Returnal Plot Discussion [Unmarked Spoilers]

[TrueSloth]

I'm surprised there isn't a place to discuss what's going on in the game. I just beat it myself and want to hear some thoughts around your experience with the plot and what you think.

As a warning, there are unmarked Spoilers in this thread.




.....













Ok. So with that out of the way...

I just beat the game, there are still some questions I have, in particular with what the Astronaut's association with everything is, but in short this entire game seems not only heavily inspired by scifi media, but also Silent Hill lol. You have the character who is stuck in some manifestation of their guilt, because they won't accept their actions as the cause of the death of their daughter. And the environment, in particular the last biome reflects that night she crashed the car into the river as she slowly accepts what she has done.

Basically, this is a sad mom game.

What are your thoughts?

 

[bluexy]

I'm surprised there isn't a place to discuss what's going on in the game. I just beat it myself and want to hear some thoughts around your experience with the plot and what you think.

As a warning, there are unmarked Spoilers in this thread.




.....













Ok. So with that out of the way...

I just beat the game, there are still some questions I have, in particular with what the Astronaut's association with everything is, but in short this entire game seems not only heavily inspired by scifi media, but also Silent Hill lol. You have the character who is stuck in some manifestation of their guilt, because they won't accept their actions as the cause of the death of their daughter. And the environment, in particular the last biome reflects that night she crashed the car into the river as she slowly accepts what she has done.

Basically, this is a sad mom game.

What are your thoughts?

Click to shrink...

quick note, helios is her son. the daughter aspect of the story is a reference to theia's near-identical car-crash in which selene was in the car and miraculously fine. touch on this later.

but yes, the impression I got is that selene's entire journey is one of exploring mental illness surrounding the car crash, with resolving themes of self-acceptance. admitting not just that her son is dead but further that she's personally responsible.

i'm also a subscriber to the theory that selene is also theia. that selene is her escape from the realities of her actions. that it was theia, not selene that had the accident, became crippled, and killed her son. that selene became the deep space explorer that she'd dedicated her life toward. that theia in her wheelchair is someone she could aim her hatred and anger toward. that theia crashing the car and selene surviving was just a creation in her mind that was intended to replace the true memory of theia's crash killing helios.

in greek history helios is the son of theia and hyperion, selene being a sibling of helios and not his parent. this adds a new layer to the Hyperion boss fight, too. as what role would helios' grandfather necessarily play in the story, as opposed to selene/theia's husband and the father of helios.

 

[ArjanN]

Haven't played the game since no PS5, but from what I saw i figured it would be some sort of Jacob's Ladder type situation.

 

[Fandorin]

Just finished the Third Act yesterday, which unlocks the "true" ending, and I think it's not exactly clear whether Selene is the driver or the child in the car sequence. Some audio logs and the house sequences indicate that her mother (Theia) was in an accident and ultimately prevented her from going into the Atropos (or whatever else) mission.

The game plays a lot with that angle by changing your perspective in the later house sequences, so it's unclear how it exactly went down. Regardless, I think Selene is indeed stuck in a purgatory loop, maybe due to her own actions or that of the alien thingy that we see at the ending of the Second Act. The true ending indicates that Selene escaped the loop by traveling through time back to the accident as the astronaut, however the final audio log also indicates that Selene remained in Atropos forever, accepting it as her new home.The game is not interested in answering those questions though, so it doesn't really matter.

 

[TrueSloth]

quick note, helios is her son. the daughter aspect of the story is a reference to theia's near-identical car-crash in which selene was in the car and miraculously fine. touch on this later.

but yes, the impression I got is that selene's entire journey is one of exploring mental illness surrounding the car crash, with resolving themes of self-acceptance. admitting not just that her son is dead but further that she's personally responsible.

i'm also a subscriber to the theory that selene is also theia. that selene is her escape from the realities of her actions. that it was theia, not selene that had the accident, became crippled, and killed her son. that selene became the deep space explorer that she'd dedicated her life toward. that theia in her wheelchair is someone she could aim her hatred and anger toward. that theia crashing the car and selene surviving was just a creation in her mind that was intended to replace the true memory of theia's crash killing helios.

in greek history helios is the son of theia and hyperion, selene being a sibling of helios and not his parent. this adds a new layer to the Hyperion boss fight, too. as what role would helios' grandfather necessarily play in the story, as opposed to selene/theia's husband and the father of helios.

Click to shrink...

That makes a lot more sense. And I figured there was a deeper tie to greek history there.

 

[bluexy]

Just finished the Third Act yesterday, which unlocks the "true" ending, and I think it's not exactly clear whether Selene is the driver or the child in the car sequence. Some audio logs and the house sequences indicate that her mother (Theia) was in an accident and ultimately prevented her from going into the Atropos (or whatever else) mission.

