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Sanatana

Banned
Mar 2, 2020
544
Pacific Northwest
You know what? The "community" posting here are doing more to make me not want to post here than Cerium selling or the mods or whatever have been doing.

So many assholes fighting for Mods to be paid then the mods actually giving reasons why they volunteer and would rather not be paid, or bring up questions that would arise if they WERE being paid and then are basically being told they don't matter. Mods asking for basic fucking respect from users and getting told to fuck off basically. An Admin that put down a link for people to put their money where their mouth is regarding how Mods should get paid and then immediately getting backlash. Y'all think that would happen if they accepted payment from Cerium or the MOBA corp? As soon as they accept money from their position it goes from "they should be paid for their work!" to "they're only moderating for the money!".

Out of all this I went from thinking the mods were just kind of there, doing their stuff but maybe having problematic mods or some bad policies (which I've brought up before I've never been part of those communities so I've never seen where they've made mistakes as I don't go into those topics.) to thinking how much of a thankless position it is. They can do no right it seems and it's not surprising that most mods/admins would quit because of the posters rather than an ownership change.
Yeah, frankly it's getting exhausting at this point and honestly there's no point in continuing to argue for it. I'm disgusted at the people here who are insulting the moderators, which seems to be the same people who were advocating that they get paid for their labor. I'm realizing that it wouldn't make a difference if they were paid or no, people here are gonna continue treating them like scum on the bottom of their shoe. It's fucking embarrassing and I feel for the mods.
 
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Deleted member 87949

User requested account closure
Banned
Dec 11, 2020
145
I've requested account deletion, I can't agree to a company like Mobafire running this. I wish everyone who chooses to stay good luck.
 

benny

Member
Oct 26, 2017
381
I haven't been active on here a lot, because video games are dead but this situation deserves a "gg" to Cerium, whoever that person is. One wouldn't know because community participation clearly wasn't priority #1.

Conspiracy theories about the real reasons for the ERA split are being fed by this buyout. The corporate PR speak with the "clear fit" and then having it be a company that violates all kinds of things that this forum ostensibly stands for.

Just well done, man.

Now we just need someone to find some twitter posts from the CEO of MOBA that transwomen aren't women and we'll be golden.
 

Kazooie

Member
Jul 17, 2019
5,044
700,000 a year is not that much money.
365 days 30 staff members that is, what, 60 bucks a day per member? And that is ignoring all operating cost I'm sure a site this size has to cover.
But all of those 700k went to one person. Minus the costs, that was roughly 500k / year just for Cerium. I.e. a top 1% income for the US. That is a lot.
 

Kyuuji

The Favonius Fox
Member
Nov 8, 2017
32,302
If they make avatars circular I'm going to be super pissed
giphy.gif
 

deepFlaw

Knights of Favonius World Tour '21
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,501
All that money was going to one staff member, also this was offered up-front rather than just him literally making 700k a year (he could have made more than that for all we know).

I'm pretty sure the press release on the purchase specifically said that the site made 700k during the past year; that's where people are pulling that number from.
 

MondoMega

One Winged Slayer
Member
Jan 10, 2018
47,477
I see no reason why it won't be plastered. I think we all need to be a bit realistic about this situation. A small company doesn't just pay 4.5 m and then completely disappear in the background, just collecting ad-revenue money from status quo.

Putting up their brand logos and sister site links seems totally fair. I think we can even expect a sticky with upcoming events in dota and other mmos they are affiliated with.
I wish it were realistic to have complete transparency and honesty about how exactly this will go down from someone involved in negotiating the acquisition...

It'd be nice to take Cerium at his word, since the OP mentions the following

Their MO is to stay in the background and only handle the business and logistical end of things.
Their other sites will have no bearing on us and we will have no bearing on them.

but that'd mean trusting that MOBA Network are the "clear best fit" for this community; which might be true in his perspective, but we'll have to see what actually happens. Seeing some of the "sister sites" Era now be associated with and the other business endevaors the guy at the top gets into don't fill me with confidence!

