The last thing you want to do if you want someone to win is to take the tact and tone of Hillary Clinton, lecturing and browbeating people as if they aren't acutely aware of their decisions and the potential consequences.
Reminder of what's at stake in the U.S.: Biden appoints 200th judge to the courts and could appoint 1-2 SCOTUS judges if reelected
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Just hoping we don't have a repeat of 2016….that shit stain really got to appoint 3 Supreme Court judges…
It doesn't get as much press as it should (especially with SCOTUS overshadowing everything) but this is one of those lesser-watched things that really is critical to keep at the forefront of people's minds. The federal court system was infested with Trump lackies as a result of his last term and another term would tilt our entire Judicial system far-right for a generation.
That's just my intersection of categories - cis women will face losing birth control and abortion rights, any movement by the executive to weed out white nationalism in the military and police will end, gerrymandering along racial lines will accelerate, any hope of combating climate change will be kneecapped (and billions will suffer from that alone), Ukraine will face genocide, Israel won't even have the lightest of guardrails to advance on the West Bank and Gaza, and our allies in NATO will be abandoned. Next 5 months are going to be the height of anxiety.
Yes. It's questionable if I will be able to even exist in the USA if Trump wins - the GOP has made open their desire to ban *all* Trans healthcare and have been taking steps in the states they control to strip away Trans healthcare/rights. It's literally illegal for me to use a public restroom in Florida and the bans they have already put in place are killing trans youth. The GOP aims to complete their genocide of transgender people and will have the power to with Trump in power again. Democrats made it possible for me to come out, the GOP would rather I die than bother going back to the closet.
That's just my intersection of categories - cis women will face losing birth control and abortion rights, any movement by the executive to weed out white nationalism in the military and police will end, gerrymandering along racial lines will accelerate, any hope of combating climate change will be kneecapped (and billions will suffer from that alone), Ukraine will face genocide, Israel won't even have the lightest of guardrails to advance on the West Bank and Gaza, and our allies in NATO will be abandoned. Next 5 months are going to be the height of anxiety.
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i mean.... they weren't. they didn't vote for clinton and look what happened
Who is they here?
If it is, he'll definitely get to replace Thomas and Alito.
Exactly. Aim the lectures at Biden and the people enabling him. Someone in that admin should have been smart enough to know that denying the genocide wasn't a good look.
apologies for the derail, let's get back on topic
i don't want to derail, but the post i responded to was that you shouldn't take the clinton tone with people as she alienated those voters away from voting for her (which inherently means those non-clinton-voters didn't understand the consequences of staying home in 2016)
i don't want to derail, but the post i responded to was that you shouldn't take the clinton tone with people as she alienated those voters away from voting for her (which inherently means those non-clinton-voters didn't understand the consequences of staying home in 2016)
Oddly enough, that's also what's been hurting them in so many elections since. Hopefully that holds true in November.
There are very very few people that are actually aware of their decisions and the consequences. Honestly I used to think that liberals were smarter than conservatives but that was my own ignorance and biases. This forum was proof enough of the ignorance on the liberal side but I've see the ignorance first hand as well.
South Carolina is still suffering major consequences from people not taking 2016 seriously. Hell, this just happened this morning. SCOTUS siding with Republican Gerrymandering.
www.cbsnews.com
Supreme Court sides with South Carolina Republicans in redistricting dispute
The Supreme Court reversed a decision from lower court that found GOP lawmakers improperly used race when designing one of South Carolina's congressional districts.
www.cbsnews.com
If they can't be swayed by being reminded of the reprehensible actions of the previous administration, nor cowed by the threat of what a return of that admin would bring down upon themselves and their loved ones here at home, then I suppose there's no point and even trying to engage with them, since trying both of these tactics will likely always be considered "lecturing and browbeating".
Yep. If people don't budge on everything Trump has done and is set to do with another term, then it's pointless to even try with anyone like that.
Basically if we don't win the next couple of elections, the Supreme Court is basically gone for decades.
Yea, and with that you can also say goodbye to Dem ever being President again.
