decoyplatypus

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Oct 25, 2017
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Fe5box.jpg


After finishing all routes in Three Houses, I was in the mood for a more focused Fire Emblem experience, so I decided to replay Thracia 776. For those who don't know, Thracia 776 was the fifth Fire Emblem and the last produced by series creator Shouzou Kaga. It has never been officially released outside of Japan. The first complete, high-quality fan translation into English actually came out earlier this year (thanks to all the folks who worked on Project Exile).

Thracia 776 is something of a cult favorite due to its diverse map designs and surplus of interesting mechanics (some of which have become series fixtures; others remain unique to Thracia). What I'd like to do in this thread is talk about some of what makes Thracia cool.

I. The Story

Thracia takes place during the events of Fire Emblem: Genealogy of the Holy War. Fans sometimes refer to FE4 and 5 as the "Jugdral" games (after the setting they share) and call Thracia a "midquel" to Genealogy. Keeping this spoiler-free, Genealogy has your classic FE continent-wide struggle for power (although it's more than that, and if you haven't already played it, you should). It plays out on a grand scale, reflected in the game's maps that are substantially larger than ordinary FE maps. Thracia zooms in and expands on one corner of that struggle.

Here's Genealogy's map covering the "North Thracia" region:
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And here's a Thracia map:
map01.gif

(You can actually see this village on the east side of the Genealogy map)

Thracia's opening cutscene illustrates one infamous part of Genealogy's story. The later chapters overlap with and retell battles you actually play in Genealogy. Seeing those events at ground-level adds texture and detail to Genealogy's world and enriches what would otherwise be a pretty conventional liberation-war narrative.

II. The Mechanics

Okay, here's where Thracia really shines. It's almost Super Mario Bros. 3-like in the number of new ideas it introduces.

Rescue: This is the first appearance of the mechanic many of you know from FE6-10 . A unit with higher constitution can use its turn to pick up a smaller unit. The rescued unit is safe from damage at the cost of a turn. The rescuing unit suffers reduced stats. I love this feature. It encourages somewhat more aggressive play (as you don't have to turtle crawl to ensure you have a full block around fragile characters), rewards smart positioning, and allows new map types where you might need to "ferry" non-flying units across impassable terrain.

Capture: Unique to Thracia, this is the offensive version of rescuing. By selecting the "capture" command, the player unit attacks (at lower stats), and if it reduces the enemy's HP to zero, the unit picks up the enemy. The player can then transfer items from the enemy to the capturing unit. When the enemy is "released" it instantly leaves the field as though it had been killed. Capturing is essential in Thracia because you start out with basically no money and no other way to obtain replacement or surplus weapons. It's also the best way to get some extremely powerful items. What I like about it is that it (a) introduces a neat risk/reward calculation and (b) dramatizes a story element (you start out as a tiny militia with no resources or stable supplies) in the gameplay mechanics.

Dismount: Introduced in FE3 but refined in Thracia, cavalry and flying units can dismount. The difference between Thracia's version of dismounting and Three Houses's recent cost-free version is that in Thracia, mounted units (a) must dismount in indoor maps and (b) suffer stat/weapon selection penalties while dismounted. So Thracia is one of the few games in the series to do much of anything to push back on mounted unit dominance. (Don't worry: they're still great in Thracia).

Fog of War: Introduced in Thracia and familiar from basically every FE since. I don't have a lot to say about fog of war.
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(Screenshot of Chapter 24x deploy screen)

