"Reach out to/educate bigots" ~ to those who say this, you ever actually tried it?

[NoName999]

I noticed that among the.... whiter parts of Era is a call to educate people on why bigotry is wrong and that if we simply listen, they'll stopped being bigots. With the colored folk thinking that's forever bullshit.

But hey, what if it actually does work and you had a story to tell? So please tell/share/recall.

Did anyone who preach this actually try this themselves? Bonus points, if the bigot in question wasn't a friend or a family member.

And I mean honest to god conversion. Not Daryl Davising it, where the bigot stopped wearing his bigotry on a sleeve, but still held disgusting views.

Also was it sincere on your end and not some form of white savior complex or out of some point to tell off minorities that they should do it themselves as well?

Now granted, I'm gonna be skeptical as shit and assume you're probably lying.

"But NoName, you great whore of Babylon," you say. "If you think I'm lying, what's the point of sharing?"

Hey if you're telling the truth, you're telling the truth and that's all that matter. Just don't get pissy if someone online doesn't believe.

Now... where the receipts, please?

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

I don't think I ever reached "bigot" status but I did a complete 180 on my political and social views because of listening to POC/LGBT folks on GAF.

While I think it's worth attempting to change people's hearts, the onus is not on us to fix the unfixable.

 

[jph139]

You can't change a bigot.

But you can change a idiot who holds bigoted opinions. Racism from malice and racism from ignorance are two very different things, even if the end result is similar.

Solid, sensible discussion has definitely convinced people I know (friends and relatives) why their behavior is bad. They never say "I've seen the light, thank you, I was wrong!" but there's a behavioral shift, which is good enough for me.

Maybe those guys are just hiding it better now, but I don't think it was ever a deep enough part of them that they'd bother.

 

[MasterYoshi]

I've been trying this since the election in 2016. I haven't successfully changed one person's opinion. Not a single person.

 

[Dook's Revenge]

Haven't said it, but have done it.

 

[Parthenios]

I have had success with this. Maybe a success rate of... like one in five people?

I've gotten better at it because I've stopped telling racists that they are wrong and more letting them draw that conclusion themselves through conversation. It's like Inception, if they figure out racism is bad on their own they are way more receptive to it than when I just called racists racist (much of my 20s lol).

 

[Masquerader]

I've tried over a LONG period of time with my parents to get them to stop their homophobia, seeing as it'd be practical, being bisexual and all that. ;p They're pretty good people, but also devout Catholics, and these two things have a tendency to clash. My mother was always the nicer of the two and the more liberal of the two, and she's basically gotten over it in full.

As for my dad, well, there has been legit progress. But he started off WAY worse than my ma. For example, I had to get him to stop using the N-word for starters (he never used it in a racist connotation, but I still had to explain to him how it was wrong and demeaning). Eventually, I basically pointed out that his mother would have been ashamed of some of his views and words, and he's currently trying his best, which makes me very happy.

EDIT: Just to point out... I consider reaching out to try and educate bigots a good thing, but I don't think it's wrong to not want to, as there are a million valid reasons why not to.

 

[DryCreek]

.

 

[DeusOcha]

Back on the other forum I've held an apathetic viewpoint regarding PoC, I now am now fully aware of my flawed viewpoint back then and seek to constantly improve and keep it in check to this day.

 

[VenomousCoffee]

I think that a lot of white liberals believe that bigots don't really believe their bigotry and secretly want to be talked out of it (and so are secretly just like white liberals, deep down). Bigots really believe that being a bigot is the morally right thing to do, just like white liberals think not being a bigot is right. People want the police to violate the rights of minorities, for ICE to "crack down" on immigrants, and so on because they genuinely believe those policies are the correct ones for the world/country at large. A few conversations, facts, or message board posts won't change that.

 

[Nepenthe]

I've been trying this since the election in 2016. I haven't successfully changed one person's opinion. Not a single person.

Click to shrink...

Well, maybe you're just not being nice enough. Have you tried leading in with cookies?

 

[HellforLeather]

Christian Picciolini, an ex-neo nazi claims to do this all the time. Not sure how successful he is as I believe he doesn't use anybodies personal information when discussing it. Personally, I can say Ive seen it happen several times, it's just usually a fairly lengthy process and most of the time you have to lead them into having the realization themselves.

You will never convert anybody by telling them they are bigoted pieces of shit.

 

[i_am_ben]

Depends what you mean by educate.

A lot of people have changed their minds on gay rights etc.

 

[RDreamer]

I mean, I used to be a bigot. Enough arguing against my stupid fucking points got me to change.

I try to do the same to others. Of course a lot won't change, and they definitely aren't changing mid conversation. It's a long process that will lose on most people.

