it's all relative, there are some wondering the same about how people can like TLJ.
ROTS vs TLJ
- Thread starter Halbrand
- Start date
it's all relative, there are some wondering the same about how people can like TLJ.
TLJ
TBH I've always found Revenge of the Sith supremely overrated, even before any of the sequel trilogy came out. It's a version of Attack of the Clones where stuff actually happens in the plot (though I will concede this is a large point in its favor, it's the only one of the prequel films to deliver on the promise of seeing Anakin's downfall, even if it half-asses it). Wooden dialogue and acting, lame romance drama, pointless whizbang CGI all over the place.
Prequel memes scraped some ironic humor out of its worst moments, but that doesn't mean they aren't terrible.
TBH I've always found Revenge of the Sith supremely overrated, even before any of the sequel trilogy came out. It's a version of Attack of the Clones where stuff actually happens in the plot (though I will concede this is a large point in its favor, it's the only one of the prequel films to deliver on the promise of seeing Anakin's downfall, even if it half-asses it). Wooden dialogue and acting, lame romance drama, pointless whizbang CGI all over the place.
Prequel memes scraped some ironic humor out of its worst moments, but that doesn't mean they aren't terrible.
I just flat out disagree. It's a perfect blend of modernization and keeping the character looking like it fits continuity wise. Baby Yoda also looks like a puppet, but it's FAR more charming because of this.
This is what I remembered but when I rewatched it it's pretty gradual actually.
He starts off as a renowned Jedi but he is easily influenced by Palpatine on his rescue mission so he kills Dooku despite knowing that was wrong, then he starts having visions of Padme dying so he starts doubting everything. Then the council asks him to spy on Palpatine by agreeing to put him on the council but not grant him the rank of master and he's like "yo wtf?", then Palpatine gives him some food for thought about the dark side and manipulating life feeding his fear of losing Padme. Then Palpatine reveals himself to be the sith lord and Anakin is like "alright imma tell the Jedi, win their trust and get him arrested" but Mace Windu slights Anakin AGAIN leading Anakin to believe that the Jedi just don't value him, Anakin starts realizing he might lose Padme if Palpatine dies or gets locked away before he can learn the power to keep people from dying so he storms off to go make sure Palpatine gets arrested and stands trial. Anakin sees Palpatine faking a position of weakness, Mace Windu is about to strike Palpatine down but Anakin stops him which results in Windu dying.
Following that Anakin surrenders himself to the dark side believing that following Palpatine is the only way to save Padme and the republic.
we literally had the "WHAT I HAVE DONE?! to killing kids in less than 20 minutes" thread a week ago.
he had struggles, but to say the change was "gradual" is bullshit
yeh, it looks far better on paper than the execution on screen.
Sure The Last Jedi has better writing but the story it's telling just isn't as good. The cast may be better, for the most part anyway, but outside of Rey and Ben was anyone even given anything to work with?
Revenge of the Sith's story is simply better, even if it's not executed as well. The scale is just larger, the stakes much greater, the villains more entertaining. It's not really fair to compare The Last Jedi, a movie where very little actually happens, to Revenge of the Sith, where the Republic falls, the Jedi are wiped out and the bad guys win.
The scene where Anakin is sealed inside the Vader suit is beautiful and haunting. There isn't a single scene in The Last Jedi that comes close.
I thought 50% of TLJ was OK to pretty good, and the other half was bad. Still a much better - and more competently made - movie than any of the prequels.
Just because there's a sequence of events doesn't make it well written or directed. Anakin is CLEARLY remorseful for what he did to Windu. Then he shows zero remorse murdering children and nearly choking his pregnant wife to death 20-30 minutes later.
You could write out the general sequence of events of the entire prequel trilogy and it would make a decent, compelling story (after all the trade federation bullshit is excised). The problem is Lucas is a terrible director.
That scene is one of the best scenes in the entire saga it you ask me, and along with the beginning battle scene and VFX, the only saving graces of TLJ.
I did vote TLJ for those reasons but it's close.
no man, it cant be when for less than a second kylo thrusts his lightsaber into nothing!
I didn't notice that. I don't slow movies down and break down the choreography frame by frame. I like the light saber fights in the PS too.
Does that make me a bad person?
I won't disagree with you on these points, the directing and over all execution of the prequels is an absolute disaster. But the general outline for each movie is kinda functional.
RotS's story is better on paper, in execution it's an utter shambles.
RotS does some things better in concept, but all aspects of execution fall short in comparison.
1) he's literally crying after the younglings thing
2) he thinks padme brought obiwan to kill him (the jedi in the temple all tried to kill him so he's on edge)
The film is hurt by having cut the Jedi temple sequence, and having ambiguous ellipses. It's not 20 minutes in universe obviously.
You still have a big chunk of it in the adaptation of the film though because he cut it very late. It genuinely bothers me because it was the best part. At least we got it in those medias. :/
I mean I guess in the same way you can make anything qualitatively relative?
I mean, you are correct that MORE happens but my issue is with how it's told. Like I have a hard time getting into when all of the acting is so unremarkable at best and straight up bad performances at worst (not the fault of any of the actors). I guess for me I could never get into the story as the individual parts never clicked in especially Hayden's performance which weighed the whole thing down and prevented me from buying to him being THE Darth Vader from the OT.
