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Aero

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,792
Unless we saw otherwise I was expecting the city to essentially be a (slightly?) bigger version of neusen plant, just a closed off combat area you warp to.

I would love to know if this was the plan all along for NGS and they just thought 4 regions with a rotation of "new" enemies and level cap increases were enough, or if they initially planned to add new regions/islands/planets but either NGS performed badly enough that they were scrapped or plans changed and Sega wanted to spend that money elsewhere instead.
 

lori

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,936
Unless we saw otherwise I was expecting the city to essentially be a (slightly?) bigger version of neusen plant, just a closed off combat area you warp to.

I would love to know if this was the plan all along for NGS and they just thought 4 regions with a rotation of "new" enemies and level cap increases were enough, or if they initially planned to add new regions/islands/planets but either NGS performed badly enough that they were scrapped or plans changed and Sega wanted to spend that money elsewhere instead.
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ThatMeanScene

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
9,862
Miami, FL
Unless we saw otherwise I was expecting the city to essentially be a (slightly?) bigger version of neusen plant, just a closed off combat area you warp to.

I would love to know if this was the plan all along for NGS and they just thought 4 regions with a rotation of "new" enemies and level cap increases were enough, or if they initially planned to add new regions/islands/planets but either NGS performed badly enough that they were scrapped or plans changed and Sega wanted to spend that money elsewhere instead.

I've been thinking the same thing; I bet that's what happened. Less money/resources spent on playable content for NGS while they focused more on extracting cash from the audience. That's certainly why AC Scratch banners release more often than they did during Base PSO2 and also why layering wear items became consumable tickets.

"Spend spend spend!" - Probably a live service finance person in Division 3

What they probably didn't count on is that their plan would flop with the majority of people resulting in just a couple hundred thousand new Global players (which has probably dwindled to less than 30,000 unique active Global players nowadays) and their existing hardcore audience in JP. They missed out on being part of the zeitgeist and being ultra successful. So all they can do for now is extract cash from the playerbase for as long as possible.


Thanks for that. The one place I used to frequent got spooked so I stopped reading about that stuff + a lack of interest on my end as I pivoted to spending more time in OW2 and Nikke.

I can only imagine that Sega will try again with a new game eventually. But will they wait until the SUPER games are up and running? Will they spend big bucks on a new PSO game instead of the lean approach they did with NGS?

My sincere hope is that someone at Sega is eventually able to do for PSO what Sega is doing for JSR and Crazy Taxi. IMO, with the right vision and design a new beefy PSO could do extremely well.
 

lori

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,936
I've been thinking the same thing; I bet that's what happened. Less money/resources spent on playable content for NGS while they focused more on extracting cash from the audience. That's certainly why AC Scratch banners release more often than they did during Base PSO2 and also why layering wear items became consumable tickets.

"Spend spend spend!" - Probably a live service finance person in Division 3

What they probably didn't count on is that their plan would flop with the majority of people resulting in just a couple hundred thousand new Global players (which has probably dwindled to less than 30,000 unique active Global players nowadays) and their existing hardcore audience in JP. They missed out on being part of the zeitgeist and being ultra successful. So all they can do for now is extract cash from the playerbase for as long as possible.



Thanks for that. The one place I used to frequent got spooked so I stopped reading about that stuff + a lack of interest on my end as I pivoted to spending more time in OW2 and Nikke.

I can only imagine that Sega will try again with a new game eventually. But will they wait until the SUPER games are up and running? Will they spend big bucks on a new PSO game instead of the lean approach they did with NGS?

My sincere hope is that someone at Sega is eventually able to do for PSO what Sega is doing for JSR and Crazy Taxi. IMO, with the right vision and design a new beefy PSO could do extremely well.
After what Midori said, it seems like they might try yet another NGS style expansion/rebrand of PSO2... It would be deeply unwise, but it's a very Sega move I guess.
 

Aero

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,792
I hope the next PSO is also added to this existing game like NGS was and it just becomes this horribly unwieldy cerberus of a game.
 

ThatMeanScene

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
9,862
Miami, FL
I hope whatever they do next is as disconnected from the PSO2 client as possible. Aside from gameplay content issues, overly complicated chance-based gear upgrade systems, absolutely boring skill tree abilities and gear, and the appearance of nickel and diming all over* the game also has terrible UI that needs to be left in the dust.

*I still find it sad that a game that prides itself on character customization doesn't let players freely customize without 'pass' items.





It would be neat if they eventually teased a new game or the lead up to it within NGS itself. Somehow I remembered when player sentiment wasn't as bad early on and it was exciting to run up to the region barriers and speculate over what we'd see in new regions. We got stuff like this:

A ghost?



View: https://twitter.com/TabaruNeko/status/1414750011682852864

A mysterious cube in a future region visible from the south tower Aelio



--

We also had this 😥 :

There are 3 other planets besides Halpha! 👍


Retem first week, half playerbase gone. What went wrong this time?




Its been quite a few years.
 

lori

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,936
I hope whatever they do next is as disconnected from the PSO2 client as possible. Aside from gameplay content issues, overly complicated chance-based gear upgrade systems, absolutely boring skill tree abilities and gear, and the appearance of nickel and diming all over* the game also has terrible UI that needs to be left in the dust.

