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Report - Apple Vision Pro sales have ‘fallen sharply’ as Apple struggles to whip up demand
- Thread starter wafflebrain
- Start date
It's a weird miscalculation if they are betting on people wanting that. There WILL be people wanting that, when they hear about it. Wow, enormous screen for my favourite app. But then normalcy sets in and you find out that wearing something uncomfortable with a two hour battery life/something that requires a wire makes no sense for the average iPad app when you could just sit with your iPad wirelessly for 6-10 hours and have no discomfort.
I'm a big proponent of VR. I love it. And the comfort of headsets have come a long way, but we can't get around the fact that every headset is considerably less comfy to wear.... than no headset at all. But we accept it due to what we get in return - the immersion and the kind of experiences you just can't get without a headset. It's a tradeoff.
With the AVP, the trade is significantly worse than regular VR headsets. That (and the price) is it's biggest problems.
That's hyperbole. At 200 it would fly off the shelves as a media consumption device. I'd buy one even if Disney plus was the only app on it.
I think those glasses that work as an external display for $300-500 is what they should have gone for.
"Don't believe everything you read."
I think I'll apply that to a site called "uploadvr.com", too.
If this cost $200 it would be flying off the shelves. The Meta Quest 2 was $300 and sold 18 million headsets.
Heck I think even up to ~$1000 I think this would be doing well with Apple's brand value. $3500 is just so far into aggressively overpriced territory where it doesn't make sense for anyone but developers.
Cut the price down to $1k or under and sales will pick up. Absurd if they think people are willing to drop $3k + on a VR device
The name of such a product is SO obvious:
iGlasses
I actually have a pair of what you describe. Works perfectly with my Mac, Steamdeck and iPad. Image quality is most likely quite a bit better than AVP. Field of view is obviously a lot more limited but for what you use them for that matters little.
Weren't some folks theorizing that this is just Apple putting out a product that uses their tech IP and patents etc. so they can have *something* out there with it while they take their time working on the "real" debut product? Like, making this was taking longer than expected but they couldn't go too long without releasing something so they just put this stop gap device out there?
I'm not so sure that's how IP licensing and patents etc. work so I'd love to hear what more informed people think happened here.
I'm not so sure that's how IP licensing and patents etc. work so I'd love to hear what more informed people think happened here.
Unfortunate if true, but expected. I'd still like the device.
I don't remember if it's here or elsewhere where someone said that this is related to Tim Apple's refusal to invest in software. Every one of Apples new novel hardware entries had accompanying software to match and here there was not only zero software, but no support from third-parties either. In hindsight THAT was a major red flag.
I read this (and still do) as a very public facing concept test. However, concept testing is going to result in failure if you violate the cardinal rule of putting content first.
Mindshare is a thing and a lot of people here and elsewhere, including myself, called out early on that the technology for their "vision" probably doesn't exist. So this could have been their "placeholder" product. Whether they had a patent to park on...that's for people more familiar with patent law to say.
I don't remember if it's here or elsewhere where someone said that this is related to Tim Apple's refusal to invest in software. Every one of Apples new novel hardware entries had accompanying software to match and here there was not only zero software, but no support from third-parties either. In hindsight THAT was a major red flag.
I read this (and still do) as a very public facing concept test. However, concept testing is going to result in failure if you violate the cardinal rule of putting content first.
Mindshare is a thing and a lot of people here and elsewhere, including myself, called out early on that the technology for their "vision" probably doesn't exist. So this could have been their "placeholder" product. Whether they had a patent to park on...that's for people more familiar with patent law to say.
Nothing like that is required for patents. You have to publish to establish a copyright but that's not relevant here.
I think I am just misunderstanding the "use it or lose it" rule that I hear on the internet so much when it comes to that sort of thing.
And Apple is all about synergy with their existing products, so it seems like people should be walking around with a Vision Pro connected to their iPhone instead of a battery pack.
If it could fully replace my computer I might have bought it (when it's 2k cheaper lol). But I already tried that with an iPad Pro on two occasions and finally realized that iOS is just too limited to be a main driver. Unshackle it.
of course, it's a Newton, and the Quest is a Palm Pilot, and when the tech is finally good enough (it's not) we'll get an iPhone and an Android
I think you are closer to that than you think. 2k is a reasonable price for it to come down to. Vision OS is much better than iPad OS…. But it really needs the Mac as an app on it to be a computer replacement. Streaming a Mac display to it is one of the best features on it but I worry they know the Mac could be irrelevant if folded into it natively.