Like the order 66 scene didn't really do anything for me since I didn't really know any of the characters, its just a bunch of randos (maybe if I read more EU novels I'd care??) getting murders by PS2 CGI troopers.
I will say that the Clone Wars tv show actually makes me somewhat buy into Anakin as a character, if only Filoni could redo the entire PT in clone wars styling (with the same VO crew)
You're just lucky he thrusts it into nothing for one second while Anakin and Obiwan flip sabers into the void for two seconds !!
Not sire how people struggle with this one given how Kylo is explicitly shown to be a wild and rage filled fighter.
TLJ only "killed hype" for a tiny corner of the internet who like to make a very loud noise.
RotS is a shit movie, I tolerate it due to being the horrible end of a terrible era, something that made me less a fan of Star Wars.
TLJ is the only Star Wars movie that has truly surprised me, I love it.
I honestly how can someone prefer to watch RotS over TLJ unless is just for the "lols"
TLJ is the only Star Wars movie that has truly surprised me, I love it.
I honestly how can someone prefer to watch RotS over TLJ unless is just for the "lols"
I'd rather you try to do something ambitious and fail than do something safe and succeed.
I can appreciate what Lucas was trying to do, even if he was clearly totally out of his depth and incapable of telling the story he wanted to tell as well as it should have been.
Even so, it helps a lot that Revenge of the Sith still comes together. It's still fun to watch and Palpatine is an amazing villain. Seeing Anakin walk into the Jedi Temple with an army of clones behind him to kill everyone inside may not make much sense where they wrote it, but damn if it isn't an excellent shot and a really sad one.
I just like it a hell of a lot more than I do The Last Jedi, which honestly has such bad villains that they're bringing Palpatine back in some capacity for the sequel instead.
English is not my native language but i'm pretty sure that a film killing hype for a saga can be a thing, like covenant for alien or the last terminator for terminator saga...so what's your point exactly?
I know it's not a person,it was a figurative speech (i don't know if this is the correct word lol)
All of this is fine in concept, but when the film fumbles it as hard as the PT did in general... it ends up the way it does. Just because it tried doesn't score it enough points when discussing which is a better film to make any kind of difference.
TLJ might not bring as many new ideas to the table, but it executes much more of its attempts well than anything in the PT.
Yeah tell that to yourself if it make you feel better.
It's always a vocal minority when things are not how we like...
TLJ had the worst after market to Domestic take ratio of any Disney SW films with the worst post December performance ratio of any Disney SW film. It's clear that repeats and enthusiasm wasn't up to the previous films. Most of those repeats went to Jumanji. Something went wrong when Rogue One, a film that opened far below TLJ with a far smaller overall take, started outgrossing it in dailies.
THats not to say that it was reviled (it wasn't).
And so what? Have you asked any people who saw the film in the entire planet?
Do you know that people has to watch the movie at least one time to form a positive or negative opinion??
They already had my money even if i don't liked the film...
Not saying that nobody liked the film of course but why open a topic with a poll like this if people can't speak freely?
Edit: sorry i was thinking about tlj lol.
LOL
TLJ was critically well received and did 1.3 billion dollars in the box office. You're here comparing it to Alien Covenant and Terminator Dark Fate? Listen to yourself dude.
Rise of the Skywalker is still going to be a massive hit in theaters, even if it somehow ruined some internet super fan's entitled view of Star Wars.
If the shit ass prequels didn't kill Star Wars, the incredibly successful TLJ certainty won't.
It won't make 2 billon. I'll make an avatar or ban bet with you over that.
Yeh, this is true, but it's still a minority corner of the internet making a noise about how bad it is or "killed enthusiasm".
Ditto.
It is known.
As someone who loves both TFA and TLJ, you don't want to make that bet.
TROS isn't going to make $2b.
I don't give a fuck about how much money the film did, because guess what, money don't always mean something... i was talking for myself before the "good taste police" came in defense of the film.
Gtfo with this shit or just don't partecipate on a discussion when people can have different opinions if you have to act like this...
Are you gonna say the same thing to any people who liked rots more than tlj?? Well you have another 260 people to talk jist in this topic buddy, don't waste time with me, i'm not gonna change my mind jist because the film make 5 billions dollar...
well yeah, TFA barely cracked the 2billion mark.
i was just being hyperbolic like the other side
LOL
Yeah no argiement there. We're going to see ROTS potentially not outgross TLJ however. This will be down mainly to the INT markets but I have a feeling that is more on turning off SW as a whole than TLJ being some sudden about face that 'ruined starwars' for people outside NA. Not that TLJ didn't have a big negative impact on the SW brand in some INT markets (China being the most obvious but not only example of the film opening strongly and then just collapsing).
Comparing The Last Jedi to being as bad and damaging to a franchise as Alien Covenant is absurd.
You seem upset.
Has anyone choosing RotS actually watched it recently? I feel like coming off Attack of the Clones anything seemed pretty good, but it really does not stand up on repeated viewings. You may not like everything in the ST but at the very least they're both fun and watchable films.