*I still find it sad that a game that prides itself on character customization doesn't let players freely customize without 'pass' items.





It would be neat if they eventually teased a new game or the lead up to it within NGS itself. Somehow I remembered when player sentiment wasn't as bad early on and it was exciting to run up to the region barriers and speculate over what we'd see in new regions. We got stuff like this:

A ghost?



View: https://twitter.com/TabaruNeko/status/1414750011682852864

A mysterious cube in a future region visible from the south tower Aelio



--

We also had this 😥 :

There are 3 other planets besides Halpha! 👍


Retem first week, half playerbase gone. What went wrong this time?




Its been quite a few years.

I wouldn't be surprised if the 3 planet thing was the original play, considering series tradition. But this went over so badly...

I'm expecting it to be in the same client yet again, just so players get to keep their avatars and collab items without everything being renegotiated. The other issues (UI, skill trees, even drop systems) can absolutely be changed should they see fit.

The problem is that nobody has any reason to believe this team can do better when failure has been met only with more failure. YSOK isn't even there anymore. Faith going in is going to be at an all time low lol

Even if the game is actually good, which is unlikely, will enough people even care? Will Global last that long?????
 

Kumubou

Member
Oct 25, 2017
792
It wouldn't surprise me if a fair bit of their issues stem from having to deal with years (decades?) of technical debt. Given all the insane server issues that came up at launch, there's no possible way that this game could have been the hit that Sega wanted -- even if the game didn't have other critical quality issues, the technical problems on the server end would have squashed any chance of the game keeping the playerbase they wanted, even if the game otherwise warranted it. I wonder how much of that drove Sega's apparent decision to pull back support.

It is a project I would want to read a postmortem about, if nothing else.

I'm also willing to guess that the increased focus on cosmetics for scratches isn't just to squeeze whatever's left of the playerbase (although that's definitely part of it), but that it's also likely some of the only work they can do in NGS that would carry forward in a future game, either from the cosmetics carrying directly over or from Sega re-selling them. If the rumors of there being another PSO game being true (either as a remake/reimage of 1 or another attempt at something like NGS or what), how they handle the cosmetics for that and what (if anything) carries over from PSO2 and NGS is probably the single biggest issue they would have to address, especially since there's a number of ways they could go about it.
 

Lindsay

Member
Nov 4, 2017
3,138
If they bolt another thing onto PSO2 a.) lol b.) hope its actually a game this time! It'll mean I get to keep playing PSO2 but otoh that makes it so private servers are that much more further away ~_~ At least this makes it that much easier to not spend nmesata on gearing up but instead on fashions!

I've wondered for awhile if NGS would ever make it to the end of Ep1 much less have an Ep2 an the latter seems to be outta the question. I would love if it ended with an incomplete story. How do they even conclude it at this point?
 
Jun 1, 2021
5,211
What a huge mismanaged waste of potential. Just give the IP to someone competent and go from there. Will never happen sadly.

I expected the "new area" to be a combat area like the plant. I didn't want it to be well, yeh. Tried to hop back in and I just couldn't muster any enthusiasm to play. Maybe with the augment transfers and new "area" I'll hop back in again.
 

nicoga3000

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,987
What a huge mismanaged waste of potential. Just give the IP to someone competent and go from there. Will never happen sadly.

I expected the "new area" to be a combat area like the plant. I didn't want it to be well, yeh. Tried to hop back in and I just couldn't muster any enthusiasm to play. Maybe with the augment transfers and new "area" I'll hop back in again.

I have, on multiple occasions, reflected on my time with PSO, PSU, PSO:BB, and AotI. Those games were my most influential online gaming experiences next to WoW:WotLK. I really thought PSO2 and NGS were going to bring me back to those days...OG PSO2 JP was close, but it eventually turned into a fashion action game. But as time progressed the focus changed.

I would love for someone to come in and fix modern PSO. There's an untapped market ready to be taken advantage of...
 

lori

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,936
I'm also willing to guess that the increased focus on cosmetics for scratches isn't just to squeeze whatever's left of the playerbase (although that's definitely part of it),
I think they've always had a pretty strong reliance on cosmetics. To be honest, it's one of the main draws of the game, and I think other elements of even base PSO2's design support this. I'm going to use this as an excuse to pivot into talking about how we got here and how it impacted the game because there's nothing worth discussing coming up in NGS right now. It's not really a reply to your post so don't feel like you need to read all of this dfghjdfgh

In PSO1, people quite liked idling in the lobby and using it as a chatroom with their own custom anime characters, but y'know. It also had a lot of people who just treated it like Diablo 1 and put gameplay first, with gameplay systems to support it. The style kind of hits a perfect ground that appeals to a wider audience and cements its place in gaming history globally. You talk about Phantasy Star and chances are people are gonna be like "OH YEAH I loved that game on dreamcast/gamecube." When PSO2 was announced, and even during the long stretch of no localization, the casual consensus on these forums and their equivalents was still just "man i loved the first game it sucks we cant play the sequel"

In PSU... there's even more potential settings, more customization, and more to get attached to in regards to your own character, who can now (in theory) play every class, but at this time they didn't fully understand their audience yet. The overall tone of the game was very... shonen-like, strangely enough? At least with the story. It was initially supposed to be a much darker, more somber game, with a lot of PSO ep 3's music (including the main theme, shockingly enough) being originally planned for use in PSU, but lord knows what went on with the people calling the shots here. It was 2005-6 era SEGA. PSU didn't go over well, and damaged the brand in the eyes of most. "We just want more PSO" was a common sentiment.