The game plays a lot with that angle by changing your perspective in the later house sequences, so it's unclear how it exactly went down. Regardless, I think Selene is indeed stuck in a purgatory loop, maybe due to her own actions or that of the alien thingy that we see at the ending of the Second Act. The true ending indicates that Selene escaped the loop by traveling through time back to the accident as the astronaut, however the final audio log also indicates that Selene remained in Atropos forever, accepting it as her new home.The game is not interested in answering those questions though, so it doesn't really matter.

Click to shrink...

The question people need to ask after finishing the secret ending is -- what about what just happened would allow Selene to escape the loop? Because if you consider any of the alien world stuff literal and important, the lore of the alien world, Selene's confusion about the alien world, or consider any of the "real world" time travel stuff -again, literal- then absolutely nothing is resolved. As such, you either have to think this is the worst story ever, or that there was a resolution and you just need to key into it.

So what happened in the secret ending? Selene is extremely angry at the crippled woman in the wheelchair. Selene is the astronaut that caused the accident. Selene is the driver in the accident and she escaped to the surface without the child, surviving.

Obviously, interpretation of these three things is going to range depending on how literal people want to take them. For example, Selene very clearly didn't literally beat up a monstrous crippled woman's corpse that attacked her. It's also extremely unlikely that Selene was in an astronaut's suit on the bridge in the middle of the night. It's certainly possible that Selene was driving that car and crashed it, but that could be a metaphor, too.

Dead woman anger -- This could, nonliterally, be two things. Selene is angry at her mother, or Selene is angry at herself. The mother doesn't make sense to me, because we don't have any good reason for why Selene would be angry at her mother. If Selene is angry at herself, it's clear why. She's blaming herself for being crippled, for being stuck this way. For living the life the way she did. For the potential death of Helios. A more literal interpretation, a monster that looks like Selene's dead mom attacking Selene, is possible but I don't think is worth entertaining.

Selene in the Astronaut Suit - It's literal and Selene got time-ported to the bridge in weird astronaut suit/it's a flashback and Selene was literally on that bridge in that suit at that moment/it's non-literal and Selene is realizing that the car crash was simply her own fault caused by her obsession with becoming an astronaut. Again, the first two are absurd and don't offer any real resolution. The third? Absolutely.

Selene Swimming to the Surface - It's sci-fi literal and Selene is rising to surface of the deepest depths on her sci-fi planet/it's literal and Selene is rising from the car crash leaving Helios behind/it's literal and Selene is flashing back to the experience of her mother who crashed before her/it's metaphorical and represents Selene's escaping being trapped on the planet and the time loop/it's metaphorical and represents Selene's realization that she killed her son and that the entire sci-fi premise wasn't real. Lots of options here. I think there are multiple meanings. Selene being in a car crash and her son dying makes sense to me, with the metaphor of her accepting it also making sense. It's also possible that the entire car crash thing is a metaphor, too, just an example of Selene disregarding her son's life in pursuit of her personal goals. That's probably a bit too distant from what actually happened in the game tho.

Hopefully that explains why I came to the conclusions I did. Selene crashing because she was out of it due to her astronaut rejection or frustrations with life, accidentally killing her son in the process, and the entire game being a metaphor for her processing everything fits with the endings and provides a meaningful resolution. I don't see how considering any of the sci-fi stuff as literal stuff that happens makes sense, creates a cohesive story, or provides a proper conclusion.

 

[Miniature Kaiju]

Big issue I have with the theory of Helios being Selene/Theia's son is that there isn't much to support that in the game at all.

Maybe you could argue that the house visions from the kid's perspective would be Selene projecting herself into him, but then again, nothing there supports it being anything else than she relieving her childhood.

Also, that creates a lot of weird symbolic relationships with the ship being called Helios.

EDIT:

Thea/Theia/Euryphaessa was not only mother to Helios, Selene and Eos (Sun, Moon and Dawn, respectively), but the Titaness of Light - i.e. responsible for giving things their shine/brilliance. Helios would be the primary light in the firmament; Selene, much dimmer, her light merely a reflection of Helios'.

Two interesting aspects about the ASTRA rejection letter: Selene distinctly says it's not hers; it goes being rejecting the person, but highlights that if they ever see a position more suited to them, they should apply to it.

Vassos, Selene's surname, comes from Vassilios, directly descended from Basileos, kingly/royal.

Ixion's namesake was mostly known for being the first kinslayer, so definitely some murder thing going on.

 

[taepoppuri]

The kid in house cutscene is not Selene, you look at the child's shadow and the model is different (a boy with short hair) and the credit has a boy actor listed as Heilos.

 

[OhSatan]

The escape, live a happy fulfilling live, die and then revive part I thought it was BRILLIANT but in the context of a personal hell felt lacking for me I wanted some glue to it like the town on Silent Hill or Cthulhu.

 

[JJD]

I thought Hyperion was some manifestation of her father. Didn't she said in an audio log something about her father playing the piano or something like that?

 

[Qvoth]

so... what's the deal with the cthulu in the lake?

 

[TrueSloth]

I thought Hyperion was some manifestation of her father. Didn't she said in an audio log something about her father playing the piano or something like that?

Click to shrink...

