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Kasumin

Member
Nov 19, 2017
1,950
It's a lot less about sticking it to Biden or even the Dems on any personal level than it is to simply refuse to vote for someone you think is a terrible person who's enabling genocide, regardless even of how demonic the alternative is. You're asking people to go to the polls and affirmatively vote for someone they think is enabling genocide, in some cases against their own family members or people they actually know. Just stop to consider that for a moment.

The argument that the other side is much worse (and it is) is not going to be very persuasive when you can't make an affirmative argument for your candidate that justifies his phenomenally limp and cowardly attitude towards what's happening in Gaza, and something like genocide is a bit larger than the typical single-issue voting strategy.
I've thought about it. I could never expect someone who has lost family to listen to my arguments. I'm thinking more about young people who are looking at this from the outside.

Part of my frustration is that people had the dumbest reasons for not voting for Hillary in 2016. Yet here we are now with very valid reasons to not vote for Biden but with much higher stakes. I'm angry with the whole situation and the people in power who could make the situation better but refuse to for ideological reasons or bias.

Meanwhile, Republicans seem to have it easy because they can just sit back and say, "LMAO, we love killing brown people" and don't think any further than that.

Dems are at a greater disadvantage because the other side after unhinged sadists driven by grievance and spite. The press expects more of them. And this huge failure to stand up for the right things at a crucial moment shows the hypocrisy of the Western left not just in the US.

Yet even despite that, I think the flawed left is the only path to the future. It isn't the 90's anymore. Republicans are out for blood. Fascism has resurged worldwide. I only have two options in a two party system. I have to minimize harm, even when people are already being harmed in the worst ways imaginable.

This isn't a movie where a third option will magically appear in the eleventh hour that solves every problem and we just have to find it through sheer grit and strong will.
 

Kasumin

Member
Nov 19, 2017
1,950
For me, at least, I feel our best bet is to absolutely crush the Republican party in the upcoming election, which feels possible since Trump is siphoning the entire party's money away and throwing it down the drain for all his court cases and other personal uses. If that happens, in the near future, the more progressive Democrats can actually try to push back against the unwavering support of the Israeli government. It still wouldn't happen immediately, but it still seems faster than letting Republicans take over and absolutely destroy the US and the environment while probably providing even more financial/military support to the Israeli government.
I agree with you. Defeating Republicans now would be huge. They're in a vulnerable position with Trump acting as a clogged toilet taking all of their funds. It would be deserved comeuppance for making a deal with the devil.

As an aside, I knew Fetterman had gotten bad, but holy shit about him outright saying he doesn't care if Palestinian children die. Personally, I've had colleagues take a similar dive off the deep end. It's scary as hell.

The problem is that the logical argument for defeating Republicans only matters so much against the reality of US policy in Israel. Dems are better in the long term, but I don't expect someone directly affected by this to care about that. I want to fight for more progressive leaders in the future, but that's much harder to do if Republicans destroy democracy in the US.

I can't really make my case here without sounding like I don't care what's happening in Gaza. I do care. More than I can express in a few sentences. I can't explain my situation without revealing a lot about my personal life, but I do interact with people professionally who uncritically support this war and there's nothing I could say to them to change their minds.

Just like I likely couldn't change someone's mind about voting for Biden if they have personally been affected by this conflict. This group has way more justification for their actions than the former group. People who see what's going on in Gaza and the West Bank have a deep understanding of the injustice of it.

But people supporting Israel... I see so many holes in their justifications. The cognitive dissonance is clear as day as they pretty much cover for a right wing government's outright cruelty. The unhinged accusations against college students and other protesters comes from a deep sense that Israel's actions are indefensible. They kind of cognitive dissonance takes a toll. I just shake my head when I hear people I know spout these excuses.