That sticky thread idea is worse than the Sponsored Threads I was already doomposting about; you truly are despicable for putting that in my head :)
 

duckroll

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,225
Singapore
How could a mod get paid for their work when there's mods willing to do it for free?

That's the issue here that has been asked but hasn't been answered. I mean it has because they couldn't, and that's the issue people like Rover and CitizenVectron have been trying to address, much more eloquently than me.
They don't. If someone feels moderation is something they need to be paid for, don't it for free. If people aren't willing to pay, don't do it at all. If others are willing to do it for free and have the capacity to do so without needing to be paid, that generally means a paid role is not required. For that to change would require the people running it to have a reason to want to change it.

There has not been a good reasonable scenario put forward other than what sounds like:
"I personally feel this should be done and therefore I expect the business owner who I have never met and interacted with to agree with me, and I am very disappointed that the people actually doing this role also disagree with me. They are making things very hard for this imaginary group of people I imagine who want to do this role and are not getting the exact terms I feel they are getting."

It sounds dismissive because it is. The reality is that while people in the community might feel a ownership towards a forum and want to have a say, we really don't. Our opinions are mostly taken into mild consideration but does not matter. It might matter if people care enough to leave in large numbers but that does not appear to be a case. So I don't know what sort of "answer" you might be looking for. The moderators who are currently on board have no say in this either. They have no ownership or stake in what this place is. Being eloquent doesn't change the facts.

Instead of debating mods and trying to make them feel bad, which will really change nothing (other than getting more people to step down probably), take it up with the actual management and see if they give a shit. They probably don't.
 

Simuly

Alt-Account
Banned
Jul 8, 2019
1,281
Eh, I don't see the big deal. What are we going to do? Pack up and go to another forum? If that one turns out moderately successful it would be sold as well.
Definitely. Iirc evilore said at one point he was offered 6 mil for his site several years ago and declined. He would probably do anything to go back in time 5 years….

Looking at the state of NeoGaf now, what's it worth? Be lucky to get $1m.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,928
700,000 a year is not that much money.
365 days 30 staff members that is, what, 60 bucks a day per member? And that is ignoring all operating cost I'm sure a site this size has to cover.
Server costs are negligible. There's no video/image hosting or anything, just text. I'd be surprised if it's much more than $10k/year.

Besides mods, I'd imagine the only employees are a single web dev who may be working part time. Depends how much Cerium was handling himself. A full time web developer is what, like $100k/year? They're probably a contractor so maybe multiply the hourly rate by 1.5X.

I've never been involved in setting up hosting and long term development on a big site so I could be way off on some of this but it's clear that if the mods don't get paid and Cerium doesn't do any of the work, there's hundreds of thousands of dollars left over every year. Two things that don't make sense to me:

  1. Cerium selling it due to health problems. I get if you need to take a break from managing the site due to hospital stuff but he could have over 99% of the work to paid staff and still make enough to live rich.
  2. I think a handful of mods should be paid to review a select few topics (ones with lots of fanboys) or to review any posts that have hate speech or advocate violence. The rest of the mods can just stick to less volatile communities and once in a blue moon come across a post that says something bad. For the paid mods, I'd imagine five mods getting paid $1k/month = $60k/year.
The second point is easy to set up, when you report a post there's a form you fill out where you say what the problem with the post was and so all you need to do is add a couple fields to indicate the type of violation and the type of subcommunity . If it meets a particular trigger, then it goes to the top of the to-do list for the paid mods.

Basically, a system where you have a few mods who are responsible for dealing with the shit and where the rest are just like the current moderators, regular posters who have a good idea of how to keep discussion clean and just respond to stuff as they see it.
 

Einherjer

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,924
Germany
So Era now belongs to the same family as sites like mmo-champion (i guess you guys should definitely avoid the forums of your new sister site...), diablofans and wowdb? Jeez.
 
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Simuly

Alt-Account
Banned
Jul 8, 2019
1,281
and there's screencaps of the guy who just bagged 4.5 million calling Bernie Sanders a scam artist.