We are getting closer and closer to that form factor. TCL RayNeo x2 I think is a glimpse of the direction in think we will see companies go for in 5 years
Stuff like that is good to see. Believe me, as a current Quest 2 owner (who barely uses it cause, honestly, VR software is pretty crummy right now) I will be the first to jump on board with a proper eyeglasses formfactor should it come to pass. Unfortunately, there are major engineering challenges that have to be overcome to meet practicality and manufacturing requirements to make that a reality and I'm not terribly confident those will be coming any time soon.
Now that MetaOS is opening up to other hardware manufacturers and going the route of Google (e.g. market saturation of Android vs. Google Pixel), Apple is done unless they can price accordingly. As it is, I love my Quest 3 for which I primarily purchased as a gaming apparatus as opposed to a spatial computing device, but I'd be interested in seeing if another company like Samsung steps up to the mantle to give Apple a run for their money in this space
I wish this was more affordable, because there are things about it that seem very neat... But likely not something I would use enough to justify anything near the cost.
I'm all-in on Apple stuff and enjoy this kind of tech, but if I was going to drop $3500 in this space, it would be on a Quest 3 for myself and six of my closest friends.
I've been dreaming about being able to move app windows anywhere using AR/VR since long before the Vision Pro was announced. As a software engineer who always has plenty of different apps/windows open, something like this would be amazing for productivity.
A big main window with the IDE in the middle of my desk, 1-2 browser windows to the left of it, a bunch of terminal windows floating above, and Teams/Outlook somewhere else.
But it would have to have full, unlimited support for all software that is already out there. An iOS-like OS with all of its restrictions, cumbersome UX and fucking App Review? Yeah, no thanks.
A big main window with the IDE in the middle of my desk, 1-2 browser windows to the left of it, a bunch of terminal windows floating above, and Teams/Outlook somewhere else.
But it would have to have full, unlimited support for all software that is already out there. An iOS-like OS with all of its restrictions, cumbersome UX and fucking App Review? Yeah, no thanks.
The problem is to cut the price like that, Apple would have to cut out a lot of what makes the Vision Pro special.
The BOM of the 2 Micro-OLED panels alone is apparently $400. Add the M2 SOC and R1 SOC on top of that, the mostly metal construction, etc.
I wonder how many people actually want the metal & glass construction. Isn't that a big factor in why it's so heavy?
Partly, but it's just one of Apple's longstanding design philosophies. The airpods are plastic, a few accessories are plastic, but most of Apple's actual devices are primarily metal in construction, they think it makes them stand apart compared to like the Meta Quest 3 which is nearly all plastic.
One of the points that always stands out in people talking about the negative aspect of the Max though is the weight though due to the metal construction and how that impacts comfort when using it for an extended period of time. It is in fact why I crossed them off the list in consideration. Glad you like yours, but it is a valid point to what is considered as a drawback by many.
An experimental AR headset with no killer app at the price tag of 3500$ selling under expectations in a struggling economy?
Shit, fuck, man, who would've seen this coming.
Shit, fuck, man, who would've seen this coming.
Can you honestly say your app would be worth over 3000 Dollars?
The weight of them can become fatiguing after a few hours of usage (for me). I think the heat retention of the cups is the worst offender lol.
It's a PTSD related app for therapists and clients. Won't name (or confirm) it here due to wanting to retain my privacy on this forum. But it's basically available and optimised for every Apple platform. I think it's interesting how the unique aspects of Vision Pro might be beneficial to clients in this app.
If you or anyone else is interested, feel free to send me a DM.
It can be the cost of doing business for therapists who're interested in employing innovative technology to enhance their practice. It's certainly a very high quality app that, on Vision Pro, can open up new methods of treatment.
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Heh, if you acknowledge the weight and heat issues associated with the metal construction, how is it still your favorite part of them?
Because neither things routinely impact my enjoyment of the product. I'll bump up against those two issues every so often when I'm on a laundry folding marathon. A quick break allows the heat to dissipate. The weight while noticeable after a few hours isn't unbearable.
I just really appreciate the tactile feel of the construction. They have a premium feel that I find enjoyable and satisfying.
Were Apple expecting this move alot of units?
It costs $3000 and doesn't have an immediately obvious use case. There are very few people who have the money to drop three grand on something they might never use.
There is almost certainly a market for this stuff its just not at the price point they are selling it at.
I could see AR being a replacement for multiple monitor set-ups. In fact, it could be an improvement, under the right conditions. But the tech needs to mature alot before it gets there.
It costs $3000 and doesn't have an immediately obvious use case. There are very few people who have the money to drop three grand on something they might never use.