Hyperion is her father in greek mythology, so you're right.
I guess after reading some discussions here, the resentment toward her mother doesn't quite make sense to me and probably what throws me off the most. It makes sense to me that this experience is a metaphor for processing the guilt around the accident. I think because of the time period, the old astronaut in some sense represents her obsession with work. It represents many other things as well (guilt and her mother??).

Also at the bottom of the ocean it when she saw that cthulhu like creature, it seemed like it was hovering over something that looked like a brain? I'm wondering is that is supposed to be her subconscious because she's asking it "is this what you wanted me to see?" as if it's some sort of self-reflected revelation. Just speculating though.

 

[Mary Celeste]

wow I got the true ending and never once even realized she had a son, let alone that it was Helios. Where does that come up ingame?

 

[Modest_Modsoul]

I don't even know there was a "boy" in this game as her "son" implied somewhere...

Though, while I enjoy the mysteries & whatnot, I was hoping this was full fledged sci-fi of real aliens, instead it was hinted all of these were in Selene's head? 🤷

 

[BloodHound]

The question people need to ask after finishing the secret ending is -- what about what just happened would allow Selene to escape the loop? Because if you consider any of the alien world stuff literal and important, the lore of the alien world, Selene's confusion about the alien world, or consider any of the "real world" time travel stuff -again, literal- then absolutely nothing is resolved. As such, you either have to think this is the worst story ever, or that there was a resolution and you just need to key into it.

So what happened in the secret ending? Selene is extremely angry at the crippled woman in the wheelchair. Selene is the astronaut that caused the accident. Selene is the driver in the accident and she escaped to the surface without the child, surviving.

Obviously, interpretation of these three things is going to range depending on how literal people want to take them. For example, Selene very clearly didn't literally beat up a monstrous crippled woman's corpse that attacked her. It's also extremely unlikely that Selene was in an astronaut's suit on the bridge in the middle of the night. It's certainly possible that Selene was driving that car and crashed it, but that could be a metaphor, too.

Dead woman anger -- This could, nonliterally, be two things. Selene is angry at her mother, or Selene is angry at herself. The mother doesn't make sense to me, because we don't have any good reason for why Selene would be angry at her mother. If Selene is angry at herself, it's clear why. She's blaming herself for being crippled, for being stuck this way. For living the life the way she did. For the potential death of Helios. A more literal interpretation, a monster that looks like Selene's dead mom attacking Selene, is possible but I don't think is worth entertaining.

Selene in the Astronaut Suit - It's literal and Selene got time-ported to the bridge in weird astronaut suit/it's a flashback and Selene was literally on that bridge in that suit at that moment/it's non-literal and Selene is realizing that the car crash was simply her own fault caused by her obsession with becoming an astronaut. Again, the first two are absurd and don't offer any real resolution. The third? Absolutely.

Selene Swimming to the Surface - It's sci-fi literal and Selene is rising to surface of the deepest depths on her sci-fi planet/it's literal and Selene is rising from the car crash leaving Helios behind/it's literal and Selene is flashing back to the experience of her mother who crashed before her/it's metaphorical and represents Selene's escaping being trapped on the planet and the time loop/it's metaphorical and represents Selene's realization that she killed her son and that the entire sci-fi premise wasn't real. Lots of options here. I think there are multiple meanings. Selene being in a car crash and her son dying makes sense to me, with the metaphor of her accepting it also making sense. It's also possible that the entire car crash thing is a metaphor, too, just an example of Selene disregarding her son's life in pursuit of her personal goals. That's probably a bit too distant from what actually happened in the game tho.

Hopefully that explains why I came to the conclusions I did. Selene crashing because she was out of it due to her astronaut rejection or frustrations with life, accidentally killing her son in the process, and the entire game being a metaphor for her processing everything fits with the endings and provides a meaningful resolution. I don't see how considering any of the sci-fi stuff as literal stuff that happens makes sense, creates a cohesive story, or provides a proper conclusion.

Click to shrink...

The bold makes sense to me and I'm not sure how to feel about the whole live, die and repeat on an alien world is all some twisted fantasy she thought up in her mind to cope with the trauma of killing her son due to her ambition.

So why the Cthulu monster at the bottom of the lake? Manifestation of her son's favorite toy?
Why is Act 1 and Act 2 separated by 63 years?
You got a break down of what all the bosses would represent in her psyche? Obviously Hyperion is her father. But why is something like Ophion the final boss?
It's literally impossible to do a sequel with Selene if the ending is of her finally accepting her loss?

 

[Bulby]

Son?

I was very confused. I didnt unlock all the story parts, but I thought it was her daughter in the back of the car and Selene driving. Then I thought I read that actually it was her mum driving and Selene was the kid. So I have zero idea what is going on.

 

[War95]

You know Helios is the name of the kid on a house trip when the door of his room close on you and you can read "Helios" on it. I think Selene actually went to space because the journey wasnt ment to go back to Earth so the whole second part of the game feels like an derange dream of hers. She is trap there because of the abyssal god, even the house is an extrange rock formation when the spell is broken.