Clinton tried to warn people about the dangers of a Trump Presidency but neither the media reported it properly nor the people listened.
Hilary was 100% correct about every single thing she said and by the populous, was rewarded for that by easily winning the popular vote.
The last thing we should be doing is equivocating asking people to vote in November with "browbeating".
All of this. This thread has been extremely tame and full of data and citations. If this is browbeating then you aren't approaching any of it in good faith anyway. And its probably not worth engaging with folks that would make that claim/comparison.
But her tone tho. I agree that she won the pop vote and I wish she had won, but I hate how she keeps getting brought up as if she was wrong when she wasn't. She said this shit, we knew what was at stake and still... So give me some leeway if I am having a little dejavu and seem somewhat concerned... again
Even now you see the media reporting on literally everything Biden does, and he isn't helping himself by basically doing the heavy lifting for Republicans among younger voters with how he's handling Gaza (even here in Los Angeles/California, our local news has dominated for weeks by protests at university campuses). Meanwhile stuff like women's rights, SCOTUS siding with Republicans on redistricting, and Republicans stonewalling assistance to Ukraine are things that are just quietly happening out of sight again.
The media is desperate for another horse race, consequences be damned. It's not pragmatic to ignore the election and send the country down the shitter for potentially decades because Biden is being a fucking idiot in foreign policy (especially when we know the Republicans will be even worse for that, a Republican presidency would do everything in their power to hand Ukraine over to Russia and pave the way for Russia to start making moves against the rest of eastern Europe).
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The browbeating isn't the asking folks to vote part. It's the "you don't care about minorities and you are a terrible person" part. It's especially unproductive considering a major group organizing against Biden consists of Arab and Muslim folks.
It's not about Hillary being right or not. It's about if it was productive or not. Hillary's "deplorable" comment was a bad idea even if she was correct about Trump's voters.
But yeah, if the goal is to get folks to vote then tone matters. You can say it shouldn't, agreed, but it does.
Mainstream media has never been nor will ever be your friend.
They are going to do whatever makes them the most money.
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What's going on here isn't just asking people to vote. It's telling people that if they can't bring themselves to vote for a guy currently engaged in genocide and genocide denial that they don't care about other communities, or that they're just exercising their "privilege". That's the very definition of browbeating/shaming/finger-wagging.
Isn't Biden behind in polling right now for the important states? So if the media wants a horse race shouldn't they pivot to attacking trump/supporting Biden to get the polling closer again?
The people in this thread who understand what's at stake probably also realize that Biden's handling of I/P is the biggest risk to his election chances. If you want to use the next six months productively, I think you should try to do everything in your power to pressure Biden. The one thing he might care about more than supporting Israel is avoiding a humiliating loss to Trump. Help him understand how much his approach is hurting him.
If he doesn't change his stance, you can still vote for him on election day knowing you did all you could to help his chances. Getting in circular arguments in Era threads might help you vent your frustration, but it won't help Biden win.
If he doesn't change his stance, you can still vote for him on election day knowing you did all you could to help his chances. Getting in circular arguments in Era threads might help you vent your frustration, but it won't help Biden win.
All I read that as is Trump will get 1 or 2 more appointments and if that happens…that's the rest of my life fucked in this country. A good portion of my kid's lives as well. Fucking dreading November because Biden couldn't not contribute to a bit of genocide.
I don't believe there is anything that can be done to pressure Biden, outside of possibly withholding votes, on Israel. He's a true believer.
People are comfortable placing the blame on Biden for Israel but get defensive and don't want to take responsibly for their vote (or lack of vote) which results in Trump being re-elected.
Our actions have impacts.
When Trump starts putting immigrants into detention camps, removes rights (or worse) for women, LGBTQ+ and minorities, allows Ukrainians and Palestinians to be wiped off the map, cripples our climate progress, dismantles the Affordable Care Act, abandons environmental regulations, and more, you will bear responsibility for that outcome.