 

[Meows]

I don't think I've ever had someone change their mind on racial bigotry (outside of some family that I called tf out) but I believe I have had some good experiences explaining to some homophobic baby boomers that went to my university classes why we aren't evil and out to destroy the world like their leaders want them to think. They at least wanted to sit with me and try to understand me after they got to know me. I talked to a couple for a couple of hours. Who knows if they actually took anything from it or not but it seemed like they did.

 

[HardTimesFamilyPride]

I've done it a few times. It's on white people to do that because it requires someone who can talk to that person with bigoted views from their own cultural perspective to break down the suppositions around those beliefs. As such, discussion about it on this site is usually laughable.

I've been trying this since the election in 2016. I haven't successfully changed one person's opinion. Not a single person.

Click to shrink...

The election's made shit worse because it's much easier for someone to pull the presumptuous defective culture war bullshit as soon as you show any disagreement.

 

[rjinaz]

I feel like a person that is truly just racially ignorant would be able to be educated to a point as long as they are an open-minded individual willing to think in new ways. Those that are hateful in their racism though, yeah good luck with that. SO my Sister that might say something like "yeah but racism is bad because they kind of make it that way": reachable. My Father who I have seen wear Black face and uses words like PC and snowflakes: not reachable.

I feel like I have made at least some progress with my Sister, we talk politics sometimes on the weekend when we drink by the pool. I've challenged some of her more racially ignorant stances and I feel it's working.

Edit: outside of family members? No. But I don't associate with people I hear say racist things, don't want them in my life.

 

[Kurdel]

I used to be super anti-theist back a few years back, and talking with muslims on Neogaf made me realize how pointless it was.

Now I think everyone deserves peace wherever they can find it, even through religion. I am still an atheist and that will never change.

 

[EdibleKnife]

The frustrating part of that mentality is the idea that its some how brand new information particularly for minorities. I've had to defend myself and make arguments for my humanity since the first moments of my life when I was abused for being black. Educating bigots is a part of my personal survival. The implication that somehow bigots are bereft of convincing arguments or empathetic treatment is bullshit when so many minorities only survive by sucking up frustrations sometimes and repeating lessons they've had to teach for years. If I write off a bigot it's not because of stubbornness. It's because I have enough experience to know when someone is jerking me around or willfully staying ignorant rather than actually being interested and receptive to change.

 

[Mahonay]

On the internet? Fucking no one.

I've gotten through to a few people in real life, but I have zero idea if it stuck with them or they simply shrugged it off. The most I can say is that I've at least made a couple people feel some level of shame for being blatantly racist.

I tend not to interact at all with extreme bigots. I treat them more like lepers. I don't even want them near me.

 

[4859]

I don't waste my time on that shit.

 

[Imperfected]

Yeah.

I had an NCO in the Army who would say some jaw-droppingly venomous shit about our black First Sergeant. I mean, bitching about the 1SG is par for the course, but he would always take things about seven steps too far. He was otherwise a thoroughly decent guy who legitimately cared about his subordinates and tried to fight to get people to uphold the rules of engagement (ie, actually respecting the lives and safety of Iraqis). He was also a really dark-skinned Puerto Rican, though as I learned during that deployment there's really no sense of affinity, there. He even went to bat pretty hard for Obama when time came around to cast absentee votes.

He seemed like he "got" that it was wrong and certain words/topics were off-limits no matter how upset we were, but he just kept falling back into that whenever the vitriol came out. Never did really stop.

 

[Deleted member 19066]

I had a young coworker who was on the precipice. I don't think I changechanged his mind much, but he was willing to engage me with respect and curiosity about my opinions. I think I gave him a good left-leaning role model. Kid didn't even know they had literal neo Nazis at charlottesville.

I did get him to take the concept of white privilege seriously, though.

I have had success with this. Maybe a success rate of... like one in five people?

I've gotten better at it because I've stopped telling racists that they are wrong and more letting them draw that conclusion themselves through conversation. It's like Inception, if they figure out racism is bad on their own they are way more receptive to it than when I just called racists racist (much of my 20s lol).

Click to shrink...

One in five seems like a good track record, honestly. People are stubborn.

 

[HylianSeven]

To my knowledge, it has not worked, however my "listening" to them is straight up pointing out that they are being a bigoted asshole. However I think it is still worth trying, to at least try to convey to others that this shit is not acceptable. I have been unfriended over calling someone out plenty of times.

An example of this I can think of:

This was right after Kaitlyn Jenner revealed get transition and was given that sports courage award. This girl I went to high school with shared a "meme" that was a picture of a soldier that was bloody, and missing a leg that looked to be freshly amputated, and two fellow soldiers carrying him. The text said "Off to congratulate Kaitlyn Jenner on her courage award!" I called her out on it, and of course she kept referring to Kaitlyn as "Bruce" despite me correcting it, then realizing I had her cornered, she tried to hide behind the "Oh I just shared the image in humor" defense, so I said something like "Yeah, injured soldiers are hilarious, let me tell you." She unfriended me after that.