 

[Chibs]

Son?

I was very confused. I didnt unlock all the story parts, but I thought it was her daughter in the back of the car and Selene driving. Then I thought I read that actually it was her mum driving and Selene was the kid. So I have zero idea what is going on.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, people seem to think Helios is the son of Selene.
I'm honestly not so sure about that, I kinda thought Helios was just the name Selene gave to her room as a child, her safe haven so to speak. It would make sense for the ship to have that same name as it is her only safe place on Atropos.

Personally I think it was Theia driving the car and Selene was in the back. The driver looked exactly like Selene, but had no heterochromia (unless the light was playing tricks there). I figured Theia was crippled and Selene became an astronaut and lived out her mom's wishes only to get stuck in a purgatory leading back to the moment that defined the rest of her life, the crash.

 

[War95]

For what is worth in the spanish translation when Helios talks it shows "Niño" (boy) as translation so i dont think he is young Selene

 

[BloodHound]

Reddit Theory that talks about everything being real (Which I initially thought):

Atropos is a god/living planet that the sentients turned to for ascension, though they usually fail. In Selene's case, the planet actually did help her ascend (perhaps twice!). First, it allowed her to live out her dream of becoming a deep space explorer. In order to make this happen, Atropos/Selene create a time loop where she, as the Astronaut, causes the accident that crippled her mother, allowing Selena to step out of Theia's shadow and join ASTRA. The time loop goes: Astronaut causes crash -> Selene joins Astra —> Goes to Atropos -> Shoots down the next cycle's ship and strands a new Selene (let's call her Selene B) —> Selene A becomes the new astronaut and is taken down into the deep to die, while Selene B starts fighting her way through Atropos. Every dead Selene you encounter is just one that failed to achieve "ascension" and become the new Astronaut. (Maybe Atropos brings these Selenes back to life repeatedly, or there are more time shenanigans involved. This is why you "remember" your previous Returns, but every time you encounter a voice log you don't remember recording it. It's a different instance of yourself). Selene A has to die because otherwise would be multiple instances of her running around in one timeline. The problem with this loop is that it leaves Selene with no future after Atropos, because she has to die and become the Astronaut. Her life is solely about getting herself to Atropos, and she's given up control of her own fate. The Secret Ending is her second ascension: she doesn't just accept the the fact that she's responsible for everything, she embraces it. She realizes that her mother was a monster, obsessed with her career and neglectful to daughter, and tells her to leave her alone. Selene isn't happy that she crippled her mother Theia, but faced with the full realization that it let her escape her shadow — by surpassing her — she's OK with it. This is why you only get the secret ending by doing all the house missions; you're processing the guilt. Either Atropos finally lets you leave, unburdened by the past, or you've defied Atropos and fate just through force of will. ... this could also set up some kind of sequel because you've now broken the timestream and there may be more than one Selene running around.

 

[War95]

Reddit Theory that talks about everything being real (Which I initially thought):

Atropos is a god/living planet that the sentients turned to for ascension, though they usually fail. In Selene's case, the planet actually did help her ascend (perhaps twice!). First, it allowed her to live out her dream of becoming a deep space explorer. In order to make this happen, Atropos/Selene create a time loop where she, as the Astronaut, causes the accident that crippled her mother, allowing Selena to step out of Theia's shadow and join ASTRA. The time loop goes: Astronaut causes crash -> Selene joins Astra —> Goes to Atropos -> Shoots down the next cycle's ship and strands a new Selene (let's call her Selene B) —> Selene A becomes the new astronaut and is taken down into the deep to die, while Selene B starts fighting her way through Atropos. Every dead Selene you encounter is just one that failed to achieve "ascension" and become the new Astronaut. (Maybe Atropos brings these Selenes back to life repeatedly, or there are more time shenanigans involved. This is why you "remember" your previous Returns, but every time you encounter a voice log you don't remember recording it. It's a different instance of yourself). Selene A has to die because otherwise would be multiple instances of her running around in one timeline. The problem with this loop is that it leaves Selene with no future after Atropos, because she has to die and become the Astronaut. Her life is solely about getting herself to Atropos, and she's given up control of her own fate. The Secret Ending is her second ascension: she doesn't just accept the the fact that she's responsible for everything, she embraces it. She realizes that her mother was a monster, obsessed with her career and neglectful to daughter, and tells her to leave her alone. Selene isn't happy that she crippled her mother Theia, but faced with the full realization that it let her escape her shadow — by surpassing her — she's OK with it. This is why you only get the secret ending by doing all the house missions; you're processing the guilt. Either Atropos finally lets you leave, unburdened by the past, or you've defied Atropos and fate just through force of will. ... this could also set up some kind of sequel because you've now broken the timestream and there may be more than one Selene running around.

Click to shrink...

I agree with this theory and I hope Housemarque is preparing a DLC to fight the Atropos god

 

[Deleted member 56266]

I was curious about the significance of the kids toy being an octopus and the alien entity which brought Selene to Atropos seemingly being a manifestation of that?

 

[Paper Cheese]

Son?