With PSZ and PSP2 around the same time, they tried two different approaches, elementary school kids and horny young teenagers. PSZ failed, effectively dooming PSO style gameplay. PSP2 was a pretty big success for them, and PSO2, which was in the works at the time, seemed greatly impacted by this. Let's take a look at PSO2's earliest known footage!


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-FPk-u-FqM

As you can see, it was a bit more militaristic in tone... you're fighting with steel military weapons against giant bugs attacking town. Fairly grounded compared to what it'd turn into past episode 1! It also makes the class designs also click a bit more, even if a lot of them were very tacky and all but 2 female designs had a mandatory thigh window. They wanted more metal plating and for you to be more of a "soldier" than a "hunter," or at least that was my read.

Then you have PSP2 and 2i's success, especially 2i's, with them finding out their biggest source of potential money is via cosmetic microtransactions vs the old sub fee method. They also realized who was paying, so they quadrupled down on that, with each episode descending further and further into just making it the generic sci fi otaku IP that has every trope that one could possibly want. I suspect this played a large part in their decision to not localize it, at the time, as it went REALLY heavy on a specific subset of players in Japan.

What I wanted to talk about the most though was how this bled into the design of the games, the "social" aspect of it! It's always been a part of the series, but it hasn't ever really been properly capitalized on beyond PSO ver 2's introduction of lobby soccer... As PSO2 episode 1 progressed, they started pushing it more and more toward the urgent quests having all of the best drops and rewards. As-in, other content actively started becoming meaningless, with the common areas falling off for the most part (a few exceptions here and there, incl. COs.) I think this was on purpose. They could show up both scheduled and unscheduled, so you could plan your play session around the scheduled ones, then hang around longer for unscheduled UQs/EQs in between or after.

Basically, lobby gremlins got extra opportunities to get the best rewards in the game and... well, the best opportunities to play the game at all, really, since past a certain point there wasn't anything worth doing beyond UQ/EQs. If you're idling in the lobby, you might as well chat with the others and show off your avatar, the representation of you and your interests that you've likely invested significant time (and maybe money) into. For the longest time, I didn't realize this and thought PSO2 didn't have content simply because they were bad at planning. Maybe for episode 5 that was true, but for most of the game? I think they wanted it this way. Who are you showing that avatar of yours off to if you aren't hanging around in the lobbies???

I think it's ironic that, even though this worked quite well, the most common piece of feedback from all regions for NGS was "please don't put urgent quests in the game." I don't think anyone really enjoyed the way they structured the game, but endured anyways because they liked their avatar/the gameplay. Now NGS bungled the gameplay, and their attempted solution was "we should focus more heavily on making social better so we at least keep the people who pay." Maybe this is working on Japan...????? I sure do hope they don't waste their next attempt trying to chase 2014 again, though.
 

Lindsay

Member
Nov 4, 2017
3,138
Didn't know people disliked UQs. I think they've been neat but every game is different from the last so I wouldn't mind if they weren't in PSO3/PSU2/PSWhatevs. PSO2 certainly shoulda nabbed some of the neat stuff PSP2i has but maybe a future game will. I'd sure hope they kept emergency codes if they returned to dungeon crawler PS than whatever NGS is.

Still bummed so many people didn't like PSU nor PSO2 because they're not PSO. Like there's a whole genre of yaknowwhat-likes that have all the slow, clunky "action" rpg stuff PSO lovers should in theory love! Though I guess those usually aren't multiplayer which could be an issue. December 2025 would be the 25th anniversary of PSO so ya would think they'd be preparing something like a new game in the series to at least have a trailer for. I read that before PSU JP ended they gave people the opportunity to transfer remaining Guardians Cash into PSO2 as Arks Cash. Can NGS limp along long enough for a similar transition though?
 

batfax

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,416
I do probably see the most social NGS stuff from Japanese Twitter, so it probably checks out that the main audience eating up all the building parts and outfits and stuff are Japanese fans even if it feels like Global fans are becoming less and less interested. It's also definitely true that PSO2 base eventually felt like it was almost entirely driven around EQs and that EQs are a lot less interesting now that they're pretty much the only new form of spectacle and they're gated behind equipment that isn't fun to grind and you get looked down on for not taking the time to do so if you only meet the bare minimum requirements. It makes the whole game feel tedious and unappealing, even if the bosses are still decently cool and still have great music. Definitely agree that the feel of PSO2 also started strong but eventually led into shonen anime territory while the original PSO's feel was probably more easily likened to something like Resident Evil but with cosmic horror mixed into the science run amuck and magic viruses.

