Creepy Woody

Member
Nov 11, 2017
2,638
Australia
"Only 2.2m".

I don't blame the IP for this. PS5's were hard to get at the time and it's slipped from the limelight now.

Ratchet's in the past have all gone "platinum" for $20 or whatever it is in your country and even cheaper on special, giving it legs. Rift hasn't had that opportunity either.

At least there will *be* another Ratchet.... in half a decade. Christ I'll be nearly 40.
 

LumberPanda

Member
Feb 3, 2019
6,636
For everyone who complained about the long cross-gen period, hopefully now you know why most AAA games were cross-gen for a few years.

AAA sales are predominantly front-loaded, and you're limited to a percentage of the installbase at launch time.
 

Son of Sparda

"This guy are sick" says The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,823
Being a PS5 only game coming out seven months after launch, while there were severe shortages, it did not do that poorly. By July 2021, the system had only sold ten million units
It's been on market for over 2 years now and there are plenty more PS5s out there, yet further interest isn't there.

Same with Returnal and Demon's Souls remake. Some games just aren't as attractive at full price and this gen Sony rarely does decent discounts for their PS5 games, and they've given up on permanent price cuts for their games on PSN (the only exception is HFW which got a complete edition that is now sold at full price), so something like Ratchet or Returnal is still too pricey for most people (PS Extra inclusion aside ofc).
 

Mocha Joe

Member
Jun 2, 2021
9,830
Kinda the flaw with launching games exclusively early in a new consoles life cycle.

Chicken and egg scenario. Need games to sell new hardware, but they won't sell as well early on compared to later
 

Alek

Games User Researcher
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
8,532
Given Insomniac's open world focus and the clear evidence that the old formula for Ratchet and Clank isn't pulling in enough appeal, I would bet the next game is drastically different. Perhaps open world, but perhaps something else entirely. I have thought for a long time that I would love a roguelike Ratchet and Clank game, with all the weapons and whatnot feeding into different experiences for each run. That's obviously not a prediction, but I think they could take a very different approach with the next title.
 

LumberPanda

Member
Feb 3, 2019
6,636
It's been on market for over 2 years now and there are plenty more PS5s out there, yet further interest isn't there.

Same with Returnal and Demon's Souls remake. Some games just aren't as attractive at full price and this gen Sony rarely does decent discounts for their PS5 games, and they've given up on permanent price cuts for their games on PSN (the only exception is HFW which got a complete edition that is now sold at full price), so something like Ratchet or Returnal is still too pricey for most people (PS Extra inclusion aside ofc).
Very few singleplayer AAA IPs are evergreen once you take Nintendo out of the pool. Deep discounts don't really change that.
 

bitcloudrzr

Member
May 31, 2018
14,572
It's been on market for over 2 years now and there are plenty more PS5s out there, yet further interest isn't there.

Same with Returnal and Demon's Souls remake. Some games just aren't as attractive at full price and this gen Sony rarely does decent discounts for their PS5 games, and they've given up on permanent price cuts for their games on PSN (the only exception is HFW which got a complete edition that is now sold at full price), so something like Ratchet or Returnal is still too pricey for most people (PS Extra inclusion aside ofc).
Many of the 2021 exclusive games faced the same issue, COVID shortages really put a dent in those sales compared to the cross gen games. Even with system sales the way they are currently, the amount of games in 22-23 were going to bury interest in those early releases. Time on market is not going to matter as it is not a game with long staying power either. What they need to do is release Rift Apart Valhalla lol.
 

bwahhhhh

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,193
mannnn I loved this game, loved the voice acting of all the NPCs, the atmosphere was amazing on some planets, etc

it was also the first game in a long time where I kept stopping to marvel at the graphics and use photo mode, which I almost never do. think the last time I kept stopping like that to this extent was back in the DC/PS2/GCN/XBOX gen

I just love this series and would be fine with iterations like this every few years, like Mega Man games, but I guess not enough people are like that

I guess this only works nowadays with games like Yakuza where they reuse a ton of assets or areas in between games and the game areas themselves are actually really small.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
4,720
I didnt know they were making another...which goddamn I was so scared the series was dead after reading the title alone. That was some instant relief after clicking on the thread.

Rift Apart was so fucking good.
 

electroaffe

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,207
Berlin
I did my part and bought it for 80€ day one and it was fun but I don't think such a game can work nowadays. The gameplay is very basic compared to Nintendo titles and the story is super tame and uninspired compared to Pixar and DreamWorks movies. In the end the last two Ratchet games were incredibly forgettable.
 

bitcloudrzr

Member
May 31, 2018
14,572
I didnt know they were making another...which goddamn I was so scared the series was dead after reading the title alone. That was some instant relief after clicking on the thread.