I was very confused. I didnt unlock all the story parts, but I thought it was her daughter in the back of the car and Selene driving. Then I thought I read that actually it was her mum driving and Selene was the kid. So I have zero idea what is going on.

Click to shrink...

It's sort of both.

It's extremely easy to miss, but there are actually two car crashes in the game. One with Selene's mother and Selene in the car, which sees Theia put in a wheelchair and Selene survive miraculously unhurt, and a second car crash with Selene driving and her son in the back. In this one, I believe Selene escapes but Helios, her son, doesn't survive. This is mirrored by the crash on the planet - Helios, the ship, is left beyond repair. There's also some suggestion that Selene left Helios in the car, instead choosing to save herself, which she relives on each loop on Atropos - leaving the ship brings up the message "Helios Abandoned" each time, and I don't think that's a coincidence.

Now, like I said, most players (including myself) will miss that there are actually two different parent-child relationships shown throughout the game, and I think that's entirely on purpose. The whole point of Returnal is the loop - repeating the same actions, slightly differently but entirely familiar - and I think that extends to Selene's past as well. Selene didn't like her mother, that much is clear. Before the accident, her mother was obsessed with her work, with travelling into space. After the accident, her career left in tatters due to her injury, she resented Selene and blamed her.

Despite growing to hate her mother, Selene ended up becoming so much like her. She too looked to travel into space, partially out of the guilt, to do what her mother couldn't. She too is distant from her child, and she too takes drives the car off a bridge. Even before she reached Atropos, this purgatory type planet, she was caught in a loop, from mother to child. It's possible that her becoming the Astronaut, and appearing in the road, is her realising that she has become her mother, and she is to blame for the accident.

There's definitely some stuff I can't quite put together - it's unclear whether Selene ever actually became an astronaut and crashed on a Silent Hill-style planet, or if Atropos is purely a purgatory she's experiencing following a normal death on earth, since some of the data entries and audio logs suggest she was rejected by ASTRA for the space mission. And a lot of this is based off what I remember of audio logs (I want to go through them all once I've found them all) but I hope someone else finds it an interesting interpretation at least.

 

[War95]

It's sort of both.

It's extremely easy to miss, but there are actually two car crashes in the game. One with Selene's mother and Selene in the car, which sees Theia put in a wheelchair and Selene survive miraculously unhurt, and a second car crash with Selene driving and her son in the back. In this one, I believe Selene escapes but Helios, her son, doesn't survive. This is mirrored by the crash on the planet - Helios, the ship, is left beyond repair. There's also some suggestion that Selene left Helios in the car, instead choosing to save herself, which she relives on each loop on Atropos - leaving the ship brings up the message "Helios Abandoned" each time, and I don't think that's a coincidence.

Now, like I said, most players (including myself) will miss that there are actually two different parent-child relationships shown throughout the game, and I think that's entirely on purpose. The whole point of Returnal is the loop - repeating the same actions, slightly differently but entirely familiar - and I think that extends to Selene's past as well. Selene didn't like her mother, that much is clear. Before the accident, her mother was obsessed with her work, with travelling into space. After the accident, her career left in tatters due to her injury, she resented Selene and blamed her.

Despite growing to hate her mother, Selene ended up becoming so much like her. She too looked to travel into space, partially out of the guilt, to do what her mother couldn't. She too is distant from her child, and she too takes drives the car off a bridge. Even before she reached Atropos, this purgatory type planet, she was caught in a loop, from mother to child. It's possible that her becoming the Astronaut, and appearing in the road, is her realising that she has become her mother, and she is to blame for the accident.

There's definitely some stuff I can't quite put together - it's unclear whether Selene ever actually became an astronaut and crashed on a Silent Hill-style planet, or if Atropos is purely a purgatory she's experiencing following a normal death on earth, since some of the data entries and audio logs suggest she was rejected by ASTRA for the space mission. And a lot of this is based off what I remember of audio logs (I want to go through them all once I've found them all) but I hope someone else finds it an interesting interpretation at least.

Click to shrink...

I think she really went to space but later she went rogue to explore Atropos because the "White shadow" signal, that was probably just an hallucination created by the god of the planet to lure her in. In the emails Selene talks about exploring and her coworkers ask if she has the permission to do so, she doesnt respond and leaves

 

[Dr. Sanchez]

I noticed how the lore slabs sound like they were written by the sentients, but in act 2 it's apparent that Selene wrote the messages in this time. Also, the translation accuracy in biomes 1-3 increase as you collects the glyphs, but decrease in the next biomes, which I found interesting.

 

[BloodHound]

It's sort of both.

It's extremely easy to miss, but there are actually two car crashes in the game. One with Selene's mother and Selene in the car, which sees Theia put in a wheelchair and Selene survive miraculously unhurt, and a second car crash with Selene driving and her son in the back. In this one, I believe Selene escapes but Helios, her son, doesn't survive. This is mirrored by the crash on the planet - Helios, the ship, is left beyond repair. There's also some suggestion that Selene left Helios in the car, instead choosing to save herself, which she relives on each loop on Atropos - leaving the ship brings up the message "Helios Abandoned" each time, and I don't think that's a coincidence.