In any case, my apologies for the thread derail. I'm just scared and frustrated, which I know many others are as well
 

rzks21

Member
Aug 17, 2023
2,025
I agree with you. Defeating Republicans now would be huge. They're in a vulnerable position with Trump acting as a clogged toilet taking all of their funds. It would be deserved comeuppance for making a deal with the devil.

As an aside, I knew Fetterman had gotten bad, but holy shit about him outright saying he doesn't care if Palestinian children die. Personally, I've had colleagues take a similar dive off the deep end. It's scary as hell.

The problem is that the logical argument for defeating Republicans only matters so much against the reality of US policy in Israel. Dems are better in the long term, but I don't expect someone directly affected by this to care about that. I want to fight for more progressive leaders in the future, but that's much harder to do if Republicans destroy democracy in the US.

I can't really make my case here without sounding like I don't care what's happening in Gaza. I do care. More than I can express in a few sentences. I can't explain my situation without revealing a lot about my personal life, but I do interact with people professionally who uncritically support this war and there's nothing I could say to them to change their minds.

Just like I likely couldn't change someone's mind about voting for Biden if they have personally been affected by this conflict. This group has way more justification for their actions than the former group. People who see what's going on in Gaza and the West Bank have a deep understanding of the injustice of it.

But people supporting Israel... I see so many holes in their justifications. The cognitive dissonance is clear as day as they pretty much cover for a right wing government's outright cruelty. The unhinged accusations against college students and other protesters comes from a deep sense that Israel's actions are indefensible. They kind of cognitive dissonance takes a toll. I just shake my head when I hear people I know spout these excuses.

In any case, my apologies for the thread derail. I'm just scared and frustrated, which I know many others are as well

FWIW I don't think you need to apologize, everything discussed is fairly connected and your arguments are way more compelling and thoughtful than what we tend to get around here, especially when re-reading after you clarified you meant younger voters and not those with families in Palestine.
 

RomanticHeroX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,909
So this is another thread shit up by people who want to argue about whether or not Biden put out an acceptable statement. Any thread remotely tied to current issues in the US is going to be insufferable for the next seven months.
 
Jan 18, 2018
2,673
So this is another thread shit up by people who want to argue about whether or not Biden put out an acceptable statement. Any thread remotely tied to current issues in the US is going to be insufferable for the next seven months.
Yeah if you hate people with different opinions having conversation and presenting viewpoints different from your own you're gonna have a bad time. Like be specific because I see folks having a real conversations.
 

Scuffed

Member
Oct 28, 2017
11,018
I mean, I'm black and I agree with the probably cynical calculus of voting for Biden. I've read that black women are the most reliable Dem voters, and I wonder if they all make the same cynical calculation that I do: that if shit gets bad, we're screwed before black men and white men and women (and I worry about the LGBTQ community before any of that).

My parents grew up in a military dictatorship and they tell me Americans take the stability of their own country for granted.

We're here because people came up with the dumbest reasons to not vote for Hillary. Gee, I wonder where we will be in four years if people decide not to vote again. And yes, I think funding genocide is a pretty big deal. I'm furious at Dems for letting Israel's corrupt government walk all over them. But maybe we wouldn't even be here if Americans hadn't decided collectively to fuck around a find out 8 years ago!

If I'd known that Biden was a hyper Zionist and had the clairvoyance to know that a major conflict would break out in Israel back when I voted for him in the primaries, then I would've definitely taken a different goddamned route. I have no problem voting for Dems because just like in 2016, it wasn't about me. It was about my investment in the future, especially when it comes to climate change! I took an oceanography course in undergrad, I don't fuck around with climate change.

Biden clearly doesn't care about Palestinians. And yet, he's still far less hateful than the alternative that hates everyone. I only really have two choices in voting, and as someone who only became a citizen in 2007, I really don't want to see this country destroy itself.

