I can already imagine a scene where the top part falls and breaks everyone's legs belowOh thank God.
I'm glad the correct side is prevailing.
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Reclining airline seats are disappearing from economy class (article)
- Thread starter RBH
- Start date
This. I hate it and refuse to inflict it on anyone else. Would be glad for the option to be gone.
And then you do 17 hours of flights in a day and it suddenly comes into perspective. Some of us aren't just doing 2 hour domestic flights.
this is why I always book first row, plenty of room to stretch out
Good, all reclining does is take leg space away from the person behind you. Responding with a recline doesn't get that leg space back. Also there needs to be a leg room minimum.
Removing recline will just give the airlines the green light to stuff more seats in
Great news.
Airplane seat reclining is a weird game theory space where there are payouts similar to a prisoner's dilemma but without reciprocity? Not sure if there's an existing term for this type of game theory problem, but if one person defects, taking a small benefit for themselves at the cost of the person behind them, the person behind them is highly motivated to do the same to recover some of the damage done, and so on in a line all the way back. So the game theory equilibrium state is that the front-most passenger reclines their seat (since small benefit and no cost to them), and then everyone else behind them does so as well, resulting in a small benefit to one person and a small cost to everyone else. This can be prevented by some decent person along the way taking one for the team and not reclining, but there's no guarantee someone else behind them won't defect anyway.
We can argue at great length about payment for tickets implying a right to recline, or the ownership of the few inches of space immediately behind a seat back, but ultimately, the simplest way to resolve the whole problem is for some central authority to remove the option to defect entirely. Which is what's happening here.
Airplane seat reclining is a weird game theory space where there are payouts similar to a prisoner's dilemma but without reciprocity? Not sure if there's an existing term for this type of game theory problem, but if one person defects, taking a small benefit for themselves at the cost of the person behind them, the person behind them is highly motivated to do the same to recover some of the damage done, and so on in a line all the way back. So the game theory equilibrium state is that the front-most passenger reclines their seat (since small benefit and no cost to them), and then everyone else behind them does so as well, resulting in a small benefit to one person and a small cost to everyone else. This can be prevented by some decent person along the way taking one for the team and not reclining, but there's no guarantee someone else behind them won't defect anyway.
We can argue at great length about payment for tickets implying a right to recline, or the ownership of the few inches of space immediately behind a seat back, but ultimately, the simplest way to resolve the whole problem is for some central authority to remove the option to defect entirely. Which is what's happening here.
I'm team anti-recline. I can lock my knees to the chair in front so they can try to recline but they can't. If they are already seated and reclined before I get to my seat I'll aim my air nozzle to the top of their head and accidentally on purpose keep jarring their seat until they give up on the recline.
Extra legroom, but someone's ass in your face for entire flight is quite the choice.
Good riddance imo. Im not even tall like that and i HATE when ppl recline their chair. Barely any room for my legs as is. Ideally they'd take out a few rows too that way theres more space between the chair in front and your knees
How often are you doing this? You're going halfway around the world! 11 hours is nothing. And for what its worth this article is about US domestic carriers.
Still don't get the complaining.
And for 1,500 euros for economy?
Sure, getting halfway around the world in less than a day is indeed very cool. But ultimately air travel is an uncomfortable and often dehumanizing experience. You stand in long lines to check bags. You stand in long lines to be closely examined by security. You maybe take a break to pay well over the normal price for a meal or coffee because you're a captive audience, then you huddle around the gate in uncomfortable chairs until you board. Now you're packed in like sardines, and possibly fighting someone for an armrest, and you know deep in your bones that the airline gives absolutely zero fucks about you as a human being. You are cattle.
Is the person in front of you reclining their seat a big deal, in the scheme of things? Nah, not really. But by the time you're in your seat and the plane has taken off, it's just adding insult to injury.
Good.
The only major downside to my trip last year were the dude and his wife in front of us on our return flight, which was like 6-7 hours. His wife reclined her seat in my face twice, barring me to do anything like watching a tablet or my Steam Deck. I was already uncomfortable on that seat and being distracted helped me disregard the discomfort. I politely asked her if she could avoid reclining her seat, twice because maybe she thought I wouldn't notice the second time lol, because I was relatively tall and it stopped me from doing anything.
When we arrived and were waiting for our stuff, the dude got to our face, screaming that I wasn't even that tall and that his wife couldn't sleep because she wasn't able to recline her seat and stormed off, screaming and swearing as everyone watched.
This could all been avoided without this fucking reclining feature lol.