Now, like I said, most players (including myself) will miss that there are actually two different parent-child relationships shown throughout the game, and I think that's entirely on purpose. The whole point of Returnal is the loop - repeating the same actions, slightly differently but entirely familiar - and I think that extends to Selene's past as well. Selene didn't like her mother, that much is clear. Before the accident, her mother was obsessed with her work, with travelling into space. After the accident, her career left in tatters due to her injury, she resented Selene and blamed her.

Despite growing to hate her mother, Selene ended up becoming so much like her. She too looked to travel into space, partially out of the guilt, to do what her mother couldn't. She too is distant from her child, and she too takes drives the car off a bridge. Even before she reached Atropos, this purgatory type planet, she was caught in a loop, from mother to child. It's possible that her becoming the Astronaut, and appearing in the road, is her realising that she has become her mother, and she is to blame for the accident.

There's definitely some stuff I can't quite put together - it's unclear whether Selene ever actually became an astronaut and crashed on a Silent Hill-style planet, or if Atropos is purely a purgatory she's experiencing following a normal death on earth, since some of the data entries and audio logs suggest she was rejected by ASTRA for the space mission. And a lot of this is based off what I remember of audio logs (I want to go through them all once I've found them all) but I hope someone else finds it an interesting interpretation at least.

Click to shrink...

 

[War95]

I actually believed for a moment that the sentients were Selenes for many loops distorted into an eldtrich lifeform lol

 

[BloodHound]

I noticed how the lore slabs sound like they were written by the sentients, but in act 2 it's apparent that Selene wrote the messages in this time. Also, the translation accuracy in biomes 1-3 increase as you collects the glyphs, but decrease in the next biomes, which I found interesting.

Click to shrink...

She definitely wrote them. There are words on some of the slabs only she would know.

 

[Mr.Fletcher]

Super great theories in here. I don't have much to add (yet). Still processing what I think it all means, but it's certainly interesting to read all this.

 

[Arex]

I'm watching Max's livestream where he just reached act 3, and I don't get it still lol. Reading the posts here just adds to the confusion. Hopefully he'll finish act 3 before RE8 lol :p

 

[Ahti]

It's extremely easy to miss, but there are actually two car crashes in the game.

Click to shrink...

That`s interesting. Is this in the secret ending or in one of those house scenes (I haven`t watched them all yet)?

My theory so far would be, that the child we play as in some of these scenes, is little Selene. But in the third or fourth scene there`s a phone call from adult Selene and she tells the child to warm up food because she won`t come home that day...which confused me at first. So I thought, this was kinda like Selene`s Ego talking to her Id (think of Freud`s model of the psyche) which would be a metaphor for Selene not having fully processed her trauma, leaving her "child-self" behind.

 

[Magic Mushroom]

The Astra rejection letter isn't Selene's. It's her mother's, who is rejected for her handicap. As Paper Cheese says, there are two crashes. One with Theia, her daughter Selene and her brother Helios (note that Selene and Helios are siblings in Greek mythology). In the first, Theia gets crippled, Helios dies and Selene survives. Her mother blames Selene for preveting her from living out her dream as an astronaut, leading to an abusive relationship.
In the second, many years after, her mother is presumably dead and Selene is with her son Helios, named after her deceased brother. When the car hits the lake, Helios drowns (Helios abandoned) because Selene can't reach him, due to the red-eyed, tentacled creature. Selene becoming a deep space explorer is a literal escape from Earth (in a ship named after her dead son and brother) and her painful memories there. One of the logs pretty much says as much.

That the almost same thing happens twice proofs to me that , despite all the symbolism and allegories, the gist of the story should be taken literally. It's too much of a coincidence. To me, Selene is being played by a cosmic entity/alien. The Xenoglyphs and Xenoarchives seem to tell the story of a trapped cosmic entity on Atropos who manipulates Selene in freeing it (one of the Xenoarchives shows a non-human hand breaking free from something). Selene is the creator/destroyer. She creates the White Signal to lure her towards Atropos and she is the destroyer of Helios, the ship. But she also creates the car accident (one of the Xenoarchives reads "Apollo Era astronaut watching the inevitable" and as such destroys the lives of her family. Another one reads "That's the Astronaut. High above everything… destroying everything. Stalking me or guiding me… it wants something."

I think the cosmic horror aspect should be taken literally, given how Harry Krueger and Gregoy Louden seem to love the genre based on interviews and HouseCasts and such. And that's the thing with cosmic horror, it fucks with your mind. The whole idea of it is that there are forces active beyond any comprehension and able to drive you mad. I'm more sympathetic to the Reddit theory mentioned above than I am to the "it's all in her head'. There is a lot of that symbolism as well, but that doesn't mean Atropos isn't real in the context of the story. Think Solaris.