Also worth acknowledging that change is going to be most effective by pressuring your local representatives and senators. They're the ones drafting and passing the bills that fund this war after all. Call, write, show up to their office. If they're not hearing your voice, it's safe to assume your feelings are not making it out of this forum.
Our actions have impacts.
When Trump starts putting immigrants into detention camps, removes rights (or worse) for women, LGBTQ+ and minorities, allows Ukrainians and Palestinians to be wiped off the map, cripples our climate progress, dismantles the Affordable Care Act, abandons environmental regulations, and more, you will bear responsibility for that outcome.
Also worth acknowledging that change is going to be most effective by pressuring your local representatives and senators. They're the ones drafting and passing the bills that fund this war after all. Call, write, show up to their office. If they're not hearing your voice, it's safe to assume your feelings are not making it out of this forum.
Yeah I agree with you. I think there is a tiny chance he might care more about his legacy being destroyed by a historic loss to Trump. I mainly think it's more productive for people to focus on him than get angry at other Era members. I think even people that are guaranteed to vote for him should threaten to withhold their votes until election day.
NEVER FORGET.
McConnell argued to "let the people decide the 2016 election!" which was about 11 months away.
Under that logic, it made no sense for McConnell to fast track Trump's last pick with 7 days until the 2020 election.
Scum.
If he loses, Biden will own the loss and the responsibility for it. And holy shit yeah people are comfortable putting blame for Biden's Israel policies on him. They're HIS policies.
All other issues don't disappear because of Biden's handling of Gaza It's not wise to withhold votes on those. we aren't choosing one candidate over the other with their own benefits and weaknesses.
I think, if Trump wins in November, the responsibility for that lies with every single person who could have chipped in to stop it but didn't.
Then convince the Muslims in Michigan to vote for someone who is financing the destruction of people they know.
Blaming is useless it's a distraction. The goal should be to do the best that we can and not just let things unfold in front of us. A person takes an active role in an election no matter what they do.
Yup. GWB alone has ensured that to a fair degree with Roberts and Alito and now, instead of spending our time and energy pushing for better basics (federal parental/maternity leave, more action on climate change, etc), we have to spend that energy re-litigating hard won battles, like abortion, birth control, and, apparently, democracy.
Ya it really comes down to this, you either have solidarity with people who have family/friends that are currently being ethnically cleansed or you don't.
It's the numbers game of electoral politics coming to a head with the most inhumane human acts that can be committed.
Yup.
Is that true though? A lot of people in america are pro Israel, hell a lot of people think he isn't doing enough to support Israel, including Trump.
I think the perception he is too old and inflation are bigger risks for him.
Agreed. Everyone who could have sent the message to Biden that his abhorrent policies will not be rewarded will ultimately feel the sting of his defeat. Myself included, although I did not vote for him in the primary to send a message, but it clearly did nothing to deter him.
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I agree all this is important, but I disagree with people phrasing this as if he could replace "0-2" judges when it should probably be "2-4" or at the very least "1-3".
They should really be taking every step possible to avoid another RBG disaster. Hell, the article itself is even talking about how the Republicans will likely do the same thing if they have the presidency.
They should really be taking every step possible to avoid another RBG disaster. Hell, the article itself is even talking about how the Republicans will likely do the same thing if they have the presidency.
Oh come on.. there's no way this happens... Just no way... no way.
Biden will own the loss and move on to retirement with Jill. Meanwhile the US will be under a new dictatorship, Bibi will have anything he wants served to him on a golden platter, as well as Putin who annihilate Ukraine, and Xi for Taiwan. Trans people country wide will be decimated. Women's rights will continue to be reversed a century. Trump will send troops into Mexico, and deport every last immigrant in the country. Trump very well could start WWIII/nuclear war.
But yes...Biden will own up to his misgivings.
None of the conservative justices are old enough to likely die in the next 5 years and none of them would retire under Biden.
OP
OP
Any one of the older ones could drop dead this year, and it wouldn't be a shock. You'll get some lovely Heritage Foundation ones replacing Thomas and Alito with trump as president, though.
There's also considerably more at play than SCOTUS. Most cases aren't handled there.
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