This all stinks. Who knows, maybe the end goal was to profit from this whole endeavour once Era grew big enough to sell.

Having said that, he sold at the right time as the idea of a 'forum' is kind of an anachronism at this point, as gaming communities move to more modern platforms. The recent poll on user's ages in the gaming section (cynically I ask, was that made for prospective buyers to gauge the site worth) showed the average user here is mid 30s with lots in their 40s.

Youngsters and ppl in their 20s just dont use forums, its mostly for us oldies. I expect userbase to decline near to long term, so getting $4.5m for it he played a blinder.
 

Gohlad

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
1,072
700,000 a year is not that much money.
365 days 30 staff members that is, what, 60 bucks a day per member? And that is ignoring all operating cost I'm sure a site this size has to cover.

But all of those 700k went to one person. Minus the costs, that was roughly 500k / year just for Cerium. I.e. a top 1% income for the US. That is a lot.

People also assume that the site has made 700k every year since it's inception lmfao

All that money was going to one staff member, also this was offered up-front rather than just him literally making 700k a year (he could have made more than that for all we know).

I'm pretty sure the press release on the purchase specifically said that the site made 700k during the past year; that's where people are pulling that number from.

The release stated that the 700k number was only until August, not the whole year, no? So ERA made him supposedly $1 million a year.
 

CDX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,476
I guess I just found it weird that info was completely MISSING from Cerium's OP and everyone had to find out some stuff from an OFFSITE press release.

Do the new owners actually own the site yet? Perhaps we have no direct communication because it's still in transition and they don't fully own it yet? Do the new owners have any intention of ever communicating to the members here directly on this site?

I dunno, I just think it'd be nice to hear about any expected changes (or no changes) directly from the new people.
 

duckroll

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,225
Singapore
I am wondering too why people do not bring this up more often. Blizzard isn't exactly in good graces with the community here.
Really? In less than a month the Diablo 2 Resurrected OT has 2301 posts contributed by 493 different members. The Final Fantasy Pixel Remasters OT which has been around since end July, and covers up to FFIV now, has contributions by 526 different members. I'll say Blizzard is plenty popular still, just that some people are very vocally against them. The community has never ever really been about "one" thing.
 

MondoMega

One Winged Slayer
Member
Jan 10, 2018
47,477
I am wondering too why people do not bring this up more often. Blizzard isn't exactly in good graces with the community here.
I've been trying! But like the actual incidents that took Blizzard (and Riot) out of the good graces for plenty of people around here, it doesn't seem like everyone really wants to talk about it.
 

PJV3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,676
London
All feels a bit weird considering this community was an exodus and not a struggling start up, i don't mind the selling up for a profit part, but i think if there was a variety of buyers then it should have ended as it started, with the community being involved.
 

Mabase

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,040
Why did MOBA Network want to buy ResetEra?
We fit with their user-driven approach. They're not a journalistic network, they're not a game publisher, there aren't a whole lot of popular gaming sites out there which suit them. They like ResetEra and they believe in it. At the end of the day it's an investment.

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
 

Siresly

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,585
I don't understand internet business. How a forum like this has "great growth potential."
But that being the clear priority in the press release is certainly disconcerting.
What they will do to try to achieve that, and what will happen if they can't.
Feels to me like this is the beginning of the end.
But until then, party on Garth.

But all of those 700k went to one person. Minus the costs, that was roughly 500k / year just for Cerium. I.e. a top 1% income for the US. That is a lot.
The new ceo is part of some online gambling joint. Our new sister forums now resembles neogaf political side after the exodus.
I won't feel bad about running an ad blocker from now on.
Yes.
 

CDX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,476
I don't understand internet business. How a forum like this has "great growth potential."
But that being the clear priority in the press release is certainly disconcerting.
What they will do to try to achieve that, and what will happen if they can't.
Feels to me like this is the beginning of the end.

At the very least I'm expecting more ads. That'd be one way to earn their 4.5 million back faster.

And despite what mods have said I expect eventually new sign ups to be opened up somewhat. ISP email addresses or work email addresses are both probably limiting potential growth.
 