There's just so much to work with here. The logs, the Xenoglyphs, the Xenoarchives, the cinematics, thehouse sequences, the envionmental storytelling, the Black Freighter-esque story in a story about Tali Acheron, that mirrors a lot of things in the main story about Selene.

It's tremendous, ambiguous stuff and very unique in gaming. Space Silent Hill.

We need a Paleblood Hunt-esque deep dive for this. :)

 

[JoJo'sDentCo]

The Astra rejection letter isn't Selene's. It's her mother's, who is rejected for her handicap. As Paper Cheese says, there are two crashes. One with Theia, her daughter Selene and her brother Helios (note that Selene and Helios are siblings in Greek mythology). In the first, Theia gets crippled, Helios dies and Selene survives. Her mother blames Selene for preveting her from living out her dream as an astronaut, leading to an abusive relationship.
In the second, many years after, her mother is presumably dead and Selene is with her son Helios, named after her deceased brother. When the car hits the lake, Helios drowns (Helios abandoned) because Selene can't reach him, due to the red-eyed, tentacled creature. Selene becoming a deep space explorer is a literal escape from Earth (in a ship named after her dead son and brother) and her painful memories there. One of the logs pretty much says as much.

That the almost same thing happens twice proofs to me that , despite all the symbolism and allegories, the gist of the story should be taken literally. It's too much of a coincidence. To me, Selene is being played by a cosmic entity, presumably named Xaos, who is mentioned in one of the logs. The Xenoglyphs and Xenoarchives seem to tell the story of a trapped cosmic entity on Atropos who manipulates Selene in freeing it (one of the Xenoarchives shows a non-human hand breaking free from something). Selene is the creator/destroyer. She creates the White Signal to lure her towards Atropos and she is the destroyer of Helios, the ship. But she also creates the car accident (one of the Xenoarchives reads "Apollo Era astronaut watching the inevitable" and as such destroys the lives of her family. Another one reads "That's the Astronaut. High above everything… destroying everything. Stalking me or guiding me… it wants something."

I think the cosmic horror aspect should be taken literally, given how Harry Krueger and Gregoy Louden seem to love the genre based on interviews and HouseCasts and such. And that's the thing with cosmic horror, it fucks with your mind. The whole idea of it is that there are forces active beyond any comprehension and able to drive you mad.

There's just so much to work with here. The logs, the Xenoglyphs, the Xenoarchives, the cinematics, thehouse sequences, the envionmental storytelling, the Black Freighter-esque story in a story about Tali Acheron, that mirrors a lot of things in the main story about Selene.

We need a Paleblood Hunt-esque deep dive for this. :)

Click to shrink...

So do you think the story will continue in a sequel or is this a one off?

 

[Arex]

Could use a spoiler mode interviews with the director / writer for sure lol

 

[Ahti]

The Astra rejection letter isn't Selene's. It's her mother's, who is rejected for her handicap. As Paper Cheese says, there are two crashes. One with Theia, her daughter Selene and her brother Helios (note that Selene and Helios are siblings in Greek mythology). In the first, Theia gets crippled, Helios dies and Selene survives. Her mother blames Selene for preveting her from living out her dream as an astronaut, leading to an abusive relationship.
In the second, many years after, her mother is presumably dead and Selene is with her son Helios, named after her deceased brother. When the car hits the lake, Helios drowns (Helios abandoned) because Selene can't reach him, due to the red-eyed, tentacled creature. Selene becoming a deep space explorer is a literal escape from Earth (in a ship named after her dead son and brother) and her painful memories there. One of the logs pretty much says as much.

Click to shrink...

I´m confused... I thought in one house sequence we watch the news and it`s said that in a car crash the driver/mother died and the child miraculously survived...

 

[Magic Mushroom]

I´m confused... I thought in one house sequence we watch the news and it`s said that in a car crash the driver/mother died and the child miraculously survived...

Click to shrink...

No, it says "The driver, Theia, has suffered major spinal injuries..."

So do you think the story will continue in a sequel or is this a one off?

Click to shrink...

It could. There's stories to be told about Atropos.They could even do Tali Acheron DLC, which would be cool. I don't know what the plans are though. Perhaps a lot of this will depend on the commercial success of the game.

I do hope whatever Housemarque does next is in the sci-fi realm again, because they are so damn good at that.

 

[Miniature Kaiju]

I did a full 180° on the narrative. Helios definitely a thing. Who isn't a thing is Selene. There's only one crash, Theia's, and it kills Helios and maybe cripples Theia, that creates Selene so she can live her dream life as an astronaut.

The bosses are Theia dealing with aspects of her guilt:

Phrike: Horror
Ixion: killing Helios
Nemesis: divine retribution for evil deeds
Hyperion: Helios father
Ophion: primordial cyclic creation

 

[Magic Mushroom]

Selene is definitely real. She and Atropos are the center of the story. Selene is the Astronaut.

 

[Miniature Kaiju]

Selene is definitely real. She and Atropos are the center of the story. Selene is the Astronaut.

Click to shrink...

Or is it?

Think Mulholland Drive.