Fatigue: This one's controversial. In Thracia, as your units take actions, they build up a stat called "fatigue." When a unit's fatigue exceeds its HP, that unit is "fatigued" and cannot be deployed in the next battle. Sitting out one battle resets fatigue to zero. You can also deploy a fatigued unit (and reset its fatigue) by using an item called a stamina drink. I think I'm in the minority here, but I kind of like fatigue. It adds something to the strategy layer. It encourages the player to rotate units (which is not especially punishing, because Thracia has low stat caps, so no one's missing much by sitting out a fight now and then). And it can be overridden in emergencies. The main weakness, from my point of view, is that it doesn't sit well with the need to use particular units for recruiting. A first-time player has no way of knowing what's coming in the next battle, so he or she can't make a fully-informed decision about when to push a unit into fatigue. That's perfectly fine -- good, even -- if the consequences are that you may not have your best flier for a mountainous map, because that's the sort of risk a new player can evaluate beforehand. But sitting at a deploy screen for Map A, it would be silly for a first-time player to bench Karin the pegasus knight on the off chance she's needed for a recruitment in Map B. In theory there are stamina drinks for that, but they're limited, and most players will reserve them for "oh shit this fight is too scary without Y" situations. Still, I'd like to see this mechanic brought back at some point.

Movement stars: Unique to Thracia, some units have "movement stars" that give them a % chance, after finishing a turn, to move and act again. I don't really see the virtue of this mechanic. It mostly works in the player's favor, in that the player will have many units with movement stars, but there are relatively few enemies that have them or will proc them before being killed. But the wrong enemy getting a whole extra turn and blowing up the player's careful plans is a lot of variance for a game with permadeath.

III. Story and Gameplay Integration

I mentioned this in connection with the "capture" mechanic, but one of the neat things about Thracia is the way it works to integrate story and gameplay. Playing as a village militia on the run means you don't Thave money or supplies or any kind of "base camp" menu (initially), and you need to capture enemies to keep yourself armed. When the story tells you a particular enemy is a genius tactician, it weaves that into the gameplay by having his appearance buff every enemy on the map. And when it says that units left behind on "escape" maps are going to be captured well, Thracia takes care to pay off that story idea in gameplay terms too.

IV. What I'd Like to See In a Thracia Remake

There's a lot of speculation that Genealogy of the Holy War is due for a remake and that this could, down the road, set up a Thracia remake. It if ever happens, here's what I would like to see:

  • Quality-of-life enhancements: The most straightforward improvement would be to import modern FE QoL features like locking in different enemies' attack ranges and allowing the player to re-arrange units' starting positions.
  • Fatigue options: As I said, I like the fatigue mechanic. I think in a future FE it could be adapted into a kind of "injury" system where a unit that takes sufficient non-fatal damage would have to sit out a chapter. But for a Thracia remake, I wonder if IS could address the recruitment problem I described above by allowing the player to force-deploy a fatigued unit, without a stamina drink, at a severe stat penalty (e.g., all stats halved, including movement, and no XP gain during mission). The unit's fatigue would not reset, so it would still need to sit out a mission in order to recover its stats.
  • Battle saves: Thracia can be an evil game. Some of the bosses are very, very scary and will kill your best units despite your best preparation. I don't know if I'd want the full turnwheel from SoV/TH, but a remake could definitely use some, limited means of saving in-mission progress.
  • Warning on item usage: Items are super important in Thracia. Utility items like staves are the player's best tool for reducing difficulty, and Thracia gives several units very powerful weapons early in the game. I suspect it would come as a surprise to some players that Thracia does not have a blacksmith for repairs. The only way to extend the life of these items is a "Hammerne" staff limited to five uses over the course of the game. This works out okay, I think. Most players are cautious with limited-use items and will use a unit's weaker weapon if it means preserving the heavy-hitter for later. But I feel for the person who burns through Finn's Brave lance in the first ten chapters. I think a remake could probably put a line of dialogue early on warning the player that there's not going to be a general repair shop.
  • Fix Xavier recruitment: It's a pain. It can still be a pain in a remake. But please, not this kind of pain.
V. Soundtrack Sample




VI. Conclusion/tldr

Thracia 776 is awesome. Please discuss.
 
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Feb 12, 2019
1,429
How about those Manster chapters, am I right?