Though something I think you're underselling regarding the original PSO's social aspect is how closely it was tied into the core gameplay. Section IDs are still probably the biggest brained feature for requiring a player to know different people who can help find better equipment more easily, as well as having it matter for things like raising your mag into different forms. Mags themselves also being both a massive timesink and being something a versatile player has multiple of, but allowing you to literally give them away to a newer player if you wanted to give them a leg up, along with any equipment you can't/don't use. Pretty sure I've said it before last time when classic PSO came up, but easily the biggest part of the community experience of the original game was just allowing and encouraging positive interactions between people and not gating it behind a subscription or flat out not allowing it at all. As it is now, in base and especially NGS, you really have little reason not to play mostly with people you already know, or just alone. Meeting new people isn't really encouraged, with it seeming like joining a random's party being solely for getting better odds in a EQ and then disbanding. There's very little significant way you can help anyone.
 

lori

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,936
Though something I think you're underselling regarding the original PSO's social aspect is how closely it was tied into the core gameplay. Section IDs are still probably the biggest brained feature for requiring a player to know different people who can help find better equipment more easily, as well as having it matter for things like raising your mag into different forms. Mags themselves also being both a massive timesink and being something a versatile player has multiple of, but allowing you to literally give them away to a newer player if you wanted to give them a leg up, along with any equipment you can't/don't use. Pretty sure I've said it before last time when classic PSO came up, but easily the biggest part of the community experience of the original game was just allowing and encouraging positive interactions between people and not gating it behind a subscription or flat out not allowing it at all. As it is now, in base and especially NGS, you really have little reason not to play mostly with people you already know, or just alone. Meeting new people isn't really encouraged, with it seeming like joining a random's party being solely for getting better odds in a EQ and then disbanding. There's very little significant way you can help anyone.
Oh, absolutely. Social aspects tied heavily more into actual direct gameplay in PSO1, while in PSO2 it's largely felt as separate. It's... it's kind of hard to specify, to be honest, but I'm referring more to the specific lobby idler type of social player, you know?

I tried to cut my words on PSO1 short because if I go on about that game it'll probably hit whatever resetera's very generous word limit is.
 

batfax

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,416
Yeah, fair. If there is one thing PSO2 did really impressively compared to the original game it's that it made it WAY MORE FUN to be a lobby rat. Climbing around to get into odd places, doing group poses/dances, letting hijinks ensue and all that. Then the casino games and restaurant... There was just a lot to mess around with. I know I've wasted a lot of time just shooting the shit with friends on Discord while playing Black Nyack.
 

Lindsay

Member
Nov 4, 2017
3,138
Nyau's a cheater but the 1 whole time I got to play with a group in Blacknyack it was fun. I mostly stick to the Rappy Slots overall cause rappys are great! Anytime I see people in NGS being like "casino when" or "I miss the casino" I'm like hey theres one its still there come play but no one ever does...
 

Biestmann

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,413
PSU got way too much hate back then. It still was a game that made hunting for things fun. I cannot really say the same for PSO2. That one just made it feel like a waste of time.
 

Aero

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,792
I was extremely late to the part on PSU so I only really played it single player, but I liked the story mode and thought it was fun how the main game was all original characters then in Ambition of the Illuminus you use your own created character and meet all those characters after the events of the base game.
 

ThatMeanScene

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
9,862
Miami, FL
I'm expecting it to be in the same client yet again, just so players get to keep their avatars and collab items without everything being renegotiated. The other issues (UI, skill trees, even drop systems) can absolutely be changed should they see fit.

The problem is that nobody has any reason to believe this team can do better when failure has been met only with more failure. YSOK isn't even there anymore. Faith going in is going to be at an all time low lol

Even if the game is actually good, which is unlikely, will enough people even care? Will Global last that long?????

I don't mind them keeping the brand to avoid re-licensing everything. Though keeping the "PSO2" name with probably hurt them in the west as people will think its still the old game. Look at how people are clamoring for a "Destiny 3" to reset things and set new stuff apart from Destiny 2.

Regardless of what they do they really need to overhaul everything and not attach inventory systems, etc. to the old games. Just save our cosmetic items to the server and let Base PSO2/NGS be squashed together while PSO3/PSOnext is its own thing with revamped UX.

And hell, they have to work on their network model too. If I'm in an area with just 1 player why is their character constantly warping around the place and occasionally just standing still when they're actually attacking? Its a terrible experience that makes your game look ancient and cheap.

It wouldn't surprise me if a fair bit of their issues stem from having to deal with years (decades?) of technical debt. Given all the insane server issues that came up at launch, there's no possible way that this game could have been the hit that Sega wanted -- even if the game didn't have other critical quality issues, the technical problems on the server end would have squashed any chance of the game keeping the playerbase they wanted, even if the game otherwise warranted it. I wonder how much of that drove Sega's apparent decision to pull back support.

It is a project I would want to read a postmortem about, if nothing else.

Yes, their network model + other systems need to be replaced or revamped (whatever is most applicable). I'm super curious as to what happened. I'd buy a tell-all book if someone would make one (we'll probably never even get honest forthcoming interviews about NGS). lol

I'm also willing to guess that the increased focus on cosmetics for scratches isn't just to squeeze whatever's left of the playerbase (although that's definitely part of it), but that it's also likely some of the only work they can do in NGS that would carry forward in a future game, either from the cosmetics carrying directly over or from Sega re-selling them. If the rumors of there being another PSO game being true (either as a remake/reimage of 1 or another attempt at something like NGS or what), how they handle the cosmetics for that and what (if anything) carries over from PSO2 and NGS is probably the single biggest issue they would have to address, especially since there's a number of ways they could go about it.