 

[JoJo'sDentCo]

Or is it?

Think Mulholland Drive.

Click to shrink...

I like the way you think.

 

[Ahti]

No, it says "The driver, Theia, has suffered major spinal injuries..."

Click to shrink...

Damn, I need to rewatch those sequences.

 

[Magic Mushroom]

I think the game goes in so deep on Atrops, the Severed and other things, that it should be taken literally. The Xenoarchives in particular, which include an alien being escaping, tentacles grabbing a bed, Selene ascending as the Astronaut and the Astronaut standing near a broken guard rail all subsribe to a deep connection between everything that goes beyond "it's all in her head".
Atropos/the cosmic entity definitely plays her mind though, a bit like Solaris, and a staple of cosmic horror.

Funny how Sony published two of the greatest cosmic horror works in videogames with Bloodborne and now this.

 

[War95]

I think the game goes in so deep on Atrops, the Severed and other things, that it should be taken literally. The Xenoarchives in particular, which include an alien being escaping, tentacles grabbing a bed, Selene ascending as the Astronaut and the Astronaut standing near a broken guard rail all subsribe to a deep connection between everything that goes beyond "it's all in her head".
Atropos/the cosmic entity definitely plays her mind though, a bit like Solaris, and a staple of cosmic horror.

Funny how Sony published two of the greatest cosmic horror works in videogames with Bloodborne and now this.

Click to shrink...

The house is literally just a bunch of ritualistic rocks so yeah, the whole planet is fucking with her

 

[IOTS]

Selene is real and so is Helios and Theia.

After the last house scene where she gets the car keys, Selene wakes up in a stone chair with two corpses left and right from her also sitting in a stone chair. This represent the family lineage and that Selene is the only one left. Helios dies in the car crash by drowning because Selene abandoned him to save herself.

Do we know how Theia died? Old age?

 

[Severance]

Absolutely loved the game, but felt really frustrated with the story at the end of act 3. I think the story is left too vague and open ended. My theories post act 3 are either it was a dream/purgatory/coma, or Selene is in fact trapped on an alien planet being manipulated by an entity. Personally I hate the idea of it being a dream, self-punishment or mental illness induced.

There's one aspect of the story that tells me Selene is not on alien planet. The story is very much grounded in modern times. All of Selene's memories/ideas are based in the time period of 1960-2010 at the latest. The house and technology within it are pre-2010. Selene's mother wanting to be an astronaut, with the astronaut suit being the one that NASA used to land on the moon. The scenes on the tv in the house depicting a moon landing from the 60s/70s. The model of the car is 1990s or earlier. A record player is used to play "Dont Fear the Reaper." A human traveling outside of our solar system is something that won't happen for thousands of years. In light of all that, the events of the game must be imagined in Selene's mind on earth.

 

[Magic Mushroom]

Selene is real and so is Helios and Theia.

After the last house scene where she gets the car keys, Selene wakes up in a stone chair with two corpses left and right from her also sitting in a stone chair. This represent the family lineage and that Selene is the only one left. Helios dies in the car crash by drowning because Selene abandoned him to save herself.

Do we know how Theia died? Old age?

Click to shrink...

I think the game is ambiguous about Theia's death (and many other things haha).But I haven't found anything that sheds a light on her death.

 

[War95]

I think Selene left her mother to die or caused her death after she became cripple, that last wheel chair interaction painted as such

 

[GazRB]

I don't think Helios is the son because a voice actor and mocap actor is in the credits for Helios, and the only other character is the daughter.

 

[Vini]

I literally can't stop playing or thinking about this game!

 

[GazRB]

Absolutely loved the game, but felt really frustrated with the story at the end of act 3. I think the story is left too vague and open ended. My theories post act 3 are either it was a dream/purgatory/coma, or Selene is in fact trapped on an alien planet being manipulated by an entity. Personally I hate the idea of it being a dream, self-punishment or mental illness induced.

There's one glaring hole in the story that tells me Selene is not on alien planet. The story is very much grounded in modern times. The house and technology within it are pre-2010. Selene's mother wanting to be an astronaut, with the astronaut suit being the one that NASA used to land on the moon. Not to mention scenes in the house depicting a moon landing from the 60s/70s. The model of the car is 1990s or earlier. A record player is used to play "Dont Fear the Reaper" in the house. A human traveling outside of our solar system is something that won't happen for thousands of years. In light of all that, the events of the game must be imagined in Selene's mind on earth.

Click to shrink...

yeah I also honestly wish they would have just kept it sci-fi. It's really annoying to think that all the lore or Astra, the Severed, etc, and atmosphere built up on the planet is just Selene's delusions.

Like it's certainly fine to delve into issues of mental health and all that but there is a reason "IT WAS ALL JUST A DREAM" is such a boring trope. It invalidates all the other work put in to the rest of the story. Figuring out how to tie up the alien story in a more satisfying way was also the more challenging aspect.
I did really love the end of act 1 where she lives her whole life and then ends up back on the planet. Everything story wise from there was downhill unfortunately.
Game still rocks.