PS5 System Message: "PS5 Games can't be played with the DS4"...but Sony Remote Play App doesn't care and it works fine?

[The Iron Banana]

We now live in a fictional crazy world where people call Microsoft, MICROSOFT, pro consumer lol. Fucking hell.

Anyways yeah it's hard to argue with the DS4 not being allowed when it comes to disabilities. That's just fucked up.

At first I was like, why on Earth would anyone want to play with the DS4 when the DualSense is twice the controller.....but yeah, in my head I'd completely forgotten specialized controllers.

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Times change and companies do too. Apple was a joke before Jobs came back. Samsung used to be a shitty Korean brand. Sony used to be a shitty Japanese brand. It's entirely possible for a company to change it's perceptions based on solid business moves and people would be better served to accept it and not hand it away.

 

[Exposure]

At the end of the day, enabling the DS4 on the PS5 only hurts the DualSense experience, because it splinters the userbase.

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And letting you turn off the new Dualsense features doesn't????

Like that's the basic thing: if Sony is always going to allow that, you always have to account for the players effectively just having a Dualshock 4 in a Dualsense wrapper.

And at that point, why not just let the Dualshock 4 be usable?

 

[Traxus]

I rather the focus be the DS, its likely easy to have support for DS4, since the XSX controller is similar to it. But I still want the focus to be on the DS, so there is less excuses when a dev doesn't support the DS features. Now if a game doesn't need or benefit from the DS, then fair enough, no need to support something that will only make the experience worse. But yeah I want no part of the DS4 to be used with PS5.

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I'm not sure why some want PS4 controller support on the PS5 system if the system comes with a PS5 controller? Devs should not have to worry about adopting or supporting last gen controllers for PS5 titles.

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It's an inconvenience, I guess, but pretty soon DualSense controllers will be as common as the DS4. It just seems like a pretty minor deal. Every person who bought a PS5 that I know in real life also bought an extra controller for charging purposes.

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I feel like people saying this kind of thing have never played local multiplayer. It sounds very entitled and presumptuous to be like "Want to play with your friends or family? Fuck you, buy some more controllers for $70 each instead of using the DS4s you already have because we need an isolated ecosystem." It just doesn't make any sense for crossgen games.

Examples of games with local multiplayer and PS5 versions that automatically lock players out from using DS4s:

1.Sackboy
2. FIFA
3. CoD
etc.

I understand encouraging developers to use DualSense features, but not at the expense of fucking over players' experience with crossgen games in the meantime.

 

[.exe]

Why do people arguing against PS4 compatibility like absolute marks choose to forget that Sony doesn't sell the PS5 without a Dualsense? Lmao. Come on, people. If the game absolutely requires the haptics or adaptive triggers in local multiplayer or otherwise, developers can just flag that it's necessary to use such and such controller like on Switch.

 

[DieH@rd]

And letting you turn off the new Dualsense features doesn't????

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Turning off Dualsense feature is an optional accessibility option. It's there for those who really want it.

They probably have telemetry tracking for PS3, PS4 and PS5 that tell that marginal number of people do so. Also, using DS4 via RemotePlay is most likely even more rare (fraction of a single percent of userbase).

 

[Iron Eddie]

I feel like people saying this kind of thing have never played local multiplayer. It sounds very entitled and presumptuous to be like "Want to play with your friends? Fuck you, buy some more controllers for $70 each instead of using the DS4s you already have because we need an isolated ecosystem." It just doesn't make any sense for crossgen games.

Examples of games with local multiplayer and PS5 versions that automatically lock players out from using DS4s:

1.Sackboy
2. FIFA
3. CoD

I understand encouraging developers to use DualSense features, but not at the expense of fucking over players' experience with crossgen games in the meantime.

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Fair enough. So you are in agreement all PS5 non-cross gen games should only use the PS5 controller?

 

[Deleted member 11370]

They should just let you use a regular PS4 controller (not even the DualShock necessarily!) if the game doesn't use any DualSense-specific features. I can totally understand that Astro needs them, but Borderlands 3? Spider-Man? Fortnite? None of those games require adaptive triggers. Fuck, I turn the option off as soon as I can in most games :/

 

[Dolce]

Did 3rd party PS4 controllers have touchpads or lightbars? Not being sarcastic, I honestly have no idea.