Thracia is definitely a top-3 Fire Emblem for me, even though it's sadistic and borderline-bullshit at times. That is 100% part of its charm, especially with all of the broken nonsense you can do (i.e. warp abuse, characters with Wrath, status staves in general) but I cannot imagine for the life of me trying to get through that game without at least skimming a guide. I'd, uh, be very interested in seeing what Nintendo would do if they decided to remake it
 

ggdeku

Member
Oct 26, 2017
758
I also played it just before 3H released. The new fan translation is fantastic.

776 may be my favorite FE game. It is everything I like about Fire Emblem wrapped in one package. The level of mechanics is at the perfect spot for me. I've never really liked how much FE has leaned into the RPG stuff in the later games with min-maxing, class changing, and collecting all sorts of different skills. 776 feels like a slightly more complex than the GBA games due to the addition of skills, but the skills aren't too crazy and there really aren't that many of them. Rescue take-drop, trading, dismounting and capturing allow so much flexibility in your strategy. Capturing is pretty much the only way to reliably get more equipment. Because the price of weapons in the shop is so high, your number one option to get more equipment is to capture. This made the weapon durability a lot more impactful than you usually find in FE. I did fall into the classic RPG trap of never using my Hammerne because I was too scared I would need it for some warp staves in a future chapter. Turns out I had enough to make it through without one repair.

The map design is absolutely phenomenal. I loved how the narrative played into the map design and progression, especially during the Manster escape. There was always an interesting main objective to overcome alongside several challenging side objectives enticing you to extend your strategy past what you may be comfortable with. A far cry from what we got in 3H.

I was scared by the fatigue mechanic at first, but I really enjoyed how it pushes you to expand your pool of active units. I think FE usually falls into the trap of having 700 playable characters, but once you settle on a core group of 7 or 8 that's it. Thracia encouraging you to bench your most active units is a really neat twist on that. I also really liked how powerful staves were throughout the game. Safy, Nanna, and Sleuf were lifesavers for me.
 

nanskee

Prophet of Truth
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Oct 31, 2017
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there's a translation for this game? this game looked really entertaining when I was watching Daigo play it. Love these old-school fire emblem games; the serious nature, the urgency and the challenge
 

Tfritz

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Oct 25, 2017
13,623
Thracia introduced Fog of War and liked the concept so much that basically every paralogue uses it.

I know a lot of hardcore fans say that Thracia is one of their favorites, but I find it to be pretty tedious and at times seems to expect a certain level of clairvoyance on the player's part, whether it be knowing where enemy reinforcements pop up, or knowing which characters they'll need for the next chapter, or knowing what they need to do in one chapter to recruit a character in the next.

there's a translation for this game? this game looked really entertaining when I was watching Daigo play it. Love these old-school fire emblem games; the serious nature, the urgency and the challenge

There was very recently a full, working translation released.
 
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decoyplatypus

decoyplatypus

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Oct 25, 2017
2,633
Brooklyn
How about those Manster chapters, am I right?

Thracia is definitely a top-3 Fire Emblem for me, even though it's sadistic and borderline-bullshit at times. That is 100% part of its charm, especially with all of the broken nonsense you can do (i.e. warp abuse, characters with Wrath, status staves in general) but I cannot imagine for the life of me trying to get through that game without at least skimming a guide. I'd, uh, be very interested in seeing what Nintendo would do if they decided to remake it

Yep, the Manster chapters are both a little cruel and (as ggdeku points out) another good example of narrative and gameplay integration. There have been other FEs with prison chapters, but normally the majority of your units start outside the cells and with all their weapons and items.

The level of mechanics is at the perfect spot for me. I've never really liked how much FE has leaned into the RPG stuff in the later games with min-maxing, class changing, and collecting all sorts of different skills. 776 feels like a slightly more complex than the GBA games due to the addition of skills, but the skills aren't too crazy and there really aren't that many of them. Rescue take-drop, trading, dismounting and capturing allow so much flexibility in your strategy.

I strongly agree with this.