After talking friends from South America online, I've realized just how much of the US's riches are built on top of the suffering of others. It's made me cynical, but not cynical enough to burn it all down in November. The US going full dictatorship won't magically make the world a better place, even if one may argue that Americans might deserve it. Global politics doesn't work out nice and neatly that way. In my reading of modern history, generally the sides in global conflicts are "Bad" and "Slightly Less Bad."

And as someone with a PhD who has taught numerous classes of students, I'm far more worried about Republicans destroying American universities than Democrats being their usual milquetoast selves. Could Dems be doing more? Hell yes! But they're still not aggressively trying to dismantle all levels of education.

My choices are shitty status quo or likely destruction. I'm going to go for the former.

Harm reduction discussion is valid and I'm with you. I'm a harm reduction person myself and usually find myself in a lesser of two evils voting scenario. Most people do. The problem is just because a person is voting for Biden over Trump it doesn't mean they have to whitewash the shit Biden is doing on top of it all. Like holy shit Biden already knows there are a bunch of people that will vote for him regardless so at least don't treat him with kid gloves in discussions about the Genocide he is funding. That's all I ask. This is obviously not directed at you just in general.

So this is another thread shit up by people who want to argue about whether or not Biden put out an acceptable statement. Any thread remotely tied to current issues in the US is going to be insufferable for the next seven months.

I can end that. He didn't and these protests are because of his policy so his words don't matter because his actions are dogshit.
 
Oct 27, 2017
16,654
Really scared of some students huh, I hope people are watching how they are treating this situation.

View: https://twitter.com/RobertMackey/status/1783684235938894086

Emory professor slammed onto ground as she called the police out on a forceful arrest of a student. Looks like a second cop pushes her face into concrete.

This is just fucking insane. Politicians have emboldened police to be brutish and violent towards everyone.

Fucking wild, these assholes need to be taken to task.
 

Zeliard

Member
Jun 21, 2019
10,967
I've thought about it. I could never expect someone who has lost family to listen to my arguments. I'm thinking more about young people who are looking at this from the outside.

I want to emphasize that this isn't me. I don't have family in Palestine. I am Arab-American (born in Algeria, so I perhaps do sympathize with colonization) but I have no personal investment in Gaza on that extremely intimate "my family and friends are in danger" level. But a good amount do. I'll also add that it shouldn't really matter, even if you're not Arab or Muslim.

Part of my frustration is that people had the dumbest reasons for not voting for Hillary in 2016. Yet here we are now with very valid reasons to not vote for Biden but with much higher stakes. I'm angry with the whole situation and the people in power who could make the situation better but refuse to for ideological reasons or bias.

Leftists frequently call these things out but we get lumped in with the right because this is a bizarre country. Politicians should take a real stand, there are enough mealy-mouthed centrists in the Democratic party. Mehdi Hasan had a recent interview with AOC where he had to basically coax it out of her that Biden is enabling genocide.

I voted for both Hillary and Biden the last two elections but at some point it becomes exhausting voting for people who could quite clearly give less than two fucks about you. Again, even if the other side is much worse.

Meanwhile, Republicans seem to have it easy because they can just sit back and say, "LMAO, we love killing brown people" and don't think any further than that.

Correct. They're playing a different game.

Yet even despite that, I think the flawed left is the only path to the future.

Of course it is, because the only alternative is just so much worse. But a baseline argument that "the other guys are so much worse" is only gonna be so convincing, you know?
 

Kasumin

Member
Nov 19, 2017
1,950
Harm reduction discussion is valid and I'm with you. I'm a harm reduction person myself and usually find myself in a lesser of two evils voting scenario. Most people do. The problem is just because a person is voting for Biden over Trump it doesn't mean they have to whitewash the shit Biden is doing on top of it all. Like holy shit Biden already knows there are a bunch of people that will vote for him regardless so at least don't treat him with kid gloves in discussions about the Genocide he is funding. That's all I ask. This is obviously not directed at you just in general.
I agree with you. I just get emotional and panic starts to well up when I read these threads. Which is a good sign I should take a break from the Internet, I suppose.

