KennyLinder

Game Designer at EA
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
3,685
I am looking to buy a Japanese PS3 so I can play my Japanese PS2 and PS1 games on it. It's a decent solution for HDMI without going down the road of upscalers (and I like the phat design)

So I know only a handful of PS3's had hardware support, models such as CECH-A00 etc.

My question is that an Ebay shop has told me that Sony removed b/c from these models via a FW update, which came around the time the newer, non EE/GS chipset models came out, so everything was aligned.

I find this hard to believe since the CECH-A00 models had the hardware chipset.

So, did Firmware updates remove PS2 b/c from these older PS3 models? Thanks!
 

Transistor

The Walnut King
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
37,558
Washington, D.C.
BC wasn't removed from the hardware capable models via a firmware update (to my knowledge). That seems like it would be a legal nightmare, especially after the OtherOS stuff.

I had an OG 60GB up through 2011 and it still played PS2 games just fine (and all models play PS1 games)
 

psynergyadept

Shinra Employee
Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,985
They have have to be lying to you or misinformed, no way would they take away B/C it would've created quite the uproar, I haven't updated my PS3 phat in awhile(since 2010 or 2011?) but I'm still able to play PS2 titles on it.
 

Jockel

Member
Oct 27, 2017
693
Berlin
I'd like to add that playing PS1 and PS2 games via PS3 unfortunately isn't as cool as you'd think. To me it felt quite laggy with a soft image, I much prefer to use the original systems with an OSSC. Interlaced content sucks, though.
 

Symphony

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,361
Sony never removed BC via firmware updates, they have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. Just make sure you don't spend much money on it, those old chunky PS3's are critically flawed and it will YLOD on you at some point (realistically any that hasn't already either has seen little use, has been "repaired" before or is on its last legs).
 

Dis

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,026
I have a ps3 from UK launch without the hardware but software base emulation backwards compatibility and it still works to this day. I don't think it was removed from the hardware models by update because it makes no sense to do that and leave my console with the software solution doing it just fine.
 
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KennyLinder

KennyLinder

Game Designer at EA
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
3,685
That's what I thought! I actually had a launch PS3 USA model and it never had issues.

The ebay shop has emailed me back saying they've now tested it with a PS2 game and it didn't work. Maybe the machine is faulty.
 

Transistor

The Walnut King
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
37,558
Washington, D.C.
That's what I thought! I actually had a launch PS3 USA model and it never had issues.

The ebay shop has emailed me back saying they've now tested it with a PS2 game and it didn't work. Maybe the machine is faulty.
I wouldn't buy it. Like Symphony mentioned above, old PS3s are just so prone to failure at this point that they're frankly not worth it.
 
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KennyLinder

KennyLinder

Game Designer at EA
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
3,685
Sony never removed BC via firmware updates, they have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. Just make sure you don't spend much money on it, those old chunky PS3's are critically flawed and it will YLOD on you at some point (realistically any that hasn't already either has seen little use, has been "repaired" before or is on its last legs).

Thanks for the advice, and I know you're right about it. I just love that old design and it would be good to play my older Japanese games again :/ Probably best to skip
 

asmith906

Member
Oct 27, 2017
27,765
That's what I thought! I actually had a launch PS3 USA model and it never had issues.

The ebay shop has emailed me back saying they've now tested it with a PS2 game and it didn't work. Maybe the machine is faulty.
Either that machine isn't BC or the laser in the system is faulty. If I remember correctly BC PS3's have a dual laser assembly. One laser reads PS3 games and the other is for PS2 games.
 
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KennyLinder

KennyLinder

Game Designer at EA
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
3,685
Either that machine isn't BC or the laser in the system is faulty. If I remember correctly BC PS3's have a dual laser assembly. One laser reads PS3 games and the other is for PS2 games.

Yeah I wondered about the laser. Based on the model (CECH-A00), it should play PS2 games fine. That machine is one to avoid, I suspect.
 
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KennyLinder

KennyLinder

Game Designer at EA
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
3,685
Maybe the PS3 in question needs to go into safe mode and go back to factory, although that's clutching at straws
 

linkboy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,819
Reno
Sony never removed BC via firmware updates, they have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. Just make sure you don't spend much money on it, those old chunky PS3's are critically flawed and it will YLOD on you at some point (realistically any that hasn't already either has seen little use, has been "repaired" before or is on its last legs).