I was scared by the fatigue mechanic at first, but I really enjoyed how it pushes you to expand your pool of active units. I think FE usually falls into the trap of having 700 playable characters, but once you settle on a core group of 7 or 8 that's it. Thracia encouraging you to bench your most active units is a really neat twist on that. I also really liked how powerful staves were throughout the game. Safy, Nanna, and Sleuf were lifesavers for me.

Yeah, Thracia's staves reminds me a bit of mages in BG2, where they're SO imbalanced that when you see enemies with status staves, they're immediately the focus of the fight. I do wish Thracia did a little more to make it viable to rush enemy staff-users with physical units rather than silence/sleeping them (or warp/rescuing around them). It would be fun if you had to make a decision between (a) a risky, all-out rush on a caster (who might be behind enemy lines or off in some corner far away from the primary and secondary objectives), (b) using a staff yourself, (c) using holy waters or (d) just eating the status effect and restoring if necessary. Instead, it's mostly just (b) or (d) in my experience.
 

Deleted member 11413

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Thracia basically established the mechanics that would be perfected in the GBA games. Imo, it's a massive improvement over Geneology's unwieldy map designs. Thracia is also incredibly difficult for first time players, but it crafts some great set pieces and scenarios for the player to manage. Great game, easily Kaga's best imo.
 
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decoyplatypus

decoyplatypus

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there's a translation for this game? this game looked really entertaining when I was watching Daigo play it. Love these old-school fire emblem games; the serious nature, the urgency and the challenge

Yep! A complete English translation came out this year. It's really good! Before the only option was a partial translation with garbled menus and questionable quality as it went along.

Thracia introduced Fog of War and liked the concept so much that basically every paralogue uses it.

I know a lot of hardcore fans say that Thracia is one of their favorites, but I find it to be pretty tedious and at times seems to expect a certain level of clairvoyance on the player's part, whether it be knowing where enemy reinforcements pop up, or knowing which characters they'll need for the next chapter, or knowing what they need to do in one chapter to recruit a character in the next.

I think these are both fair points. Thracia overdoes it on fog of war. And probably too much of the challenge comes from surprises for first-time players. One other thing I would like a remake to do is to give even clearer and more advanced warning about recruiting conditions. The new translation seems to give clear notice within chapters (although even there, I probably grasp the warning more quickly because I already know what's coming), but a remake could do better.
 

ggdeku

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Oct 26, 2017
758
Also enemy dancers. Thats pretty dang unique for the series. I don't think any other FE has them.
 

HK-47

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Oct 25, 2017
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Fatigue is great at making you use more units. It's similar to what XCOM Long War and War of the Chosen try to do
 
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decoyplatypus

decoyplatypus

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Fatigue is great at making you use more units. It's similar to what XCOM Long War and War of the Chosen try to do

Agreed. I also think those are good games for IS to look at as it tries to add a few (light) strategy-layer elements and expand character building without becoming too fussy and sluggish compared to the classic FEs.
 

P-Bo

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Jun 17, 2019
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Fans of T776, would you be opposed to having a supposed remake included with the Genealogy remake (ala Leif mode or DLC), or must it be it's own separate release?
 

BassForever

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Oct 25, 2017
30,201
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Only FE game I gave up on, fuck the stupid stamina system and those awful fog of war maps. Who loves maze levels with no clear indication of where to go and reinforcements that literally spawn out nowhere, move instantly, and kill your characters. Game desperately needs the modern FE rewind feature and I have to think people who enjoyed this game played on emulator and abused the hell out of save states.
 

Arkanim94

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Oct 27, 2017
14,378
I do wonder what happened during devolopment, the game is clearly undercooked compared to the previous FE on SNES.

Fans of T776, would you be opposed to having a supposed remake included with the Genealogy remake (ala Leif mode or DLC), or must it be it's own separate release?

the games are completely different mechanics wise, it's not like the elibe game where a unified remake would be possible.
 
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decoyplatypus

decoyplatypus

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Oct 25, 2017
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Fans of T776, would you be opposed to having a supposed remake included with the Genealogy remake (ala Leif mode or DLC), or must it be it's own separate release?