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https://stores.horiusa.com/wired-mini-gamepad-black/

Stuff like this existed which was officially licensed. That touchpad I'm pretty sure is just a button, there's no rumble and there's no lightbar.

Fighting Commander for PlayStation 4 & 3 Officially Licensed by Sony - PlayStation 4

stores.horiusa.com

There was also this.

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

Yeah it's annoying

Is this also an issue with Xbox?

I assume One controllers don't work with Series consoles, right?

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Xbox controllers go BOTH ways.

New controller works on Xbox One and Xbox One controllers work on Series consoles.

 

[Exposure]

Turning off Dualsense feature is an optional accessibility option. It's there for those who really want it.

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Yes, and this means you already have to account for a user using a controller that's effectively the same as the Dualshock 4.

Like, if that's always going be a thing, then the arguments re: Dualshock 4 support goes from "why should we support a controller that won't support everything we want to do on the new system" to "why shouldn't Sony let you use a controller that's effectively already supported anyway?"

 

[jorgejjvr]

Um, I remote play with my DualSense all the time though.

Locking out DS4s is not cool at all.

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Last time I tried it, it didn't work for me, and my remote play app only HD DS4 as supported, maybe it got updated

 

[Jakenbakin]

I would happily take the compromise that fewer developers take advantage of the DualSense feature set if it meant Sony didn't have a practice that particularly hurts an already marginalized group of people to bolster their bottom line. It's really really disappointing how many people in here are like "well yeah disabled gamers will have to wait for new specialized equipment and spend hundreds more again, but just think of the potential of the next Call of Duty not having the controller vibrate in a different spot depending on where you're shot".

Like, not only is this just a bad take, but it's one being made entirely off a disposition to believing developers see no inherent value in those features and will only adopt them if given no alternative. Yet the alternative is literally supported and mandated at an OS level, because Sony allowed these features to be optional. So if developers don't see the value in the feature set, they're still not likely to support it. Whereas if Sony supported the DS4 but developers find there was value in the feature set, they would still utilize those optional features because it adds value to their product.

 

[Dolce]

Fair enough. So you are in agreement all PS5 non-cross gen games should only use the PS5 controller?

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You can turn off all DualSense exclusive features. So this doesn't make sense.

 

[CorpseLight]

We now live in a fictional crazy world where people call Microsoft, MICROSOFT, pro consumer lol. Fucking hell.

Anyways yeah it's hard to argue with the DS4 not being allowed when it comes to disabilities. That's just fucked up.

At first I was like, why on Earth would anyone want to play with the DS4 when the DualSense is twice the controller.....but yeah, in my head I'd completely forgotten specialized controllers.

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What has Microsoft done with the Xbox that you view as anti consumer.

 

[8byte]

And letting you turn off the new Dualsense features doesn't????

Like that's the basic thing: if Sony is always going to allow that, you always have to account for the players effectively just having a Dualshock 4 in a Dualsense wrapper.

And at that point, why not just let the Dualshock 4 be usable?

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You can turn off / not use internet too, but developers know every console is online enabled, correct?

It's about studios knowing for a fact that every system supports x feature out of the box for every user. Disabling doesn't mean it stops existing.

It's simply a measure to ensure every user on PS5 will have those features available for every PS5 game. Whether they chose to use it (ie disable it) is on the user end.

OF COURSE some of the drive is to sell new accessories. That is not the *only* driving force, however, as some are presenting.

 

[EggmaniMN]

Being an apologist for Sony's dreadful practices and being ableist is like the era special these days, I'm pretty sure.

 

[Iron Eddie]

You can turn off all DualSense exclusive features. So this doesn't make sense.

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Sony believes in generations, of course it makes sense from their angle. They are encouraging devs to support those new features by mandating the PS5 controller. I'm sure some games could also play on an external hard drive but is Sony allowing that for PS5 titles?

 

[shadowsdarknes]

It's definitely something that should be changed.