Mabase

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,040
Nep Nep: They're saying 'Boooourns', sir!
Oh blimey, my dear, then let me rephrase:

Why did MOBA Network want to buy ResetEra?
We fit with their user-driven approach. They're not a journalistic network, they're not a game publisher, there aren't a whole lot of popular gaming sites out there which suit them. They like ResetEra and they believe in it. At the end of the day it's an investment.

At the end of the day it's an investment.
... it's an investment.

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUrnssss!
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,432
Will my personal account data be safe?

Yes! MOBA Network is not in the user data business and never will be. They're not going to sell your data. Nothing is going to change about how your data is handled and protected.
You sold our data (IP emails) without our consent and without giving us option to delete our accounts and personal info before doing so, ie you broke the GDPR law. Every single EU citizen here have a right now to bring a lawsuit against you.
Enjoy your 4.5M while it lasts.
 

Deleted member 8166

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,075
I don't understand internet business. How a forum like this has "great growth potential."
But that being the clear priority in the press release is certainly disconcerting.
What they will do to try to achieve that, and what will happen if they can't.
Feels to me like this is the beginning of the end.
But until then, party on Garth.




Yes.
more ads, more sponsored content, opening the forum to a more "diverse" crowd (i.e. more right leaning gamers), less moderation to generate more clicks, less discussion about issues around gaming companies and more "woah look at cyberpunk how awesome"..

these are all changes I now expect in the next 5 years.
You sold our data (IP emails) without our consent and without giving us option to delete our accounts and personal info before doing so, ie you broke the GDPR law. Every single EU citizen here have a right now to bring a lawsuit against you.
Enjoy your 4.5M while it lasts.
do you really think a person that saw ERA as an investment when they "founded" it and put money into it did not consult a lawyer before selling and did not make sure they're untouchable by pesky Europeans >>?
 

dglavimans

Member
Nov 13, 2019
7,671
Era: Railed for 30 pages about mods not being paid

Era mods: We cool wit it.

Era: Fuck you mods.
Because the moderators being okay with it doesn't fit the narrative that is decided on in this thread. And since Era sometimes isn't a place for different opinions we get stuff like this sadly
 

MechaX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,044
*boss gets a golden parachute*
onlookers: "that's awful, they deserve some of that for doing the work!"
moderators: "first of all how dare you."

My second favorite exchange in this topic was

"it wasn't like the old owner did nothing; he was involved in every crisis and incident the forums had!"
"Okay so what did he do? Because we kind of know nothing about him."
"You are not entitled to know anything about him, do not perceive him further."

I'm like cool, it's the mods/staff decision to keep doing what they want to do, but from the outside looking in… man y'all got taken for a ride right into the loving arms of an owner who runs sister websites where a good chunk of their audience believes that trans individuals aren't human beings
 
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Thorrgal

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,349
As for the folks cancelling their EraClear in protest that staff were robbed, you are free to send that to any staffer of your choosing. Our CashApps are open. 😌

How was this not a thing from the beginning? Anyway,

Mods you have to realize that even if we butt heads sometimes (most) of us don't hate you, and this "mods should get payed" thing is coming from a good place, as it should be clear from the amount of posts, and the diversity of users advocating for it. You HAVE to understand this. Just because someone was rude to you in the past, even if it is the same person who is now on this camp, doesn't invalidate this point. People will always get mad when they're banned, you can't latch onto that.

The value of Era is not on the users, like some have said, it's on the moderation team. Without the mods this place would be just like any other forum, that is, unreadable for someone who isn't a white cis straight male. I hope mods realize this, they could all move and make a new Forum and people would follow them. Not saying they (you) should do it, but be aware of this.

Moving on, the issue of mods getting payed is a perceived issue of fairness. People are mad because they think it should be fair that you, the backbone of the forum, get some kind of compensation, and are totally flabbergasted at someone cashing in millions of dollars and not sharing it with you. Someone who was your boss but also your friend, at least in our understanding. It doesn't have to do with anything else no there's no point in conflating other issues with it. I still hope you will somehow be, even if it is as a parting gift. So because people think it's unfair, they don't understand why so many of you are defending Cerium. Again not an attack on the mods, but an issue of perceived unfairness, squared. "He is not paying you, and you are defending him?". People don't understand it.