I agree. Hopefully they carry over NGS cosmetics at the very least and just have them registered account wide going forward (none of this use 2 tickets nonsense). Let the individual games access the backend for the cosmetics and don't sync the characters across the old PSO2 games and whatever PSOnext is.


Didn't know people disliked UQs. I think they've been neat but every game is different from the last so I wouldn't mind if they weren't in PSO3/PSU2/PSWhatevs. PSO2 certainly shoulda nabbed some of the neat stuff PSP2i has but maybe a future game will. I'd sure hope they kept emergency codes if they returned to dungeon crawler PS than whatever NGS is.

Emergency Codes/Trials is just standard now with other games using the same concept (like Destiny). Even if they returned to narrow instanced quests I think they would keep Trials as they serve to spice up repeated playthroughs of the quests. I think the huge failure with Trials in NGS is that they are the *ONLY * somewhat interesting enemy engagement in an area aside from Veteran bosses (which quickly becoming uninteresting and rarely drop anything decent). They just relied on Trials and 99% of them are just kill 'X' enemies aside from the one Trial where you hunt the Dazzle Pods (floating robot things).

It was a very poor decision to have just fodder MOBs as the main enemy engagement and then rely on Trials to keep players engaged.

Still bummed so many people didn't like PSU nor PSO2 because they're not PSO. Like there's a whole genre of yaknowwhat-likes that have all the slow, clunky "action" rpg stuff PSO lovers should in theory love! Though I guess those usually aren't multiplayer which could be an issue. December 2025 would be the 25th anniversary of PSO so ya would think they'd be preparing something like a new game in the series to at least have a trailer for. I read that before PSU JP ended they gave people the opportunity to transfer remaining Guardians Cash into PSO2 as Arks Cash. Can NGS limp along long enough for a similar transition though?

I wouldn't mind a PSO game somewhere between PSO1's combat and PSO2/NGS's combat. I am definitely not a fan of Souls-like combat even if it somewhat resembles PSO's; its too slow, punishing, and boring.

I was not a fan of PSU despite playing it the entire time the Xbox 360 version was available (fun fact: I still am the largest contributor to Giant Bomb's PSU wiki page). I played it because it was all there was. But I did not like the character designs, world design, map design, etc. It all felt like a noticeable downgrade from PSO. And no Mags, lobby counters where everywhere which segmented the playerbase, newer quests completely overshadowed old content in drops and reward points (I forgot what they were called), terrible item crafting... It gives me a headache just recalling PSU.


Definitely agree that the feel of PSO2 also started strong but eventually led into shonen anime territory while the original PSO's feel was probably more easily likened to something like Resident Evil but with cosmic horror mixed into the science run amuck and magic viruses.

I'm so desperate for a new PSO game to bring back that style of story and atmosphere. And to tone down the anime a bit too. Fuck, give me a toggle where the game displays lore accurate cosmetics only too so I can avoid seeing moe characters and all that other stuff that doesn't fit in the game's world.

Though something I think you're underselling regarding the original PSO's social aspect is how closely it was tied into the core gameplay. Section IDs are still probably the biggest brained feature for requiring a player to know different people who can help find better equipment more easily, as well as having it matter for things like raising your mag into different forms. Mags themselves also being both a massive timesink and being something a versatile player has multiple of, but allowing you to literally give them away to a newer player if you wanted to give them a leg up, along with any equipment you can't/don't use. Pretty sure I've said it before last time when classic PSO came up, but easily the biggest part of the community experience of the original game was just allowing and encouraging positive interactions between people and not gating it behind a subscription or flat out not allowing it at all. As it is now, in base and especially NGS, you really have little reason not to play mostly with people you already know, or just alone. Meeting new people isn't really encouraged, with it seeming like joining a random's party being solely for getting better odds in a EQ and then disbanding. There's very little significant way you can help anyone.

Section ID was a great system but its too inconvient for today's audience. I do agree wholeheartedly on how PSO2/NGS hurt the social aspect outside sititng in lobbies. The lack of trading and gifting just to support the personal shop is really terrible.

That reminds me that they should revisit how they handle monetization. Salon Pass and Color Items, Boosters, Material Storage not included in Premium, Premium still not feeling rewarding enough, tiny inventory and storage space so you're forced to buy more storage, purchase additional skill tree profiles, etc. All that stuff needs to go just like the Skill Tree Reset did.
 

nicoga3000

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,987
PSU got way too much hate back then. It still was a game that made hunting for things fun. I cannot really say the same for PSO2. That one just made it feel like a waste of time.

I loved PSU when it came out, but it was definitely a big change. PSP2i with the translation patch is probably the best PSO game out right now. I know Clementine exists, but I didn't invest much time there simply because the servers were sort of a mystery at times.
 
Jun 1, 2021
5,211
Clementines fantastic nowadays. It's the best version of online psu going. No story mode or partner npcs sadly but there's plenty of new content. There currently working on an ultimate mode.

There also working on private servers for base pso2. Sadly they will never launch this until you can't play base pso2 anywhere officially 😭
 

nicoga3000

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,987
Clementines fantastic nowadays. It's the best version of online psu going. No story mode or partner npcs sadly but there's plenty of new content. There currently working on an ultimate mode.