I'd like to buy Sackboy for some couch co op. But I'm not ready to buy a second dualsense. We all know additional colors are coming. I'll wait.
I should be able to use a DS4 while playing the PS5 version.

 

[Dolce]

You can turn off / not use internet too, but developers know every console is online enabled, correct?

It's about studios knowing for a fact that every system supports x feature out of the box for every user. Disabling doesn't mean it stops existing.

It's simply a measure to ensure every user on PS5 will have those features available for every PS5 game. Whether they chose to use it (ie disable it) is on the user end.

OF COURSE some of the drive is to sell new accessories. That is not the *only* driving force, however, as some are presenting.

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The DualSense is packaged with the system. Every user already has access to all those features. Third parties are still going to sell controllers (fight sticks, racing wheels, etc) that don't support all those features and those are already supported. Exceptions already exist within the PS5 ecosystem.

Sony believes in generations, of course it makes sense from their angle. They are encouraging devs to support those new features by mandating the PS5 controller. I'm sure some games could also play on an external hard drive but is Sony allowing that for PS5 titles?

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They believe in generations except when they don't. PS4 fightsticks and PS4 racing wheels work right now, out of the box. They'll be fully compatible with future PS5 titles.

 

[Deleted member 46493]

Are people here talking about using a PS4 controller on the computer remote play app? If so you cannot compare it. The controller connected to the PC is just sending inputs it sends to the PS5, same as if you played with a keyboard or third party controller.

 

[Bucéfalo]

Not only you can use the DS4 while in remote play, but it is in fact the ONLY allowed controller to use. This is extremely stupid by Sony, like, are you telling me that I can't use the DS4 on my Ps5 but you force me to use it in the Android remote play app while streaming Ps5 games? Who is at the steering wheel, like seriously, this truly puts me on my nerve, 1 full month with my Ps5 and, oh, surprise, I haven't been able to play on my Andorid because I don't own a PS4 nor a DS4. Sigh...

 

[TitanicFall]

Not only you can use the DS4 while in remote play, but it is in fact the ONLY allowed controller to use. This is extremely stupid by Sony, like, are you telling me that I can't use the DS4 on my Ps5 but you force me to use it in the Android remote play app while streaming Ps5 games? Who is at the steering wheel, like seriously, this truly puts me on my nerve, 1 full month with my Ps5 and, oh, surprise, I haven't been able to play on my Andorid because I don't own a PS4 nor a DS4. Sigh...

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On PC you can use the DualSense for remote play

 

[Martinski]

We now live in a fictional crazy world where people call Microsoft, MICROSOFT, pro consumer lol. Fucking hell.

Anyways yeah it's hard to argue with the DS4 not being allowed when it comes to disabilities. That's just fucked up.

At first I was like, why on Earth would anyone want to play with the DS4 when the DualSense is twice the controller.....but yeah, in my head I'd completely forgotten specialized controllers.

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Yes? MICROSOFT, has been pretty pretty pretty pro consumer at least since when one x released. Even more so now with forward and backwards compatibility with One and Series platforms, Gamepass etc. Or what are the arguments for anti consumer?

 

[8byte]

The DualSense is packaged with the system. Every user already has access to all those features. Third parties are still going to sell controllers (fight sticks, racing wheels, etc) that don't support all those features and those are already supported. Exceptions already exist within the PS5 ecosystem.



They believe in generations except when they don't. PS4 fightsticks and PS4 racing wheels work right now, out of the box. They'll be fully compatible with future PS5 titles.

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Comparing flight sticks & racing wheels made for specific genres of game's is apples to oranges.

 

[Alvis]

As it should be.

Developers should expect you to have the DS features when playing their games.

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you can disable everything that makes the dualsense unique vs the dualshock 4 at a system-wide level.

and you can LITERALLY use a workaround to use the DS4 anyways (remote play), sony is just locking it out for no reason

there's no need to defend everything that a company does. they won't take your PS5 away

 

[Bucéfalo]

On PC you can use the DualSense for remote play

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Yes, I know, but you can't on Android, which is the place I personally would want to use remote play.

 

[Diarrhea Day-Lewis]

Can you remote play Astro with the haptics and adaptive triggers set to on?