It doesn't (at least I don't know if it doing so) change these people, but I think it is more dangerous to leave them unchallenged and you should call their shit out.

 

[Phoenix RISING]

I have not gotten anyone to do a full-scale repentance, but I have gotten people to consider angles that they had not at first thought possible.

So instead of raging fist-shaking at the sky concerning those people, I've managed to reduce the angst to that person.

 

[Deleted member 11093]

I feel like some of the people who parrot this are closet bigots, like some sort of a cry for help message.

 

[Ortix]

I've been trying. Sometimes you can get one point across, but on the whole... It's quite depressing.

 

[Mesoian]

I have. They complained the entire time and ended the conversation by flipping me off and walking away.

Bigots don't wanna change their mind, which is why people saying we need to coddle them in order to get them to understand basic human empathy sounds hollow as shit.

Real talk, explaining to people why they shouldn't use the word "fag" is exhausting when, 10 seconds into the conversation, you know they aren't going to stop.

Sometimes bad people are just bad people.

 

[yogurt]

If you're limiting your sample group to far-right "bigots" whose ethos is "take that, liberals!" then no, I haven't changed many minds.

If you're also counting folks who are closer to the center or center-right, who have beliefs that the internet hivemind dislikes but are still basically reasonable, empathetic people, then yes, I've had an effect on a number of those people.

Everyone gets so caught up in the first group that they ignore the second group. Or they call the people in the second groups "BIGOTS" for having even one non-liberal viewpoint, thus pushing those folks into the first group over time.

It's sad, really.

 

[Bandage]

Reach out with your fist and educate them with a hard right.

 

[Nay]

Those people are too far gone in their delusions. Anything you try to say to change their minds is met with resistance or anecdotal evidence which they purport represents their twisted worldview. Even if you argue in good faith and with facts then they just change the narrative or reframe their argument to try and discredit yours. There is absolutely no point in trying to change their minds.

 

[Moosichu]

I've convinced individuals. I think it's an admirable thing to try and do, but it's also completely fair not to have patience for individuals who think of others as lesser just for being different.

The thing is, from a policy perspective, it doesn't really work - as it takes deep and in-length conversations with people you are close with, like family or friends.

The best way to eliminate bigotry and racism is through education, both in schools and in media. It's why having minorities represented on TV and in films is so important. It's also why history classes should teach the darker side of a country's history. Empathy is a really hard skill to learn, and I'm trying to improve mine every day. Most of the time, I try to calmly and tactfully interact with people who say bigoted things with the hope of changing their minds. But sometimes I will also simply not have enough patience and tell them to fuck off.

However, I am in a very privileged position, and have the luxury of not really being affected by this stuff, so I really don't feel like I could be in a position to tell others to "reach out to bigots" when I'm not the one personally facing said bigotry.

 

[Kthulhu]

As someone who lives in Texas, I kind of have to. It almost never works, even when being friendly.

Part of this is that many do not argue in good faith.

 

[sph3re]

Sure.

I had a very long conversation with one of my friends for nearly an hour and a half, discussing the validity of both transgenderism and depression, among other things. I didn't change his mind (he is very strongheaded) but it was a respectible conversation.

He's also poor at rationalizing his opinions (i.e., "I can't empathise, so I also cannot sympathise"), but he admitted he didn't have a good excuse for those rationalizations, which is admittedly better than just automatically assuming he's right. He enjoyed the discourse and never gave us hell for our viewpoints.

My father, a conservative Canadian, supports borderline, if not outright bigotted viewpoints. He thought Donald Trump's wall was/is a good idea, doesn't understand white privilege, has more or less stated that women who wear makeup are asking for sexual harrassment/assault... basically, low-key racist, sexist, transphobic, etc.

Discussing with him is harder, because he cannot articulate his thoughts very well, so everything comes off very aggressive sounding. In addition, a lot of the stuff he says is what you would expect of a bigoted viewpoint. "Where do you draw the line" in regards to transgender rights, "but in general, Xs tend to commit Y acts" in regards to race, etc.

I can get the gist of what he's saying and at times, he's not 100% off base, I guess. Due to his age and his direct relation to me, I don't think I'll change his mind anytime soon.

 

[yogurt]

I have had success with this. Maybe a success rate of... like one in five people?

I've gotten better at it because I've stopped telling racists that they are wrong and more letting them draw that conclusion themselves through conversation. It's like Inception, if they figure out racism is bad on their own they are way more receptive to it than when I just called racists racist (much of my 20s lol).

