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JCG

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,543
Lula's Brazil was also held up as a model during the commodity boom. The left certainly has a problem picking winners.

And yet the economic situation of Brazil was still much better than what has happened in Venezuela. Corruption was also a big problem, as seen in many other Latin American countries, but not nearly as much general incompetence and malice. Which didn't stop people from getting tired of it and voting in a quasi-fascist to lead Brazil, that's quite sad, but even elections appear to have little or no value in the current Venezuela.
 

Rotkehle

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
3,340
Hamm, Germany
That is literally what Venezuela is, a social democracy. Maybe the lesson here is that context matters, instead of superficially discussing terms, one might look into the actual situation.
This subject is a minefield tho and this will be all I share.
It is only a minefield for U.S. Citizens who are not able to understand what social democracy means. Venezuela is not what the rest of the planet understands under a social democrazy. Just look at Germany, the Scandinavian countries, France etc.
 

Dekuman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,028
It is only a minefield for U.S. Citizens who are not able to understand what social democracy means. Venezuela is not what the rest of the planet understands under a social democrazy. Just look at Germany, the Scandinavian countries, France etc.
You are describing a welfare state which the US is part of considering over 50% of its budget is spent on social programs.

You can argue about the relative generosity of the US model vs the Scandinavian on the other extreme or the Canadian one somewhere in between. They are all welfare states. The free market is taxed to redistribute wealth to everyone in the form of universal public services like schools or health and wealth transfers especially for the less fortunate

In the case of Venezula there is no wealth to tax because the economy is largely reliant on a single source of income. People sometimes call those economies Petro states. Socialism in that context does not compare to the welfare state model.
 
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criesofthepast

Crash Test Dummy
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,056
Bro! How you been? I tried contacting you on the old country but you never replied my pm.

I hope everything is well on your end. Canada never answered my immigration application. I'm almost set document wise to go to Chile!
Hey man! You have my phone number right? Its been a while! Ill PM you my number if you don't have it so we can keep better contact through whatsapp!
 

Daitokuji

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,602
If the US wants to try more socialistic policies, they need to rebrand it using another term. "Green New Deal" or something along those lines. Even "Democratic Socialist" is still S O C I A L I S M
 

Mugy

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,424
You should try to flee to Brazil. As you have good skills you'll find a job here and live well until this nightmare situation in Venezuela ends . It is much cheaper and easier to reach than Chile.
Im scare as hell, since i don't know anybody there. Im actually scare of leaving without money. But im more scare to stay here.

Its like a cycle. It sucks, believe me. You can feel how this country its slowly taking away your life, i swear it to god
 

Brood

Member
Nov 8, 2018
822
In the case of Venezula there is no wealth to tax because the economy is largely reliant on a single source of income. People sometimes call those economies Petro states. Socialism in that context does not compare to the welfare state model.
I think CGP Grey explained it better in his video the Rule for Rulers:



It's a pretty lengthy video but it explains how dictatorships like Venezuela work.
 
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Bregor

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,478
In the case of Venezula there is no wealth to tax because the economy is largely reliant on a single source of income. People sometimes call those economies Petro states. Socialism in that context does not compare to the welfare state model.

It is worth noting that the oil price slump did not destroy the economy of all such oil dependent states. Though it damaged them, many others weathered the storm due to their foresight and preparation for exactly such an event. Venezuela did not because it took on the burden of massive social and political programs during the boom that they could not sustain in a non-boom environment, squandered their sovereign wealth fund, and allowed their oil infrastructure to decay such that it became impossible to increase production when they would have needed it.

So the oil price slump may have pushed Venezuela over the edge, but the root cause of the collapse was the waste of money they would need for the future in a period they should have been saving. It was arrogance and incompetence that created the problem.
 

RavFiveFour

Banned
Dec 3, 2018
1,721
And why is this region of the world like this? Not great relationships between their leaders and the people. Sometimes you dislike the leader, but if you look closely there's tension between the two.
 

Quixzlizx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,591
It is only a minefield for U.S. Citizens who are not able to understand what social democracy means. Venezuela is not what the rest of the planet understands under a social democrazy. Just look at Germany, the Scandinavian countries, France etc.
The poster you're quoting is from Europe.
 

carlosrso

Member
Oct 27, 2017
828
Ipatinga, Brazil
Im scare as hell, since i don't know anybody there. Im actually scare of leaving without money. But im more scare to stay here.

Its like a cycle. It sucks, believe me. You can feel how this country its slowly taking away your life, i swear it to god
Hi Mugy. There are some organizations here helping fleeing Venezuelans . So the first thing is reaching Pacaraima and getting your documents there. After this you can go to other state (the government is doing this transfer to help the Roraima state). You can teach french until your law course is validated here (here is the link explaining the process: https://odireitosemfronteiras.com/2013/03/07/processo-de-revalidacao-de-diplomas-no-brasil/ ).
Try to go to a city with a french company installed, so it will be easier for you to find clients. I recommend you to go to Curitiba (Renault) or Timoteo (Aperam).
Be safe and try to take the best decision.
 

sleepnaught

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,538
Jesus, that sounds horrible. I hate hearing our fellow ERA folks trapped in what is basically a failed state. I hope you guys find a way to make it to the US(if you want). We suck too, but not as much right now. Hope Venezuelans find a way to kick this shithead to the curb real soon.