The only major downside to my trip last year were the dude and his wife in front of us on our return flight, which was like 6-7 hours. His wife reclined her seat in my face twice, barring me to do anything like watching a tablet or my Steam Deck. I was already uncomfortable on that seat and being distracted helped me disregard the discomfort. I politely asked her if she could avoid reclining her seat, twice because maybe she thought I wouldn't notice the second time lol, because I was relatively tall and it stopped me from doing anything.
When we arrived and were waiting for our stuff, the dude got to our face, screaming that I wasn't even that tall and that his wife couldn't sleep because she wasn't able to recline her seat and stormed off, screaming and swearing as everyone watched.
This could all been avoided without this fucking reclining feature lol.
5 to 6 hours of someone's chair back slammed into my knees is more than mild discomfort.
And 200 to 300? I'm flying from Detrot to Minneapolis next week and the round trip, cheapest I could find ticket is $850. For a two hour flight!
Flying Detroit to Vegas next month and that flight is almost the same price.
I haven't had a $200 flight in years.
Oh thank God.
I'm glad the correct side is prevailing.
Also:
View: https://www.tiktok.com/@travel/video/7290544145104407840
They've always had that green light as long as there's no regulations on minimum leg room. There should be a minimum seat size and leg room.
I'm seeing a regional airline for 78 dollars round trip and frontier for 178.
Its a minor discomfort for 2 hours. Less than most movies to get you 800 miles.
I don't understand the outsized place flight comfort takes in the outrage industry for something that takes up .002% of a year
I honestly share none of these feelings when I fly. Its very smooth, sure the lines are long and security is a bit of a dick sometimes but "dehumanized?" I can understand with kids possibly. But pack light and knowledgeable about security restrictions, get their early and its fine if its not Tgiving or Christmas.
It's because many of us are old enough to have experienced what it was like in The Before Times. We know that it doesn't have to be this way.
Also the fights over people on the top resting their feet on the head rest of the person below would be as troublesome as reclining.
I think you got fleeced somehow. I have flown MSP to Detroit for under 200 and even see under 200 dollar flights for next week.
This sent a wave of visceral anger through me lol.
With gas prices its around $40-50 dollars per 300-400 miles by car. So roughly the same on fuel without the costs of hotels and other incidentals. So yeah pretty cheap.
Holy fuck
Cheap to me is like 10-50 euros, and that would still be expensive for most people
on one side, I get why they'd get rid of them, the article points out a good point, because even I've seen shit where people are making messes with the recline option.
On the other side, I'm not one of those people...and the people who ruin it for the rest of us are just making it worse for us...
pay the same, get less.
On the other side, I'm not one of those people...and the people who ruin it for the rest of us are just making it worse for us...
pay the same, get less.
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Huh. Well I guess that explains the total disconnect. I'm glad you don't find it miserable, but I'm pretty sure most people do. Maybe just something to keep in mind in topics like this where people might have reactions that feel strange or inexplicable to you.
Wouldn't the same also be true of people confused why many don't care? Complainers are loud. Most people I know don't complain about flights and when asked respond : "it was fine"
JAL is good when you hit premium economy and up as the chairs are in a shell so even if the person reclines you don't notice it.
I can imagine the person below/behind me being able to taste the air after dinner.
I blame my company's travel agent then.
Meh, I'm not paying it :-p
Delta always charges a premium on their hub to hub flights. Delta also charges more for flights out of MSP than their other hubs.
I don't think most people view flying as negatively as you do even if they wouldn't disagree with your points. At this point flying is so mundane that all those things are mostly just tiresome, not miserable.
Hey maybe they booked you in business class hence the costs. Lol
I live there and fly regularly, including to one of their other hubs (Atlanta), so I'm acutely aware of this. If you value your money, avoid Delta is pretty much the MSP rule.
Same here, I fly Sun Country more and more out of MSP as Delta prices in MSP are so high nowadays and Delta's Basic Economy is not worth it no matter how much "cheaper" it is than Main Cabin.
Instead of a red eye you can save some more money and take a pink eye instead.
My 14 hour flight home from Japan last year was hell cause the person in front was reclined. I welcome this personally.
When I flew there in Feb this year I went Premium Economy and even that was made shitty by the person Infront fully reclining. I think next time I go I'm gonna stretch to business, even if just for one leg of the journey.
When I flew there in Feb this year I went Premium Economy and even that was made shitty by the person Infront fully reclining. I think next time I go I'm gonna stretch to business, even if just for one leg of the journey.
Sure, totally possible I'm extrapolating too far based on my own experience and how many people look stressed and tired while traveling. I was curious so went to see if anybody polls for just general dislike of the flying experience, but it mostly seems to just be polls of whether people are scared of flying, whether they think various security measures are appropriate, etc.