Click to shrink...

Yep. This x1000. Yelling at people that they're "RACIST" or whatever might be cathartic for some, but it doesn't change anyone's mind. Changing minds takes trust and patience.

 

[Karsticles]

I'm a teacher. I reach out and try to educate bigots for a living.

 

[Veelk]

Even if you could, I think that proselytizing racists should be a secondary objective to simply stopping them.

They need to be stopped and removed from influence first.

 

[Deleted member 14900]

I've known at least one associate who changed by exposure. I did mention it at one point but nothing came of it until it changed. Like, admitted to me later down the road saying "I got mad when one of my friends called you some bigot shit". And go on to mention they used to be cool with it themselves or just not care, and it made them change or work on it. So, that alone gives me some hope. From experience with extended family, I don't think I have the energy to try to change most people's minds because most of the time it hasn't worked. I can't be arsed to put a band aid on people's hurt feelings when all you pointed out is to not treat people like shit.

 

[Vautrin]

Sorry people don't immediately change their views for your own gratification. How is it you think that we don't hold the same values as our counterparts from the medieval ages?

 

[subpar spatula]

It's not that they want people to go out and talk to other people, no, but more of a social program similar to rehab.

 

[Mahonay]

Oh! I forgot the time I almost got stabbed at a bar for standing up to a racist.

It was a dive bar in Brooklyn that I frequented. I chatted up with a Puerto Rican dude who was super chill and we decided to team up to play a round of pool against two other random guys (white, bearded, tattooed, shaved head). During the game the one guy starts calling my partner slurs and making racist jokes. I stopped what I was doing and told him that's not fucking cool. We finished our game and that was that.

Later in the night as it's getting close to closing time, the white guy who was being racist to my partner, comes up next to me and threatens to stab me when we leave the bar. Basically telling me I didn't know he was and he was going to kill me.

Luckily he ended up leaving before me but I was legitimately scared for my life. More so than when I was once held up at gun point by two teenagers.

 

[gcubed]

Listen, you can't even change the peoples minds who spout this bullshit, let alone racists.

 

[MusclesAreGirly]

Does my own family count?

A couple years ago I called her racist or rather said "you're being racist" based on her rampant Islamophobia and dehumanization of Middle Eastern people.
She was so upset that she stormed off and walked the street alone for several hours. Dad was right there was was so furious he looked like he was about pummel me.
Said a bunch of things to me like "don't you love your mother? Don't you understand the things you've done to her?"

It's a painful memory, and needless to say, it didn't go well. In fact it made me feel like a mean jerk of a child.

Oh yeah, and my dad also said "do you not think before you speak. She was criticizing Islam not being racist. Not with you saying that someone could hear that and think she's actually racist. She didn't say anything about black people. That's not racism. And now thanks to you she's ran away and she's in danger. Someone could beat her up. Don't you love us? We've done everything for you. My mom and dad didn't do half the things we do for you."

Ugh.

 

[HardTimesFamilyPride]

Real talk, explaining to people why they shouldn't use the word "fag" is exhausting when, 10 seconds into the conversation, you know they aren't going to stop.

Click to shrink...

This is the kinda shit where I think people are too fucking soft nowadays and could take a page from my backwoods town's book. We got a lot of folks here who are related to LGBT+ people and if someone wouldn't respect a wish to not use that word you'd have some burly motherfucker knocking their teeth out real quick.

 

[rjinaz]

Yep. This x1000. Yelling at people that they're "RACIST" or whatever might be cathartic for some, but it doesn't change anyone's mind. Changing minds takes trust and patience.

Click to shrink...

I don't think that's necessarily true. It may ultimately be better than nothing because let's be honest, not everybody is going to have a trusted and patient friend to guide their hand through their racism. Guilt and shame may resonate more than never being called out at all because nobody is there. Not at first, at first it will cause them to go on the defensive, but, who knows, getting the thought in there may cause them to start thinking a bit down the line. Because people don't like the idea that they may be racist, even more so than actual racism occurring right in front of their own eyes.

If the argument is which is better? Well of course, education but there aren't many people willing to do that and usually the onus falls on minorities.

 

[Rangerx]

Yeah I have. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

 

[Tbm24]

Honestly, it beats not trying. I'm my experience it takes years to slowly change someone, genuinely. Especially if they are super set in their ways.

 

[D65]

Of course.

The answer to ignorance is education.

 

[Lord Error]

Psychology has proved that people can change their beliefs when faced with a strong enough argument, or a personal experience. As a personal anecdote, I've convinced some friends to be more tolerant than they were. I don't blame anyone who doesn't want to engage into doing this, but it's proven that it works.

 

[Lat]

I don't even bother. They do what they do, I do what I do.