 

[Deleted member 27751]

That's strange I don't know any multiplatform games better than sonys exclusives, you should try some more sometime

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Uhhh, the dude clearly said they are not interested, so not sure why it's a big problem? People like different games, their choice as to which platform and the reasons to using it.

————
There are so many fucking ableist comments in here that are essentially "well deal with it because Sony should force people to use a controller that barely changes anything so my extra purchase is redeemed." The fact there people are responding with serious intent to say that those wanting PS4 controllers to be supported due to modability/back paddles etc, are not entitled to such an opinion and are holding back innovation. The haptics are nice, but they are not ground breaking enough to ignore disability needs. Nothing ever is.

Sony definitely should support the PS4 controller, as it is currently pointless not to and greedy as fuck.With the ability to turn off haptics and still play those precious games providing haptic design without the system blowing up, there is zero excuse to support modded PS4 controllers. Especially when many people have spent a fair chunk of change on the product (I feel for PS4 back pedal attachment owners) to have Sony say "sorry we don't give a shit about you" and their defence squad back that up by licking the corporate boots.

You can not faithfully argue against supporting the PS4 controller when you also state turning off the haptic triggers is an "accessibility option for those wanting such." No, fuck off with your ignorance and understand there are many needs for it's support that enable so many gamers to actually play. Your precious optional features will still be available to developers to support if they choose, but I'd rather options for a consumer and those unable to use/have already invested alternative disability friendly controller designs.

 

[Deleted member 18400]

Yes? MICROSOFT, has been pretty pretty pretty pro consumer at least since when one x released. Even more so now with forward and backwards compatibility with One and Series platforms, Gamepass etc. Or what are the arguments for anti consumer?

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If you don't see the irony in hand waving decades of anti-consumer practices by one of the most anti-consumer corporations that has ever existed because they let you use your old stuff on their new console is, then I can't help you friend.

Like I said, I wish Sony would allow everyone to use their old controllers. I was merely commenting on the fact that this forum sounds very entitled and whiny when we are complaining about not being allowed to use our 8 year old controllers on a new system when Xbox and Playstation have both somehow released excellent new consoles, with excellent new games and accessories during a GLOBAL PANDEMIC.

Everyone on here just loves to focus on the negative and it gets exhausting to constantly placate everyone on here lol.

 

[Martinski]

If you don't see the irony in hand waving decades of anti-consumer practices by one of the most anti-consumer corporations that has ever existed because they let you use your old stuff on their new console is, then I can't help you friend.

Like I said, I wish Sony would allow everyone to use their old controllers. I was merely commenting on the fact that this forum sounds very entitled and whiny when we are complaining about not being allowed to use our 8 year old controllers on a new system when Xbox and Playstation have both somehow released excellent new consoles, with excellent new games and accessories during a GLOBAL PANDEMIC.

Everyone on here just loves to focus on the negative and it gets exhausting to constantly placate everyone on here lol.

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Okay?
Well their work with the Xbox division last few years have been pro consumer anyway. What they did in past decades doesn't take away from that.

 

[Jakenbakin]

Hey Arcade55 , Microsoft worked with Able Gamers to design the Xbox Adaptive Controller specifically to address the issue of accessibility in gaming. So to try and defend Sony in a thread about them arbitrarily locking disabled gamers from using their specialized equipment (that they had to go outside of Sony channels to even obtain) by laughing at the idea of Microsoft being pro consumer is really showing your ass. This isn't a thread about every anti consumer practice Sony and Microsoft have committed, it's about how these game companies, particularly Sony, have handled legacy hardware and what effects that has, and why they would do it that way.

Meanwhile you talk about "entitled and whiny", while apparently all too happy to ignore how ableist and shitty of an opinion that is in a thread that is trying to inform people that taking care of a marginalized group while supporting your optional features set are not mutually exclusive. You should really ask yourself who is entitled when people are fine targeting a marginalized group because they hope it means they get cooler rumble and triggers on their controllers, and they fear that accommodating for a group that could use more help might somehow negatively affect the market penetration of these optional features.

 

[RangerBAD]

It's anti-consumer and also ableist. The weight of the DS might be too heavy for me.