I would be delighted with a Jugdral Saga "box set" including both Genealogy and Thracia remakes. It's just that as a practical matter, I don't see Nintendo remaking the two at the same time, because they have such different scales and game systems. It's not like you remake Genealogy and you have all the art assets you need to release a "Thracia 776" expansion a year later.
 

DaciaJC

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Oct 29, 2017
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Does this game have any connection to historical Thracia or is the name entirely coincidental?
 

Man God

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Oct 25, 2017
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I think in many ways it is less BS than FE 6. Or maybe I just like its brand of BS better.
 

Man God

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Oct 25, 2017
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They are completely different games. 3 to 4, 4 to 5, and 5 to 6 is the most radical period of change in the series, a series that includes a dramatically different sequel with Fire Emblem Gaiden!
 
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decoyplatypus

decoyplatypus

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I haven't played Thracia, they both looked identical to me on the surface--then again it's been awhile since I examined them both.

The first visible distinction between the two is the map scale, as I described at the top. Genealogy has those gigantic maps (and only 12 chapters total, as a result). Thracia's maps are about the same as what you see in the GBA games. One consequence of this difference in scale is that FE4 does not have interior maps or detailed city maps. So the remakes would have different visual needs.

But beyond the scale issues, the mechanics are quite different. FE4 does not have rescue or fatigue or capture or fog of war. It has like one unit that can dismount, but even that doesn't work the same as it does in FE5. The under-the-hood attack resolution calculations also work differently.

I think it would be great if at some point Nintendo could offer a box set with remakes of both games, but I don't think those remakes can be made at the same time (or close together) without enlisting two different developers.
 

Tochtli79

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Jun 27, 2019
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This is the FE game I'm least familiar with, having only seen a playthrough once on YouTube. A midquel is such an interesting concept and I remember liking Leif as a main character quite a bit. The game is really pretty graphics wise and seems to offer a good challenge, but I do wonder how I'd fare with all those unique mechanics. As for a remake, I think it should be done as a separate game instead of one big Jugdral remake. I expect Reinhardt to get a bigger role when that happens thanks to Heroes making him famous. Personally I'm hoping it and FE4 are added to the Super Famicom Online lineup soon so I can play them on Switch, even in Japanese. #playthracia776
 
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decoyplatypus

decoyplatypus

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Oct 25, 2017
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This is the FE game I'm least familiar with, having only seen a playthrough once on YouTube. A midquel is such an interesting concept and I remember liking Leif as a main character quite a bit. The game is really pretty graphics wise and seems to offer a good challenge, but I do wonder how I'd fare with all those unique mechanics.

I wouldn't be scared off. Capture and fatigue are the main ones that influence the player's decisions, and they're both pretty straightforward. Capture a lot early on to build up item reserves, and then by the middle of the game you only really do it when the enemy has a specific item you want (usually a staff, a scroll, or a tome). As for fatigue, Thracia gives you a TON of units, and differences in stats tend to be pretty minor (every stat caps at 20), so rotating is rarely painful.

I expect Reinhardt to get a bigger role when that happens thanks to Heroes making him famous. Personally I'm hoping it and FE4 are added to the Super Famicom Online lineup soon so I can play them on Switch, even in Japanese. #playthracia776

What's the deal with this? I don't play Heroes.
 
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Man God

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Oct 25, 2017
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Reinhardt was one of the first truly broken units in FEH and thus became popular. Known for his trademark line "Magic is Everything" which was quickly memed to hell and back. There's also a sword version and most recently a dancer version, and yes the dance version does say "Dancing is Everything".
 
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decoyplatypus

decoyplatypus

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Oct 25, 2017
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Reinhardt was one of the first truly broken units in FEH and thus became popular. Known for his trademark line "Magic is Everything" which was quickly memed to hell and back. There's also a sword version and most recently a dancer version, and yes the dance version does say "Dancing is Everything".

Got it. Well, if it brings more players to Thracia, I'm all for it.