There is almost certainly a market for this stuff its just not at the price point they are selling it at.
I could see AR being a replacement for multiple monitor set-ups. In fact, it could be an improvement, under the right conditions. But the tech needs to mature alot before it gets there.
That's fair. I was just curious how you could acknowledge the common issues that people complain about it and still think it's the best aspect about it.
No they weren't. The issue being reported if true is it's falling short of even their low expectations.
It being iOS based certainly impacts my usability of it, but if you have a Mac then what are are speaking of does largely work. I can sit with a 5k display in front of me for my Mac desktop while safari, messages, discord, 3d models, and other apps surround my giant iMac screen. It really is a desk replacement in your backpack at times, or your desk in your bed. Or you desk on the couch.
The UX is great natively for non productivity, as a couch computer where you don't need a Mac, it does everything and more you could ask.
I think the last part of the UI to really click is when the phone can be used for text entry and as a trackpad for certain applications, instead of a Bluetooth keyboard and trackpad.
At the risk of being hated even more on this dumb site (<3), my experience owning this thing:
An experiment I did with myself was to avoid the VR market until Apple entered into it, if ever. I'm a product designer and I wanted to see what their design team specifically could cook up and I didn't want any expectations based on headsets that already exist at whatever price points.
So it was rumored for years, I always figured I'd be paying around $2k. They finally released it, I bought it, almost returned it, but kept it because I want to see this journey through, as painful as it may be looking.
AMA lol
I'm pretty forgiving of their hardware design team. The worst offenders are the Magic Mouse with the belly button lightning port (I kept the AA battery version up until a year ago), the first gen Apple Pencil, and HomePods (though that feels like more of a software issue). I'd love for them to finally do wrong by me.
I think the true decider will be WWDC. What will VisionOS 2 look like? How will they incentivize app developers to… develop? Will they randomly drop the price, a la iPhone 1? There are going to be a lot of signals that will tell us if they actually believe in the project or if they just threw it out there as a quick money grab only because they spent so much time on it, sell the team for parts, then integrate its best ideas into iPhone/other existing products. If we get VisionOS 1.3 with a few QOL improvements, that'd be the beginning of the death knell. Cuz that would mean there was no post-launch plan.
If you're currently a Vision Pro owner you feel like you feel like you've done everything you can with it and now it's a paper weight. If I couldn't use it as a remote display for my computer and work from wherever I want in the house, I would have returned it 1000%.
We'll see! I can't wait to see. But I can definitely seeing the Vision Pro going the way of the Trash Can Mac Pro. Obv not the same circumstances, but I hope they keep trying with Vision Pro. Everyone stands to benefit if they can get this tech into everyone's hands; the head of the Oculus division would tell you as much. Cuz despite the cost, there's still something very magical (barf) and ~ahead of its time~ with it.
An experiment I did with myself was to avoid the VR market until Apple entered into it, if ever. I'm a product designer and I wanted to see what their design team specifically could cook up and I didn't want any expectations based on headsets that already exist at whatever price points.
So it was rumored for years, I always figured I'd be paying around $2k. They finally released it, I bought it, almost returned it, but kept it because I want to see this journey through, as painful as it may be looking.
AMA lol
I'm pretty forgiving of their hardware design team. The worst offenders are the Magic Mouse with the belly button lightning port (I kept the AA battery version up until a year ago), the first gen Apple Pencil, and HomePods (though that feels like more of a software issue). I'd love for them to finally do wrong by me.
I think the true decider will be WWDC. What will VisionOS 2 look like? How will they incentivize app developers to… develop? Will they randomly drop the price, a la iPhone 1? There are going to be a lot of signals that will tell us if they actually believe in the project or if they just threw it out there as a quick money grab only because they spent so much time on it, sell the team for parts, then integrate its best ideas into iPhone/other existing products. If we get VisionOS 1.3 with a few QOL improvements, that'd be the beginning of the death knell. Cuz that would mean there was no post-launch plan.
If you're currently a Vision Pro owner you feel like you feel like you've done everything you can with it and now it's a paper weight. If I couldn't use it as a remote display for my computer and work from wherever I want in the house, I would have returned it 1000%.
We'll see! I can't wait to see. But I can definitely seeing the Vision Pro going the way of the Trash Can Mac Pro. Obv not the same circumstances, but I hope they keep trying with Vision Pro. Everyone stands to benefit if they can get this tech into everyone's hands; the head of the Oculus division would tell you as much. Cuz despite the cost, there's still something very magical (barf) and ~ahead of its time~ with it.