There also working on private servers for base pso2. Sadly they will never launch this until you can't play base pso2 anywhere officially 😭

If that's the case, it's time for me to boot back into it!
 

lori

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,936
Clementines fantastic nowadays. It's the best version of online psu going. No story mode or partner npcs sadly but there's plenty of new content. There currently working on an ultimate mode.

There also working on private servers for base pso2. Sadly they will never launch this until you can't play base pso2 anywhere officially 😭
Yeah, I have a fair bit of fun on Clementine. It's not PSO, it's not as good as PSO, it isn't a replacement for it in any means, but I'm okay with that I think as a fun little side game. I think it ironically made the scale of each planet feel much larger than NGS managed to with 1, lol

PSU era was also the last one where you could just, you know, go into an area and Do Content and be rewarded for it
 

Lindsay

Member
Nov 4, 2017
3,138
"Going forward, Seasonal Event weapons will be listed in the Seasonal Points Exchange Shop with an Enhancement Level of +80.

Accordingly, please note that future Seasonal Event weapons will not be usable as Enhancement Materials. *If you need Enhancement Materials, please use the Gold Primm Sword II with a +60 Enhancement Level, which will also be listed."
They gonna keep squeezing us til the very end huh? Maybe the next (bolted on?) games improvements they wanna be able to hype up is that it sucks less to upgrade? I'm pretty sure any weapon/unit in PSO2 can be used as upgrade material so unless I'm wrong, this goes on the "idk why this is even a thing in NGS because in PSO2..." list alongside stuff like how they messed up boosters in NGS.

Next up: expect them so stealth "fix" Dext Base PSE length!

btw the hair rerun scratch has been going well for me. Love seeing the prices take big dives and scooping up styles I've longed for! The rewind collection otoh also has stuff I want but it looks like next to nobodys been scratching that judging by prices x.x

And hell, they have to work on their network model too. If I'm in an area with just 1 player why is their character constantly warping around the place and occasionally just standing still when they're actually attacking? Its a terrible experience that makes your game look ancient and cheap.
Ya NGS has serious cases of I guess, desynch? People running in place then super jumping on some kinda loop. Or those people who just remain a black unloaded figure out in fields even if you're right up against 'em. An what you described which is super annoying cause it makes it hard to tell if someones leeching or not!

I wouldn't mind a PSO game somewhere between PSO1's combat and PSO2/NGS's combat.
What would that be? Not PSØ I hope x.x
 
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lori

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,936
What would that be? Not PSØ I hope x.x
Kinda?

The main difference would be emphasis on normal attacks in PSO, with separate strengths (and special moves) at different accuracies, with lights usually always hitting and heavies/specials having lower accuracy than lights. Each step of the 3 hit combo improves accuracy, so a heavy that might have a 75% chance normally might be near guaranteed if done after a light. Hitstun management and weapon swapping between ranged and AoE options as well as angling yourself correctly is the combat depth. Good play still involves Not Getting Hit, unlike a lot of games in this genre that focus on loot.

PSZ made the game faster, added photon arts, removed specials, and added a lot of enemies that couldn't be fought like enemies in PSO, so instead they added a long reaching dodge roll with iframes and let you cancel attack recoveries with it. It's kind of a middle ground, though it shares core gameplay concepts with PSO, the execution at higher level play is pretty different lol
 
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Aero

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,792
"Going forward, Seasonal Event weapons will be listed in the Seasonal Points Exchange Shop with an Enhancement Level of +80.

Accordingly, please note that future Seasonal Event weapons will not be usable as Enhancement Materials. *If you need Enhancement Materials, please use the Gold Primm Sword II with a +60 Enhancement Level, which will also be listed."
They gonna keep squeezing us til the very end huh? Maybe the next (bolted on?) games improvements they wanna be able to hype up is that it sucks less to upgrade? I'm pretty sure any weapon/unit in PSO2 can be used as upgrade material so unless I'm wrong, this goes on the "idk why this is even a thing in NGS because in PSO2..." list alongside stuff like how they messed up boosters in NGS.
They saw people using the last seasonal weapon to quickly get their Reyaars to +80 and said no fun allowed.
 

Kalentan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,745
So at this point...

should I just fully quit? I feel like I've been playing less and less and it just seems like the game is going nowhere... I thought there seemed like there was maybe a shift... but that clearly hasn't panned out. I've considered it and even talked about it in here before, but this really feels like the moment to finally make the decision.

Clementines fantastic nowadays. It's the best version of online psu going. No story mode or partner npcs sadly but there's plenty of new content. There currently working on an ultimate mode.

Like actual new content?
 

lori

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,936
Like actual new content?
yes! they've even added new photon arts by recycling parts of older ones. and keep in mind, this is japanese PC PSU, so it's LEAGUES ahead of what american players would've known PSU as during its official run. i can't emphasize enough just how primitive NA PSU was in comparison lol
 
Jun 1, 2021
5,211
So at this point...

should I just fully quit? I feel like I've been playing less and less and it just seems like the game is going nowhere... I thought there seemed like there was maybe a shift... but that clearly hasn't panned out. I've considered it and even talked about it in here before, but this really feels like the moment to finally make the decision.



Like actual new content?