I've already seriously brought up staying with family in Canada if Trump gets elected with my mom and she didn't immediately dismiss what I said, which tells me how seriously she's also taking the situation. And yes, I'm aware that Canadians are likely to elect the conservative party federally and they'll be terrible. Still, I think they have some way to go until they reach the level of Republicans.

I've been getting on dumb arguments on reddit, too, which is something I thought I'd left behind me in my 20's.

On topic: I watched Hasan Piker last night who went to the UCLA protest and live streamed.

I'm not sure how people here feel about him, but I've found him to be informative.

This Bluesky account is also really good at covering the bullshit Israel policies coming out of the Biden administration:

Bluesky

 

Scuffed

Member
Oct 28, 2017
11,018
I agree with you. I just get emotional and panic starts to well up when I read these threads. Which is a good sign I should take a break from the Internet, I suppose.

I've already seriously brought up staying with family in Canada if Trump gets elected with my mom and she didn't immediately dismiss what I said, which tells me how seriously she's also taking the situation. And yes, I'm aware that Canadians are likely to elect the conservative party federally and they'll be terrible. Still, I think they have some way to go until they reach the level of Republicans.

I've been getting on dumb arguments on reddit, too, which is something I thought I'd left behind me in my 20's.

On topic: I watched Hasan Piker last night who went to the UCLA protest and live streamed.

I'm not sure how people here feel about him, but I've found him to be informative.

This Bluesky account is also really good at covering the bullshit Israel policies coming out of the Biden administration:

Bluesky


Canada is not in good shape right now but I won't get into that here. Hasan like anyone is a mixed bag. I like some of his takes and dislike others. There is no source with a clean ledger I mean plenty swear by the NY Times and they give pages for authoritarian Opeds from shit heads and write stories that are badly sourced. They also have good stories. The one thing I will say about Hasan is that his biggest critics in that space are so much worse than him.

I did see some of that protest stream though and it was great. All live and not single glimpse of Anti-semitism. He attended it with Lolo a Public Defender friend of his that is staying with him and is also Jewish. Lolo wasn't afraid because the protests are peaceful and there are plenty of other Jewish people there. Lolo actually got very emotional at the end of the stream, he's a super cool dude. Lolo btw does a podcast with Olayemi Olurin. People might remember her from destroying Mayor Eric Adams on the Breakfast club.
 

yogurt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,988
I think it's fine to do the lesser evil voting, the issue really comes down to the fact that lesser evil voting is enabling the Democratic party to slide further right wards
I largely agree with the rest of your post, but I do want to point out that the Democratic Party (and its mean voter) is further left on nearly every issue (economics, labor, healthcare, civil rights, etc) than it was 30 years ago. Possibly further left than it's been at any time since the realignment of the 60s & 70s.
 
Jan 18, 2018
2,673
I mean, I'm black and I agree with the probably cynical calculus of voting for Biden. I've read that black women are the most reliable Dem voters, and I wonder if they all make the same cynical calculation that I do: that if shit gets bad, we're screwed before black men and white men and women (and I worry about the LGBTQ community before any of that).

My parents grew up in a military dictatorship and they tell me Americans take the stability of their own country for granted.

We're here because people came up with the dumbest reasons to not vote for Hillary. Gee, I wonder where we will be in four years if people decide not to vote again. And yes, I think funding genocide is a pretty big deal. I'm furious at Dems for letting Israel's corrupt government walk all over them. But maybe we wouldn't even be here if Americans hadn't decided collectively to fuck around a find out 8 years ago!

If I'd known that Biden was a hyper Zionist and had the clairvoyance to know that a major conflict would break out in Israel back when I voted for him in the primaries, then I would've definitely taken a different goddamned route. I have no problem voting for Dems because just like in 2016, it wasn't about me. It was about my investment in the future, especially when it comes to climate change! I took an oceanography course in undergrad, I don't fuck around with climate change.