Has there been any update on the NEC capacitor fix?
 

Ultratech

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,386
Is that something that can resolve the YLOD issue?

Basically someone a few years ago figured out that a lot of the YLOD issues on fat PS3s were being caused due to faulty capacitors that were used in production.
Ironically, reflowing the system did help alleviate the issue though this was for the wrong reason at the time. (Turns out it wasn't bad soldering like people thought.)

See here:
The usual cause for this light to appear is due to the NEC/Tokin capacitors on the motherboard degrading over time and no longer being able to provide enough power to the CPU or GPU. The degradation of these capacitors are greatly sped up when they operate in hot conditions. The NEC/Tokin capacitors were completely replaced by Sony in later slim and super slim models of the PlayStation 3 with much more reliable tantalum capacitors. The YLoD can usually be fixed in older PlayStation 3's that utilize NEC/Tokin capacitors by replacing them with tantalum capacitors. A temporary fix for the YLoD is simply heating up the NEC/Tokin capacitors, which helps restore their original capacitive properties.

You'd need to eventually replace the capacitors at some point before they stop working, which does involve a fair bit of soldering work.
But that said, YLOD is still just a generic error as mentioned above, so if it does pop up and persist after replacing the capacitors, you might be SOL depending on what the failure point is exactly. (Blu-ray Drive, Motherboard failure, Thermal issues, etc.)
 

Atom

Member
Jul 25, 2021
11,990
Firmware updates do not remove BC. However, old fully BC PS3 models require the following (actually probably true of most PS3 models, but especially earlier variants):

1. Delidding of CELL and RSX and reapplication of thermal paste. My understanding is that Sony used a mediocre thermal paste which typically would quickly dry out and fail to conduct heat away from the chips, or come out of contact with the integrated heat spreaders attached to the chips. Both IHS are attached with an extremely adhesive silicone kind of glue, and you will need to very carefully cut this away to remove the IHS, without damaging CPU traces, or snapping off other components. Look up a a repair video.

2. Once this is done, these models typically run very hot as Sony seemed to prioritize quietness over thermals. To fix this an ensure longer term functionality of the unit you will most likely need to install some type of custom firmware and fan curve modifier, to keep the unit at lower temperatures. If your unit has thermal paste in good nick (i.e. if it is comparatively not used), this alone might be sufficient to get decent working life out of it. PS3 CFW comes with its whole set of issues, and will effectively make your unit an offline machine only as Sony is extremely aggressive about banning accounts that go online with CFW PS3 devices. There are some ways around this, none seem entirely foolproof and there's not a whole lot of insight into the telemetry.

2a. Custom firmware is also essential because Sony decided the sensible thing to do was to marry a bunch of components, most notably the Blu Ray drive to the unit's motherboard, making swaps impossible. Additionally, if a drive is not connected to your device on OFW it might not boot. CFW gets around this by removing the BD flag, and letting you mix and match blu ray drives (with a lot of additional conditions, but still). Essential for long term repairability and diagnosis of the system.

2b. Custom firmware also unlocks region for all content, and will let you use Sony's software emulator (ps2_netemu) for PS2 classics, for all your library. You will need to dump discs to .iso. Compatibility is extremely decent, despite lacking the hardware. I think last I checked something like 80% of PS2 titles either played fine, with minor issues, or had PS2 classics officially --- this way you might be able to use any old more modern PS3 with less issues likely to crop up to play your games. Check a compatibility list.

3. NEC/Tokin Capacitors. These will probably fail at some point. They were notoriously bad caps that were used because of a quite high capacitance in a slim form factor. The replacement isn't impossible by any means, but requires removing the old caps from the PCB which can be an involved process, requiring removal of the old ones and soldering. These were replaced in slim and super slim models. Slims after around 2010/2011ish I think, but check a list of model and rev numbers.

4. Fan replacement and power supply replacement -- there are larger fans I believe you can swap in to help thermals, as well as the launch FATs can be upgraded to a more power efficient and less hot power supply.

Personal recommendation: Retroarch and a PS2 core. Owning and continuing to operate an old PS3 requires a lot of additional baggage you need to be willing to deal with, and emulation will let your games look very good.