Already answered but yeh. There still learning how to add and edit the game even now. They recently did a big balance pass and smoothed out xp gain. Apparently it's a nightmare to edit the code. Pretty impressive.
 

ThatMeanScene

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
9,862
Miami, FL
So at this point...

should I just fully quit? I feel like I've been playing less and less and it just seems like the game is going nowhere... I thought there seemed like there was maybe a shift... but that clearly hasn't panned out. I've considered it and even talked about it in here before, but this really feels like the moment to finally make the decision.

Unintentionally, this is the perfect game to jump in and play the real new content (not recycled stuff that's called "new") in less than a day and come back months later when there's something else new. Its especially easy with Leciel augment capsules designed as catch-up augs and with whatever the new weapons/armor being somewhat easy to obtain (as long as you bother to stick around long enough to use it even tho there isn't much reason to).
 

Kalentan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,745
yes! they've even added new photon arts by recycling parts of older ones. and keep in mind, this is japanese PC PSU, so it's LEAGUES ahead of what american players would've known PSU as during its official run. i can't emphasize enough just how primitive NA PSU was in comparison lol

I might have to try to play more. I think I did install it not too long ago. Though I remember it feeling a little rough coming from PSP2i lol
 

Lindsay

Member
Nov 4, 2017
3,138
No maintainence on the 30th = hurrah! But that still means its coming this week ~_~ Wonder when they'll info dump the next event goodies on us? Its not like 'em to leave us in suspense like this. They always tell an show their entire hands when it comes to updates... except when Solus was introduced via cutscene at first login. Didn't see that coming! Speaking of which the budget must be deader than dead since Dalion didn't get a cutscene.

PSZ made the game faster, added photon arts, removed specials, and added a lot of enemies that couldn't be fought like enemies in PSO, so instead they added a long reaching dodge roll with iframes and let you cancel attack recoveries with it. It's kind of a middle ground, though it shares core gameplay concepts with PSO, the execution at higher level play is pretty different lol
Ya I dunno about PSZ being faster. It felt real slow to me and the combat clunky and the roll useless... and thats aside from me being bad at it! I wouldn't wanna go back to that!

They saw people using the last seasonal weapon to quickly get their Reyaars to +80 and said no fun allowed.
I don't get it like they know their games dead right so why not loosen up alil?

yes! they've even added new photon arts by recycling parts of older ones. and keep in mind, this is japanese PC PSU, so it's LEAGUES ahead of what american players would've known PSU as during its official run. i can't emphasize enough just how primitive NA PSU was in comparison lol
All of thats great but missing the NPCs is kinda killer. I get not having the story an I could play those if I want (rip Ep3 though...) but not keeping the characters is weird. Especially cause they don't just show up in the story but other sidequests and events I think?
 

lori

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,936
Ya I dunno about PSZ being faster. It felt real slow to me and the combat clunky and the roll useless... and thats aside from me being bad at it! I wouldn't wanna go back to that!
The movement is basically copied straight from PSU and the roll is more of a cancel/safety positioning tool outside of certain boss attacks. It's absolutely faster than PSO. I'd still rather just play PSO though
 

Aero

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,792
This will probably be the minority opinion, but I'm way into them adding a card game.
 
Jun 1, 2021
5,211
I'd be more into it if we had sufficient content in the actual game. But cool for those that like it.

Shocker though, what if for the PSO2 anniversary you actually helped out base PSO2?

Also Jesus Christ, how small is there dev team that they have to spread out class balance / reworks every four months. Crazy.
 

batfax

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,416
There's been a small but determined group that's been asking for a card game mode for probably a decade at this point. Even if I dunno that I'll be into it, it's still kinda cool just to see it finally happen.
 

Aero

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,792
Card game aside, I do appreciate them giving us a reaction gif for NGS Headlines

P459nap.gif
 

Lindsay

Member
Nov 4, 2017
3,138
No mention of freebie catchup gears. That stinks! Usual event stuff, ok cool I'll take more PSO2 accessories and stuff.

- Remix Motions scratch? Think they reached the bottom of the barrel now that they're selling mirrored versions of existing stuff
- Rerun LQ from last year just fighting 2 old bosses yet again should take less time to queue for at least
- Battledia: Starless edition... no thanks
- Another urban/cyberpunk scratch zzZz
- A new LQ with multiple paths... except not really cause week 1 its first path and week 2 its second path
- Atelier Ryza/Marie not my Aterliers hopes theres at least a barrel or puni accessory
- Crimson Realm back for 1 week still in Kvaris' bad combat sectors, I pass
- Dalion UQ ver. hmm no not gonna touch this either
- Finally a new refined form scratch but from whats shown I don't think I'd wanna waste sgs on it
- Another quiz LQ which means loads of waiting and loads of loading
- Elegnant Harmony scratch looks bland to me
- Class balance changes coming over the course of an entire year by the looks of things since its 1 class at a time. June (fighter), October (techter), February '25 (force), June '25 (hunter)
- More fashion slots but only for prem so bleh
- Code Geass is another do not want collab

Oh theres the card game thing to I guess. I gots less then 0 interest in card games so naturally I'll be ignoring that. But I do wanna say that 1 look at the cards pictured in the images indicate another looonnnggg dripfeed incoming. All those cards look to be PSO2 Ep.1 or Oracle Arc in general. When stuff like classes and LC updates are every 4 months expect this cardgame to... not be finished by the time EOS hits lol cause ya know they're gonna have Ep2/3/4/5/6 expansions and probably the various sidegames as well like ES and Idola, maybe even Nova an going by the 4 months rule thats at least 2 years worth of time. Now how'll ya get the new cards is a question. AC? SG? GP? Freely automatically added to the game when they drop? I dunno or care! They're doing a boring old card game instead of making an arcade full of the various games they have ported to (almost) every platform via Yakuza >_<!! Heck Yakuza's own non-arcade mini-games beat the pants offa yet another card game imo. Bowling! Darts! Minigolf! Karaoke! Something anything would be better!!
 