Now the saddest part of it all is when mods get mad at people trying to defend them and people get mad at mods for not allowing to be defended. Both get really indignant at each other because both camps come from the right place. Again, an issue of perceived unfairness, and that's a tricky issue.

And this is were the discussion gets stucked.

Finally there's the whole new argument of what to do moving forward, should mods get payed now that they're working for a corporation? I think yes, but is better not to mix arguments and discuss this issue in another post.

TLDR; The community appreciates the mods much more than they show on a daily basis, as they are the backbone of Era and they really think it would be fair to them to get some kind of compensation. For whatever reason the mods/user dialogue has gotten stuck and we should try to resolve this.
 

Thorrgal

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,349
They don't. If someone feels moderation is something they need to be paid for, don't it for free. If people aren't willing to pay, don't do it at all. If others are willing to do it for free and have the capacity to do so without needing to be paid, that generally means a paid role is not required. For that to change would require the people running it to have a reason to want to change it.

There has not been a good reasonable scenario put forward other than what sounds like:
"I personally feel this should be done and therefore I expect the business owner who I have never met and interacted with to agree with me, and I am very disappointed that the people actually doing this role also disagree with me. They are making things very hard for this imaginary group of people I imagine who want to do this role and are not getting the exact terms I feel they are getting."

It sounds dismissive because it is. The reality is that while people in the community might feel a ownership towards a forum and want to have a say, we really don't. Our opinions are mostly taken into mild consideration but does not matter. It might matter if people care enough to leave in large numbers but that does not appear to be a case. So I don't know what sort of "answer" you might be looking for. The moderators who are currently on board have no say in this either. They have no ownership or stake in what this place is. Being eloquent doesn't change the facts.

Instead of debating mods and trying to make them feel bad, which will really change nothing (other than getting more people to step down probably), take it up with the actual management and see if they give a shit. They probably don't.

The thesis of your post seems to be "If others are willing to do it for free and have the capacity to do so without needing to be paid, that generally means a paid role is not required". This is interesting and we can explore it further.

"Instead of debating mods and trying to make them feel bad, which will really change nothing". This I don't agree with, as said in my post above. We are not trying to make the mods feel bad and framing it this way really achieves nothing.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,135
When users and mods signed up for ResetEra no monetary compensation was promised, mentioned, or in your ToS. To think you are entitled to anything after the owner sells is beyond the reality of comprehension. No one should feel bad for anyone not getting paid in this situation. Everyone volunteered to be here.
To think that the solution would be to ask for donations from us, the product, is absolute lunacy. I shouldn't have to bribe the prison guards with cigs to not get shanked.
Lots of hands waving in the air in panic over assumptions.
 

Paquete_PT

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
5,335
As for the folks cancelling their EraClear in protest that staff were robbed, you are free to send that to any staffer of your choosing. Our CashApps are open. 😌
I realize we're not entitled to any justification from the mods, you have the right to choose how you do what you do. This all comes down to a lack of communication with the general audience of the forum. May I ask you something, did admins/mods know that the forum had generated 700k the last year?
 

rrost

Banned
Jul 20, 2018
480
As for the folks cancelling their EraClear in protest that staff were robbed, you are free to send that to any staffer of your choosing. Our CashApps are open. 😌
Oh wow I missed this.

As a potential customer I have few queries regarding this model. Hopefully you give clear answers regarding the workings.

1.) will I get all the perks of era clear if I transfer an equivalent amount of money to you or other staff?
2.) will I get a receipt regarding the purchase, signed by ResetEra Llc, that can be presented as a legal proof if any dispute happens. You know the usual stuff.
3) Can I cancel the subscription in case of any reason and get the money Back?
4) what safety measure do you plan to take if any of the stuff use some burner accounts to launder the money or any such type of issues?

Thanks in advance.
 
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