Biden clearly doesn't care about Palestinians. And yet, he's still far less hateful than the alternative that hates everyone. I only really have two choices in voting, and as someone who only became a citizen in 2007, I really don't want to see this country destroy itself.

After talking friends from South America online, I've realized just how much of the US's riches are built on top of the suffering of others. It's made me cynical, but not cynical enough to burn it all down in November. The US going full dictatorship won't magically make the world a better place, even if one may argue that Americans might deserve it. Global politics doesn't work out nice and neatly that way. In my reading of modern history, generally the sides in global conflicts are "Bad" and "Slightly Less Bad."

And as someone with a PhD who has taught numerous classes of students, I'm far more worried about Republicans destroying American universities than Democrats being their usual milquetoast selves. Could Dems be doing more? Hell yes! But they're still not aggressively trying to dismantle all levels of education.

My choices are shitty status quo or likely destruction. I'm going to go for the former.

First off, I'd like to say thanks for the response. I feel what you wrote here and for myself personally, I agree with damage mitigation and buying more time.
That said, I cant say that not voting hasn't crossed my mind, and my perception is colored by my experiences and the experiences of the people around me.
I grew up in Memphis and Mississippi, dealt with a lot of racial trauma and hardcore racism all my life. Not gonna lie, I grew up with a deep hatred of my environmental and society as a whole. Even hatred of myself for my blackness, growing up black in a racist environment can hit like that.
I navigated systems that were designed to keep me down, police who were quick to pull weapons on me and rednecks who openly hated black people.
There was a point where I was completely disillusioned to the political happenings in America and it took a lot of work and educating myself to get out of it. In fact, if it wasn't for me moving out of Mississippi, I probably would STILL have that perspective today. I still know what it feels like, and I still battle that feeling on a daily basis at this point. So when I see someone who says fuck it, and doesn't vote because of disillusionment to a system and people that tells them they are worthless (at least until it's time for you to vote 😉) then all I can say is I understand. I don't encourage anyone to not vote and that's not the point I'm speaking to, but what I will speak to is understanding. People are beat down and tired, mental health fucked and financially burdened, historically silence and you watch as your people are called terrorist, or thug, or whatever dehumanizing term the political machine has for your group of people and you have to summon that energy to vote for them same mutha fuckas that just made your depression even worse just five minutes ago.
That shit is hard as fuck. ?As you know as you just spoke on it) It ain't easy. And having to do that while being in the crosshairs of both political parties is even wilder. When no matter who you vote for your people are getting killed and all folks can say is, "aye, could be worse, you could be dying more and we could be dying too" it shouldn't be so hard to see why someone would tap out. So when folks turn around and blame these people it gets under my skin.

At the end of the day, our participation HAS to go beyond voting. We have to make our voices heard and truly band together to hold politicians accountable.
We can't just keep getting a dem in office and getting complacent like we do when they win. Democracy takes constant maintenance and attention and even when a dem wins we can't make the mistake of getting too comfortable by not getting out there and making our voices heard.

Sorry I tend to hit these stream of consciousness rants and ramble on.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,717
For me, at least, I feel our best bet is to absolutely crush the Republican party in the upcoming election, which feels possible since Trump is siphoning the entire party's money away and throwing it down the drain for all his court cases and other personal uses. If that happens, in the near future, the more progressive Democrats can actually try to push back against the unwavering support of the Israeli government. It still wouldn't happen immediately, but it still seems faster than letting Republicans take over and absolutely destroy the US and the environment while probably providing even more financial/military support to the Israeli government.
This is the best option we got. Life isn't nice or fair. Pragmatism towards a beneficial end is all there is and all there ever was.
 

meowdi gras

Banned
Feb 24, 2018
12,679
Kasumin, just wanted to say thank you for a welcome, nuanced take on the dilemma we're facing right now as American voters. As in countless examples during the history of popular democracy, we're sometimes confronted by unfairly difficult choices in situations largely out of our control.