 

[Iron Eddie]

They believe in generations except when they don't. PS4 fightsticks and PS4 racing wheels work right now, out of the box. They'll be fully compatible with future PS5 titles.

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What are the PS5 driving wheels for example going to achieve that existing wheels don't? We have seen before certain games that come out that also require additional hardware, such as Guitar Hero and Rock Band. Driving wheels and flight sticks are kind of universal as they should be. Sony is going to want to promote the new DulaSense and its features that are not on the PS4 controller, and in order to get devs to embrace it more they will push to have devs adopt the new controller.

Whether we think it is right or wrong you also have to look at it from a business view. Sony also won't allow PS5 games to be played off an existing external hard drive. They want the system to be universal and make use of the SSD. It's just common practice on game consoles to expect gamers to upgrade all around. PSVR is one area Sony is making things complex because on one hand they believe in generations but on the other they don't want to talk about PSVR 2, so any future game that is either cross gen or PSD5 only will have to use the old hardware until PSVR 2 comes out. This is why I now concede that Sony should allow PS4 controllers across the board.

 

[Ricelord]

!. they want you to spend money for a new controller.

2. Pretty sure you cant use duel sense with a ps4.

 

[rokkerkory]

For the players... PS5 players!

 

[Jakenbakin]

Why is anyone talking about Sony "believing in generations." That's just marketing and it doesn't even mean anything.

Here's some more Sony marketing that proves it doesn't mean anything:

"For the players."

*Disabled person steps up*

"Wait not those players."

 

[Traxus]

Fair enough. So you are in agreement all PS5 non-cross gen games should only use the PS5 controller?

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The DualSense is awesome and we all want developers to use it. So that's cool, I'd be okay with that.

But then I think of Demon's Souls and how I had to claw-grip during the Flamelurker battle just so I could run and control the camera simultaneously when I could've been using my old DS4 with back-button attachment. It was just...kind of silly.

I tend to think the best solution is to just let players use whatever they want for maximum convenience and don't shoulder us with the burden of convincing developers to use the Dualsense features.

 

[2shd]

Like I said, I wish Sony would allow everyone to use their old controllers. I was merely commenting on the fact that this forum sounds very entitled and whiny when we are complaining about not being allowed to use our 8 year old controllers on a new system when Xbox and Playstation have both somehow released excellent new consoles, with excellent new games and accessories during a GLOBAL PANDEMIC.

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The "during a GLOBAL PANDEMIC" stinger to make reasonable criticism sound unreasonable here is a bit much here.

We're talking about blocking support for controllers that already are fully functional and compatible with the system. I find it hard to believe allowing DS4 support for PS5 games in this case is an extreme ask.

Perhaps Sony should let your extra controllers that are already fully recognized and working with the system not be software blocked, so your family can play too without having to spend an additional $70 during a GLOBAL PANDEMIC.

 

[PandemicOdin]

For me what is incredibly annoying is that you cannot use a Scuf controller on PS5 games now.

 

[hey it's that dog]

This would put those arguments back on the table.

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It would not. If it can be disabled, it's not essential to the experience according to Sony, who at the same time are claiming it's essential to the experience as the reason for not allowing DS4s. It's an option to go without it, just like using a DS4 would be. They are identical outcomes.

 

[OrangeNova]

Well there is a functional difference between a PS3 and PS4 controller. PS4 added a touchpad and lightbar, mostly for VR. You couldn't replicate that functionality on a PS3 controller. Also PS4 didn't support PS3 games anyway, so it would have been pointless to add that support in the first place.

PS2 to PS3 was a switch from wired to wireless, and adding gyro functions, and analog triggers. You couldn't replicate that on a PS2 controller.

PS4 and PS5 controllers functionally have all the same input controls. The extra features the PS5 controller does have, can be turned off, making it the same as the PS4 controller.

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I played most of my PS3 games at the start of the PS3 with a PS2 controller and a USB Adapter

 

[DerMarc]

You can't really argue that at least for accessibility reasons it should be an option.
There should be accessibility options. Why shouldn't the Dualshock 4 be one of them?