Rift Apart was so fucking good.

I did my part and bought it for 80€ day one and it was fun but I don't think such a game can work nowadays. The gameplay is very basic compared to Nintendo titles and the story of super tame and uninspired compared to Pixar and DreamWorks movies. In the end the last two Ratchet games were incredibly forgettable.
I really hope they expand on the game, a little more open world-ish, space flight, more worlds and regions, similar to ACIT.
 

abellwillring

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,968
Austin, TX
I love the R&C series so I eventually upgraded my PS+ to Extra when this came available to play it. I don't buy as many games these days and certainly not at full price.. this isn't a game I would have ever considered buying personally. A friend of mine was very bored by it though -- I can see why if you're not a fan of the series already that it would feel a little long in the tooth since the core gameplay is pretty dated. I don't think the rifts changed that much.
 
Nov 4, 2017
7,506
Rift Apart is an absolutely gorgeous game, and I've enjoyed what I have played of it. I also loved the PS4 Ratchet & Clank as a newcomer to the series.

Buuuuut 125 dollaridoos (about 85 burger bucks) is just too pricey for a game I can beat in about 10 hours. By the time it started going on sale, it felt worth just waiting for PS+ or a deeper cut.
 

Zafir

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,266
I feel like the price point probably didn't help at all. I did buy it, but only because I found somewhere to pre-order it cheaper. I couldn't justify £65-£70 most retailers wanted for it really. I feel like £70 as a price point is just a rough ask for certain games that aren't sure fire hits.

Considering Nintendo puts out a lot of platformers that sell well, I don't really think it's the genres that's a problem. Nintendo's prices are a lot more realistic though, coming in at around £40-£45 at most retailers here.

I'm sure the fact it came out while the PS5 was in short supple probably didn't help too. Yes, sure the console has been available more recently, and its had time to catch up. But the launch period is where all the excitement, information and advertisements are all happening, so if you can't reach critical mass at that point for whatever reason, it will make it a lot harder to catch up later.
 

Yerffej

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,180
Given Insomniac's open world focus and the clear evidence that the old formula for Ratchet and Clank isn't pulling in enough appeal, I would bet the next game is drastically different. Perhaps open world, but perhaps something else entirely. I have thought for a long time that I would love a roguelike Ratchet and Clank game, with all the weapons and whatnot feeding into different experiences for each run. That's obviously not a prediction, but I think they could take a very different approach with the next title.
I'd LOVE a mode like that.
 

KamenRiderEra

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,175
It was one of two physical releases I've bought for my PS5 the other one being Demon's Souls. I still consider these two to be the best PS5 showcases to date.



Wut? Each weapon has its unique feel to it also the hit detection is great. Unless you have an accessibility concern I do wonder what you consider as "great shooting".
Personally I don't find satisfying hit things and the different feels of the trigger get old fast. Also the platform is so simple. That's my biggest gripe, the game is not a good platformer neither a great shooter, IMHO.
 

Yerffej

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,180
Open world would be to try and garner more mainstream appeal as is the custom for our time.
I'd still be all about it, even though I don't prefer it. They are only getting to continue this series because of Spider-Man, I'd guess. So, keeping it afloat by changing it up makes sense.
 

bitcloudrzr

Member
May 31, 2018
14,572
I'd still be all about it, even though I don't prefer it. They are only getting to continue this series because of Spider-Man, I'd guess. So, keeping it afloat by changing it up makes sense.
Who knows, maybe it will have its BOTW moment by doing that lol. It is the only series I am interested from them so I hope it can grow.
 

vixolus

Prophet of Truth
Member
Sep 22, 2020
56,861
If Ratchet flopped I have to imagine Returnal did even harder. Maybe it fared better on PC though (came after the leaked slides I think however)
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,392
According to Era, they should continue to make more of these games which don't sell enough in todays world. Who cares if they lose money, that doesn't matter at all!

Yeah, they should.

Why would I give a shit about Sony's bottom line, that's not my problem.

Maybe don't give these types of games such a high-budget, maybe don't charge $70 for a game like this, maybe realize a game like this might have the legs to profitable long-term instead of be an instant cash cow.

But the main lesson Sony and idiots on the internet will take from this is "nobody wants platformers" or some stupid shit.
 

JigglesBunny

Prophet of Truth
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
31,514
Chicago
One of the best games on the hardware and top three best entries in the series. Everybody who didn't bite on it, you're dead to me.
 