On the note of difficult choices, I'm not Black, so I hope I will be forgiven for bringing this up, but as a student of history, I can't help looking back to the emancipated slaves in the years following the Civil War, as well as today's African-Americans who have carried on their legacy, as my examples to follow to the ballot box. What a lesson to us all in negotiating the crucible of hard voting choices.

And I'm assuming Biden and other big democrats are silent (or perhaps even supportive) of this? If there is any topic that Republicans agree on then a Democrat should stop and think twice about it. But who am I kidding, they're all getting paid by AIPAC.

US democracy lol.
This you?

You yourself would do well to reflect on your grasp of the situation after having one of your assumptions about Biden debunked as false. You may not be on quite as sure of footing as you think with your casual generalizations.

Fwiw, were I a bad actor on social media or a dubious "news" outlet right now, I'd really be pushing that "both sides are the same" narrative harder than ever. Between present conditions in the Middle East, outrage culture reaching something of an apotheosis during this election season, and declined media literacy and critical thinking skills, I can't think of a moment in my lifetime where that angle has been an easier sell.
 

effingvic

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,371

View: https://twitter.com/axios/status/1783872167836336524

Are we getting these to protect Palestinian / Arab / Muslim students as well? Or are we totally cool with their abuse and harassment?

Its bad enough many Democrats are completely silent about the false narratives around the campus protests but then you also have guys like Ritchie Torres who are in lockstep with republicans in their smear campaigns.

I dont blame people for tuning out of politics when you have democrats like Torres and Fetterman who expose themselves to be complete pieces of shits once they're in office.
 

effingvic

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,371
From what I have seen (though of course I'm only one student, and thus this isn't a complete, comprehensive view), the vast majority of antisemitic rhetoric and attacks have been propagated by outside actors, groups, and opportunists. While we are glad to have outside groups supporting us, the massive amount of protesters coming to our campus has presented real security risks due to certain individuals spreading hateful and bigoted remarks. As for the mood within campus, it's tense for sure but nowhere near as confrontational as the media is presenting with the footage of these outside protesters. Anyone involved in the encampment is encouraged not to engage with counter-protesters or police, and the lead organizers are extremely firm on ensuring people in the camp are safe from racist, xenophobic, or antisemitic rhetoric. There is a massive Jewish population within our camp, it's inconceivable that our organization would explicitly endorse antisemitism with their support.

Keep in mind this is a movement entirely run by students -- it's challenging to keep everyone in check during such a contentious time, but the lead organizers are truly trying their best and the encampment has been nothing but a compassionate, caring community for those dedicated to the cause

I'm still busy supporting the encampment, but I'll try to get back to other people's questions if anyone else has any.

Wishing you all safety and victory!

USC cancels main commencement ceremony amid Gaza protests


www.theguardian.com

USC cancels main commencement ceremony amid Gaza protests

Move made after more than 90 demonstrators arrested on campus and university cancels pro-Palestinian valedictorian’s speech

USC and Columbia admins neck and neck for the dumbass university admin gold medal.

This shit all started because pro israeli students and orgs protested until her speech was cancelled. It was a blatant instance of bigotry and Im so fucking sick of these double standards.

been seeing this pic all over bsky today

bafkreif6ljr3kzlszngz5zly2dfyv5rhcxrsnwqjyqarjvhaedu2aceapq@jpeg

Also in Ohio State


View: https://twitter.com/isaiah_bb/status/1783867805076480339

On topic: I watched Hasan Piker last night who went to the UCLA protest and live streamed.

I'm not sure how people here feel about him, but I've found him to be informative.

This Bluesky account is also really good at covering the bullshit Israel policies coming out of the Biden administration:

Bluesky


I watched that stream and it was really good. It was sweet to see all those students who learned from his streams and were inspired to take up activism.
 