 

[construct]

i think the ps4 controller is fucking awful and have 3 of them and would never want to use them on my ps5. that said, locking out controllers is one of the worst things that happened from a hardware spec and it's purely a garbage business move.

 

[Traxus]

Here's some more Sony marketing that proves it doesn't mean anything:

"For the players."

*Disabled person steps up*

"Wait not those players."

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This has nothing to do with the DS4 / DS5. Can we leave the idiotic console war bullshit out of this thread? Sony first party games feature an insanely wide range of accessibility options; TLoU2 broke boundaries in that regard.

 

[construct]

This has nothing to do with the DS4 / DS5. Can we leave the idiotic console war bullshit out of this thread? Sony first party games feature an insanely wide range of accessibility options; TLoU2 broke boundaries in that regard.

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software accessibility is cool (ignoring its only a very small selection of games...), but hardware is just as important. have you considered that there are ps4 controllers are were heavily modified so that some people were able to play their ps4? any idea how much that kind of thing costs?

 

[Jakenbakin]

This has nothing to do with the DS4 / DS5. Can we leave the idiotic console war bullshit out of this thread? Sony first party games feature an insanely wide range of accessibility options; TLoU2 broke boundaries in that regard.

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Excuse me have you read this thread? Saying that Sony not supporting the DS4 has nothing to do with accessibility is flat out the most tone deaf possible conclusion you could draw from this thread by page 3. I'm a predominantly Sony player, so how is it "idiotic console war bullshit" to FACTUALLY state arbitrarily gatekeeping hardware includes gatekeeping disabled gamers that had to buy specialized equipment, modded controllers that can be extremely cost prohibitive? PLEASE, do go on about how TLOU2 made it so a one handed gamer can play the latest Call of Duty on PS5, I'm extremely interested in hearing about it.

 

[J-Soul]

They should just let you use a regular PS4 controller (not even the DualShock necessarily!) if the game doesn't use any DualSense-specific features. I can totally understand that Astro needs them, but Borderlands 3? Spider-Man? Fortnite? None of those games require adaptive triggers. Fuck, I turn the option off as soon as I can in most games :/

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Funny enough I was totally able to play through Astros Playroom with a DS4 on remote play. The DualSense Features are NEVER required. Unless you are specifically sending morse code to the player through haptics or something stupid like that they WILL NEVER be required.

 

[CorpseLight]

If you don't see the irony in hand waving decades of anti-consumer practices by one of the most anti-consumer corporations that has ever existed because they let you use your old stuff on their new console is, then I can't help you friend.

Like I said, I wish Sony would allow everyone to use their old controllers. I was merely commenting on the fact that this forum sounds very entitled and whiny when we are complaining about not being allowed to use our 8 year old controllers on a new system when Xbox and Playstation have both somehow released excellent new consoles, with excellent new games and accessories during a GLOBAL PANDEMIC.

Everyone on here just loves to focus on the negative and it gets exhausting to constantly placate everyone on here lol.

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It's not just being able to use older controllers on the new Xboxs.
In general I feel as if Microsoft as a whole has taken a different stance on their policies. Hell, you dont even really need to pay for Windows anymore if you're fine with having a watermark in the corner of your screen the whole time. They have been working more closely with Linux as well lately allowing people more freedom in OS's.

 

[EggmaniMN]

This has nothing to do with the DS4 / DS5. Can we leave the idiotic console war bullshit out of this thread? Sony first party games feature an insanely wide range of accessibility options; TLoU2 broke boundaries in that regard.

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One of them does. And it isn't Sony telling them to do that so it's irrelevant to this discussion.

I knew someone would try to use TLoU2 as a shield for this. It doesn't work.

 

[Night]

you can disable everything that makes the dualsense unique vs the dualshock 4 at a system-wide level.

and you can LITERALLY use a workaround to use the DS4 anyways (remote play), sony is just locking it out for no reason

there's no need to defend everything that a company does. they won't take your PS5 away

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Say a game requires the use of haptic feedback - what then?

Every decision you disagree with doesn't need to be a money-making scheme by Sony. It's been this way for a while and it makes even more sense with the DS.