Saiyaman

Member
Dec 19, 2017
1,914
Ratchet is one my favorite series, man. I've platinumed all the games, and I almost never bother with trophies. It hurts to see people don't rock with it like that. 😭

Anyone with a PS5/PC that hasn't played it should treat themselves to it for Christmas.
 

deathsaber

Member
Nov 2, 2017
3,115
IMO a victim of $69.99 games. Not all things should carry that price point. Just the big 30+ hour AAA extravaganzas. (open world/service/super high budget stuff). And yes, I know this game is as AAA as it comes in terms of graphics/quality, but reality is I think the market conception for a 10-12 hour or so single player platformer is that this should be somewhat budget priced- $50 or so. Should have had the Miles Morales, or the Uncharted Lost Legacy pricing model.
 

bitcloudrzr

Member
May 31, 2018
14,572
Yeah, they should.

Why would I give a shit about Sony's bottom line, that's not my problem.

Maybe don't give these types of games such a high-budget, maybe don't charge $70 for a game like this, maybe realize a game like this might have the legs to profitable long-term instead of be an instant cash cow.

But the main lesson Sony and idiots on the internet will take from this is "nobody wants platformers" or some stupid shit.
If that were the case, they would not be making another one of these. This game was more a victim of circumstance than just price on release, and it might have done worse had it not been the visual showcase it was. You do not have to give a shit about Sony's bottom line, but discussing things in a business context does not hurt.
 

Mass Effect

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 31, 2017
17,003
According to Era, they should continue to make more of these games which don't sell enough in todays world. Who cares if they lose money, that doesn't matter at all!

Use titles like R&C (and similar-scoped games) to bolster PS+ lineup instead of killing the franchise. Spiderman doesn't need to launch on the service, but Ratchet can.

with how people have talked about the series losing its bite im not really surprised. i get the feeling that alot of people are bored of the series

This is the big problem. Sadly Rift Apart is a standard-fare Ratchet game you've played 5 times before. Yes the portal system was cool, but they could have done more with it.

They need to do something crazy for the next game. Something more ambitious like A Crack in Time.
 
Jul 2, 2021
16,759
Given Insomniac's open world focus and the clear evidence that the old formula for Ratchet and Clank isn't pulling in enough appeal, I would bet the next game is drastically different. Perhaps open world, but perhaps something else entirely. I have thought for a long time that I would love a roguelike Ratchet and Clank game, with all the weapons and whatnot feeding into different experiences for each run.
Dear lord...
 

Kaitos

Tens across the board!
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
14,833
As much as I wish they chased power, a part of me does sort of get the Nintendo approach here of limited budgets and power in order to lower costs, where 2.2m can earn you a nice return. Rift Apart is fantastic and beautiful and so much fun and did I mention beautiful. It's really frustrating that it didn't do better.
 
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GazRB

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,814
I bet they are satisfied with its performance. It was early on a new platform, driving people to get a PS5 and showing off what the system can do.
 

vixolus

Prophet of Truth
Member
Sep 22, 2020
56,861
I don't think "flopped" is an accurate depiction.
Why not? -10% ROI is a flop. It isn't a bomb like Immortals of Aveum perhaps. Plus I'm sure it got some non-monetary value like awards/praise for its technical aspect. And in a super PS5 constrained situation it's not a bad performance. But I was just curious as Returnal came out in a similar window and seems like that would be even less than RC.
 

NeoBob688

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,669
I am actually impressed that they were able to make this for $80 million, the game seems very premium to me, just a really slick production all around. I got it on PS5, I will buy again for PC on Steam sale in 2 days.
 
Oct 30, 2017
9,353
FUCK….. the game deserves much more, the most true next gen game still.

R&C is one of my favourite franchises, now with this is almost guaranteed that insomniac will work exclusively on marvel games only :-(
 

KalBalboa

Member
Oct 30, 2017
8,059
Massachusetts
Why not? -10% ROI is a flop. It isn't a bomb like Immortals of Aveum perhaps

I just can't imagine people realistically expecting Ratchet to have sold 6 million or something like a God of War or CoD or whatever. You have to take into account a few critical details with R&CRA.

#1: The PS5 install base at the time. Making a PS5-only game with a AAA vibe was always going to fall into a martyrdom category.

#2: It's a first-party title designed to ooh and ahh consumers about the new hardware. This isn't uncommon; a lot of early-gen titles are made with tech-debt in mind as an investment to pay off with sequels or technical follow ups. Ratchet likely was used as a test bed for the PS5 ecosystem, which Insomniac could use to benefit the development of their next PS5 games. Ratchet was used as a proud marketing tool for Playstation (and why wouldn't it have been?) for over a year.

For a lot of consumers, a differentiating factor for the PS5 was that it "had games" at a critical time in the hardware generation. Ratchet was absolutely one of those games, if it makes any sense.

#3: Ratchet likely moved PS+ subs and evidently made some money on the PC port, too.
 

NotLiquid

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
35,023
Personally, A Crack In Time was the last game in the series I generally really liked since even though it still has a whole lot of modern Ratchet flaws, it was at least a nice conclusion to an ongoing story and had some interesting gimmicks of its own.