PES

Member
Sep 26, 2021
91
Jesus Christ people apparently can't criticize the horrendous and honestly slanderous response from the Biden administration and Democrats to the protests without the liberal defense brigade derailing the whole conversation for two pages to whitewash the Biden administration and repeat the same usual vote pragmatically is the only option bullshit. This forum is an intellectual wasteland.

What is more amusing is that this is happening exactly in a thread reporting on *another completely valid* way people in the US figured out they could deal with the current context, which is fucking protesting and organizing and pushing back against the genocide supported by US institutions and government. Your only option is not to "oh I'll heroically face the difficulty that is voting in tough times for that is the duty of the good citizen", you can actually go join one of these protests or organize your own to try to pressure such administration instead of carrying water for it.

Maybe it achieves something, maybe it doesn't, but if it works it might make the idea of voting for Biden easier for you and the people that are disillusioned and justifiably angry enough to not have that as their top priority. If it doesn't work then you can go vote with a clear mind that you did everything *you actually could*.
 
Last edited:

Oghuz

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,936
Kasumin, just wanted to say thank you for a welcome, nuanced take on the dilemma we're facing right now as American voters. As in countless examples during the history of popular democracy, we're sometimes confronted by unfairly difficult choices in situations largely out of our control.

On the note of difficult choices, I'm not Black, so I hope I will be forgiven for bringing this up, but as a student of history, I can't help looking back to the emancipated slaves in the years following the Civil War, as well as today's African-Americans who have carried on their legacy, as my examples to follow to the ballot box. What a lesson to us all in negotiating the crucible of hard voting choices.


This you?

You yourself would do well to reflect on your grasp of the situation after having one of your assumptions about Biden debunked as false. You may not be on quite as sure of footing as you think with your casual generalizations.

Fwiw, were I a bad actor on social media or a dubious "news" outlet right now, I'd really be pushing that "both sides are the same" narrative harder than ever. Between present conditions in the Middle East, outrage culture reaching something of an apotheosis during this election season, and declined media literacy and critical thinking skills, I can't think of a moment in my lifetime where that angle has been an easier sell.

Did I say anything that isn't true? Go ahead and argue against it instead of coming at me personally.
 

meowdi gras

Banned
Feb 24, 2018
12,679
User Banned (3 Months): Highly inappropriate comparison regarding slavery, previous severe ban for advocating genocide
Clearly God has already forsaken us since our two options are a genocider and a fascist.
Just glad the emancipated slaves didn't think like you do. Else American democracy would've died out over a century ago.
 

hanshen

Member
Jun 24, 2018
3,879
Chicago, IL
"fate of the free world" while police are beating unarmed peaceful student protesters and the media tell blatant lies to justify a genocide.
 

Jeb

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Mar 14, 2018
2,166
Jesus Christ people apparently can't criticize the horrendous and honestly slanderous response from the Biden administration and Democrats to the protests without the liberal defense brigade derailing the whole conversation for two pages to whitewash the Biden administration and repeat the same usual vote pragmatically is the only option bullshit. This forum is an intellectual wasteland.

What is more amusing is that this is happening exactly in a threat reporting on *another completely valid* way people in the US figured out they could deal with the current context, which is fucking protesting and organizing and pushing back against the genocide supported by US institutions and government. Your only option is not to "oh I'll heroically face the difficulty that is voting in tough times for that is the duty of the good citizen", you can actually go join one of these protests or organize your own to try to pressure such administration instead of carrying water for it.

Maybe it achieves something, maybe it doesn't, but if it works it might make the idea of voting for Biden easier for you and the people that are disillusioned and justifiably angry enough to not have that as their top priority. If it doesn't work then you can go vote with a clear mind that you did everything *you actually could*.
Co signed.

We don't have time to waste cleaning the image of your favorite politician when they are doing their best to exterminate an entire population of people.