Lindsay

Member
Nov 4, 2017
3,138
They showed off a Harriet card at one point so that's Episode 5 stuff there.
Must be in the video since I don't see it in the bumped screenshots but while looking em over again I did spot a Xiera so thats something. If they do go all out and release the entire thing at once that'll be merciful!
 

ThatMeanScene

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
9,862
Miami, FL
For posterity (and any lurkers catching up) here's the Headline link again:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsCm-ypdbyw

Bumped's recap:


I'll take the boosts and them dropping 11-star Wingard weapons into the Crimson Realm which may result in a drop or two on PSO2 Day with lots of boosts stacked up (I personally still hate boosts being a thing; cheapens the game like AC Support Scratches but oh well).

The item enhancement boosts are nice - they seem to be in line with Super Genesis Festival - but they honestly feel like a short term band-aid that helps make up for how awful and unfriendly their systems are. Let's not ignore that the cost to limit break, enhance, augment, level up potentials, and multi-weapon is over 2 million N-Meseta just for one weapon.

The recycled quests are not exciting and the free draws on Scratches with stuff I already have doesn't do it for me either. Neither does Base PSO2 stuff returning.

Not-a-real-edit edit: Oh wait, I forgot about increasing saved looks to 40 for Premium Set users. Dude, up that to 60 or 80 or 100. 20 more is not enough for some folks (read: Me -_-).





Here's tonight's web site posts:
4/24 Update details
Web Comic: CENTRAL! Episode 127 available now!
4/23 Events and campaigns4/23
New AC Scratch Ticket: Noble Shadows
AC Support Item Select May '24 Planned for Release!

-- Edited to include more posts ( )
4/24 End of scheduled maintenance announcement
Balance adjustments, including downward revisions, scheduled for 4/10 (Updated 4/24/2024 1:00 AM (PDT))
4/24 Known Issues update announcement
Questions and feedback featured in the NGS Headline broadcast on 4/23 (Tue)

From the Updated details post:
From the end of scheduled maintenance on 4/23/2024 (Tue) (EDT) until the start of scheduled maintenance on 5/21/2024 (Tue) (EDT), all Urgent Quests that occur in the Stia Region will be changed to the Urgent Quest: Happy Rappy Rumble: Stia.
*Please note that no other Urgent Quests will be available in the Stia Region during this period.


Still ongoing:
4/10 Premium Sets with phabulous bonus items are now available!
Gear up your Class! Special Campaign (Ranger and Bouncer)

Re-linking to this month's page:
April 2024 Updates Page



Bumped's link and excerpt:
https://www.bumped.org/phantasy/pso2-ngs-jp-maintenance-04-24-2024/

What We Getting Tonight?

Super Origin Festival!
3rd Anniversary Event
Anni Rappy & Anni Empe Rappy
Seasonal Point Exchange Shop

ARKS Record – Field Race: Stia Outskirts Dash (Stage 1)
Limited Emergency Quest: Happy Rappy Operation: Stia
Limited Quest: Halpha Experimental Zone Sweep Part 2
Anniversary SP Scratch
AC Scratch: Noble Shadows

Bumped's Noble Shadows page:



Events starting at the end of the month is so weird. Anyway, I beat the Duel Quest Phase 4 boss with standard augs and gear reaching 163ish% potency (Reyaar Boots/Blade Fixa Termina 5 and Einea Armor Fixa Orgsys 3 on all three all with LC augs and some Exdi). It took a while to practice the fight to learn the patterns so I could dodge most attacks; it's nice that finishing just under 5 minutes nabs the S-Rank unlike with Duel Phase 1 - 3.

I'll probably try Dalion this week after I replace my augs with Lux, Glan, Gladia Soul and other S augs I got from the SG Support Scratch which I spent 5,000 SG on. I'm looking forward to the AC Support Scratch; I used to be real against it but what are you gonna do. I want to hit stuff extra hard too ya know?
 
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Kalentan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,745
Unintentionally, this is the perfect game to jump in and play the real new content (not recycled stuff that's called "new") in less than a day and come back months later when there's something else new. Its especially easy with Leciel augment capsules designed as catch-up augs and with whatever the new weapons/armor being somewhat easy to obtain (as long as you bother to stick around long enough to use it even tho there isn't much reason to).

I think honestly, yeah, I think I'll just put it down and login... whenever they decide to properly update the game again. Not like I'm missing much from the BP's, I feel like the rewards in those have been pretty terrible for awhile now.

But I might try to play Clementine... Anyone know how active it is? While I know so much of PSO and PSU you can solo, it would be cool if I could coop if needs be.