Outside of that, Ratchet has just kind of become a junk food type series. I'm glad it's still running because it offers some nice presentational diversity among Sony's current game slate targeting their primary audience, but ever since the franchise left the PS2 days it's been progressively turning into a whole lot of empty calories; the level design has gotten less ambitious, the action has emphasized glitz over wit, and the writing quality has also deteriorated significantly by sanding down the edges to appeal to more wholesome-minded audiences, even though it consequently ended up making the eponymous pair go from being one of the most interesting buddy comedy duos in games to one of the most mundane. The modern games don't do platforming any more interesting or engaging than its contemporaries, nor does its combat/gunplay really measure up with its peers either. Rift Apart's SSD utilizing gameplay features only really amounted to fairly basic game play features that could be masked as setpiece-worthy elements. The phenomenal production values, comedy gimmick weaponry, and beautiful CG cartoon-like presentation is the one thing holding the series up at this point, and it doesn't exactly serve to elevate the most interesting core. The games are alright, and then they kind of exit the mind after you're done with them.

These aren't horrible numbers, nor are they even necessarily bad numbers when looked at in a vacuum, but I'm not surprised there's a lack of growth here or that it even may be underperforming. The franchise has been pretty unremarkable for some time now and Ratchet himself doesn't really have that household status anymore to carry its shortcomings. It probably doesn't help either that the franchise's value might've been shortchanged (similar to Crash) by the PS4 remake being budget priced. If they want the franchise to be back at the top, the next one feels like it has to do some uprooting of conventions in order to justify how much money is going into them.
 
Last edited:
Nov 16, 2017
219
Birmingham, AL
Disappointing. It was a fantastic game that I beat and my daughter (8 years old at the time) beat it twice. Once with the no damage mode and then she beat it again on easy difficulty without god mode.
 

CarterTax

Member
Oct 25, 2017
709
I'm thinking being still $70 years after release is killing the back end for games like R&C (I know it's currently on sale).

Not singling you out but this game has been on sale a bunch of times, on sale as low as $30 USD before being placed on PS Plus Extra/Premium. Price did not hold this game back. It has seen multiple sales down to $50/$40/$30 and the people that had an issue with the game launching at $70 haven't budged. Perfectly fine, but if the game has been on sale no less than a dozen times for $50 and below, then it would appear that even if this launched at some budget price or lower than $70 that it may not have moved the needle much if any at all (in terms of overall revenue). I just think this is an argument more based in the fact that people are not fans of $70 games (which is fine), than whether a lower price would have gotten people to press purchase -- The Returnal effect.
 

Complicated

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,403
That is a ridiculous budget for a Ratchet and Clank game. Let developers make mid or low-budget games when it makes sense.
 

southwest

Member
Sep 15, 2022
1,696
I just can't imagine people realistically expecting Ratchet to have sold 6 million or something like a God of War or CoD or whatever. You have to take into account a few critical details with R&CRA.

#1: The PS5 install base at the time. Making a PS5-only game with a AAA vibe was always going to fall into a martyrdom category.

#2: It's a first-party title designed to ooh and ahh consumers about the new hardware. This isn't uncommon; a lot of early-gen titles are made with tech-debt in mind as an investment to pay off with sequels or technical follow ups. Ratchet likely was used as a test bed for the PS5 ecosystem, which Insomniac could use to benefit the development of their next PS5 games. Ratchet was used as a proud marketing tool for Playstation (and why wouldn't it have been?) for over a year.

For a lot of consumers, a differentiating factor for the PS5 was that it "had games" at a critical time in the hardware generation. Ratchet was absolutely one of those games, if it makes any sense.

#3: Ratchet likely moved PS+ subs and evidently made some money on the PC port, too.
Not making money back is flopping. It flopped. I love the game, but it's clear as day it wasn't a success.
 

Det

Member
Jul 30, 2020
13,299
Why not? -10% ROI is a flop. It isn't a bomb like Immortals of Aveum perhaps. Plus I'm sure it got some non-monetary value like awards/praise for its technical aspect. And in a super PS5 constrained situation it's not a bad performance. But I was just curious as Returnal came out in a similar window and seems like that would be even less than RC.

This is a weird situation we're in for platform holders in terms of ROI calculation. Rift Apart has negative ROI from a unit sales perspective but it is also included on PS+, which is difficult to quantify monetization per title. Similar to GP + software sales albeit PS+ is more of a half-step to that model, but the ecosystem value is similar and is the appropriate context, just weighted differently to Xbox.
 

AnimeJesus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,264
Well it did come out early in the PS5 cycle when consoles were still hard to get. It was also a mediocre game that was over pretty quickly.