I know some prioritize the election but fuck that, we have no time to waste, thousands upon thousands of Palestinians are not making it to November, we don't have the luxury to waste time tone policing for the sake of a genocidal ghoul.
 

meowdi gras

Banned
Feb 24, 2018
12,679
Glad people like Kasumin's parents who grew up in a real fascist state have a better perspective on these things.
 

Buckle

Member
Oct 27, 2017
41,245
Just glad the emancipated slaves didn't think like you do. Else American democracy would've died out over a century ago.
Yeah, I'll try to remember how good we have it while we have snipers aiming their guns at kids for peacefully protesting an ongoing genocide that we're arming and funding.
 

PES

Member
Sep 26, 2021
91
God help us all if the fate of the free world is in the hands of the "US democracy, lol" people.

Imagine writing "fate of the free world" *specially in this specific thread* unironically and then harassing another user across multiple threads about critical thinking hahahahahahahaha. The Dunning–Kruger effect, ladies and gentleman.
 

meowdi gras

Banned
Feb 24, 2018
12,679
Can you maybe chill out and not be so unnecessarily combative? I can promise you whatever happens come November won't be decided by some random posts on an Internet forum.
Agreed on both counts. Ngl, the unending, uncritical regurgitating of a false narrative spun by the GOP and other bad actors in the two recent TikTok threads has impacted my bs tolerance levels a little more more than usual, I guess. Already said all I need to say, anyway.
 

Dogo Mojo

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,179
The threat of fascism under Trump/Republicans is going to fall on deaf ears among many voters when college students and their faculty are being arrested and brutalized for peacefully protesting against genocide and the response from our Dem President is that they are all anti semites.

It doesn't help that current optics seem to indicate that our government is taking marching orders from Netanyahu.
 

lori

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,953
Just glad the emancipated slaves didn't think like you do. Else American democracy would've died out over a century ago.
Honestly? How dare you, holy shit. You know our "democracy" was conceived by slave owners, right??? Do you think democracy was saving black lives after slavery still? Black communities got torched and kept in poverty for generations with prison systems taking the place of the old one. I'm honestly furious you would ever think to use American democracy as some shining beacon of hope for the black community. The ones they HAVE to vote for are still opposed to helping them! Biden is yelling fund the police! The VP is a cop!!! The "lesser evils" are aiming snipers at them for protesting right now! That's the thread!!!!! Fuck!!!!!!!
 

orochi91

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,872
Canada
The threat of fascism under Trump/Republicans is going to fall on deaf ears among many voters when college students and their faculty are being arrested and brutalized for peacefully protesting against genocide and the response from our Dem President is that they are all anti semites.

It doesn't help that current optics seem to indicate that our government is taking marching orders from Netanyahu.

Netanyahu is probably the second most powerful leader in the world right after Biden.

That dude is untouchable, apparently.
 

orochi91

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,872
Canada

Whales

"This guy are sick"
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,238
Jesus Christ people apparently can't criticize the horrendous and honestly slanderous response from the Biden administration and Democrats to the protests without the liberal defense brigade derailing the whole conversation for two pages to whitewash the Biden administration and repeat the same usual vote pragmatically is the only option bullshit. This forum is an intellectual wasteland.

What is more amusing is that this is happening exactly in a thread reporting on *another completely valid* way people in the US figured out they could deal with the current context, which is fucking protesting and organizing and pushing back against the genocide supported by US institutions and government. Your only option is not to "oh I'll heroically face the difficulty that is voting in tough times for that is the duty of the good citizen", you can actually go join one of these protests or organize your own to try to pressure such administration instead of carrying water for it.

Maybe it achieves something, maybe it doesn't, but if it works it might make the idea of voting for Biden easier for you and the people that are disillusioned and justifiably angry enough to not have that as their top priority. If it doesn't work then you can go vote with a clear mind that you did everything *you actually could*.

just wanted to say and I appreciate every single one of your post in these recent threads. thank you