actually learning how to wrestle.
Go do some catch wrestling or BJJ classes. It's not like one can't use those techniques in pro wrestling.
I'm not sure if this is an unpopular opinion but I think wish when US promotions will bring in guys from MMA they tell them to not try and work like a pro wrestler. Telling an MMA fighter to throw those weak azz punches looks so phony and stupid. Dos Santos being the latest guy.
Just let them go in there and lay it in but to pull there strikes a bit.
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Naito is the best wrestler in NJPW.
Danielson is great but unless AEW are willing to hold off on putting the belt on him for a while theyare going to kill Hangman's main event push which would be a huge mistake.
Danielson is great but unless AEW are willing to hold off on putting the belt on him for a while theyare going to kill Hangman's main event push which would be a huge mistake.
0 chance Hangman loses to Danielson in the next 3 months.
Page might have the shortest reign yet but it won't be before Revolution and probably not until Double or Nothing or later.
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Naito being the best wrestler is a controversial opinion?